Rational Thinking and Negativity

[Legolas]

The following post was made by Jim1cor13 in the "Questions" forum in answer to a post by Nani asking why people who believe the dreaded "lop" is a possibility would still be here. His response was nearly perfect, and yet received very little attention or response - particularly by those who repeatedly complain about "perceived negativity." I thought it was worthy of posting in a topic by itself so that more people would have an opportunity to read and THINK about it.

Jim1cor13, on 25 June 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

Hi Nani?

Thank you for your thoughts and your question.

A simple answer to your curiosity is yes, I still hold IQD.

Yes, from researching both aspects of this speculation,

and from historical data, there is indeed a strong and even

likely prospect of a redenomination, at least based upon

this historical data, and how countries handled various

economic challenges in regards to their countries currency.

A point that needs to be understood that is often excluded from

a question or accusation such as this, is that most of us who

have purchased IQD did so originally based on the same amount

of often mis-information and fabricated details as any one else did.

Over time, some decided to research this speculation OUTSIDE of the

dinar related forums, mainly due to the constant lies that are spread

and are at the root cause of so much division on forums such as these,

and it was becoming too evident that those who originated these rumors

had ulterior motives. They smelled both money to be made, and they realized

how gullible we can ALL be at some point. Too many were taken advantage of

and some decided to look elsewhere for as much factual verifiable data as

is available.

In that process, many of us were beginning to see several issues that were

very troubling. In fact, many of these same issues are the very reason that

some respected financial analysts, reporters, etc., have concluded that the

IQD is/was a "scam". They have a very logical reason to think this, all they

would have had to do is visit a few dinar related forums, and read some of

the information that is posted, and it immediately raises more than a few red

flags. Why? Because anything that reaches the point of having to be supported

by rumor and fabricated details, is generally considered shaky, faulty, or an outright

"scam". At least this is also what history of such types of speculation has revealed.

The IQD speculation is NOT a "scam". What IS the "scam" is what this has been

made into and declared over time, that has often blindly been accepted as fact.

It has gone from the potential of possibly being another "Kuwait" style currency

gain of buying low and selling high, to Iraq some how being looked at or viewed

as being the "salvation of the worlds economies". Again, another reason so

many have proclaimed this as one of the biggest internet scams ever. I do not

hold that against them for such thinking due to the circus that his has become.

Please understand, and properly view the discussions regarding RD, etc., do not

come from a perspective of being "negative" as you and so many love to accuse. In

fact for a moment, forget about anything regarding a 'lop' which is not really appropriate

terminology, and consider the reason why even the attempt to understand it immediately

draws anger and accusations. It is simply this way because at one time or another, we ALL

bought into the hype, the frenzy and the rumors, and over time, much frustration settled in

due to constantly being disappointed, disgruntled, and plain upset that all the things the 'gurus'

had not just stated, but PROMISED had failed every single time to be of any value...other than

a definite boost to the sales of IQD. It is a classic example of catering to peoples greed, and

manipulating that greed by feeding it for the purpose of selling a currency.

Out of this same frustration, comes the anger pointed and directed at the WRONG people. It is not

the folks who decided to think for themselves that are the problem here, nor have those folks who

began to think for themselves do anything wrong. It is called being prudent, open to understanding both

sides, so one can decide for themselves what has value, and what does not. The anger issue comes from

anything that disagrees with ones belief, or mindset, and the error within that mindset is rooted in being told

something that may not have been the truth or may have been twisted to the point of outright lie.

Someone is going to have to take the brunt force of all the frustration, and those who have tried to share

the other side of this speculation are a wonderful target, because the information itself is viewed as being

a "threat" to their belief and what they have come to believe is truth. It really is not any simpler that this Nani.

You call it being 'negative' or 'negativity'. How is it possible to make this claim and direct it at a few who

are sincere in their motive of presenting the other side that no guru will address? How is it being 'negative'

to debunk and expose a lie with the intent of trying to HELP each other maybe to wake up and understand

that things may not work out as we had been told?

Would you agree that the true areas of 'negativity' are in those that refuse to speak the truth, that willingly

fabricate and lie in order to take advantage of someone emotionally and financially for years? How is it that

this one area alone is viewed as "positive", and when someone questions it with the desire to learn and

understand, then shares what they have learned be viewed as presenting 'negativity'? Do you see how utterly

twisted this kind of thinking has become? In my opinion, the most negative posts are the ones that continue

to lie and manipulate people. This is what appears to be acceptable and desired, and yet you accuse those

who have looked at both possibilities of this speculation as being the culprits of division and discord and being

'negative'? Is it positive to just tell someone those things they WANT to hear, instead of trying to be objective and maybe

assisting one of us to not potentially being deceived or taken advantage of by someones marketing tricks?

Instead of accusing those who research and have some balance in their perspective as being 'delusional', why not

rather we be honest and admit that the only delusional train of thought that exists here is the unwillingness to

consider anything other than what is spoon fed to the masses of IQD holders? Is not the continuation of daily and weekly

clinging to lies and sales tactics truly the delusional aspect of this speculation? But I assume that just the mention

of this possibility is also being 'negative'?

The accusations and train of thought you have presented appear at least to me, to be disingenuous at best and the

attempt to cause even more of a divide and chasm between members here by means of labels and false assumptions

at worst. I sincerely hope that is not the case. I tend to think that not all, but the majority of folks here are good people

who in fact desire to learn together with other members and not be categorized and disposed of via means of this

kind of thinking that you propose.

We are after all, in this speculation together, whether we agree on every point or not with each other, is it asking too

much that we learn to respect each others opinions, research, ideas, backgrounds without having to resort to personal

attacks, personal dislikes, and school play ground behavior along with the usual name calling and accusations that offer

nothing of value to this board other than to cause division that really does not exist other than to those who feel threatened?

Should not we all admit and maintain the fact that this is still nothing more than pure speculation, that there are not now, nor

have there ever been any guarantees with this? If we can accept this, and treat it as such, as we continue to try to the very best

of our abilities to learn together so we may be able to discern fact from fiction, truth from hype, I think we could be the most

informed and most content Iraqi dinar related forum on the internet. But if we continue down this path of pointing fingers at

those who have differing opinions, categorizing them into oblivion, accusing them of being 'negative' or 'delusional', refusing

to answer pinpoint and sincere questions with more than just the standard response based upon faulty information, then we

will not endure this speculation to the end.

Hopefully we will ALL be able to share in the potential rewards together, maybe even be pleasantly surprised at the overall

outcome without destroying each other in the process. If we can accomplish this as a group, then I would call that a very

positive outcome. If we can disregard the supposed 'intel' that keeps being spread here, and focus on what we can all

accomplish together by being informed and prepared, then we have already received something that money could never

buy. Anything in addition to this accomplishment will be icing on the cake

While many other forums are falling apart due to much of the above insanity, why can we not rise above the nonsense and

actually learn and work together and interact together without feeling threatened or without hiding behind a computer screen

to spew comments that would never be said in person, and that contribute nothing to this site. I personally think we CAN indeed

accomplish this, but not without leaving our preconceived notions and ego at the sign in prompt.

Just my opinion Nani?

Have a peaceful weekend

All my best!

Jim

---

I'm amazed and terribly disappointed that Jim's response to this thread hasn't received more than just a "WOW," although Dinarck had the correct reaction. What he so eloquently expressed was the absolute, indisputable truth, yet not a single "negativity basher" bothered to respond to it. That in itself is very telling.

The human brain is an amazing little pile of goo. Once it is successfully convinced of a particular concept, it is amazingly difficult to introduce a new and more logical one. This applies to many more subjects than just our Dinar investment. The gurus and pumpers have been unbelievably successful at what they do, and there's no denying it. They've been doing it for more than 5 years now, and despite the fact that there is overwhelming evidence readily available to prove beyond ANY doubt that they have been wrong, not 99%, but 100% of the time, people still defend them and still believe that "one of these days" they're going to be right. In virtually any other situation, if a person lies to you once, you're going to be angry, but you "might" give them a second chance. After the second time, their credibility would be reduced to zero. Yet here we are, after being lied to hundreds upon hundreds of times, STILL having to explain this "perceived negativity." In many cases, it's the SAME people lying to you hundreds of times. In others, it's NEW names providing the same information, but it is still the same nonsense.

Come on gang.....HOW MANY TIMES does this have to happen before reality flips that switch in your brain which allows you to begin to think rationally and do some honest evaluation of the evidence? It's not like these are "hit and run" incidents. The posts by these people are retained in the archives of nearly all of these websites, and by now there are literally THOUSANDS of them. Take the time to READ and analyze them instead of becoming so overcome by emotion, desperation or greed that you can't see your hand in front of your face. Stop allowing your thoughts to be manipulated. THINK and RESEARCH!! Be a part of the solution, not the problem.

The latest tool of the pumpers is the "CONFERENCE CALL." There have now been literally hundreds of them. Admittedly, the information put forward in these calls always "sounds" credible. But ask yourselves.......has it EVER ONCE been accurate? The answer is a resounding NO......it hasn't. So why on earth would you continue to believe a single word of what they have to say......and over and over and over again. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. To be critical and angry at those who attempt to point out the obvious is inexcusable, unless of course you are one of the pumpers and feel threatened by their rational explanations. It's long past time that everyone realize that ALL of the information, and ALL of the dates have been wrong. More importantly, these have not been isolated incidents. There are literally THOUSANDS of them now. How many more do there have to be before people get angry and say "ENOUGH!"

[Legolas]

Great post!

I would like to add that "internet radio shows" are also a "new tool" these people use and one that you want to be very very cautious with.....

Absolutely correct Slade....I missed that one. And by the way, I also neglected to say: AWESOME JOB Jim1cor13!

[goldengoose]

'Legolas',

Good morning!

Thank you for bringing this post to the forefront this morning. Although I am of the mindset that this venture will not "LOP" or RD, I can sincerely appreciate the message Jim is conveying. Jim, thank you for the well orchestrated and thought out delivery of your intentions and opinions.

Have a good day!

GG

[RVDinar4MyFamily]

Excellent post, from both of you.

Legolas, I am sure you have noticed as I have the last few days, the fact that some of us have had some very thought provoking discussions in regards to an RD, and I think little by little some people are coming around to the possibility of it happening.

Now, I am not saying that IS what will happen, and I am sure you agree with me that there is still the chance of this working out how we would like it to and we still cannot say for sure which way this will go.

[Poseidon]

I so convinced it will LOP now that I am out of the Dinar game. The super rich Marxist are not going to let us all become wealthy guys.

[Dalite]

Thanks for bringing Jim's excellent post back to the top.

As usual, both of you are spot on.

I have tried to make some of the same points in the past, but have pretty much given up on any discussion of a RD.

I have a post that addresses the Semantics of the L word, trying to find who first put it to use and said it will never happen.

I plan to try to post supporting information, with links, so folks can research for themselves.

Too much I in my response.

It's not about me.

Keep up the good work. Maybe discussion can return to the discussion areas,

[keepmwlknfny]

As always Jim and Legolas, great analysis of whats going on....seems we are usually on the same page!! I can only hope that the majority of the members will read this and actually think about what Jim is saying....take the time to understand it for what it is because its a great message that needs to be spread across this forum as well as others (although the others would def ban someone for speaking like this lol). Thanks Legolas for making this comment by Jim a thread in its own!!

[MrMiyagi]

Great post, gotta say I agree with pretty much the whole thing. One perspective I would put out there, and I think is a possible reason why those more "realistic" sounding posts are seen as negative, is sometimes the way in which the message is delivered. For example, when someone is being condescending about it, or when they jump on simply to say something like "not gonna happen!" or something pointless like "nuff said" (though I have to admit half the time I'm not even sure what someone means when they say that) without giving reasons or facts. In a way I think there are sort of two camps on the "realistic" side of the fence; the ones who do their research and present their opinion in an adult and informed manner, and those who seem to just like stirring the pot or feel the need to convey their message in a pretentious, sometimes even rude manner. It's a shame because one side is presenting a well thought out perspective while the other... well sometimes it's hard to really even define the intent of that side of the coin. The unfortunate part is I think people sometimes lump the two together which is neither fair nor accurate. Do I hold out hope for an RV? Yes. Am I humble enough to realize and admit when I'm dealing with things that are beyond my current knowledge and research? Yes. Can I therefore accept the fact that RV is only one possibility and things could just as easily take a completely different road? Absolutely, but that's why I made sure to NOT spend a painful amount on this so that I can hold onto my hope, yet not be crushed if it doesn't go my way. Either way, great post Jim1cor13, thanks for bringing it out Legolas.

[matlok12]

Legolas....thanks for re-posting Jim's response! I read it yesterday and it could not have been any better. It was so perfect that it COULDNT be answered. What can you say to it except.....amen! I dont understand why RV or RD is such a division between people. We need to understand that its all part of the whole picture, either outcome is possible, so why must there be division?? I look at this investment and all the outcomes and just try to read,learn, and make up my own mind. This site needs to be a learning/sharing tool that we all use in a positive learning experience. One's view over another shouldn't be looked at as negative or positive. This investment shouldn't divide people. The outcome will be what it is and no one negative or positive is going to change that.

[randalln]

There is no history that can compare to what is taking place in Iraq and most defiantly not( Turkey or Venezuela )they did not have Sanctions placed on them.They did it to there self.......

[Poseidon]

There is no history that can compare to what is taking place in Iraq and most defiantly not( Turkey or Venezuela )they did not have Sanctions placed on them.They did it to there self.......

Sorry man the gig is up they are going to lop. We break even but really loose because of dealer cost and spread.

[randalln]

Sorry man the gig is up they are going to lop. We break even but really loose because of dealer cost and spread.

I know for a fact their not going to lop (Oops i said to much)

[Francie26]

There is a fine line between expressing reality and tromping on the dreams of others with hobnail boots. And unfortunately, many self-proclaimed reality-pushers are so negative that they have no clue or simply don't care where that line is.

[Poseidon]

I know for a fact their not going to lop (Oops i said to much)

LMAO if you knew more than the rest of us you would not be at a dinar site. THEY WILL LOP! THE GIG IS UP!

[Legolas]

Thanks for the excellent responses thus far gang. And Keep is correct.....it should go to ALL of the forums, but probably wouldn't be tolerated in most of them. If you liked Jim's post, I would encourage you to go back to his original, (link below) and give him a "+" for it. I'm sure he's been slammed a few times in the past and could use some positive reinforcement. It truly was en excellent post, and expresses what many would like to say and might not be able to put into words.

[MrMiyagi]

LMAO if you knew more than the rest of us you would not be at a dinar site. THEY WILL LOP! THE GIG IS UP!

See this is what I mean. It's people like Poseidon that are giving rational, well spoken, respectful people like Jim1cor13 a bad name.

[randalln]

LMAO if you knew more than the rest of us you would not be at a dinar site. THEY WILL LOP! THE GIG IS UP!

I guess you did not know I invested in a bank in Iraq a month ago at 1.27 rate and thats the lowest it will go .

Im here trying to help you guys stay on corse but most of you are led around by the nose.

[Poseidon]

I know for a fact their not going to lop (Oops i said to much)

It's guys like randalln who claim to have inside info who make this invesment a joke. I see a lop on it way, but would love to be wrong. Everyone needs to be ready for it now cause when and if it does lop you will be prepared.

I guess you did not know I invested in a bank in Iraq a month ago at 1.27 rate and thats the lowest it will go .

Im here trying to help you guys stay on corse but most of you are led around by the nose.

so you gave them $1,000.00 and they said here is 1 million dinar worth $1.17 so your now a Millionaire good work my friend LOL!!!

Edited June 26, 2011 by Poseidon

[randalln]

And since we are at the end .My brother is the (Director of Technical Infrastructure ) for one of the big three . I guess its good to know what your talking about some times.

[keepmwlknfny]

I know for a fact their not going to lop (Oops i said to much)

Ok Mr.Wannabenewguruofthemonth......explain why and how.....and dont give us the old "well I cant tell you because of my secret intel" and the normal line of BS the gurus use

[Poseidon]

And since we are at the end .My brother is the (Director of Technical Infrastructure ) for one of the big three . I guess its good to know what your talking about some times.

Well let me say this if you are correct I will gladly come back look you up, and apologize in its own thread to you.

[Legolas]

Let's not lose site of the original intent and turn a good post into a "peeing" contest. The purpose is to encourage "rational" discussion of every position, and not simply boldly claim legitimacy of one or the other without providing supporting evidence and a reasonable explanation. Doing otherwise is an unproductive waste of time and effort and merely encourages dissent.

[MrMiyagi]

Ok Mr.Wannabenewguruofthemonth......explain why and how.....and dont give us the old "well I cant tell you because of my secret intel" and the normal line of BS the gurus use

I agree with you on that one keep! It looks (at least to me) like both randalln and poseidon are offering great examples of what is wrong with both schools of thought here on DV. It's irresponsible to make claims on this kind of site without something substantial to back it up. I'm not going to say that evidence for a lop isn't out there for all to see, but I have to question the motives of someone who comes on and seems antagonistic from the first post without giving any tangible food for thought. At the same time, any joe shmo can come on here and say his mothers husbands brothers nephew holds blah blah blah position at the CBI and he has proof of an RV, we've seen it so many times it's not even funny. It's all becoming very childish it seems.

Let's not lose site of the original intent and turn a good post into a "peeing" contest. The purpose is to encourage "rational" discussion of every position, and not simply boldly claim legitimacy of one or the other without providing supporting evidence and a reasonable explanation. Doing otherwise is an unproductive waste of time and effort and merely encourages dissent.

+ for you Legolas, that's what I'm talking about!

[randalln]

I agree with you on that one keep! It looks (at least to me) like both randalln and poseidon are offering great examples of what is wrong with both schools of thought here on DV. It's irresponsible to make claims on this kind of site without something substantial to back it up. I'm not going to say that evidence for a lop isn't out there for all to see, but I have to question the motives of someone who comes on and seems antagonistic from the first post without giving any tangible food for thought. At the same time, any joe shmo can come on here and say his mothers husbands brothers nephew holds blah blah blah position at the CBI and he has proof of an RV, we've seen it so many times it's not even funny. It's all becoming very childish it seems.

+ for you Legolas, that's what I'm talking about!

Remember the world (UN) took there wealth by placing restrictions on them.So now the World has to give it back. Regardless of what the rest of the people in the world want We took it .Now We have to reinstate it. At or above what it was. if We did not .What kind of help did we bring. None

And that is just the fact.

Thats why its not Turkey , or Venezuela They squandered there wealth to the point of RV. Iraq is a reinstatement to the world not a RV.

NO LOP NO LOP NO LOP

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/72034-something-to-remember/#ixzz1QOiCIXpd

[inheritance]

I know for a fact their not going to lop (Oops i said to much)

I would love to see your facts!

I guess you did not know I invested in a bank in Iraq a month ago at 1.27 rate and thats the lowest it will go .

Im here trying to help you guys stay on corse but most of you are led around by the nose.

Why were you trying to Sell yesterday at a $170,001 lose then?

And since we are at the end .My brother is the (Director of Technical Infrastructure ) for one of the big three . I guess its good to know what your talking about some times.

Big Three could you elaborate a bit?

Remember the world (UN) took there wealth by placing restrictions on them.So now the World has to give it back. Regardless of what the rest of the people in the world want We took it .Now We have to reinstate it. At or above what it was. if We did not .What kind of help did we bring. None

And that is just the fact.

Thats why its not Turkey , or Venezuela They squandered there wealth to the point of RV. Iraq is a reinstatement to the world not a RV.

NO LOP NO LOP NO LOP

Time will tell if we get a lop or not but your statement Does not really make sense to me. Could you explain a bit?

“ Thats why its not Turkey , or Venezuela They squandered there wealth to the point of RV. Iraq is a reinstatement to the world not a RV.”

Let's not lose site of the original intent and turn a good post into a "peeing" contest. The purpose is to encourage "rational" discussion of every position, and not simply boldly claim legitimacy of one or the other without providing supporting evidence and a reasonable explanation. Doing otherwise is an unproductive waste of time and effort and merely encourages dissent.

So you want rational conversation with links to it back up. Why would someone who got a $1.27 rate be selling his dinar yesterday at a lose of 170001.00?

Edited June 26, 2011 by inheritance