Con's for the RV

[Chilliherb]

Hi Bloke's & Sheila's

Well I thought I might do something that would let us have some control rather than listen t o the garbage coming out of the Guru's mouths.

What I am proposing is two topics Pro's and Con's that I at this early stage ask the moderators to PIN.

If we are going to get any benefit out of this then I suggest we all adhere to a few basic conditions.

1 The Pro or Con comment you add should be reasonably short and contain if humanly possible Factual information.

2.Say it terms the average Joe can understand even though I know lots of Global economics are complex break it down in laymen s terms.

3.Please keep the Pro in the Pro's and the Con in the Con's

This can be a living doccument and idea's are welcome for it's improvement I will leave that up to Moderators to figure out.

Folks its a idea nothing more nothing less.

Hope you receive it in the positive spirit it is suggested

Cheers Chilli B)

[Chilliherb]

Well let don't fear stop you from putting something in as a Con folks, I thought democracy was about balanced debate. Well I will start this one off.

I would challenge the RV being done before Iraq can more than guarantee that the Dinars they have in circulation are met with the cashed in wealth of their oil production out and that I believe is another 5 years away. If they re-denominate then it is shorter, If they RI then I think you will see about a 14 -17% increase per year so long as the country stays stable and the people do not see another dictator take over, (and this is a possibility based on the US having to tend to its own domestic situation).

I think the biggest reason the Renomination is a real possibility is that it was Saddam (correct me if I am wrong ) added the tree zeros to keep the people from ripping his throat out earlier than the US invading. So it follows to get the currency back to a launching pad for international recognition the GOI would re-denominate and build it's wealth base if this happens I think the Dinar will climb into the +$3 mark and it will only be curtailed by the surrounding Arab states who if they see Iraq trying to suck all the best of the best into the country with currency value they will drop oil prices like a stone to keep it real.

I personally hope for the RI because that will keep the value of all of the notes and if stability set in then we can all take it to the bank.

If you disagree or have a Pro Opinion on the stuff above then put it in context in the Pro Topic, I really am trying to get some members input into this without the crap from the GURU's who are now annoying the s**t out of everyone.

Cheers Chilli B)

[MrFnHappy]

M2

[Chilliherb]

M2

M2 yeah that is helpful like I asked above give us more that a excited utterance " Please explain it

Chilli B)

[Gasketman]

The con for me is once the RV happens i wont be making my monthly trip On the 15th to wire off for more Dinar! I have been doing this for 3 years. My banker will miss me!

[MrFnHappy]

What Does M2 Mean?

A category within the money supply that includes M1 in addition to all time-related deposits, savings deposits, and non-institutional money-market funds.

Investopedia explains M2

M2 is a broader classification of money than M1. Economists use M2 when looking to quantify the amount of money in circulation and trying to explain different economic monetary conditions.

[Chilliherb]

Hey HAPPY

In laymens terms please HAPPY I have not just graduated from University I am worker with average to low grasp of having this tiger by the tail and it is scaring the s**t out of me.

Expain like I am a 10 year old

Cheer Chilli B)

[keepmwlknfny]

Hey HAPPY

In laymens terms please HAPPY I have not just graduated from University I am worker with average to low grasp of having this tiger by the tail and it is scaring the s**t out of me.

Expain like I am a 10 year old

Cheer Chilli

I believe what he is trying to say is that the money supply is too large for them to raise the value significantly....they dont have anything in place at this moment to back the currency at a higher rate....

[chara55]

Lets see the PRO is I REALLY could use the money , and the CON is IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET but it will

GOOO Rvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

GOD BLESS

[JREDinars]

I believe what he is trying to say is that the money supply is too large for them to raise the value significantly....they dont have anything in place at this moment to back the currency at a higher rate....

That's my Con as well. I guess I don't understand as much as some people. My husband is skeptical because of that exact question. HOW does a country just all the sudden say their currency is worth 10,100,1000,100000x? Who or what pays for that and what backs that amount of money? I am a believer in this because of the research I do and the teacher/friend I have, but I can't answer that question for my husband. I am versed in law, not economics. I don't quite "get" how that works. If someone could enlighten me here or privately, that would be awesome. I have searched the board with my questions but found no answers. So I guess that's the only real con I have--

That neither myself nor my husband understands what backs a sudden RV, etc.

Great and thought-provoking post. Thanks!

[keepmwlknfny]

That's my Con as well. I guess I don't understand as much as some people. My husband is skeptical because of that exact question. HOW does a country just all the sudden say their currency is worth 10,100,1000,100000x? Who or what pays for that and what backs that amount of money? I am a believer in this because of the research I do and the teacher/friend I have, but I can't answer that question for my husband. I am versed in law, not economics. I don't quite "get" how that works. If someone could enlighten me here or privately, that would be awesome. I have searched the board with my questions but found no answers. So I guess that's the only real con I have--

That neither myself nor my husband understands what backs a sudden RV, etc.

Great and thought-provoking post. Thanks!

Its cause no one has an answer for that....alot of people just throw random theories at it, thinking its the answer but there isent a true answer for it......its why this isent a guarantee

[Chilliherb]

That's my Con as well. I guess I don't understand as much as some people. My husband is skeptical because of that exact question. HOW does a country just all the sudden say their currency is worth 10,100,1000,100000x? Who or what pays for that and what backs that amount of money? I am a believer in this because of the research I do and the teacher/friend I have, but I can't answer that question for my husband. I am versed in law, not economics. I don't quite "get" how that works. If someone could enlighten me here or privately, that would be awesome. I have searched the board with my questions but found no answers. So I guess that's the only real con I have--

That neither myself nor my husband understands what backs a sudden RV, etc.

Great and thought-provoking post. Thanks!

Ok so what if the idea was from the outset that the US and others took on the amount of Dinar that every one is saying they have in their possesion and they use this stockpile up slowly as payment at the Rv'd rate to pay for oil in the future at a rate of outflow from the Iraq oilfields would that not meet the cost of of the Dinars in circulation from teh public sector which is only reported to be about 7-10 % of the 27 Trillion that they say is in circulation.

What do you guys think of that as a arguement. which I have posted ojn the Pro's for RV topic

Cheers Chilli B)

[YaTaHe]

Ok so what if the idea was from the outset that the US and others took on the amount of Dinar that every one is saying they have in their possesion and they use this stockpile up slowly as payment at the Rv'd rate to pay for oil in the future at a rate of outflow from the Iraq oilfields would that not meet the cost of of the Dinars in circulation from teh public sector which is only reported to be about 7-10 % of the 27 Trillion that they say is in circulation.

What do you guys think of that as a arguement. which I have posted ojn the Pro's for RV topic

Cheers Chilli B)

I have to say that this is probably one of the posts that actually made me think. I think that maaaybbeeyy, I know where you are going with this, but I am not quite sure. Can you re-phrase it please with puncuation?

[Chilliherb]

Ok with punctuation

Given that the US Govt and other Govt's have taken the lions share of the Dinar in circulation, does it not work that on a RV rate being released without an LOP, that those Governments would use the Dinar as Petro Dinars as opposed to Petro Dollars at the full RV'd rate.

This would allow for the small amount of private investors (us), 7-10% to be paid out at the RV value and those Dinars simply go into the Dinar Vaults for future use. When they are given over to the the GOI (large notes included) would that not be the opportunity for the GOI to hold the large notes for Global banking use and reissue the new small notes for internal use of the Iraqi people once the oil revenues are generated.

Cheers Chilli B)

Edited July 9, 2011 by Chilliherb

[YaTaHe]

Ok with punctuation

Given that the US Govt and other Govt's have taken the lions share of the Dinar in circulation, does it not work that on a RV rate being released without an LOP, that those Governments would use the Dinar as Petro Dinars as opposed to Petro Dollars at the full RV'd rate.

This would allow for the small amount of private investors (us), 7-10% to be paid out at the RV value and those Dinars simply go into the Dinar Vaults for future use. When they are given over to the the GOI (large notes included) would that not be the opportunity for the GOI to hold the large notes for Global banking use and reissue the new small notes for internal use of the Iraqi people once the oil revenues are generated.

Cheers Chilli B)

I like you..........I was thinking something similar, but I was thinking that this RV would be in country only until they had stimulated the economy enough to globally announce an RV rate at which time, they would put a cap on trade ins.

[20MillionDinar]

Ok with punctuation

Given that the US Govt and other Govt's have taken the lions share of the Dinar in circulation, does it not work that on a RV rate being released without an LOP, that those Governments would use the Dinar as Petro Dinars as opposed to Petro Dollars at the full RV'd rate.

This would allow for the small amount of private investors (us), 7-10% to be paid out at the RV value and those Dinars simply go into the Dinar Vaults for future use. When they are given over to the the GOI (large notes included) would that not be the opportunity for the GOI to hold the large notes for Global banking use and reissue the new small notes for internal use of the Iraqi people once the oil revenues are generated.

Cheers Chilli B)

Problem with this theory is it is still SPECULATION in itself. Nobody knows for sure how much (if any) Iraqi Dinars the US Treasury holds as well as other foreign governments...

I would feel much better if I found out for sure the U.S. Gov was holding 4 trillion+ Dinars!

[Chilliherb]

Problem with this theory is it is still SPECULATION in itself. Nobody knows for sure how much (if any) Iraqi Dinars the US Treasury holds as well as other foreign governments...

I would feel much better if I found out for sure the U.S. Gov was holding 4 trillion+ Dinars!

20Million, I acknowledge your concern and honestly can not say who has the bulk of the dinar but I have to assume if that much is circulating then the next question is has there really been enough time for the currency traders to have done that much in sales and I think this would have blown up a long time ago if there was not major Govt's holding large reserves of the stuff.

Chilli B)

[Chilliherb]

Twenty Million and others.

I do not say this link totally supports my view but if this has some legs and if billions of US dollars were traded at the current rate then that figure supports the fact that the US probably does hold Trillions in IQD.

Link:

http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/the-revaluation-of-the-iraqi-dinar/3145

Chilli B)

[keepmwlknfny]

Ok with punctuation

Given that the US Govt and other Govt's have taken the lions share of the Dinar in circulation, does it not work that on a RV rate being released without an LOP, that those Governments would use the Dinar as Petro Dinars as opposed to Petro Dollars at the full RV'd rate.

This would allow for the small amount of private investors (us), 7-10% to be paid out at the RV value and those Dinars simply go into the Dinar Vaults for future use. When they are given over to the the GOI (large notes included) would that not be the opportunity for the GOI to hold the large notes for Global banking use and reissue the new small notes for internal use of the Iraqi people once the oil revenues are generated.

Cheers Chilli

I dont think the biggest question is how they will pay us, but rather how the CBI will be bale to back the entire money supply of 59 trillion dinar, at a higher value then it is now...

Right now the CBI has 50 billion USD in reserves......if you multiply the 1170 rate, by the 50 billion, you actually come out almost exact to the numbers of the entire money supply of 59 trillion, which means they are backing the currency 100% right now.....

In order for the value of the dinar to go up, and to keep backing it 100%, the reserves would need to drastically go up!!

[en1gma]

I dont think the biggest question is how they will pay us, but rather how the CBI will be bale to back the entire money supply of 59 trillion dinar, at a higher value then it is now...

Right now the CBI has 50 billion USD in reserves......if you multiply the 1170 rate, by the 50 billion, you actually come out almost exact to the numbers of the entire money supply of 59 trillion, which means they are backing the currency 100% right now.....

In order for the value of the dinar to go up, and to keep backing it 100%, the reserves would need to drastically go up!!

I'm still learning, so by all means correct me if I'm wrong...

I was under the impression that the release of the UN hold on the DFI funds would cause that increase in reserves. Or is the US still dangling it above their heads? Lol

I like this topic's approach btw, thank you great idea.

[keepmwlknfny]

I'm still learning, so by all means correct me if I'm wrong...

I was under the impression that the release of the UN hold on the DFI funds would cause that increase in reserves. Or is the US still dangling it above their heads? Lol

I like this topic's approach btw, thank you great idea.

Well because of the fact that other countries would be looking to file claims now against Iraq, they have talked about putting alot of it in private banks here in the US, where it will still have protection....

Not only that, but since the funds are used for needs of the economy, to me its more like a flowing checking account....not so much a savings account where it stays and grows, so putting that in the CBI's foreign reserves to back the currency would make the value unstable if they are always taking money out....

I highly doubt any of it would be put into the foriegn reserves but it could possibly be spread through the banks in country......I guess we really wont know until they release any information about where its going....

[dinarck]

Ok so what if the idea was from the outset that the US and others took on the amount of Dinar that every one is saying they have in their possesion and they use this stockpile up slowly as payment at the Rv'd rate to pay for oil in the future at a rate of outflow from the Iraq oilfields would that not meet the cost of of the Dinars in circulation from teh public sector which is only reported to be about 7-10 % of the 27 Trillion that they say is in circulation.

What do you guys think of that as a arguement. which I have posted ojn the Pro's for RV topic

Cheers Chilli B)

Thanks for starting the debate Chilli.

Well lets think about that for a minute. So Iraq gives the US say 3 trillion dinar which the US keeps in the treasury. Then they RV to say 1 which means they gave the US 3 trillion USD. Then they turn around and give oil to the US for cheap just so that the US will pay them for the cheap oil with the 3 trillion that they originally gave them. I would have to say that makes no sense. At the same time the US gov collects our dinar which has RVed and gives us USD so that they can buy more cheap oil. Well why didn't they just use the USD that they gave us to buy the cheap oil?

I would say that all these questions that don't have answers are the cons.

[Chilliherb]

Hang on I think the thing here is that Iraq traded by exchange Dinars for US dollars initially. So the exchange is done and US now owns the dinars Iraq uses the dollars for whatever they needed then for and then revalues. The US now trades the Dinars as Petro dinars based on the new value and not only is this the way the US recoups the war debt but also is able to purchase oil at a rate that allows the profits of that oil to cash up Iraq as they are being paid with revalued currency. I have probably got this all screwed up but what do you think. To me its WIN WIN.

Chilli B)

[DinarThug]

Thanks for starting the debate Chilli.

Well lets think about that for a minute. So Iraq gives the US say 3 trillion dinar which the US keeps in the treasury. Then they RV to say 1 which means they gave the US 3 trillion USD.

I would say that all these questions that don't have answers are the cons.

Iraq did not just necessarily 'Give' the U.S. a quantity of Dinar. The U.S. has invested beaucoup bux into the infrastructure of Iraq. I realize that the amount of Dinar which the U.S. holds is open to speculation but it wasn't as if Uncle Sammy just found a wallet laying on the sidewalk.

I would say that the U.S. investment is a Pro and not a Con.

Thx for the OP Chilliherb and thx for ur post dinarck.

[jmw]

The M2 as stated by Happy and others is the main reason and there is no way around it without reducing the money supply....the other con is the multitude of challenges with a 100000% increase in the exchange value of Dinar...ie....how are prices reduced, pay adjusted, loans adjusted...etc...and all done instantly...it can only move gradually or their will be chaos.