raising purchasing power-rv

[Dalite]

I am just as disillusioned by the translation issues, as you and most others.  Someone once mentioned that there are only 5000 words in the Arabic language, and inflection is what is used to determine their meaning.  I haven't been able to confirm that, but I did learn about their use of tenses on action, and how it influences translations.

I believe Blue Orchid can go deeper into this, from translating to different languages and comparing the outcomes.

You are correct, the articles are repetitive to the point of distraction, and are aimed at the Iraqi citizens.  The concept was first rolled out in 2006.  In 2010, al-Sumeria Television ran a special segment on Redenomination; calling it a redenomination.

Here are the broad strokes of what was televised:

The episode tackled the following issues:

Is Iraq’s economy prepared for such a change?

What is the effect of removing zeros from the currency?

Will removing zeros from the currency cause fluctuations in the Iraqi market?

Is the project aimed to improve Iraqi payments system?

What is the effect of removing zeros on bonds market? How is the process of removing zeros progressing?

Will removing zeros add up to the purchase value?

What are the gains of such a project?

These questions were addressed with the following guests:

Iraq’s Central Bank advisor, Mazhar Mohammed;

Economist, Basem Antoine;

Economist, Majed Al Souri;

Baghdad Investment Committee spokesman and economist, Thaer Al Fili [Thair Feely];

Industrial investor, Thabet Al Baldawi;

Head of Iraqi Businessmen Union, Ragheb Rida;

and a number of Citizens.

Presented By: Ahmad Hassan

Directed By: Yaseen Mohamad Amin

Broadcast Time: Friday @ 21:55

Rerun Time: Sunday @ 11:00

Email: b-alghad@alsumaria.tv

The earliest mention of a planned RD that I have found was from 2006; from a different CBI governor, as Shabibi assumed the position in 2007.

The articles consistently report that 1 new Dinar will have the same value as 1000 old dinar.  That is the increase in value; it measures 1000 fold.  The articles show the need to reduce CBI liability from 30 trillion to 30 billion; that is a division by 1000.  The articles state differing time periods to indicate total time including the long education process, as well as the exchange period in which both currencies will co-exist.  If I could read Arabic, I could make a much more detailed response to other nuances, but I have to depend on the automated translations; just like everyone else.

These articles are available to the world.  Potential investors will be able to view them and use the info as part of their decision making process.  It is no question of Iraq having oil to produce, and that will attract investments.  But, the stability of government, and the economic stability that keeps citizens from revolting and breaking your stuff and shooting your people is always a concern.  The CBI has absolutely nothing to gain by trying to pull a fast one on the potential future of the country.  

The Dinar community has been programmed to reject anything that detracts from the possibility of a large RV as smoke and mirrors.  I question a lot of translations, but can't take a chance on doubting the consistency of message that has so far spanned the terms of two CBI governors.

It is not a matter of me wanting a RD.  What I want, or need is not a factor in any CBI decision.  It is only their decisions that can affect me that I need to be concerned about.  For that reason alone, I took the time to learn about the possibilities.

To be fair, there is an awful lot of benchmarks to be met, approval to be attained and security to be implemented, and stability to be proven before Iraq can take the chance on exposing their currency to the trading market.

These same elements affect their ability to quickly RD the currency as much as they affect their ability to initiate a large RV.

Having said that, anything can happen at any time, and sometimes decisions are taken out of necessity that may not be the best of all possible choices.

Can I ignore the Iraqi media?  No

Do I dare consider it all lies? Certainly not

Do I take it all at translated structure, without comparing to past releases when I am trying to harvest facts?  No; can't afford to do that

Do I think it will RD?  Only if the CBI gets their stated first choice granted.

Do I think it can RV?  Certainly; especially if the CBI is blocked by parliament at the hands of Maliki.  Sometimes we have to fall back to Plan B, or even Plan C.

This is probably a longer reply than you expected, or even wanted, but my views seem to be a major concern, an I feel it best to explain where they come from, to the best of my ability.

Lastly, am I always right?  Negative.  I never learn anything from being right. 

It is only when my take is wrong that I learn something new...  As bad as that sounds, I expect to be wrong many more times, while I am still alive.  In fact, I will predict that whenever I stop taking the chance of being wrong will be the day I have given up on learning...

Dalite,

I just mentioned several examples of inconsistency from these articles that you put so much faith into. You say Shabs wouldn't do that, but don't you have even a little bit of suspicion when this "education campaign" is only confusing people? So the CBI is doing an "education campaign" and they are not even educated enough themselves to make sure that the articles they use are all undoubtedly understood? Someone earlier mentioned typos and translation again, but thats just simply not the case when you look at all the contradicting articles or statements that have been published.To assume Shabs wouldn't use "propaganda" to help the CBI is just that, an assumption. You don't know shabbs personally and now you are just putting faith into a man that works in the most corrupt system out there. That was actually an odd statement from you about shabbs wouldn't lie about anything. You don't seem like the type to put blind trust into another mans word that you don't know. Especially when he holds the key to the big money. All I am saying is this is the WORST put together education campaign by a supposedly professional institution. Makes me wonder just a little.

[RVIP]

NUFF SAID... ahhh hahahahaha.

[Dalite]

One theory is the M0, M2 can be reduced because they are still part of the electro magnetic field. Simply construct a device to alter it. Montauk, philadelphia experiment type stuff. Im sure the lopsters have all the answers for that scenario too.

Dalite looks like he probably attempted to build a device to alter the emf back in the 70's, Mr. fn could get all the extra parts from acme, keepm looks like he would try to put it on a car, jmw would stand around and explain how it couldnt be done, blue orchid would criticize keepm for doing everything wrong and wink and smile, dinarck was put in time out for stirring the pot....would be entertaining to see.

Thanks for helping us realize that there is always levity to diffuse tension.

You and I don't agree on a lot of things here, but I respect you for what you believe in, as well as your sincerity in defending your ideals.

Plus, that EMF thing.... Priceless.

[MoneyMoney7]

Just to add to your post-what gov is totally honest in anything they say or do? I guess those that voted for hope and change can enlighten us.

You got that right.

[Darin]

One theory is the M0, M2 can be reduced because they are still part of the electro magnetic field. Simply construct a device to alter it. Montauk, philadelphia experiment type stuff. Im sure the lopsters have all the answers for that scenario too.

Dalite looks like he probably attempted to build a device to alter the emf back in the 70's, Mr. fn could get all the extra parts from acme, keepm looks like he would try to put it on a car, jmw would stand around and explain how it couldnt be done, blue orchid would criticize keepm for doing everything wrong and wink and smile, dinarck was put in time out for stirring the pot....would be entertaining to see.

Ha, you should write a story by using what appears to be LOP gurus personalities and incoporate it into a short-story.

KeepM would be slightly optimistic, yet argues against many concepts. In the story, he could be driving a beamer

JMW would argue anything.... Even the thoughts that the sky is blue & the grass is green.

GT5 - could be the guy who is just plain mad at the world. He would be Mr. Negativity

and I am sure you can expand from there.

[zul]

I agree that their economy can go only up from here....that is certain....but they must still deal with all the after effects of suffering through those hyperinflation years that led to a devalued currency and a heavily inflated money supply....

The only talk I have seen of them dealing with that is by deleting the zeros (RD)....which we all don't want.....

If you look at the numbers and compare turkey and iraq, they are actually pulling in more revenue through exports then iraq is with oil....which is why they moved forward with removing the zeros....a lot of planning is involved when redenominating because if not done correctly it can damage the economy even worse....turkey understood this and changed their monetary policy to address the hyperinflation and they were quite stable right before they deleted the zeros and is why they are doing quite well today as a result of it....

So we are still stuck at 'deleting 3 zeros'. If Iraq is planning to raise the value of the dinar and give more purchasing power to the dinar, they need to redenominate. Introduce lower denom and remove/delete/raise currencies with 3 zeros. And I still say, they are doing this by taking out those currencies out of circulation, physically. Not RD/ LOP.

Recent articles seems to convince me even more ~

** the President of the Iraqi Securities Commission, had confirmed, trading and shares will not be affected.~ in a LOP situation, their shares will definitely be affected.

** IMF data says IQD is undervalued ( as at 2009) the real rate of IQD = 292 to 1 USD ( just recently Saleh said their reserves is now 250 billion), what that 250 billion would do to the current rate? (Let's not forget ~ the IMF rate in 2009 was still based on 27 billion dinar in circulation @ 50 billion reserves)

** the 'old currencies' will not be deleted/cancel..but will coexist until dissappears gradually ( no time limit, no window period, no exchange of old to new currencies).

There are a few more...but it's 2.40am here now...and all i can think of is bed

Anyway Keep, thank you for your response. And congratulations.

Edited August 31, 2011 by zul

[Francie26]

I am just as disillusioned by the translation issues, as you and most others.  Someone once mentioned that there are only 5000 words in the Arabic language, and inflection is what is used to determine their meaning.  I haven't been able to confirm that, but I did learn about their use of tenses on action, and how it influences translations.

. . .

"whenever I stop taking the chance of being wrong will be the day I have given up on learning..."

Excellent!! A statement that could only be made by a true learner.

[Don & Rocio]

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ON YTL

 

1. Why was Turkish Lira redenominated by dropping six zeros?

As it is known, the high inflationary process, which started in Turkey in 1970s, has led to the expression of some economic values in terms of billions, trillions or even quadrillions.

In this process, cash demand in the economy was met by new banknotes in larger denominations that were put into circulation nearly every 2 years since 1981.

As a result, highest-denominated banknote (20.000.000) was used only in Turkey. And this fact had a negative effect on the credibility of our currency.

Moreover, figures with multiple zeros led to problems in accounting and statistical records, data processing software and payment systems as well as in transactions at the cashier’s office.

Therefore, redenomination of Turkish Lira became psychologically and technically essential.

 

2. What are the benefits of removing zeros from Turkish Lira?

With the redenomination of Turkish Lira;

- Technical and operational problems arising from the use of figures with multiple zeros are settled,

- Determination in bringing inflation down to single digits permanently is better comprehended,

- With the introduction of two larger value YTL denominations, there is no need to make any changes in denomination composition for a long run under the stability environment,

- Transition to single-digit inflation restores the credibility of our currency.

- The habit of using coins develops, thus allowing the transactions to be carried out in Kurus again.

 

3. What is the name of our State’s new currency unit?

Effective from 01.01.2005, the name of our New Currency unit is “New Turkish Lira” (YTL). The sub-unit of New Turkish Lira is “New Kurus” (YKr).

One New Turkish Lira is equivalent to a hundred New Kurus.

 

4. Why is the new currency called “New Turkish Lira”?

While determining our new currency unit, the expression of “Lira” has been preserved, which is the unique currency unit traditionally used throughout the Republican period and identified in the international markets with Turkey.

Besides, other countries that have dropped zeros from their currencies introduced the title “new” before the name of their national currencies in general.

On the other hand, countries, which had to remove zeros many times due to hyperinflation, have preferred to introduce different names in order to avoid any confusion between old and new currency units.

However; under the assumption that there will be no further need to drop zeros in the long run thanks to the sustained economic stability, the expression “New” has been deemed appropriate to precede the name of the national currency for a temporary period of time.

 

5. What is the conversion rate between Turkish Lira and New Turkish Lira?

While converting Turkish Lira values into New Turkish Lira; one million Turkish Lira (1.000.000 TL) is equal to one New Turkish Lira (1 YTL).

In other words, 6 zeros were dropped from our currency. That means 20.000.000 Turkish Lira and 20 New Turkish Lira have the same purchasing power.

 

6. Why were 6 zeros rather than 3 zeros removed from our currency?

Removing 3 zeros from our currency was inadequate to overcome the technical difficulties caused by multiple zeros.

Dropping 6 zeros provides a parallelism to the denomination values in developed countries.

 

7. What is the composition of denominations for YTL banknotes and coins?

YTL banknotes: 1, 5, 10, 20, 50 and 100 YTL,

Coins: 1, 5, 10, 25, 50 New Kurus and 1 New Turkish Lira.

 

8- The smallest coin denomination is 1 New Kurus. So, how are the transactions below 1 New Kurus concluded?

Unit costs of goods and services can be specified below 1 New Kurus. As for transactions in New Turkish Lira, fractions equal to half-a-New Kurus or exceeding are rounded off to one New Kurus while less than half-a-New Kuruş is disregarded during payments and transactions.

 

9. When were New Turkish Lira and New Coins put into circulation?

New Turkish Lira and New Coins were put into circulation on January 1, 2005.

 

10. Why was the operation performed in 2005?

49 countries had removed zeros from their currencies so far. Transition to new currency units in these countries had been performed along with a stabilization program in general, and following the successful results of the program on the inflation front.

Since the successful implementation of the current stabilization program had produced favorable results, it was deemed appropriate to start the operation in early 2005.

Moreover, the beginning of fiscal year wass preferred in transition to zero removal operation in general, in order not to impose burdens on real persons and legal entities liable to keep books and records with drawing up interim financial statements.

 

11. How long will current banknotes and coins be in circulation?

Current banknotes and coins will be in circulation until the end of 2005. Throughout 2005, Turkish Lira and New Turkish Lira banknotes and coins will concurrently be in circulation for one year.

Starting from the January 1, 2006, Turkish Lira banknotes will be accepted during the 10-year redemption period and coins will be accepted during 1-year redemption period by the Central Bank of the Republic of Turkey (CBRT) and T.C. Ziraat Bank branches (where a Central Bank branch is not available).

 

12. Why has been a one-year concurrent circulation period stipulated in transition to YTL?

One-year concurrent circulation has been stipulated in order to enable our citizens to convert their banknotes and coins into new ones at their convenience throughout 2005. Hence, there is no need for individuals to rush for the conversion, since the currency conversion process will be accomplished in its natural course.

 

13. What are the stages of the transition to new currency?

Similar to the practices in most countries, the operation consists of two stages.

At the first stage, TL and YTL banknotes and coins will be in circulation concurrently for one year as of 1 January 2005.

At the second stage of the operation to be carried out on a later date after 2006, the expression of “Yeni” (New) before the “Turkish Lira” will be removed, and the use of the expression of “TL” will be reintroduced.

 

14. May the redenomination lead to higher inflation?

As it is known, rounding-off prices has become one of the most debated matters in Euro zone where a similar operation was experienced.

Unlike fractional conversion rates used in transition to Euro, the operation in Turkey is merely a zero-removal operation.

Therefore, rounding-off prices was expected to be smoother process in Turkey compared to Euro zone. Furthermore, according to official statements, the impact of rounding-off on general consumer price index in the first six months of 2002 has not exceeded 0.2 % in Euro zone.

Besides, it should be kept in mind that the rounding-off impact already exists in Turkey due to high inflation and the lack of habit of using coins.

As a result, the impact of rounding-off prices was expected to be temporary even if it realizes at low level. Afterall, it is clearly observed that the operation had no inflationary effect.

The zero-removal operation was not expected to have either a favorable or an unfavorable effect on exchange rates or interest rates, apart from its positive impact on expectations, since the main factors determining the general level of exchange rates and interest rates are the economic fundamentals and the current stabilization program.

 

15. Will the redenomination affect exchange rates or interest rates?

The zero-removal operation was not expected to have either a favorable or an unfavorable effect on exchange rates or interest rates, apart from its positive impact on expectations, since the main factors determining the general level of exchange rates and interest rates are the economic fundamentals and the current stabilization program.

 

16. How will the legislation, administrative, juridical and legal transactions involving Turkish Lira be concluded in terms of YTL after the transition to YTL?

All references made to “Turkish Lira” or “Lira” in laws and other legislation, administrative procedures, court decisions, legal operations, commercial papers and other documents that produce legal effects as well as means of payment and instruments of exchange shall be considered to have been made to “New Turkish Lira”.

 

17. Will the conversion of the documents issued in terms of TL into YTL during the transition process produce any fiscal liability?

The parties shall be exempt from any and all kinds of tax, duty, fee and other liabilities arising from all kinds of legal acts, negotiable instruments and documents issued in terms of Turkish Lira producing legal effects provided that these are converted into the New Turkish Lira before 31 December 2005 (including that date) by taking the conversion rate into account.

 

18. How will the price labels and lists displaying commodity and service prices be issued throughout 2005?

The lists of price labels and tariffs to be issued under Article No.12 of Law on Consumers’ Protection shall be displayed in terms of both TL and YTL between

January 1, 2005 and December 31, 2005.

Those who fail to fulfill this obligation shall be subject to the penalty stipulated in the second paragraph of Article 25 of the same Law.

 

19. What kinds of security features are incorporated into 100 New Turkish Lira banknote?

The security features built in current banknotes are divided into two groups: public-oriented and professionals-oriented features. The security features incorporated into 100 YTL -banknote are as follows:

I- Public-Oriented Security Features

1- Raised Print (Intaglio): On the observe side, the portrait of Atatürk, the band on the bottom, blue-green guilloche design, “TÜRKİYE CUMHURİYET MERKEZ BANKASI” and “TÜRKİYE CUMHURİYET MERKEZ BANKASI BANKNOT MATBAASI” clauses, the value numerals and letters are printed in relief.

2- Optical Security Feature: The figure on the right-hand side of the portrait, printed by optically variable ink, changes its colour from goldish yellow to green when the note is tilted.

3- Windowed Security Thread: On the reverse side of the banknote, a metallic silver windowed security thread with a mini-lettering of “TCMB” takes place on the right. The security thread forms a straight line when the note is held against light and can be seen from both sides.

4- Latent Image: On the observe side, the blue and green coloured guilloche design at the lower right corner contains a latent image of the letters ”TC” that can be seen when the note is horizontally tilted against light at the eye level.

5- Watermark: On the observe side, the watermark of the smaller size of the portrait of Atatürk and the value numeral “100” are placed on the blank space at the left-hand side of the note and can be seen from both sides when the note is held against light.

6- See-Through Image: On the bottom left of the denominational numerals of 100 on the upper left corner of the banknote, the see-through register is placed, which forms the letters “TC”, combining with the elements of both sides when the note is held against light.

 

II- Professionals-Oriented Security Features

1-Micro Lettering: On the observe side, the denominational numerals of “100” are filled with the clause of “YÜZYTL” and the bottom of the lower band are filled with micro-lettering of the clause of “TCMB” and  can be read with a magnifying glass.

2- Fine-Line Printing: The red and blue fibres embedded at the pure cotton paper are also visible under UV light.

3- Special Fluorescent Inks: When the note is exposed to UV light, 8 torch motifs and the signature of Atatürk appear on the ground of the portrait on the observe side..

4-Specially-Printed Serial and Sequence Numbers: On the reverse side, a nine-digit serial and sequence number, printed in red on the upper left corner, gives fluorescent red reflection and the serial number, printed in black at the lower right side, gives fluorescent yellowish green reflection under ultraviolet light.

5- Banknote Paper: Special banknote paper is used that does not glow under UV light.

Security features of all denominations are visually described on the Bank’s Internet page.            (http://www.tcmb.gov.tr/  - banknotes)

 

20. Is it possible to counterfeit all domestic and foreign banknotes?

Yes, it is possible to counterfeit all banknotes. However, fake banknotes fail to involve security features of original banknotes.

In the event of a control exercised over a few security features, it is possible to distinguish original banknotes from the fake ones.

 

21. Are there additional security features incorporated into YTL banknotes for visually impaired?

In order to facilitate the identification of the different denominations by all blind and visually impaired persons, the banknotes are printed in different sizes according to their denominations.

Due to the repeated issue of new larger value denominations owing to high inflation, it could not be possible to issue different denominations in different sizes up to today.  

In the transition process to YTL, few differences were introduced to some banknote sizes (1, 50, 100 YTL).

Following further improvement in Turkey’s current economic conditions and the zero-removal operation, the Central Bank is planning to introduce additional distinctive features to our banknotes issued with the latest technology on international standards, along with supplementary current measures, in order to help especially our visually impaired citizens.

 

22. How should the banknotes be used for a longer life span?

In order to enhance the quality of the banknotes in circulation:

- Necessary care and attention should be paid not to mutilate banknotes.

- Banknotes should not be wrinkled or perforated and nothing should be written on them.

- Torn banknotes should not be taped for the sake of smooth operation of banknote handling systems.

- The habit of using wallet should be widespread.

- Soiled and worn-out banknotes should be exchanged at the Central Bank branches or via banking system. 

 

23. Where and how are the old and damaged banknotes exchanged?

Whole banknotes, whose values can be identified, but are soiled, washed, dyed, burnt, torn or are worn or due to other reasons and the banknotes whose surface deficiency is less than 50% are exchanged with value at par. Banknotes with 50% surface deficiency are exchanged with new ones at half face value. The banknotes with more than 50% surface deficiency are not exchanged.

Soiled, worn-out banknotes or banknotes incurring partial physical loss can be exchanged directly at the Central Bank branches or at T.C. Ziraat Bankası, our domestic correspondent, or at the branches of other banks and financial institutions.

 

24. Is using soiled and worn-out banknotes dangerous to health?

Research shows that some microorganisms reproduce at a higher rate on damaged and contaminated banknotes and skin infections such as abscess and gastroenteritis are diagnosed especially in cashiers.

Along with the preventive health measures, one of the most effective ways to avoid possible negative effects of soiled and worn-out banknotes is to exchange them with the new ones and to use new and clean banknotes as much as possible.

With the aim to extend the scope of its services in order to make TL banknotes in circulation available in the composition of clean banknotes as much as possible, the Central Bank is establishing banknote deposits with the T.C. Ziraat Bankası branches, exchanging worn-out banknotes on site, chiefly at touristic districts, and encouraging banks to return worn-out banknotes to the Central Bank.

 

25. How did the transition to YTL affect bank accounts?

Bank accounts were converted into YTL as of January 1, 2005.

 

26. What is the currency code for New Turkish Lira?

According to the information received from BSI (British Standards Institution) – ISO 4217 MA/Secretariat, the currency code for New Turkish Lira is “TRY 949 2”.

 

27. When was the currency code for New Turkish Lira published in the official ISO currency code list?

As of November 6, 2004, ISO Code of New Turkish Lira was published at “SWIFT Network”.

 

28. Can "TRL" be used as the international currency code for Turkey besides "TRY"?

In the broadcast message dated November 22, 2004, SWIFT announced that until the end of 2006, "TRL" code would be used along with "TRY" at the "SWIFT Network" and the cancellation date for the "TRL" code would be announced later, again via another message. In this context, as of December 9, 2006, TRL code was deleted from the "SWIFT Network" and "TRY" became the sole international currency code for Turkey.

My link

Sorry if this was already asked but I havent made it through the entire thread yet.

My question is what happened to those turks that had 10,000,000 Lira in the bank? Did they now only have 10 Lira?

[20MillionDinar]

Dalite,

I just mentioned several examples of inconsistency from these articles that you put so much faith into. You say Shabs wouldn't do that, but don't you have even a little bit of suspicion when this "education campaign" is only confusing people? So the CBI is doing an "education campaign" and they are not even educated enough themselves to make sure that the articles they use are all undoubtedly understood? Someone earlier mentioned typos and translation again, but thats just simply not the case when you look at all the contradicting articles or statements that have been published.To assume Shabs wouldn't use "propaganda" to help the CBI is just that, an assumption. You don't know shabbs personally and now you are just putting faith into a man that works in the most corrupt system out there. That was actually an odd statement from you about shabbs wouldn't lie about anything. You don't seem like the type to put blind trust into another mans word that you don't know. Especially when he holds the key to the big money. All I am saying is this is the WORST put together education campaign by a supposedly professional institution. Makes me wonder just a little.

Exactly. What they should be doing "IF" this was part of the education process would be to simply create 1 PDF document. Release this document to all of the news networks in Iraq. Then they would publish the SAME article over and over again.

Translation might be "confuse" us speculators outside Iraq but at least the translation would be consistent. They can't even say that about the current articles they are releasing every day. They are all different!

This is definitely not part of the education process. I agree with YourIntelSux, this is the worst education campaign by a government and Central Bank in the history of the world if this is indeed what they are trying to do.

In 2003 it took them a matter of a few months to complete the process from start to finish. Why not just duplicate what they did before? Maybe because they aren't doing what they say they are doing...

Sorry if this was already asked but I havent made it through the entire thread yet.

My question is what happened to those turks that had 10,000,000 Lira in the bank? Did they now only have 10 Lira?

Yes

[Darin]

Exactly. What they should be doing "IF" this was part of the education process would be to simply create 1 PDF document. Release this document to all of the news networks in Iraq. Then they would publish the SAME article over and over again.

Translation might be "confuse" us speculators outside Iraq but at least the translation would be consistent. They can't even say that about the current articles they are releasing every day. They are all different!

This is definitely not part of the education process. I agree with YourIntelSux, this is the worst education campaign by a government and Central Bank in the history of the world if this is indeed what they are trying to do.

In 2003 it took them a matter of a few months to complete the process from start to finish. Why not just duplicate what they did before? Maybe because they aren't doing what they say they are doing...

Yes

How hard is it to say... "Everything is divided by zero, with the exception of the exchange rate as that is multiplied 1,000 times"

That is basically a LOP in a single sentence

Yet this campaign has been going on since 2007? Maybe longer?

And it is not like the people would be unfamiliar with it all... 2004 they had a re-denomination (new currency) exchanged at 1:1...

The details are not set in stone, and the media lacks those details so they rely on history of other Lops and relay how the process would speculatively play out. The media is likely not much different than us and using the lop as a likely high probability for all we know. So many possibilities..

[Realdinar]

Exactly. What they should be doing "IF" this was part of the education process would be to simply create 1 PDF document. Release this document to all of the news networks in Iraq. Then they would publish the SAME article over and over again.

Translation might be "confuse" us speculators outside Iraq but at least the translation would be consistent. They can't even say that about the current articles they are releasing every day. They are all different!

This is definitely not part of the education process. I agree with YourIntelSux, this is the worst education campaign by a government and Central Bank in the history of the world if this is indeed what they are trying to do.

In 2003 it took them a matter of a few months to complete the process from start to finish. Why not just duplicate what they did before? Maybe because they aren't doing what they say they are doing...

Yes

I agree 20, I believe if the government wanted to educate the masses on something this important, they would educate in the streets. It only makes sense. Door to door or mosques, something like that. Something practicle. Why use inconsistant news paper articles?

[Sirius]

Exactly. What they should be doing "IF" this was part of the education process would be to simply create 1 PDF document. Release this document to all of the news networks in Iraq. Then they would publish the SAME article over and over again.

Translation might be "confuse" us speculators outside Iraq but at least the translation would be consistent. They can't even say that about the current articles they are releasing every day. They are all different!

This is definitely not part of the education process. I agree with YourIntelSux, this is the worst education campaign by a government and Central Bank in the history of the world if this is indeed what they are trying to do.

In 2003 it took them a matter of a few months to complete the process from start to finish. Why not just duplicate what they did before? Maybe because they aren't doing what they say they are doing...

Well said, if many of the people over here have problems agreeing on what it all means, how the heck are the average Iraqi citizens going to get it?

If a 25 new Dinar note will be equal to the value of a 25K, that says 1:1 RV and the new notes value with the RV will equal what the 25K used to equal,

and the 25K note will not be affected by the change of currency, or will retain it's value and they will coexist until removed or deleted.

We just need to get the proof of the numbers or amount of currency outside the CBI.. All IMO of course, but sounds easier that the other options.

[joeroy]

Hello everyone, this is my first time to respond to any and all quips that has been put on at this space. If all that has been said about dropping the three zeros from the currency, will that mean we should sell our Dinar back to the bankers for a smaller denomination currency so as to keep our value in place??? Or is this another dustcloud that has dimmed our vision of the reality of what is coming with the RV...

[Darin]

Whatever the articles state, we have to keep one thing in mind.. They won't say they're adjusting the rate, increasing the exchange rate, or re-valuing their currency from the way we hope or perceive.

They will commit to a revenue-neutral event to curb speculation. They have to explain the new currency, and the new lower denominations. But, throughout the whole process, you know it'll be in regards to making it seem as if the LOP is the way they'll do it. Doesn't confirm or deny, but regardless, I laugh at the R/D Lop articles because if they did trully intend to R/V - the same info would come out.

They can tell the world they're lopping.

They can't tell the world they're going to revalue until after the event.

See the difference?

[JWJW11]

Whatever the articles state, we have to keep one thing in mind.. They won't say they're adjusting the rate, increasing the exchange rate, or re-valuing their currency from the way we hope or perceive.

They will commit to a revenue-neutral event to curb speculation. They have to explain the new currency, and the new lower denominations. But, throughout the whole process, you know it'll be in regards to making it seem as if the LOP is the way they'll do it. Doesn't confirm or deny, but regardless, I laugh at the R/D Lop articles because if they did trully intend to R/V - the same info would come out.

They can tell the world they're lopping.

They can't tell the world they're going to revalue until after the event.

See the difference?

Man you are always spot on! Thanks for the time u put into this!

[estewart]

Whatever the articles state, we have to keep one thing in mind.. They won't say they're adjusting the rate, increasing the exchange rate, or re-valuing their currency from the way we hope or perceive.

They will commit to a revenue-neutral event to curb speculation. They have to explain the new currency, and the new lower denominations. But, throughout the whole process, you know it'll be in regards to making it seem as if the LOP is the way they'll do it. Doesn't confirm or deny, but regardless, I laugh at the R/D Lop articles because if they did trully intend to R/V - the same info would come out.

They can tell the world they're lopping.

They can't tell the world they're going to revalue until after the event.

See the difference?

THAT is the bottom-line fundamental REALITY.

[jg167_mkII]

Whatever the articles state, we have to keep one thing in mind.. They won't say they're adjusting the rate, increasing the exchange rate, or re-valuing their currency from the way we hope or perceive.

They will commit to a revenue-neutral event to curb speculation. They have to explain the new currency, and the new lower denominations. But, throughout the whole process, you know it'll be in regards to making it seem as if the LOP is the way they'll do it. Doesn't confirm or deny, but regardless, I laugh at the R/D Lop articles because if they did trully intend to R/V - the same info would come out.

They can tell the world they're lopping.

They can't tell the world they're going to revalue until after the event.

Wow, talk about rationalization! Of course they will not disclose an RV (of any size, even tiny) beforehand, they will just do it. But if they were not planning on an RD, why would they talk about it at all? Any country that pegs its currency is likely to RV from time to time, and hopefully Iraq will do a pretty big one soon. They also seem very very likely to do an RD soon. The only question is the size of each of the components, RD and RV.

[MrFnHappy]

One theory is the M0, M2 can be reduced because they are still part of the electro magnetic field. Simply construct a device to alter it. Montauk, philadelphia experiment type stuff. Im sure the lopsters have all the answers for that scenario too.

Dalite looks like he probably attempted to build a device to alter the emf back in the 70's, Mr. fn could get all the extra parts from acme, keepm looks like he would try to put it on a car, jmw would stand around and explain how it couldnt be done, blue orchid would criticize keepm for doing everything wrong and wink and smile, dinarck was put in time out for stirring the pot....would be entertaining to see.

LMFAO :lol:

+1 for this one!

[speculatorsRIDE]

Whatever the articles state, we have to keep one thing in mind.. They won't say they're adjusting the rate, increasing the exchange rate, or re-valuing their currency from the way we hope or perceive.

They will commit to a revenue-neutral event to curb speculation. They have to explain the new currency, and the new lower denominations. But, throughout the whole process, you know it'll be in regards to making it seem as if the LOP is the way they'll do it. Doesn't confirm or deny, but regardless, I laugh at the R/D Lop articles because if they did trully intend to R/V - the same info would come out.

They can tell the world they're lopping.

They can't tell the world they're going to revalue until after the event.

See the difference?

Spot on Darin. It really is that simple. No need to over think, speculate or rationalize.

[Darin]

Wow, talk about rationalization! Of course they will not disclose an RV (of any size, even tiny) beforehand, they will just do it. But if they were not planning on an RD, why would they talk about it at all? Any country that pegs its currency is likely to RV from time to time, and hopefully Iraq will do a pretty big one soon. They also seem very very likely to do an RD soon. The only question is the size of each of the components, RD and RV.

Well, now that you understand the concept that I provided. Ask yourself, "Why so many R/D articles exist, especially as of recently?" -- I hear they've been around since 2007, and as the years go by, become more abundant.. They sure talk about it a lot, but we have yet to see much movement. Really makes me want to "scratch my head and go what are you waiting for than?" So, I start to think, must be some ulterior motive.

And this is just a theory, but the theory is that they're trying to push the Iraqi's to use the IQD over the USD.

Dollarization is an issue. When Turkey citizens started converting more of their USD or EUROs to the new Lira, the Lira appreciated. So, the R/D articles could very well be a great thing even though we complain about seeing them so much. If Iraqis have faith in their own currency, it may also help them have faith in bringing up the value. Local demand would rise, and USD would come out of circulation and put into reserves to help strengthen the currency.

[keepmwlknfny]

They can tell the world they're lopping.

They can't tell the world they're going to revalue until after the event.

What I find funny is that people use that expression all the time about how they wont come out and tell the world they are going to RV so of course naturally they will say that the RD articles are bunk because they want to deter speculation, but yet when the articles come out talking about strengthening the dinar, raising the purchasing power and its value, those same people are all over it like white on rice and screaming go RV from the top of their lungs and believing that now all of a sudden they are telling us they are going to RV LOL and it just so happens that some of the articles that do speak of purchasing power, value, etc etc are the delete the zeros articles.....

Ironic isent it? LOL

[estewart]

What I find funny is that people use that expression all the time about how they wont come out and tell the world they are going to RV so of course naturally they will say that the RD articles are bunk because they want to deter speculation, but yet when the articles come out talking about strengthening the dinar, raising the purchasing power and its value, those same people are all over it like white on rice and screaming go RV from the top of their lungs and believing that now all of a sudden they are telling us they are going to RV LOL and it just so happens that some of the articles that do speak of purchasing power, value, etc etc are the delete the zeros articles.....

Ironic isent it? LOL

It's a positive indication. It's a kmatter of implication.

[HopefulTxn]

Well, now that you understand the concept that I provided. Ask yourself, "Why so many R/D articles exist, especially as of recently?" -- I hear they've been around since 2007, and as the years go by, become more abundant.. They sure talk about it a lot, but we have yet to see much movement. Really makes me want to "scratch my head and go what are you waiting for than?" So, I start to think, must be some ulterior motive.

And this is just a theory, but the theory is that they're trying to push the Iraqi's to use the IQD over the USD.

Dollarization is an issue. When Turkey citizens started converting more of their USD or EUROs to the new Lira, the Lira appreciated. So, the R/D articles could very well be a great thing even though we complain about seeing them so much. If Iraqis have faith in their own currency, it may also help them have faith in bringing up the value. Local demand would rise, and USD would come out of circulation and put into reserves to help strengthen the currency.

When you look at how they typically do things, it doesn't look like they have an ulterior motive, they just simply don't make changes that fast. Look at the HCL, tariff laws, Article 140, etc. It seems to simply be par for the course in how they operate.

[babyorca]

Ha it's funny I was just sifting by this thread and was like what over 120 replies what could be going on here. Before I was just about to click to the thread it dawned on me must be lopsters.

Ha it's funny I was just sifting by this thread and was like what over 120 replies what could be going on here. Before I was just about to click to the thread it dawned on me must be lopsters.

Ahem it's over 170

[Darin]

What I find funny is that people use that expression all the time about how they wont come out and tell the world they are going to RV so of course naturally they will say that the RD articles are bunk because they want to deter speculation, but yet when the articles come out talking about strengthening the dinar, raising the purchasing power and its value, those same people are all over it like white on rice and screaming go RV from the top of their lungs and believing that now all of a sudden they are telling us they are going to RV LOL and it just so happens that some of the articles that do speak of purchasing power, value, etc etc are the delete the zeros articles.....

Ironic isent it? LOL

You present a very strong argument, no doubt. I don't read the articles as stating they are going to R/V. I read the articles looking for time-frames on when they intend to act. If they keep saying that new currency will be introduced soon (I think of it as lower denominations), I see that the end of the road is near. The articles may appear to scream LOP, but using the argument I give, reason to get a little excited is valid when it appears the end is near. Whether they decide to R/V or R/D (lop) is out of our hands, so, now we just wait & hope for the best... I don't know about you, but, I would rather have this come to a conclusion instead of being in the dark for a longer period of time.

What will eventually happen, if they don't act, is people will wonder why the articles are so abundant, yet not followed up with action. People will start to question that & think outside the box. I've already started to think outside the box in terms of the articles. But I don't really rely on the media articles for facts.... I try to look for more official documents to go by.

When you look at how they typically do things, it doesn't look like they have an ulterior motive, they just simply don't make changes that fast. Look at the HCL, tariff laws, Article 140, etc. It seems to simply be par for the course in how they operate.

And you don't think the CBI is trying to pressure the citizens to use IQD over USD? You don't think they're using the media in any form to suppress speculation?

I'm stating the articles are actually indeed a good thing, if effective with their ulterior motives.

Why? -- More locals using IQD means higher demand, less USD on the streets, the USD is drawn into the CBI and helps strengthen the IQD while also appreaciating the IQD.

And.... The R/D articles have existed since 2007, which is quite frankly odd considering that the currency was initially released in 2004. How do you gain faith in something that is going to be replaced every few years?

I'm only spewing opinions, as most of what everyone else does here. I don't claim this to be fact, but a reasonable, or even feasible theory/hypothesis on the underlying campaign.

It doesn't confirm or deny the LOP - it merely states they are trying to encourage more IQD use.

If you were a local over there, I bet you would be burying your IQD in the sand and relying on USD waiting for the purchasing power to rise on the IQD. Would you not? Or would you completely refuse to use USD and rely on the IQD?