You Only Believe the Official 9/11 Story Because You Don't Know the Official 9/11 Story

[tyron]

Haha so are you suggesting that in order for a tower to collapse the steel needs to be fully melted? Ever consider the fact that steel, or really any material for that matter, does not need to melt in order for it to lose much of it's strength and structural integrity? Ask any firefighter or anyone that has seen a building with steel pillars post-collapse from a fire: You will see plenty of bent and twisted up steel, you will almost never see steel that has been melted. Case in point: the roughly 1100 degrees (rough estimate since jet fuel burns anywhere from 800 degrees to 1500 degrees) would be more than enough to weaken steel enough to collapse massive buildings like the WTC towers.

Before you laugh, perhaps you will be kind enough to reread my post. I never said that all the steel pillars needed to melt before a building collapses. I was referring to the debunking article produced by Bob that claimed the fire caused by wood, paper, rugs and curtains melted steel to the point of liquidity. I was responding to the impossibility of such a fire melting steel to a liquidty.

[NonLinear]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

fun read

"Fun"? How so?

[tyron]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

fun read

My God, MrMiyagi you do no justice to the name you have assumed.

[Weapon X]

Alright. I'll bite. I have done my own research. I am an expert in building construction. This magazine is confusing in it's conclusions. Why did the penthouse collapse first? The penthouse stucture aside from a part of the outside facia was undamaged. The lower part of the building was the damaged part. Should the building have collapsed from this damage it would have made a lot of noise, groaned, tilted, gave a lot of indication that something was about to happen, leaned, leaned some more, then fell over. AND, it woud have taken a lot more time than 6 seconds. It would not have collapsed from the top down first. This again defys the laws of physics. If the lower columns were damaged in that corner then the rest of the intact structure would have resisted the collapse and the only senario that makes any physics sense (baring explosives) would have been for the building to topple over onto another building.

Tell you the truth in all the research I have not heard about the building making noises or groaning, But thanks to your mentioning it I found a lot of good information/

Captain Chris Boyle

Firehouse Magazine Reports WTC: This Is Their Story

http://www.firehouse.com/magazine/911/captain-chris-boyle

in a part of the articles it states

A little north of Vesey I said, we'll go down, let's see what's going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what's going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn't look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn't look good.

But they had a hose line operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we're going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn't look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn't really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I'm standing next to said, that building doesn't look straight. So I'm standing there. I'm looking at the building. It didn't look right, but, well, we'll go in, we'll see

First hand reports from the brave fireman about the building not looking straight, remember this is not me this is an interview to an honored Fireman Captain.

Here is another point of view that I has not seen or probably just skimmed over in the same article

So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody's going into 7, there's creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

[MrMiyagi]

"Fun"? How so?

Poking fun at conspiracy theorists who claim conjecture and heresay as undeniable truth; they say "here's what the experts say" or "here's what this one guy claims" but then disregard what many more experts and eye witnesses claim that opposes the conspiracy theory. Understandable that you wouldn't agree, most people don't find it entertaining when they're the one being made fun of.

[Weapon X]

Oh is that what you think of a real American hero ? He is a liar? Pathetic.

Explain the diagonal CUTS made on these columns which were at the base as you can see....

and if you really believe in the Popular Mechanics (debunked long ago) garbage "pancake theory",

then prove it....clap your hands 100 times in less than 10 seconds...bet you can't. Fail.

I am gonna take this one stepp at a time

Lets start with ther "thermite" cut columns. Have you ever heard of a Thermal lance?? It was used during the cleanup to cut down the iron beams

Look around 1:39 time fraim and they show your "thermite cut" beans and they make the claim that THEY CUT.

Here is another

How crazy is that, the thermite has been debunked, buy people who were cleaning the area out.

[NonLinear]

Poking fun at conspiracy theorists who claim conjecture and heresay as undeniable truth; they say "here's what the experts say" or "here's what this one guy claims" but then disregard what many more experts and eye witnesses claim that opposes the conspiracy theory. Understandable that you wouldn't agree, most people don't find it entertaining when they're the one being made fun of.

Hmmm.... you have an 'odd' since of humor. No 'FUN' intended! Too, small minds are easily entertained. "Understand" that?

[Sirius]

How crazy is that, the thermite has been debunked, buy people who were cleaning the area out.

Sigh, is all I can say, you are about 9 years behind us and I suggest you catch up.

Nano Thermite has not or ever will be debunked, it was found in endless samples of dust.

The original photo of the cut beam was seconds after it fell, as well as the molten metal which

remained red hot for weeks. See Nasa photos.

You need to stay away from NIST crap and government funded 9/11 debunking sites like Popular Mechanics.

So are you saying the firemen on the scene that claimed explosions all the way down the towers were lying?

Or are you going to try and say "that was just the floors hitting each other"? The pancake theory...more crap.

Time to research and join the majority who know the truth, this stuff is beginner 9/11 arguments...you should move

on to who did it and why. Follow the money, it usually works.

[Weapon X]

Oh is that what you think of a real American hero ? He is a liar? Pathetic.

You another one of these simpletons who believe Larry Silverstein meant get the firefighters out of building 7,

before he said "we decided to pull it"? There was no firefighters near building 7, they had been moved back already before he said that.

You don't refer to firemen as "it", he would have said get your men out of there, but they already were.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

Silverstein's Quote:

"I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, he was talking to the fire commander

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, both are not in the demolition business

Silverstein's spokesperson, Mr. McQuillan, later clarified:

"In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building."

He could be lying, right? But here is the corroborating evidence...

"They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there. Finally it did come down. From there - this is much later on in the day, because every day we were so worried about that building we didn't really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down." - Richard Banaciski

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Banaciski_Richard.txt

Here is more evidence they pulled the teams out waiting for a normal collapse from fire...

"The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn't] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely" - Daniel *****, Chief of Department

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Nigro_Daniel.txt

"Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area -- (Q. A collapse zone?) -- Yeah -- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed." - Chief Cruthers

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Cruthers.txt

"Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o'clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we've] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy.... The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn't] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that's] when 7 collapsed.... Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess." - Lieutenant William Ryan

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Ryan_William.txt

What more do you want?? These are statements of the Firefighters that were in WTC 7. You may want the "pull it" to be proof of demolition but even now I have not found evidence that "Pull it" is a demolition phrase. And yes when he says pull it I see as stop the attempt to save the building and "pull your people out of there"

[tyron]

Silverstein's spokesperson, Mr. McQuillan, later clarified:

"In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building."

He could be lying, right? But here is the corroborating evidence...

Of course Weapon, people often say 'pull it' when they mean 'pull out'. No problems there, but what is really sweet is the touching belief you have in Larry Silverstein, the cold-eyed billionaire-shark's view, that the most important thing that day was to protect the safety of those firefighters. ohhh...

[Sirius]

Silverstein's Quote:

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, he was talking to the fire commander

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, both are not in the demolition business

Silverstein's spokesperson, Mr. McQuillan, later clarified:

"In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building."

What more do you want?? These are statements of the Firefighters that were in WTC 7. You may want the "pull it" to be proof of demolition but even now I have not found evidence that "Pull it" is a demolition phrase. And yes when he says pull it I see as stop the attempt to save the building and "pull your people out of there"

There were no firefighters in WT7, they were out long before he said "pull it", and when do you refer to firefighters as "it"?

I see your main problem and that's your use and belief in the MSM, (NY Times) which is owned and controlled by the very same people behind 9/11.

Turn off your TV and stop reading MSM newspapers who have been proven to lie and have admitted it.

So in this clip when Rumsfeld says "shot the plane down" he actually meant flew it into the ground? Oh was it just a slip of the tongue?

No...truth tends to come out when all you can do is lie. But there lies are working on some still as I see.

So again, these people like Bush and Rice never would lie....but they did and there is no excuse for it.

The government really does think you are all stupid, but they are scared now because of the ones waking up.

I guess they never saw this document below either...

Edited September 11, 2011 by Sirius

[Weapon X]

Oh is that what you think of a real American hero ? He is a liar? Pathetic.

I guess you also assume that Barry Jenning was another liar? I don''t think you can be that dumbed down.

Barry makes it clear that BOTH towers were standing when the explosions went off in WTC 7.

Of course he died soon after along with many other "witnesses"....wake up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DuSeuxjiJQ

I cannot and have not found anything to say what Barry Jenning is lying but I did find an interview made tothe person that was with him at the time he claims explosions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/10/caught_up_in_a_conspiracy_theo.html

Scroll down and watch the interview Michale Hess gave the BBC in the documentary "The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Truth Behind The Third Tower".

[Weapon X]

There were no firefighters in WT7, they were out long before he said "pull it", and when do you refer to firefighters as "it"?

I see your main problem and that's your use and belief in the MSM, (NY Times) which is owned and controlled by the very same people behind 9/11.

Turn off your TV and stop reading MSM newspapers who have been proven to lie and have admitted it.

Sirius apparently the Canadian politics never make mistakes, well the US politicians make mistakes all the time:

Obama mentioned the US having 57 states.

and that is just one example.

You can take everything literally and believe that they do not make mistakes, but what you fail to remember is that on United Airlines Flight 93 there were phone calls made during the flight that gave us practically a step by step audible timeline of what was happening in the air there were no explosions there was no shooting down by any US military aircraft. There were no explosion marks on the debris recovered either.

I live in a free country apparently so do you, so you can believe what you want, all I see are conspiracy theories that have been debunked. We the US were attacked by terrorists that had bombed the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, bombed a US embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, they even tried to bring down the WTC's by bombing the basements in 1993 4 years before that Emergency Responce to terrorism even came up, so yes we had been attacked in our own soil before 911 and unfortunately we had 6 casualties at that time.

One can not pick and choose random pieces of info and try to piece together something, the facts are that the US had been attacked by terrorists before 911 ij both foriegn and national soil, so yes we had to prepare, and as a military veteran I know how it works, prepare for the worse hoping for the best.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Weapon X

[eddiemac]

I don't know why I'am thinking this, but wasn't WTC7 supposed to be demolished that day? If that is true that would explain the thurmite. Also I have watched

the History channel all day, and you can clearly see, Floor falling upon floor ect....... Let me know about wtc7 I maybe totally wronng.. thanks

[RSTEFAN]

Wow - Sirius and everyone that contributed

This stuff is unbelievable

I was forwarded this video, don't know if you all have seen this one. its pretty good

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/the-911-files/911-in-plane-site.html

People need to be told the truth, to many lies as far as i am concerned.

Everyone Please, have a Great Weekend and PRAY for all those that have been touched by this travesty.

Bob

[Weapon X]

Steel needs over two-thousand-five-hundred degrees to melt. I have seen it said that the major portion of the fuel burst into flame within the first few moments of the initial explosion. And I have seen it reported that jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. Me, I don't have a personal background to know about these things, myself. I'm not an Engineer. BUT I can read. I don't know just how long a smelter takes to melt steel. My guess is that it takes some time, and not a matter of minutes.

You are very correct steel does melt @ 2500 degrees, the misconception amongst truthers is that the steel melted, that is not the case, In the case of WTC 1 and WTC 2 unprotected steel warps, melts, sags and collapses when heated to normal fire temperatures about 1100 to 1200 degrees F.

Also, there is the question about how the buildings (all three of them) fell straight down exactly as the result of a PERFECTLY controlled planned expert demolition job where the reality is that they were but partly damaged on one side. They SHOULD HAVE toppled over to that damaged side.

WTC 1 and WTC 2 did not fall in their foot print the debris field of these two buildings was as far as 1300 feet in diameter to the point that debris from WTC 1 hit WTC 7 and made a considerable hole on the south side of the building.

I posted earlier a magazine article that explained about WTC 7 you could probably look for it will hill help understand a lot

Here is a picture of when the buildings started to fall and you will see it did not fall straight down

Below is a more accurate graphic using a paper written by Dr. Frank Greening which can be found at: http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf

Edited September 11, 2011 by Weapon X

[tyron]

You are very correct steel does melt @ 2500 degrees, the misconception amongst truthers is that the steel melted, that is not the case, In the case of WTC 1 and WTC 2 unprotected steel warps, melts, sags and collapses when heated to normal fire temperatures about 1100 to 1200 degrees F.

Steel had not only melted but was running like rivers of lava or as in a 'foundry'. The first responders and fire-fighter were witness to that. They have no reason to lie unlike Larry Silverstein who had very 'fortuitously' bought an insurance that covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total payout he received was $4.6 billion.

[umbertino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chj5R0Izt9s&feature=related

[tyron]

I was being facetious.

---------------------------

facetious [fəˈsiːʃəs]

adj1. characterized by levity of attitude and love of joking a facetious person2. jocular or amusing, esp at inappropriate times facetious remarks[from Old French facetieux, from facetie witty saying; see facetiae]

I've seen it told that the steel remained in a liquid pool for days. I don't rember how many days it was. But that seems oddly odd to me.

Among the few beams that remained un-melted, I did see one that was bent in a smooth curve.

E, that is just the beginning of all the things that simply don't add up. If anyone, and I mean anyone, comes in with an open mind and looks at the numerous anomalies of 9/11. they will be left in no doubt that the official version is the greatest conspiracy theory of all - passports don't survive fires that melt steel.

[TFK]

Sirius,

Your just a $h++ disturber. All you others that buy into all these conspiracy theories have some sort of mental disorder or something. You all should really look for help. Life must be one long, exhausting struggle in the world's you occupy! You certainly aren't living in the real world!

Put your faith in God, love your families and friends, work hard and have a good life. It's way to short to play in the sandbox you've chosen!

[Lutie]

The element I really like, is the wallet that fell out of a terrorist's pocket, who was seated in a jet, which was engulfed in flame deep within the center of a huge building. . . that Jack built! Man! That was a really good wallet! Didn't even get singed! Incredible!

What the hell is the matter with you people !! When this thing RVs you better use some of your money to admit yourself into a good institution.

[divemaster5734]

What the hell is the matter with you people !! When this thing RVs you better use some of your money to admit yourself into a good institution.

How about post RV institution

[Lutie]

Did you really mean that?

Are you totally brainwashed, or what?

You can always pack up and leave this country. You are free to go.

How about post RV institution

I like it ! Thank you.

[tyron]

Sirius,

Your just a $h++ disturber. All you others that buy into all these conspiracy theories have some sort of mental disorder or something. You all should really look for help. Life must be one long, exhausting struggle in the world's you occupy! You certainly aren't living in the real world!

Put your faith in God, love your families and friends, work hard and have a good life. It's way to short to play in the sandbox you've chosen!

TFK is you think that 9/11 is a $h++disturber dream come true then you must be very mad with your government. They spend trillions of your tax dollars, that you could be using on your family, on protecting American air space with the most up to date technology in the world - they told you it was the best in the world, because America deserves the best, and yet 19 Arabs (who btw were still alive after the event!! - wtf, and who their instructor said could barely fly a one engine Cessna), without any interference from the FBI command centre, or scrambler fighter jets managed the breathtaking feat of flying a commercial airliner straight smack into the Pentagon after they had decimated both the twin towers. For the trillions spent - not very impressive is it?

What the hell is the matter with you people !! When this thing RVs you better use some of your money to admit yourself into a good institution.

Lutie, there is only one cure for us. It is called the truth.

[Sirius]

I was being facetious.

[/size]

Yes I knew that, I wasn't bashing...just pointing it out for the government lovers to see.