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kcw

Sonny1 afternoon drive by 7/19/11

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Team mates.. please don't get upset with me.. BUT.. why is everybody "pinning" their hopes on an RV as soon as the HCL law is passed and as soon as the GOI is completed? Honestly.. I have not found one article that even insinuates an RV after these two "guru rumors" or "inter net rumors" are complete.

I hope I am wrong...but has anybody else considered this? Is there any proof? Again.. if it's just an opinion...that is fine.

Just for the beauty of free speech.. based on Shabibbi and remarks he has made.. I have fallen into the RD them RV camp.

As stated before... I think the international community will make Iraq earn their status and earn the increase in the value of the dinar.

I am looking for Iraq to prove it by drastically dropping their national unemployment rate..(Kuwait is apprx. 3%!)

Continuing to increase oil and gas production, imports, exports, agriculture, stable and safe environment for foreign nationals, etc. etc.

I like this investment.. I just don't see an overnight revalue to anything near the Kuwait dinar....until Iraq is comparable to Kuwait

I like reading all the opinions and I enjoy being encouraged to think differently and investigate other economic ideas and logic.

Thanks to all who post and offer intelligent discussion.

Tom

Hi Tom. The reason the HCL is the latest item up for discussion is due to the fact that Sonny has indicated that he believes it to be the final holdup to the RV. Obviously many disagree, but the more important issue here is to get a rational explanation for his position. Many of us would like to respect his opinions, but I for one expect people to support their positions if they believe them to be fact. I'm still waiting for the explanation as to how Iraq will make TRILLIONS from a straight RV. I sincerely hope they can, but I'd really like to hear HOW.

As an example, Iraq, with a current value of 1170 Dinars per Dollar has a stated M2 of roughly 59 TRILLION Dinars. Kuwait, on the other hand, which has a currency value of $3.64 per Dinar, has an M2 of only 28 BILLION Dinars. Therefore, to ME at least, it makes no sense that Iraq can suddenly change their 59 Trillion Dinar to $59 Trillion DOLLARS......or more. All the hocus pokus about fractional banking, petro-dinars, etc, wouldn't seem to change the basic math in play here. Look at the M2 of virtually any country, and see how it compares. It would seem that they can't possibly RV without reducing the Dinars in circulation form 59 Trillion to somewhere in the BILLIONs. The logical way to do that is to RD and THEN RV. Help me understand this if I'm wrong. It doesn't seem all that complicated.

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it sure does seem sonny doesent like people confronting his opinions......i personally think hes a pumper with a ego and i only read his chat for entertainment only..........scooter and doc are the only ones i give credit to and enjoy reading what they have to say.........

thanks for the support.......

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Hi Tom. The reason the HCL is the latest item up for discussion is due to the fact that Sonny has indicated that he believes it to be the final holdup to the RV. Obviously many disagree, but the more important issue here is to get a rational explanation for his position. Many of us would like to respect his opinions, but I for one expect people to support their positions if they believe them to be fact. I'm still waiting for the explanation as to how Iraq will make TRILLIONS from a straight RV. I sincerely hope they can, but I'd really like to hear HOW.

As an example, Iraq, with a current value of 1170 Dinars per Dollar has a stated M2 of roughly 59 TRILLION Dinars. Kuwait, on the other hand, which has a currency value of $3.64 per Dinar, has an M2 of only 28 BILLION Dinars. Therefore, to ME at least, it makes no sense that Iraq can suddenly change their 59 Trillion Dinar to $59 Trillion DOLLARS......or more. All the hocus pokus about fractional banking, petro-dinars, etc, wouldn't seem to change the basic math in play here. Look at the M2 of virtually any country, and see how it compares. It would seem that they can't possibly RV without reducing the Dinars in circulation form 59 Trillion to somewhere in the BILLIONs. The logical way to do that is to RD and THEN RV. Help me understand this if I'm wrong. It doesn't seem all that complicated.

I think that this is the reason I like marcuscurtis' explanation of rv multiple times over a period of time. Thereby, having each new successive rv pay for the one previous to it; all the while reducing the monetary supply. Then again who knows how long the GOI accepts the 000's bills and what kind of timeframe the over all "event" would take. Anyways it will be interesting to say the least. Let's get it started.

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I believe the key here is 27 Trillion Dinars in circulation, and an M2 of 59 Trillion Dinars. How much of this is actually owned by the CBI? That is what you need to know. Any value attributed to CBI owned dinar would become an increase in assets of the CBI. Depending on the RV value it could be trillions.

Edited by speculatorsRIDE
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I believe the key here is 27 Trillion Dinars in circulation, and an M2 of 59 Trillion Dinars. How much of this is actually owned by the CBI? That is what you need to know. Any value attributed to CBI owned dinar would become an increase in assets of the CBI. Depending on the RV value it could be trillions.

I don't believe that would be the case....the dinar is debt to them...so anything they hold that is dinar reduces their debt but doesn't become an asset...their assets have to be in foreign currency and/or gold/silver. Otherwise they could just print up a bunch of new assets.

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First let me thank Sonny and KCW for the post. All information about the RV is what the site is all about. My question comes from the chat [sonny1] yodamom hcl is disbution of oil wealth, it is different

HCL is the Hydro Carbon Law and has nothing to do with the distribution of wealth, so did I miss something or am I just confused? I am not trying to bash nor call anyone out just thinking maybe I misunderstood.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com.../#ixzz1SaUWE2FC

I thought the HCL was a law regarding the wealth of Iraq and the amount of money every Iraqi worldwide would receive from their national oil and gas sales.

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I don't believe that would be the case....the dinar is debt to them...so anything they hold that is dinar reduces their debt but doesn't become an asset...their assets have to be in foreign currency and/or gold/silver. Otherwise they could just print up a bunch of new assets.

jmw you are correct. assets was a poor choice of words. My apologies. So how much of the dinar in circulation and how much of the M2 figure are actually property of the CBI?

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jmw you are correct. assets was a poor choice of words. My apologies. So how much of the dinar in circulation and how much of the M2 figure are actually property of the CBI?

All of it....if their money supply is 59 trillion....then the CBI is on the hook for all of it.

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All of it....if their money supply is 59 trillion....then the CBI is on the hook for all of it.

I am just having a hell of a time trying to explain what I want. I want to know how much of those figures is IQD belonging to the bank and not owed to anyone? How much IQD does the bank own outright? How much of the 59 trillion IQD will not be paid to anyone because it belongs to the CBI?

We know that the lower denoms were printed when the current notes we hold were printed. Those lower denoms are sitting in the CBI vault. That currency is owned by the CBI and no one has any claim to it. Therefore, any revalue of the currency will increase the value of the lower denoms and that will be increase for the CBI. The higher the revalue the more the CBI makes. It will be trillions as sonny1 said. At this point the question becomes what the CBI does with the 000 notes as they are turned in?

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I am just having a hell of a time trying to explain what I want. I want to know how much of those figures is IQD belonging to the bank and not owed to anyone? How much IQD does the bank own outright? How much of the 59 trillion IQD will not be paid to anyone because it belongs to the CBI?

We know that the lower denoms were printed when the current notes we hold were printed. Those lower denoms are sitting in the CBI vault. That currency is owned by the CBI and no one has any claim to it. Therefore, any revalue of the currency will increase the value of the lower denoms and that will be increase for the CBI. The higher the revalue the more the CBI makes. It will be trillions as sonny1 said. At this point the question becomes what the CBI does with the 000 notes as they are turned in?

We don't know that the lower denoms were printed back in 2003, that is simply a forum myth that has never been substantiated. If the lower denominations were printed then, why would they have been talking about the need to print the new currency with the Kurdish language on them?

In regards to the CBI making trillions off of releasing more notes, at a higher rate, doesn't seem to hold water. One of the problems Saddam ran into was the CBI was printing and releasing a lot of dinar under his orders - why did the value plummet then and would suddenly make the CBI money now? The CBI releasing more notes only increases their liability levels - how is this making them trillions? There is already a huge amount of currency in the system, where is the CBI to make money when according to the CBI laws they have to exchange currency (dinar to dinar) at no charge?

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I don't believe that would be the case....the dinar is debt to them...so anything they hold that is dinar reduces their debt but doesn't become an asset...their assets have to be in foreign currency and/or gold/silver. Otherwise they could just print up a bunch of new assets.

Would they be able to back there assets with their oil reserves?

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I'm going to use Jan 2011 as an example, because I remember a lot of the figures off the top of my head.

M1 = 51,000 billion (or, 51 trillion)

What was accounted for in bank reserves was 27 trillion

24 trillion circulated outside of the banks...

Now, we could assume a lot of that is hidden under citizens mattresses over there.

Another large % circualtion within the region

And.... smaller % in foreign countries like the U.S.

I am sure that the CBI is not too concerned about the bank reserves as if they were on the hook-for them. When in reality, if I recall, banks are required to hold 250 billion in capital for reserves (by the way, that is dinars, not dollars)

Figure that at 20+ banks...That is roughly 5 trillion right there..

But either way, the M1 & or M2 figure are rather high...

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I am just having a hell of a time trying to explain what I want. I want to know how much of those figures is IQD belonging to the bank and not owed to anyone? How much IQD does the bank own outright? How much of the 59 trillion IQD will not be paid to anyone because it belongs to the CBI?

We know that the lower denoms were printed when the current notes we hold were printed. Those lower denoms are sitting in the CBI vault. That currency is owned by the CBI and no one has any claim to it. Therefore, any revalue of the currency will increase the value of the lower denoms and that will be increase for the CBI. The higher the revalue the more the CBI makes. It will be trillions as sonny1 said. At this point the question becomes what the CBI does with the 000 notes as they are turned in?

maybe I'm not understanding it either LOL...but narrowest measurement is M1 which is also the most liquid measurement of their money supply...meaning it is cash or electronic deposits that can be withdrawn...(a "time deposit") like a CD that can't be withdrawn is not included in the M1.

Iraq's is over 51 Trillion dinar...and all of them are the liability of the CBI....but the M2 is as well and it is 59 trillion.

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[sonny1] whitelions im saying he is doing an awful job of being president, i voted for him, that was the dumbest decision i ever made. un-emp is up, he drove debt up 4 trillion in 3 years, the stimulus was a joke, and every major city in america is broke, i think that sums up an awful president-bad leadership

..........and to think that Obama was handed perfection. Sham on him for doing this to America all by his lonesome!!! (and she drops the mic and passes out)

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Sonny1,

Just ignore these guys. They are just a bunch of bummers. They take shots at me when I criticize them, but who cares. Most everybody has a firm belief now on where this thing is going. Their ideas are mute now. They mean nothing!

People, if you believe in a lop, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and believe it. I don't, and I really don't care what the lopsters think! You'd have done a lot better investing your money in mutual funds.

I know you lopsters are in a way trying to protect people from themselves. It won't work. Throughout history it never has and it never will (gold-rush, pyramid scams, penny stocks, lotteries, gambling, etc, etc. etc.) I really don't care if financially shaky people squander their hard earned money on dinar anymore.

Just look at them line up at the mall to buy the next big lottery ticket. They'll spend every cent they have and loose. But next week they're right back at it spending every nickel they own. Yes it's sad but it's their money. They can do what ever the hell they want with it. They don't need all you negative trolls to be their big brother! It's sort of creepy!

Spoken like a true fence sitting liberal. Their two thoughts have absolutely nothing in common!

One believes we will have wealth, the other thinks this investment is a waste of time. What gives? :blink:

oh I thought liberals should not be allowed to be in this investments.....only conservatives should make a huge profit.....

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[sonny1] whitelions im saying he is doing an awful job of being president, i voted for him, that was the dumbest decision i ever made. un-emp is up, he drove debt up 4 trillion in 3 years, the stimulus was a joke, and every major city in america is broke, i think that sums up an awful president-bad leadership

..........and to think that Obama was handed perfection. Sham on him for doing this to America all by his lonesome!!! (and she drops the mic and passes out)

yes the president took over a fine oiled economy from GW.....he had done so well Mcain almost rode his coattails to the whitehouse......right now we have republicans in control in the House and all the polls seem to blame congress more than than the president for our economic situation....it is the same old GOP game....stall and lay blame......never legislate.....usually their game is investigate........the president should quit negiotiating and use his executive order powers and move on.....what the heck... he will be re-elected....the GOP will fight among themselves to the end to find an extreme right winger which luckily has no chance in a nation wide election........but the can take pride in winning the deep south as usual......

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Would they be able to back there assets with their oil reserves?

typically no...at least it has never been none before...it is considered to volatile of a commodity....if the price can swing significantly then it would have a constant affect on the value of the currency.

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yes the president took over a fine oiled economy from GW.....he had done so well Mcain almost rode his coattails to the whitehouse......right now we have republicans in control in the House and all the polls seem to blame congress more than than the president for our economic situation....it is the same old GOP game....stall and lay blame......never legislate.....usually their game is investigate........the president should quit negiotiating and use his executive order powers and move on.....what the heck... he will be re-elected....the GOP will fight among themselves to the end to find an extreme right winger which luckily has no chance in a nation wide election........but the can take pride in winning the deep south as usual......

Curious how you blame GOP when O had a Progressive, er, Democratic House and Senate...it is hard to argue that they didn't get a lot done (mostly bad), and didn't ask for GOP opinions while creating new legislation..."You have to vote and pass the Bill before you can find out what is in the Bill" good old Pelosi...jus' sayin'...

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yes the president took over a fine oiled economy from GW.....he had done so well Mcain almost rode his coattails to the whitehouse......right now we have republicans in control in the House and all the polls seem to blame congress more than than the president for our economic situation....it is the same old GOP game....stall and lay blame......never legislate.....usually their game is investigate........the president should quit negiotiating and use his executive order powers and move on.....what the heck... he will be re-elected....the GOP will fight among themselves to the end to find an extreme right winger which luckily has no chance in a nation wide election........but the can take pride in winning the deep south as usual......

yes the president took over a fine oiled economy from GW.....he had done so well Mcain almost rode his coattails to the whitehouse......right now we have republicans in control in the House and all the polls seem to blame congress more than than the president for our economic situation....it is the same old GOP game....stall and lay blame......never legislate.....usually their game is investigate........the president should quit negiotiating and use his executive order powers and move on.....what the heck... he will be re-elected....the GOP will fight among themselves to the end to find an extreme right winger which luckily has no chance in a nation wide election........but the can take pride in winning the deep south as usual......

Oh, and that "stall and lay blame", well at least the GOP (with Dem support) offered and passed a plan and Bill in the House...too bad Harry was afraid to even offer it up for discussion or a vote, but then again, compared to the Presidents plan and the Dem's plan...er, wait, that's right, neither of them have offered a plan...oh there is the bipartisan "Gang of 6", but how about the bipartisan "Gang of 234" that just passed in the House...

Okay, I'll play nice, but it does offend me when people shoot down a plan without having another one to at least consider or discuss...

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I'm with you on this one Bright.

I'm pretty sure America would not be looking brighter under John and good ol' Sarah's guidance.

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