CBI decides to restructure the Iraqi currency

[Dalite]

What is your take on the 14 denoms sandyf is speaking of?

If they don't have the Kurdish language, they don't meet the Erbil Agree requirements, and would be a step backwards to release them.

[MrFnHappy]

If they don't have the Kurdish language, they don't meet the Erbil Agree requirements, and would be a step backwards to release them.

While I'm quite certain other denoms were printed with the original order, I tend to agree that without the Kurd language on them (mandated by the constitution) they won't be released........

[iqdheadlines]

They're going to redenominate by removing the large notes and replacing them with smaller notes. This is going to occur simultaneously with the RV. They aren't recalibrating the currency, or further devaluing it. How hard is this to understand?

you got my plus mate...........................wait for my new post tomorrow which will clear up this confused nonsense of opinions of the difference between "RI, RV, RD and RAISE THREE ZEROS".

[DmsC]

SO once again I have to ask the LOPSTERS What good does it do to devalue a currency even farther?

[jmw]

SO once again I have to ask the LOPSTERS What good does it do to devalue a currency even farther?

Because you aren't reducing the value...it is value neutral...it just reduces the money supply...hope that helps.

[FishmanTx]

to me the challenges are in how you look at the impact for Iraqi's...for example...some look at this as the Iraqi's will be wealthier and as a result prices will be lower, wages will be adjusted down, etc...but because the increase in value is only in an exchange rate...Iraqi's aren't actually any wealthier...they can only import things much cheaper...If I am a grocery store owner and I currently buy cokes from a distributor for 500 dinar and sell them for 1000 dinar...after it revalues and let's use 1 to 1 to make it simpler...my prices wouldn't come down until my distributor sold all of his stock and was able to replace it with a lower priced version...so even after a RV a store owner would continue to sell that coke for 1000 dinar (now worth 1000 US dollars) until he was able to purchase new ones at a lower price. So at what point would someones pay be reduced?...when it revalues or after some prices started to fall?...and the only prices that fall would be for imported items...What would change for us if the US dollar went up 1000% to the Euro?....would our pay be reduced?

The market pricing change of 3 decimal places will be mandatory across the board, not a choice of the marketer. When the rate changes, all market values will follow suit. This doesn't mean anyone loses money. The value is the same, percieved or actual, commiserate with the exchange rate. This is part of the "education" the people will get when the time comes. If a shopkeeper doesn't comply, nobody will buy his goods. Who would want to at those prices? The price a distributer pays is based on the exchange rate (Coke is an imported product) of his Dinar at the time. Your thinking is in a "quantity of tangible notes" mode and it should be the "quality" of the notes that's relevant.

JMO

[jmw]

The market pricing change of 3 decimal places will be mandatory across the board, not a choice of the marketer. When the rate changes, all market values will follow suit. This doesn't mean anyone loses money. The value is the same, percieved or actual, commiserate with the exchange rate. This is part of the "education" the people will get when the time comes. If a shopkeeper doesn't comply, nobody will buy his goods. Who would want to at those prices? The price a distributer pays is based on the exchange rate (Coke is an imported product) of his Dinar at the time. Your thinking is in a "quantity of tangible notes" mode and it should be the "quality" of the notes that's relevant.

JMO

That is correct with a re-denomination....not with a revalue...which is the point I was trying to make...might have done a poor job of it.

[debratzz]

I really really really really really really (should I continue? lol) want it to be true......and I had sooo much faith it in when I found that article last year....then after I detached my emotions from this investment my thinking got the best of me! Its the only piece of ANYTHING ever written that states there were 14 denoms printed...just started to get harder and harder to believe thats all......just a random piece out of no where and there is never any mention from any other source about it...I know it could all be part of the secret plan to RV, but you would think we could pick that piece of info from at least one other source....maybe even from US sources that helped print and install the current dinar....if it were the case for the RV, they surely wouldnt need to come out with any articles about making a brand new currency with the kurdish language and they wouldnt need to put out all the deleting the zeros articles either......

Thanks for the reply keepm!

[dog53]

interesting article....I'm sure this one can get spun many different ways!

I posted this same artical the night before this one and the mods shut it down said it was old news. HMMMMMMMMMMM

[FatMan]

Motorcity, Great explaination of what we may expect. Best I've heard thus far. Not sure what KISS philosopy is but seems rewarding. thanks

Haha "KISS" Means "Keep It Simple Stupid"... We used it at Wyo-tech while working on Motorcycles...

[FatMan]

Hmmm... The heat here in AZ Is Crazy today and my brian is warped from it right now along with the Pages and Pages of reading I have done today... So, PLEASE, Bear with me...

Redom is supposed to help with Inflation, Right? Amongst other things, But they are only at less than 7% inflation, Right?

ECONOMIC DATAInterest rates

CBI policy rate (valid from 1 Apr 2010) 6%

IQD 7 day deposit 4%

Primary credit facility 8%

Economic indicators

Core inflation (YoY): May 2011 6.31%

Inflation (YoY): May 2011 6.59%

M2 growth (YoY): Apr 2011 15.7%

For 2011F:

GDP - real growth rate 12.2%

Budget deficit/GDP 13.7%

Current account deficit/GDP 10.9%

Net foreign reserves

http://cbi.iq/

Is 7% All that Bad? What's the US Dollar at?

I can't read anymore or I'd go find this answer myself. I need to get away from this damn thing for a while... Haha Go for a hike or something.

WHAT A THREAD!!!! Wow! Thanks EVERYONE for sharing your Opinions as it helps me to form my own! So many Views.

Krem

[MrFnHappy]

Because you aren't reducing the value...it is value neutral...it just reduces the money supply...hope that helps.

I tried to get this point across earlier, many just don't understand the process.

[Ironwolf1974]

I tried to get this point across earlier, many just don't understand the process.

Yeah I noticed after getting through all 11 pages that this was stated many times.

Yet people still ask the same question...

If this is how its going to work, then basically we get our money back...

I might become a suicide bomber if they do that lol

[MrFnHappy]

We could have our very own "jihad"....

[FrankenSLI]

Because you aren't reducing the value...it is value neutral...it just reduces the money supply...hope that helps.

It does not actually reduce the money supply either. It just changes the face of the currency but will still take the same number of notes to make a purchase. Why waste millions of dollars to make the money apear more valuable but at the same time be exactly the same worth. It seems like a huge waste in the scheme of things IMO.

I might become a suicide bomber if they do that lol

Well you may not become rich but if you are muslim you get all those virgins.

[jmw]

It does not actually reduce the money supply either. It just changes the face of the currency but will still take the same number of notes to make a purchase. Why waste millions of dollars to make the money apear more valuable but at the same time be exactly the same worth. It seems like a huge waste in the scheme of things IMO.

Well you may not become rich but if you are muslim you get all those virgins.

Actually it does...if they have a m2 of 30 trillion and the redeem less 000's their m2 is now 30 billion..big difference and the main tendons they would do it.

[FishmanTx]

That is correct with a re-denomination....not with a revalue...which is the point I was trying to make...might have done a poor job of it.

On that point, I understand, but that's not what's going to happen

The one thing most are missing on, is what has already been said and the sequence of things to come. I'm beginning to think some here are either blind or in denial. They definitely don't seem to be reading all the material.

These things we know from all the articles over the last few weeks, listed in the sequence as indicated by the CBI, and their reps like Shabibi and Saleh, etc.

This is a multi-phase process according to Saleh and Shabs:

1. Lower denominations to be released into circulation.

2. "raising the zeroes" As indicated by the sequence and data is to be the removal of "3 zero notes" from circulation. Why? because Saleh and a couple of other reps have said this would happen BEFORE Issuing a new currency. (see quote below).

3. Revaluation (also part of "removing the zeroes? we'll see). Probably a low number to begin with and stepped upwards over time.

4. Redenomination. New currency to be issued with the Kurdish and Arabic on them.

QUOTE:

"The project of deleting zeroes is complete. It will be submitted to the central bank’s administration in the next session. Then, it will be passed to the ministerial council before presenting it to the Parliament for vote. The mechanisms of changing the currency will be gradual. It will be preceded by awareness campaigns for citizens”, the adviser of Iraqi Central Bank governor said.

“The new currency will be printed after deleting the zeroes and will include the Kurdish language in addition to the Arabic language. It will bear as well photos of Iraq’s civilizations and patrimony in addition to symbols of Iraqi intellectuals and figures”, Saleh noted."

Quote:

"Salih stressed that “the project to delete the zeros have been completed and will be presented to the management of the Central Bank of Iraq during its next meeting, and then will be submitted to the Council of Ministers to be presented to the House of Representatives for a vote,” pointing out that “the mechanisms of switching and changing the currency would gradually be preceded by awareness campaigns to citizens.”

He added that the benefit of “the new currency that will be printed after the deletion of zeros will contain the Kurdish language in addition to Arabic, as well as some pictures that refer to the heritage and civilization of Iraq and symbols of Iraqi scientists and intellectuals.”

Not just IMHO, this is straight from one of the architects of the process. This quote came from only one of 3 different sources who said the same thing. So the issue of the "3 zeroes" is a closed point as to their intention as far as I'm concerned.

Edited June 26, 2011 by FishmanTx

[jmw]

On that point, I understand, but that's not what's going to happen

The one thing most are missing on, is what has already been said and the sequence of things to come. I'm beginning to think some here are either blind or in denial. They definitely don't seem to be reading all the material.

These things we know from all the articles over the last few weeks, listed in the sequence as indicated by the CBI, and their reps like Shabibi and Saleh, etc.

This is a multi-phase process according to Saleh and Shabs:

1. Lower denominations to be released into circulation.

2. "raising the zeroes" As indicated by the sequence and data is to be the removal of "3 zero notes" from circulation. Why? because Saleh and a couple of other reps have said this would happen BEFORE Issuing a new currency. (see quote below).

3. Revaluation (also part of "removing the zeroes? we'll see). Probably a low number to begin with and stepped upwards over time.

4. Redenomination. New currency to be issued with the Kurdish and Arabic on them.

QUOTE:

"The project of deleting zeroes is complete. It will be submitted to the central bank’s administration in the next session. Then, it will be passed to the ministerial council before presenting it to the Parliament for vote. The mechanisms of changing the currency will be gradual. It will be preceded by awareness campaigns for citizens”, the adviser of Iraqi Central Bank governor said.

“The new currency will be printed after deleting the zeroes and will include the Kurdish language in addition to the Arabic language. It will bear as well photos of Iraq’s civilizations and patrimony in addition to symbols of Iraqi intellectuals and figures”, Saleh noted."

Quote:

"Salih stressed that “the project to delete the zeros have been completed and will be presented to the management of the Central Bank of Iraq during its next meeting, and then will be submitted to the Council of Ministers to be presented to the House of Representatives for a vote,” pointing out that “the mechanisms of switching and changing the currency would gradually be preceded by awareness campaigns to citizens.”

He added that the benefit of “the new currency that will be printed after the deletion of zeros will contain the Kurdish language in addition to Arabic, as well as some pictures that refer to the heritage and civilization of Iraq and symbols of Iraqi scientists and intellectuals.”

Not just IMHO, this is straight from one of the architects of the process. This quote came from only one of 3 different sources who said the same thing. So the issue of the "3 zeroes" is a closed point as to their intention as far as I'm concerned.

thanks for the post and I hope you're right as yours has a much better outcome than mine does....However, one of the things I can't seem to figure out and maybe you can help explain it...how are they only removing the 000's notes and what mechanism are they using to do that?...what are they exchanging for thes

thanks!

[Dalite]

thanks for the post and I hope you're right as yours has a much better outcome than mine does....However, one of the things I can't seem to figure out and maybe you can help explain it...how are they only removing the 000's notes and what mechanism are they using to do that?...what are they exchanging for thes

thanks!

Just a question for consideration.

What if all the talk about remove/raise/delete 3. Zeros just refers to a completed plan, which would be presented to Parliament??

We have not seen anything yet that outlines the flow.

After again reviewing the Venezuela paper, it's thoroughness and depth of planning, could the 3 zeros be a translation for the plan?

That seems the only way release of lower denoms could follow " the removal of the 3 zeros".

You can't RD without lower denoms. I can't see the benefit of. RV/RI, then a RD.

There is that one thing that we are still missing to gain clarity...

[FishmanTx]

There are several methods they could use though none fits best with the timeline. As for existing notes, in-country, they will have to be removed through attrition or forced exchange in the banks and the market places. A good chunk of it will be when foreign governments, companies, and individuals cash-in their holdings. A lot of larger notes are out of the country.

This may be what was meant when someone said "The people wouldn't have time to change..". A bit of a cryptic remark, considering what has to be done. It can't all be done in one shot so there will probably be some "confusion". If they mean new currency, that makes more sense. Possibly meaning the people won't have time to change old currency for new or large notes for small. As rates and prices will be done practically overnight, a new currency will have to follow much later because it will take a long time to print it up and be ready for distribution. Considering the perceived sense of "urgency", they wouldn't have time unless that has already been done, but I don't think so. Not from what's been said so far. Take a look at the old posts that gave the dates of the printing orders of the original post-saddam currency (they were discussing which notes were actually printed) then look at when distribution began. That should tell you how long it may take for a new currency to be ready.

There was also the mention of the "$100" note in a couple of articles. This could be a 100 IQD note that equals 100 USD (post rate change) for "easing large cash transactions". Pre-revaluation it wouldn't make any sense, nor would it make sense to create a larger note of the old currency that would equal $100 at current rates.

Things to Remember :

1. Shabs himself said in the video of the conference that their currency should equal or exceed the USD and they wanted to get back to the pre-war value.

2. These are a very proud people and a bit culturally arrogant. Everything they do will be based on what is feasible and in-line with their intent for the country (see #1). Motives!

3. All the Paris Club countries as well as the IMF and several other groups, have ENGINEERED AND ARE OVERSEEING all the changes (feasibility - see #2). Why would they forgive all this debt if they weren't going to make money off the changes somehow, whether in oil or "investment". Nothing is free!

4. In the USA's current condition, do you think the Fed would let all that potential tax revenue get away? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

"I'm just trying to illuminate the terrain we currently find ourselves deployed in. Are you on my frequency???"

Dale Dye - Casualties Of War

The situation as I see it....

Also.....

5. See #4: Remember OUR MOTIVES for helping. A foothold in the ME, right smack in the middle of everything. ...and Oil. If they "crawfish" on their agreements, we'll own them.

Just a question for consideration.

What if all the talk about remove/raise/delete 3. Zeros just refers to a completed plan, which would be presented to Parliament??

We have not seen anything yet that outlines the flow.

After again reviewing the Venezuela paper, it's thoroughness and depth of planning, could the 3 zeros be a translation for the plan?

That seems the only way release of lower denoms could follow " the removal of the 3 zeros".

You can't RD without lower denoms. I can't see the benefit of. RV/RI, then a RD.

There is that one thing that we are still missing to gain clarity...

The new currency after the change is required to be in compliance with the Erbil Agreements. The Kurdish language MUST be on the currency as well as Arabic. this will happen after all the dust has settled from the "change".

[jmw]

Just a question for consideration.

What if all the talk about remove/raise/delete 3. Zeros just refers to a completed plan, which would be presented to Parliament??

We have not seen anything yet that outlines the flow.

After again reviewing the Venezuela paper, it's thoroughness and depth of planning, could the 3 zeros be a translation for the plan?

That seems the only way release of lower denoms could follow " the removal of the 3 zeros".

You can't RD without lower denoms. I can't see the benefit of. RV/RI, then a RD.

There is that one thing that we are still missing to gain clarity...

If I understand what you are saying I think you are exactly right!....the completed plan is just that a plan..ie analysis that needs to be presented to Parliament and approved...and they will release the lower denoms ie new currency...after the "removal of the 3 zeros" plan is approved by Parliament...because you can't RD without lower denoms...since the lower denoms would be the new currency...I think it is more a translation issue that is making it more difficult to understand.

[Dalite]

If I understand what you are saying I think you are exactly right!....the completed plan is just that a plan..ie analysis that needs to be presented to Parliament and approved...and they will release the lower denoms ie new currency...after the "removal of the 3 zeros" plan is approved by Parliament...because you can't RD without lower denoms...since the lower denoms would be the new currency...I think it is more a translation issue that is making it more difficult to understand.

Well, it was the only thing I could see that would make the short term, long term goal chronological, and still logical.

Glad to bounce it off of you and see I wasn't crazy for thinking that.

I have held off from posting that theory for a while now...

[jmw]

There are several methods they could use though none fits best with the timeline. As for existing notes, in-country, they will have to be removed through attrition or forced exchange in the banks and the market places. A good chunk of it will be when foreign governments, companies, and individuals cash-in their holdings. A lot of larger notes are out of the country....

Would they use US dollars to do this?...they can't remove them through "attrition" as it has to be replaced with something of equal value.....

Things to Remember :

1. Shabs himself said in the video of the conference that their currency should equal or exceed the USD and they wanted to get back to the pre-war value.

I have not seen this....do you have a link by chance?

2. These are a very proud people and a bit culturally arrogant. Everything they do will be based on what is feasible and in-line with their intent for the country (see #1). Motives!

Not sure how this affects their ability to make their money worth more than it should be

3. All the Paris Club countries as well as the IMF and several other groups, have ENGINEERED AND ARE OVERSEEING all the changes (feasibility - see #2). Why would they forgive all this debt if they weren't going to make money off the changes somehow, whether in oil or "investment". Nothing is free!

Do you think the war torn country of Iraq has enough wealth to pay back all of these countries?...if they did they would have paid them to begin with and not needed to have their debt forgiven

4. In the USA's current condition, do you think the Fed would let all that potential tax revenue get away? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

See above....where does Iraq get all of this wealth?...and don't say oil...they won't leverage all of their future earnings so we can make money on it.

"I'm just trying to illuminate the terrain we currently find ourselves deployed in. Are you on my frequency???"

Dale Dye - Casualties Of War

The situation as I see it....

Also.....

5. See #4: Remember OUR MOTIVES for helping. A foothold in the ME, right smack in the middle of everything. ...and Oil. If they "crawfish" on their agreements, we'll own them.

The new currency after the change is required to be in compliance with the Erbil Agreements. The Kurdish language MUST be on the currency as well as Arabic. this will happen after all the dust has settled from the "change".