***Very interesting article***

[LuvRubies]

There are MANY reasons why a LOP is not logical. For one, remember the article that refers to the fund giving the US 23 billion in "wiggle room"??? Google it. This fund, will not be further contributed to; however, this fund exists. Of the 23 billion, we assume a HUGE amount is in IQD. As a "strategic partner" of Iraq, with a potential of the US making a boatload with an RV, do the lopsters really think our strategic financial partnership really benefits by a LOP? Um, I think not!

Goooo RV !!!

There are MANY reasons why a LOP is not logical. For one, remember the article that refers to the fund giving the US 23 billion in "wiggle room"??? Google it. This fund, will not be further contributed to; however, this fund exists. Of the 23 billion, we assume a HUGE amount is in IQD. As a "strategic partner" of Iraq, with a potential of the US making a boatload with an RV, do the lopsters really think our strategic financial partnership really benefits by a LOP? Um, I think not!

Goooo RV !!!

U.S. Treasury ~ "Currency Market Instability" Pool of Money Set Aside Gives Treasury $23 Billion of Wiggle Room in Spending ~ Last Ditch Effort ...

Exchange Stabilization Fund - The Exchange Stabilization Fund (ESF) consists of three types of assets: U.S. dollars, foreign currencies, and Special Drawing Rights (SDRs), which is an international reserve asset created by the International Monetary Fund. The financial statement of the ESF can be accessed at "Reports" or "Finances and Operations." The ESF can be used to purchase or sell foreign currencies, to hold U.S. foreign exchange and Special Drawing Rights (SDR) assets, and to provide financing to foreign governments. All operations of the ESF require the explicit authorization of the Secretary of the Treasury ("the Secretary"). The Secretary is responsible for the formulation and implementation of U.S. international monetary and financial policy, including exchange market intervention policy. The ESF helps the Secretary to carry out these responsibilities. By law, the Secretary has considerable discretion in the use of ESF resources. The legal basis of the ESF is the Gold Reserve Act of 1934. As amended in the late 1970s, the Act provides in part that "the Department of the Treasury has a stabilization fund …Consistent with the obligations of the Government in the International Monetary Fund (IMF) on orderly exchange arrangements and an orderly system of exchange rates, the Secretary …, with the approval of the President, may deal in gold, foreign exchange, and other instruments of credit and securities. Federal Reserve @ http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/international/ESF/Pages/esf-index.aspx

July 15, 2011

[RodandStaff]

Gee... I am sure gonna be glad when Adam opens up the "DEBATE" forum... then maybe all ya'll who keep posting the same ol' same ol' can argue till the cows come home... over on that forum! Can't wait!

[Realdinar]

A redenomination (lop) would bring their currency more inline with the value of the USD and quite possibly reduce the use of USD in their marketplace, especially if they have notes that equal close to the US $100.

In that case, it really makes no difference if they RV or RD, as long as the notes value are closer to 1:1.

I believe it's Article 36 of the CBI Law that states that they have the right to issue new currency and offer free of charge currency in equal amounts. If they redenominate, a 25,000 note ($21.50) would be exchanged for a new 25 dinar note ($21.50), so they would have met their obligation it seems.

Link - Turkey will lop six zeros from its currency at midnight

Link - Iran Approves Plan to Lop 3 Zeros off Rial

Link - Venezuela May Lop Zeroes Off Currency to Simplify Transactions

So they have around $85 in their bank account before a redenomination (lop), they would still have around $85 in their account after redenomination (lop). This is going to make them more inclined to strap on a bomb?

Iraq could possibly choose a floating currency, but we do have to remember that they have had a fixed exchange rate to another currency (GBP & USD) since the first started issuing currency in 1931, so they may choose to remain with a fixed exchange rate.

I definitely agree about the lop statement. At some point it was defined incorrectly as some kind of devaluation.

Your notes have been labeled with a nominal value (face value). If they change currencies they are not required to give you a note that is more valuable that the one you already have. If your 25,000 dinar note is worth $21.50, and they issue new currency without the zeros, and the new 25 note is also worth $21.50 they can simply give that one and they have fulfilled their obligation.

One thing that I think some people still have a hard time understanding is that two currencies with two different face values can exist in the market but have the same purchasing power. What we currently hold is IQD, if they redenominate they will issue a second currency set, possibly called NID (I believe that is the currency code they used when they did this it in 2003).

In a straight redenomination IQD would remain to have an exchange rate of $0.00086, and the new 'NID' would have an exchange rate of $0.86. An item in the store during the exchange period set by the CBI that cost 27,000 IQD could be paid for with (2) 10,000 IQD, (1) 5,000 IQD & (2) 1,000 IQD notes OR it could be purchased with (2) 10 NID, (1) 5 NID & (2) 1 NID notes. Either method of payment would result in paying the equivalent of approximately $23.08 USD.

Some people have asked what good a redenomination does for them. One thing is that as foreign reserves increase, the value of the currency could better reflect those increases. Lets say that the IQD has 50 trillion in physical and electronic dinar. For every $5 billion USD added to the foreign currency reserves, it would only increase the value $0.0001 per dinar. If they redenominate which reduces that 50 trillion to 50 billion physical and electronic dinar, then that same $5 billion USD increase would be reflected as a $0.10 increase per dinar.

Which would look better to both foreign investors and Iraqi's, the $0.0001 or $0.10 increase in value?

That's all a redenomination is about, clearing the clutter caused by the period that they suffered high inflation which devalued their currency and bloated their monetary system in order to make room for the the currency to have room for growth.

All of us would love to see a straight RV to a even a few cents over them performing a redenomination. But Iraq is going to do what is best for them, and they may not think that putting themselves further into debt than they already are is a good idea just to raise the value of their currency. We can all hope that they think that way, but many people still push it as a guarantee of huge wealth and that the only unknown is when. And I for one don't see any issue with reminders that there are absolutely no guarantees of profit with the dinar, let alone the retirement level returns being claimed. But hey, I that's just me - I don't like being lied to.

Ok they will exchange free of charge currency in equal amounts. So if I decide to exchange my dinars for the new currency then my 25,000 dinar note is still worth 25000 dinars. Not sure why you included your fuzzy lop economics beliefs in along with the definition of the cbi bank article 36.

[Realdinar]

A redenomination (lop) would bring their currency more inline with the value of the USD and quite possibly reduce the use of USD in their marketplace, especially if they have notes that equal close to the US $100.

In that case, it really makes no difference if they RV or RD, as long as the notes value are closer to 1:1.

I believe it's Article 36 of the CBI Law that states that they have the right to issue new currency and offer free of charge currency in equal amounts. If they redenominate, a 25,000 note ($21.50) would be exchanged for a new 25 dinar note ($21.50), so they would have met their obligation it seems.

Link - Turkey will lop six zeros from its currency at midnight

Link - Iran Approves Plan to Lop 3 Zeros off Rial

Link - Venezuela May Lop Zeroes Off Currency to Simplify Transactions

So they have around $85 in their bank account before a redenomination (lop), they would still have around $85 in their account after redenomination (lop). This is going to make them more inclined to strap on a bomb?

Iraq could possibly choose a floating currency, but we do have to remember that they have had a fixed exchange rate to another currency (GBP & USD) since the first started issuing currency in 1931, so they may choose to remain with a fixed exchange rate.

I definitely agree about the lop statement. At some point it was defined incorrectly as some kind of devaluation.

Your notes have been labeled with a nominal value (face value). If they change currencies they are not required to give you a note that is more valuable that the one you already have. If your 25,000 dinar note is worth $21.50, and they issue new currency without the zeros, and the new 25 note is also worth $21.50 they can simply give that one and they have fulfilled their obligation.

One thing that I think some people still have a hard time understanding is that two currencies with two different face values can exist in the market but have the same purchasing power. What we currently hold is IQD, if they redenominate they will issue a second currency set, possibly called NID (I believe that is the currency code they used when they did this it in 2003).

In a straight redenomination IQD would remain to have an exchange rate of $0.00086, and the new 'NID' would have an exchange rate of $0.86. An item in the store during the exchange period set by the CBI that cost 27,000 IQD could be paid for with (2) 10,000 IQD, (1) 5,000 IQD & (2) 1,000 IQD notes OR it could be purchased with (2) 10 NID, (1) 5 NID & (2) 1 NID notes. Either method of payment would result in paying the equivalent of approximately $23.08 USD.

Some people have asked what good a redenomination does for them. One thing is that as foreign reserves increase, the value of the currency could better reflect those increases. Lets say that the IQD has 50 trillion in physical and electronic dinar. For every $5 billion USD added to the foreign currency reserves, it would only increase the value $0.0001 per dinar. If they redenominate which reduces that 50 trillion to 50 billion physical and electronic dinar, then that same $5 billion USD increase would be reflected as a $0.10 increase per dinar.

Which would look better to both foreign investors and Iraqi's, the $0.0001 or $0.10 increase in value?

That's all a redenomination is about, clearing the clutter caused by the period that they suffered high inflation which devalued their currency and bloated their monetary system in order to make room for the the currency to have room for growth.

All of us would love to see a straight RV to a even a few cents over them performing a redenomination. But Iraq is going to do what is best for them, and they may not think that putting themselves further into debt than they already are is a good idea just to raise the value of their currency. We can all hope that they think that way, but many people still push it as a guarantee of huge wealth and that the only unknown is when. And I for one don't see any issue with reminders that there are absolutely no guarantees of profit with the dinar, let alone the retirement level returns being claimed. But hey, I that's just me - I don't like being lied to.

Also, you gave an example of trading in my 25000 dinar note in for a 25 dinar note worth the same amount. I disagree because that would imply that the rv already occurred because now 25 dinars is worth 21 dollars! So....if 25 dinars is worth 21 dollars, how many dollars is 25000

dinars worth in dollars? At that point im exchanging my dinars for US dollars. Therefore in that instance, we become wealthy and Allah is pleased his children honored their promise.

[Dalite]

Not so, The Federal Reserve purchased trillions of IQD to start the 'controlled' economy. The 140 article is hog wash and is completely incongruent with the $Billions used to repurchase the dinar off the free market place. Coins are already minted, you can buy as much as you want.

Link please on the Federal Reserve purchase.

Article 140 is part of the Iraqi Constitution; take it up with them.

Article 140 has nothing to do with currency auctions - which by and sell dinar to keep them in circulation between the other banks in Iraq.

Coins were minted, and withdrawn. That is why the CBI shows them not to be in circulation on their webpage.

Coins are available on eBay. I have plenty from the Saddam era... Some vendors are selling the more current ones, but they aren't being used in Iraq.

The CBI states they will introduce new coin after they ReDenominate.

The new coins will most likely also be Article 140 compliant, but I haven't seen that officially stated, yet.

Really, these Forum Facts are too easy to claim, and most couldn't be further from the truth.

[dinarck]

Also, you gave an example of trading in my 25000 dinar note in for a 25 dinar note worth the same amount. I disagree because that would imply that the rv already occurred because now 25 dinars is worth 21 dollars! So....if 25 dinars is worth 21 dollars, how many dollars is 25000

dinars worth in dollars? At that point im exchanging my dinars for US dollars. Therefore in that instance, we become wealthy and Allah is pleased his children honored their promise.

Hopeful couldn't have done a better job of explaining a redenomination and how it works. You seem to remain confused. Like he said there we be two seperate currencies with two seperate exchange rates co-existing at the same time. Your 25,000 note will be worth 25 USD which it is now and the new 25 note will be worth 25 USD. Read up on Venezuela and Turkey and how theirs went down.

[Realdinar]

Hopeful couldn't have done a better job of explaining a redenomination and how it works. You seem to remain confused. Like he said there we be two seperate currencies with two seperate exchange rates co-existing at the same time. Your 25,000 note will be worth 25 USD which it is now and the new 25 note will be worth 25 USD. Read up on Venezuela and Turkey and how theirs went down.

"two seperate exchange rates co-existing at the same time"

I disagree and Im done. In the same way you are sure they will lop, I dont believe its going to work that way.

[HopefulTxn]

Ok they will exchange free of charge currency in equal amounts. So if I decide to exchange my dinars for the new currency then my 25,000 dinar note is still worth 25000 dinars. Not sure why you included your fuzzy lop economics beliefs in along with the definition of the cbi bank article 36.

Why? Because they don't have to give you something with the same number embossed on it. They simply have to exchange your note for a note of equal value. In a redenomination, the new 25 note would carry the exact same value. I am talking about REAL value, not nominal value.

So if they redenominate and the 25,000 IQD note and the 25 NID note carried the same real value, that is all they are required to give you.

Also, you gave an example of trading in my 25000 dinar note in for a 25 dinar note worth the same amount. I disagree because that would imply that the rv already occurred because now 25 dinars is worth 21 dollars! So....if 25 dinars is worth 21 dollars, how many dollars is 25000

dinars worth in dollars? At that point im exchanging my dinars for US dollars. Therefore in that instance, we become wealthy and Allah is pleased his children honored their promise.

You may have missed this line in the example about 27,000 IQD - "Either method of payment would result in paying the equivalent of approximately $23.08 USD."

If a straight redenomination occurs, your 25,000 dinar note will be worth the same amount in USD after the redenomination as it is worth at this moment. Redenomination is value neutral. If they do redenominate they could possibly RV afterwards, but the example was referring solely to a reenomination scenario.

[plum]

Check this out:

Iraqi Dinar Revaluation - july 8

Hot News: Iraqi Dinar Revaluation - july 8

Hot News: Iraqi Dinar Revaluation - july 8 | Global investment news | U.S. national debt will exceed $14.5 trillion by the end of the summer. The government has been underwater so long, it has gills. But despite their desperate condition, the Feds still have a few tricks up their sleeve that will allow them to keep “kicking the can” down the road. One of the gimmicks they've cooked up to stave the wolves off is becoming more and more evident: The revaluation of the Iraqi dinar.

Iraqi dinar collapsed after the United States invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam. Prior to U.S. invasion, the Iraqi currency was trading over USD3 to one Iraqi dinar on the strength of the country's massive oil industry.

After the dinar collapsed, it was trading significantly lower. At one point, a single dollar purchased one thousand Iraqi dinar.

Speculators began to take positions in 2004 hoping someday, the dinar would recover and the United Nations economic sanctions would be lifted, allowing the currency to be revalued. Since then, there has been much speculation regarding how and when that would occur.

But here's the really interesting part:

The United States Government is the Largest Holder of Iraqi Dinar Outside of Iraq: Does that really come as a surprise?

The U.S. Treasury does not officially list the Iraqi dinar as part of the country's forex reserves.

However, the U.S. Treasury does say it did an initial currency swap with Iraq to fund their government and Ministries.

Exactly how many dinars were traded is not mentioned, but it does make reference to “billions of U.S. dollars” traded to Iraq.

About two months ago, Iraqi dinars could no longer be purchased; the recent Dodd Frank bill appears to have legislation related to the revaluation of a foreign currency and preventing mass hysteria.

From what I have been able to gather, it sounds like this plan was originally put together by George Bush, **** Cheney, Alan Greenspan, and others years ago as a way for the U.S. government to be repaid (read: get kickbacks) for their efforts in Iraq.

Experts speculate that the U.S. government has received almost 4,000,000,000,000 Iraqi dinars to one dinar exchange rate of USD1 to IQD 4,000.

If this is even close to truth - and the United Nations allows Iraq to REVALUE their currency to U.S. $1 : 1 Iraqi dinar - the U.S. government would be able to finish in billions - like anyone else who speculates on the dinar in recent years.

[Rasica]

Link please on the Federal Reserve purchase.

Article 140 is part of the Iraqi Constitution; take it up with them.

Article 140 has nothing to do with currency auctions - which by and sell dinar to keep them in circulation between the other banks in Iraq.

Coins were minted, and withdrawn. That is why the CBI shows them not to be in circulation on their webpage.

Coins are available on eBay. I have plenty from the Saddam era... Some vendors are selling the more current ones, but they aren't being used in Iraq.

The CBI states they will introduce new coin after they ReDenominate.

The new coins will most likely also be Article 140 compliant, but I haven't seen that officially stated, yet.

Really, these Forum Facts are too easy to claim, and most couldn't be further from the truth.

Well we are not seeing the same relevancy of Article 140. I see article 140 as irrelevant and is not enacted anyways.

Anyone can still buy Saddam era paper or coins but that is not relevant to the New Iraqi paper and coin dinars.

Central Bank issues coins of 25, 50 and 100 dinars for circulation

Sunday, January 2nd 2005

The

Central Bank

of Iraq will be issuing coins of 25, 50 and 100 dinars for

circulation

starting today. The coins have been issued according to the following

specifications

of the Central Bank:

The front side of the coin shows the map of Iraq with two dates Hegira, 1425 and A.d., 2004.

The back side of the coin contains a circle that has the

denomination

of the coin within the circle (25, 50, 100 dinar); "Central Bank of Iraq" is written on the top of the coin, while the denomination of the coin is written on the bottom.

Dinar denomination ; Metal ; Diameter mlm ; Weight, Gram ; Shape

100 ; Nickel plated steel ; 22 ; 4.3 ; Circle/jagged

50 ; Brass plated steel ; 20 ; 3.5 ; Circle/smooth

25 ; Copper plated steel ; 17.5 ; 2.5 ; Circle/smooth

http://admin.iraqupdates.net/p_articles.php/article/889

http://www.msymboll.totalh.com/asia_iraqi_dinar_coins.htm

Now some can pull up articles that show in 2004 the coins were pulled out of circulation - one then needs to ask why in 2005 they were issued into circulation?

It is my understanding that the 50 dinar coin is rare and is basically being phased out.

[Rasica]

http://admin.iraqupd...php/article/889

This link doesn't seem to go directly to the article so copy paste

Central Bank Issues Coins of 25, 50 and 100 dinars for circulation

into google and look for Iraqupd and you will get the article.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Rasica

[Sirius]

Hopeful couldn't have done a better job of explaining a redenomination and how it works. You seem to remain confused. Like he said there we be two seperate currencies with two seperate exchange rates co-existing at the same time. Your 25,000 note will be worth 25 USD which it is now and the new 25 note will be worth 25 USD. Read up on Venezuela and Turkey and how theirs went down.

Although we know they have stated the 2 currencies will coexist for a period of time, can you provide that link where it stated there will be 2 different rates for the currencies?

They have also said it will be late 2012 for the new currency with the Kurdish language on it, so no movement for a year? I doubt it.

[HopefulTxn]

Although we know they have stated the 2 currencies will coexist for a period of time, can you provide that link where it stated there will be 2 different rates for the currencies?

They have also said it will be late 2012 for the new currency with the Kurdish language on it, so no movement for a year? I doubt it.

The two different rates is based upon their many statements of planning a redenomination. Something we obviously hope is not what they actually do. But there if that is the direction that they indeed go, then there are plenty of examples to determine that there would be 2 currencies with 2 rates.

And people last year didn't think it would go until 2011, and in 2009 didn't think it would go into 2010 and so on. They will make the change when they make the change.

Edited July 31, 2011 by HopefulTxn

[PartyTime]

Hopeful couldn't have done a better job of explaining a redenomination and how it works. You seem to remain confused. Like he said there we be two seperate currencies with two seperate exchange rates co-existing at the same time. Your 25,000 note will be worth 25 USD which it is now and the new 25 note will be worth 25 USD. Read up on Venezuela and Turkey and how theirs went down.

And look how that turned out for Turkey. You must have missed the statement by Shabibi where he stated they can learn from Turkey. I would take that statement as meaning learning from their mistake so Iraq does not repeat it. If they were to do this as you say they will, then they would be repeating the same mistake.

[HopefulTxn]

http://admin.iraqupd...php/article/889

This link doesn't seem to go directly to the article so copy paste

Central Bank Issues Coins of 25, 50 and 100 dinars for circulation

into google and look for Iraqupd and you will get the article.

Unfortunately the site that published the article below does not keep articles online for over a year but a quick google of the text can show that it was posted in multiple forums June 6th of last year. I do remember seeing the actual article, but as I stated, unfortunately they don't keep their articles online forever.

I am critical of the deputy central bank selling the currency in the markets of scrap metal

Bar News | 06-07-2010

Baghdad / Orr News

Warned a member of the Iraqi parliament from the Sadrist bloc, Hussein Alwan al-Lami of the danger of the continued sale of the Iraqi Central Bank of the coin abolished in the scrap market price of an understatement.

Al-Lami said that "the Iraqi Central Bank sold the entire amount of coin new canceled at about 250 thousand dollars a cheap price compared to their cost prohibitive, which leads to the wonderful especially since we know that the cost of this currency has reached 16 million dollars," referring to the apathy in the making important decisions and waste of public money.

Lami said that such decisions are not in the interests of the Iraqi people who are dying of hunger and poverty, which lacks the most basic services, livelihood and water and electricity.

According to this article last year the CBI irritated a Parliament member by selling the entire lot of coins (25,50,100) for scrap metal. So it would seem that the coins that they minted in 2004 would also most likely be irrelevant.

[Hamels]

Hi Easyrider

Sorry mate your link doesnt work & please

IF ANYONE & I MEAN ANYONE CAN GIVE ME A LINK TO OR EVIDENCE OF THE IRAQI GAZETTE THEN PLEASE SEND IT TO ME

I have read this so called gazette articles from many before but not 1 person has posted a link to this newspaper that actually works so for now any articles under the Iraq Gazette doesn’t have any bearing or meaning to me at all

Sorry easyrider I aint bashing you just need some clarification before this article can be taken with the respect if warrants

Regards All

Zantac

There is no newspaper called the Gazette....it is lost in translation....it is reading out loud the law when it passes, so no need in looking for a newspaper

[HopefulTxn]

There is no newspaper called the Gazette....it is lost in translation....it is reading out loud the law when it passes, so no need in looking for a newspaper

According to the Yale Law School site, the the Iraqi official gazette (Al-Waqa’i Al-Iraqiya) is not currently available online Link).

According to the Global Justice Project: Iraq site, the publication has been published since 1922:

The Official Gazette of Iraq الوقائع العراقية (Alwaqai Aliraqiya) has been published since August 1922 as a means of introducing legal measures into force via publication.

Link

Using the link above one can obtain summaries from the gazette from 2003 to 2009. Where updates earlier than that are found I am not certain. The link above also gives a good history of the gazette (Al-Waqa’i Al-Iraqiya).

Hope that helps.