The Dinar

[Ranger77]

I know that none of you know me from Adam, I have contacts in places none of you will ever have, all I will say is I have been a Bodyguard for the Royal Family of Jordan for many years, I still work closely with the Jordanian Embassy here in the States. That said I believe the people I know and have know for a very long time would not steer me wrong.

I sent an e-mail to one of my contacts asking if he could find out some information about the redonomination. I was suprised at his response.

He stated it just like the news report from radio free europe, he confirmed to me that in order to have both currencies in circulation at the same time your 25000 dinar would become a 25 dinar note, what you would be able to buy with the 25 dinar note you would be able to buy with the 25000 same buying equivalent.

These are people I trust with my life. I hope they are wrong.

LMAO!! who is your bodyguard? Kevin costner?

[jackdavis1364]

So Tim if you have these contacts why don't you provide some intel.

I for one will be anxiously awaiting Tim's intel.

[Kent]

I have read both sides and personally I believe they will announce either an RV or an RI especially if they are taken off of Ch. 7. on the 16th of this month.(a side note, they are holding a press conference on the 15th to discuss their 5 year plan which includes investments, etc. That should be an interesting press conference)

I don't think there will be a "lop", I just think that by recalling the large notes over a period of a year from their own citizens, they will be ridding themselves of the "3 zero bills" currently in circulation. As investors we will be exchanging our dinar after either an RV/RI for whatever that value will be, (and I am probably guessing here, but most people with their dinar won't be able to exchange it fast enough) thus those three zero notes will also be out of circulation. All of that having been said, I do enjoy reading the "other side" of the coin so to speak because it stimulates and excites this whole investment in a way I could not have anticipated, almost giving me a chance to peer into the souls of people and see what makes them tick. (Actually hearing both sides of this debate does that.) Some people are frantic, some are calm, some are calculating, some are patient, some are analytical, some are hopelessly emotional, some are hopefully emotional, some are dejected as if their last hopes are hanging from a thread. Some are matter of fact, some berate, some are peacemakers. As a writer, this gives me an invaluable source of people gazing without having to leave the comfort of my dining room table and cup of joe. I do hope it RV/RI's for everybody's sake so that we can all live out our dreams whatever they may be. However, I feel like none of us is going to lose on this because a profit is a profit no matter how small. And I for one have learned an incredible amount about currencies, and what makes governments tick, etc. which I wouldn't have if I had not invested in the dinar. You cannot put a price on knowledge and the understanding of that knowledge. In that we have all profited. At least I have. And rest assured, I will be able to use it the rest of my life for good and for gain, no matter which way this goes. God bless.

Keylime, we probably come pretty close to totally disagreeing about the likely outcome on the dinar, but I couldn't agree more about your observations about the whole discussion. Great post. Thanks.

[dinarcraze]

Is this why Adam said we will wish we had a warka account ?

[tabi]

"he confirmed to me that in order to have both currencies in circulation at the same time your 25000 dinar would become a 25 dinar note, what you would be able to buy with the 25 dinar note you would be able to buy with the 25000 same buying equivalent."

What you say is he confirmed that, for it to go down this way, he thinks the value will be.... What he hasn't confirmed with you is that WILL GO DOWN THIS WAY!!!

[Mongo]

Iraq will only do what the major powers of the world let them do, and nothing more or less. So do you think they will let Iraq LOP?

[brianlpn]

Even if that is the case, lets look at it. We spent 1000 plus on a million and get back 860,000, sure we dont get the multimillions some would like, including myself but hey, I'll trade 1000 for 860,000 anyday of the week! lol

[d-stach]

Yes because Iraq does not have a valuable currency yet. As not to anger the governments of the world Who says they will get the same deal as the people of the world. We already know they will get more....just how much more.

If they do this it hurts nobody but us ... we the people that gave them our money to start their new world. The people of Iraq and the governments of the world will be fine with it.

I still hope G.W. was right when he said that this war would pay for itself. Don`t think him and Vader got into this just to break even.

[Muhammad]

Iraq will only do what the major powers of the world let them do, and nothing more or less. So do you think they will let Iraq LOP?

Despite China is an economic opponent to the whole world, China may be the second nation standing next to the United States to protest against the unjustifiable lop policy of Iraq to exploit us all.

[gigi]

thanks, good post

[twestbrook]

I have read both sides and personally I believe they will announce either an RV or an RI especially if they are taken off of Ch. 7. on the 16th of this month.(a side note, they are holding a press conference on the 15th to discuss their 5 year plan which includes investments, etc. That should be an interesting press conference)

I don't think there will be a "lop", I just think that by recalling the large notes over a period of a year from their own citizens, they will be ridding themselves of the "3 zero bills" currently in circulation. As investors we will be exchanging our dinar after either an RV/RI for whatever that value will be, (and I am probably guessing here, but most people with their dinar won't be able to exchange it fast enough) thus those three zero notes will also be out of circulation. All of that having been said, I do enjoy reading the "other side" of the coin so to speak because it stimulates and excites this whole investment in a way I could not have anticipated, almost giving me a chance to peer into the souls of people and see what makes them tick. (Actually hearing both sides of this debate does that.) Some people are frantic, some are calm, some are calculating, some are patient, some are analytical, some are hopelessly emotional, some are hopefully emotional, some are dejected as if their last hopes are hanging from a thread. Some are matter of fact, some berate, some are peacemakers. As a writer, this gives me an invaluable source of people gazing without having to leave the comfort of my dining room table and cup of joe. I do hope it RV/RI's for everybody's sake so that we can all live out our dreams whatever they may be. However, I feel like none of us is going to lose on this because a profit is a profit no matter how small. And I for one have learned an incredible amount about currencies, and what makes governments tick, etc. which I wouldn't have if I had not invested in the dinar. You cannot put a price on knowledge and the understanding of that knowledge. In that we have all profited. At least I have. And rest assured, I will be able to use it the rest of my life for good and for gain, no matter which way this goes. God bless.

Beautifully written, keylime. My sentiments exactly...

[Kent]

Iraq will only do what the major powers of the world let them do, and nothing more or less. So do you think they will let Iraq LOP?

Mongo, I totally agree... and yes they would let them lop. In fact, I don't believe the major powers of the world would support a huge RV by loaning/advancing Iraq the money it would take to pay for one. A small one, perhaps. Think of it as if tomorrow you paid me $100 for my dime because you declared that it was worth $100. Lets say you made an offer to buy all dimes for $100. If you don't have the money to back that up, you have to find someone else that thinks a dime is worth the $100 you want to pay. How many "major powers" are going to back you in your leveraged purchase of dimes by loaning money? Admittedly, Iraq is going to grow drastically. In a post last night someone had a link to an article that said oil revenue from Iraq could grow over ten years from 1.5 or 2 mil barrels per day to 10 or 12 over a ten year period. I agree that is huge, I agree that Iraq will become the fastest growing economy on the globe, but even if they grow to become the largest oil producer in the world that would only put them at a GDP of $500 Billion (to become larger than Saudi Arabia). "Major Powers" whether they be foreign governments or currency markets will only go so far in loaning money. Iraq's currency value must have some basis in reason other than "I want mine to look like Kuwait". Their ability to look like Kuwait has a lot to do with how much money they have in circulation and that circulation includes all currency that must be revalued in the RV. That includes all currency held/owned by anyone other than the CBI (bank accounts, foreign governments, incl). An RV is an expansion of money supply and every dinar has to come from Iraq's current reserves or debt. I am sure others would loan them a lot. Double, tripple their money supply? Perhaps 5 times, but not 1,000-3,000 times. Even Adam seems to only think of a dime (100 times).

[spruills]

THis may answer some questions. http://www.theiraqidinar.com/iraqi-finance-denies-intention-to-delete-the-zeros-of-the-national-currency/

[keylime]

THis may answer some questions. http://www.theiraqidinar.com/iraqi-finance-denies-intention-to-delete-the-zeros-of-the-national-currency/

Well as I read this, it should disspell any arguments of a "LOP". No Lop. Now let's get on with the RI/RV.

[Kent]

Well as I read this, it should disspell any arguments of a "LOP". No Lop. Now let's get on with the RI/RV.

Very interesting. Thanks for the article sprullis. You should consider posting that as a news string. Personally, the way I read that it appears that the Ministry of Finance (top of article) disagrees with the CBI (bottom of article) on whether to do a lop. That moves us to a question of who pulls the switch. Personally, I think CBI is controlling things. That is who has controlled the rate and release of the currency. Still, though it sure seems like they would be on the same page and they obviously aren't. (And keylime, I would love to get on with an rv).

[keylime]

Very interesting. Thanks for the article sprullis. You should consider posting that as a news string. Personally, the way I read that it appears that the Ministry of Finance (top of article) disagrees with the CBI (bottom of article) on whether to do a lop. That moves us to a question of who pulls the switch. Personally, I think CBI is controlling things. That is who has controlled the rate and release of the currency. Still, though it sure seems like they would be on the same page and they obviously aren't. (And keylime, I would love to get on with an rv).

Kent you're a good man. I can see that even though we may look at the same facts differently, almost like to people opposite each other at an intersection, both seeing the same accident, but both having different perspectives as to what transpired. Same accident, two different points of view, and yet no reason to dislike each other because they are just innocent bystanders. In this case though, we are innocent bystanders with an investment as to how the accident turns out. Hehe. But still, I like you and your forthright, openminded demeanor. God Bless.

[Kent]

Kent you're a good man. I can see that even though we may look at the same facts differently, almost like to people opposite each other at an intersection, both seeing the same accident, but both having different perspectives as to what transpired. Same accident, two different points of view, and yet no reason to dislike each other because they are just innocent bystanders. In this case though, we are innocent bystanders with an investment as to how the accident turns out. Hehe. But still, I like you and your forthright, openminded demeanor. God Bless.

Bless you Key and I really hope you are right.

BTW, Another example of the different view of the wreck... look at this post http://dinarvets.com/forums/showthread.php?9287-Anyone-else-find-it-suspicious&p=62684 #126.

[newbie]

this is crazy thinking!!!! So someone who had 25,000 notes will be poorer because his 50 notes and 250 notes will be worth more????!!!! This makes absolutely NO sense. How will the people be able to know what to charge for services? for products?

If the 25K is phased out and they cash it in for smaller bills at 1170 then there is no problem. They will have a pocket full of bills......but suddenly they will be RVed and it will all make sense. Each merchant will revalue their services and products to what the market will bare.

[mike5961]

My God, do you people ever plan on letting this go. Well let me shed some light on this matter at hand. Here is how I see this: The people of Iraq are already broke because their money is worth nothing. They CBI have already said the new denoms and the large denoms will be used together untill the end of 2010 at the same value. They are going to remove the 0's by taking the large notes out of circulation period. There is no lop of the money in general. Its pretty simple for some because you cant just lop part of your currency and not all of it. Further more do you think that all of these countries would have bought trillions, and then some of the countries have even went as far as forgiving Iraq for all or most of what Iraq owed them. And what about Iraq's oil deals, and all the big companies wanting to invest money in Iraq. What about wanting to be a member of the WTO so they can import & export plus sell their stock right? Iraq wants to be able to play with the big boys again all around the world. You are looking at the one country in the world that has the ability to be the richest in five years or so. So they dont try to get the worlds attention by loping their money when the money has never really went down in value since they printed the large denoms in 2004. Last note and I rest my case, do you really think the UN and IMF would consider letting Iraq out of chapter 7 by starting with a LOP. How does this show the world any stability when it comes to their money please tell me. China forgives them for 80% of what they owe them and Iraq tells them oh by the way all the dinar you have is not worth what you thought it would be. Kuwait has invested billions of dollars that they had to help iraq's banks, and Iraq has not even paid them back for the war they caused. Do you think Kuwait would have invested money in a country that owes them and is going to LOP their currency now. Please just stop and read between the lines and use some common sense. There will be a great return on this investment for all of you real soon because Iraq has way to much at stake around the world, and they owe their own people some money, food, water, and electric. They cant do any of this without money that has some value to it. The big day is near for all that deserve this, and that is Iraq's people first, and then the rest of the world will reap the benefits of Iraq doing the right thing for all. Remember the strongest countries will rule the world, and Iraq knows what they have to offer the bigger countries its not just the oil trust me. This takes currency with a strong value and stability, and it shows weekness if they were to lop at anytime. This is just my opinion, but a smart one at that. Love Uncle Mike

[keylime]

gotch ya. I see where you are coming from, I just see it differently. BTW, how about the folks standing on the other two corners and their views? This can be a merry go round until it really happens. I hope I'm right too.

[keylime]

Me likey Uncle Mikey.

[keylime]

Hello,

I must respectfully disagree with this point of view based on Logic. If a tourist or someone visiting Iraq just exchanged a $1000usd for Dinar I am sure it is safe to assume that it will be in mostly big faces. Are you saying that if this happened 2-3 days after they arrived that the value is no longer what they exchanged for initially ? If I was in that situation someone would have to explain to me how all of a sudden my $1000 lost almost 80% of it's value. Also, someone is also going to have to explain to the USA why the dinars being held in new york have all of a sudden lost it's value.

A most excellent point. Here's to not vacationing in Iraq until after the RV/RI.

[Kent]

Hello,

I must respectfully disagree with this point of view based on Logic. If a tourist or someone visiting Iraq just exchanged a $1000usd for Dinar I am sure it is safe to assume that it will be in mostly big faces. Are you saying that if this happened 2-3 days after they arrived that the value is no longer what they exchanged for initially ? If I was in that situation someone would have to explain to me how all of a sudden my $1000 lost almost 80% of it's value. Also, someone is also going to have to explain to the USA why the dinars being held in new york have all of a sudden lost it's value.

kreativity, No loss in value. That is a misunderstanding of the concept. Again, check out the report from http://dinarvets.com/forums/showthread.php?7545-Debunking-the-myths-of-the-infamous-bunny-ear-(lop)&highlight=

Or look at http://www.gamji.com/article6000/NEWS7367.htm

or look at the brochure about how Venezuela did it: http://dinarvets.com/forums/showthread.php?9361-Redenomination-Explained

All confirm that redenomination is value neutral.

[Storm Trooper]

this is getting crazy

[Kent]

Hello,

-- An RV is an expansion of money supply and every dinar has to come from Iraq's current reserves or debt. I am sure others would loan them a lot. Double, tripple their money supply? Perhaps 5 times, but not 1,000-3,000 times. Even Adam seems to only think of a dime (100 times). --

I am going to respectfully disagree with this string of thought. An RV is not an expansion of the money supply period point blank, it is an increase in the value of the countries currency therefore increasing purchasing power. The smaller bills are already printed and have been accounted for so why are they going to print more money ? Just for the fun of it ? Because it RV'd ? The removal of all of the big bills will balance out everything ( so they won't have to worry about liquitdity becoming oversaturated ) when the new bills are introduced gradually into circulation. I said that to say that you have to look at it from a realistic point of view. The 25,000-10,000-5,000,1000 are the majority right now until the RV/RI but why ? because the currency value is so low there is no use in printing lower denoms. After the RV/RI there will be tremendous value increase and therefore a need for lower denoms ( not a need for a depreciaton in a note of currency, that would be an oxymoron...let's increase the value of currency and devalue the currency at the same time....so we end up worse off than before..ROFLMAO). So it wil be an exchange of bigger bills for lower bills if anything is to happen.

kreativity, let's slow this down a little. On an RV your 1Mil dinar that cost you $1,000 becomes worth (on a 1:1 RV) $1Mil dollars (that's what we all hope). Likewise, the 43Trillion Dinar M2 money supply (that is worth 43 billion US Dollars presently) of Iraq becomes 43Trillion Dollars. That means overnight, the money supply of the country increased by 1,000 times. That is a drastic increase in the money supply.

The big bills being removed do not decrease the money supply, because they are exchanged (except in the case of us private, foreign investors). All in-country exchanges are simply an exchange and all bank and foreign reserve account balances are converted.

Now, if the government of (fill in blank) is holding dinar in reserve account and it RV's Iraq owes the larger sum (increase of a factor of 1,000 in the example) overnight. That means Iraq owes them more money or increases their debt. An RV therefore increases Iraq government debt, but increases the buying power of all the non-Iraq government holders. It does not improve the buying power of the government of Iraq, it makes the government poorer. It does, however increase the wealth and power of people they must pay (you and me).

Whether there is an RV or a LOP, they will need lower denominations and will not need larger ones.