Pump and Dump

[AoK]

So, I have a friend who claims this is a "pump & dump scheme".

Here is what he wrote: "....this is a well known "pump and dump" scheme. You have not done due diligence in this matter, and I assure you that you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information. ***** and I are not interested in this in any way, shape, or form."

I'm in the process of collecting information to dispute that assertion. I was hoping more experienced investors could help me in a rebuttal. Thanks, beforehand, for any links and info. to augment my own argument.

Regards

[On_Reserve]

So, I have a friend who claims this is a "pump & dump scheme".

Here is what he wrote: "....this is a well known "pump and dump" scheme. You have not done due diligence in this matter, and I assure you that you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information. ***** and I are not interested in this in any way, shape, or form."

I'm in the process of collecting information to dispute that assertion. I was hoping more experienced investors could help me in a rebuttal. Thanks, beforehand, for any links and info. to augment my own argument.

Regards

I wouldn't bother. Why try to sell/convince him?

If it ever RV's that will be evidence enough. Trust me, you are wasting your time.

TS

I believe in the RV; I don't believe in the cult.

[DaveH]

Just make sure you say "I told you so" with a huge grin on your face.

[AoK]

I wouldn't bother. Why try to sell/convince him?

If it ever RV's that will be evidence enough. Trust me, you are wasting your time.

TS

I believe in the RV; I don't believe in the cult.

I hear you On_Reserve, I guess I just felt challenged, especially his statement that, "I've not done my due diligence" and wanted to show him what I do know.

One or the other of you will be right...until that is decided...why sweat it???

Slade, thanks, I was just irked by his saying, "...you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information...", when he doesn't even know half of what I know.

Just make sure you say "I told you so" with a huge grin on your face.

DaveH, yeah, there will be some satisfaction there, but I SO want for friends and family to be able to share in this opportunity. It would just be a happier event when those close to you are part of it, you know? But I realize the old adage is true, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Besides, I don't wanna have to support them! LOL

Thanks guys for the replies! Shalom! GO RV!!!!

[Jaxinjersey]

You've done your part by informing him (and others) as many of us have, almost out of a sense of obligation. If he wanted to be "convinced"... he'd have thanked you and asked for more information! Simply step away, remove your ego (from having to prove yourself), smile and move along. Just my suggestion.

[AoK]

You've done your part by informing him (and others) as many of us have, almost out of a sense of obligation. If he wanted to be "convinced"... he'd have thanked you and asked for more information! Simply step away, remove your ego (from having to prove yourself), smile and move along. Just my suggestion.

Jax, thank you! I realize now, more than anything, it was hurt pride, and I should just "remove [my] ego" from the equation. I've done what you described as my "sense of obligation" in at least informing those close to me of this opportunity. It's up to them to take it. We can't force it upon them. Thanks to all for helping me stay grounded! Shalom and Go RV!

[DinarMillionaire]

Who are you trying to convince him or yourself? I told my closes family members and best friends, they all bought some on my recommendation, except one. He contacted his "Financial advisor" who steered him away. After discussing it with him, he sent me the email he got from his financial advisor. From that point, I never discussed it with him again. Unknown to him, I bought an extra 100k to give to him when it RV's,. He is a good friend and I don't want him to miss out, but I'm not going to cause a good friendship to go bad by talking him into something he doesn't feel good about. Sometimes, I wonder if he's the smart one.

[Mortimer]

So, I have a friend who claims this is a "pump & dump scheme".

Here is what he wrote: "....this is a well known "pump and dump" scheme. You have not done due diligence in this matter, and I assure you that you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information. ***** and I are not interested in this in any way, shape, or form."

I'm in the process of collecting information to dispute that assertion. I was hoping more experienced investors could help me in a rebuttal. Thanks, beforehand, for any links and info. to augment my own argument.

Regards

Why even give a rebuttal. let them weep and cry when it is all over. Just be sure they know!!

One thing we all know.. you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time.

[AoK]

Who are you trying to convince him or yourself? I told my closes family members and best friends, they all bought some on my recommendation, except one. He contacted his "Financial advisor" who steered him away. After discussing it with him, he sent me the email he got from his financial advisor. From that point, I never discussed it with him again. Unknown to him, I bought an extra 100k to give to him when it RV's,. He is a good friend and I don't want him to miss out, but I'm not going to cause a good friendship to go bad by talking him into something he doesn't feel good about. Sometimes, I wonder if he's the smart one.

Thanks DM! You're a bigger man than me! I took offense to his statement, that I've, "...not done due diligence in this matter, and I assure you that you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information". That just really stung, you know? To assume such a thing and to believe I would try to influence friends and family in a "scam" just hurt my feelings, I have to admit. I'm human, what can I say.

Why even give a rebuttal. let them weep and cry when it is all over. Just be sure they know!!

One thing we all know.. you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time.

I believe you're right Mortimer. But you know how you want SO much for friends and loved ones to be a part of something good and potentially life-changing, but can't get them to see the possibilities? I can deal with the frustration of that, but to be insulted in addition....... Thanks for taking the time to respond! Shalom!

[LaGrange]

Who are you trying to convince him or yourself? I told my closes family members and best friends, they all bought some on my recommendation, except one. He contacted his "Financial advisor" who steered him away. After discussing it with him, he sent me the email he got from his financial advisor. From that point, I never discussed it with him again. Unknown to him, I bought an extra 100k to give to him when it RV's,. He is a good friend and I don't want him to miss out, but I'm not going to cause a good friendship to go bad by talking him into something he doesn't feel good about. Sometimes, I wonder if he's the smart one.

You're a good friend. I gave a million dinar to my sister's new husband. He's a nice guy and didn't know what he was getting himself into.

[frankc]

Why would you try to convince someone to invest? This is not a sure thing. As we all know this is a gamble with no guarantees and could go one of several directions. Even Scooter says so. You rolled the dice and bought some like the rest of us here and all you can do is sit back and wait to see if anything happens.

[MrFnHappy]

So, I have a friend who claims this is a "pump & dump scheme".

Here is what he wrote: "....this is a well known "pump and dump" scheme. You have not done due diligence in this matter, and I assure you that you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information. ***** and I are not interested in this in any way, shape, or form."

I'm in the process of collecting information to dispute that assertion. I was hoping more experienced investors could help me in a rebuttal. Thanks, beforehand, for any links and info. to augment my own argument.

Regards

I get tired of hearing the dinar is a "scam".

While you may, or may not make some serious money on this venture, the dinar is acknowledged by the IMF, UN, WB, etc, as "honest to God" money. This is a SPECULATION on what could happen to the dinar's value. There are no guarantees.

speculation;

Taking large risks, especially with respect to trying to predict the future; gambling, in the hopes of making quick, large gains.

Speculating and Investing

Outright speculation is neither illegal, immoral, nor (for most people) fattening to the pocketbook . . .There is intelligent speculation as there is intelligent investing. But there are many ways in which speculation may be unintelligent. Of these the foremost are: (1) speculating when you think you are investing; (2) speculating seriously instead of as a pastime, when you lack proper knowledge and skill for it; and (3) risking more money in speculation than you can afford to lose. . . everyone who buys a so-called "hot" common-stock issue, or makes a purchase in any way similar thereto, is either speculating or gambling. Speculation is always fascinating, and it can be a lot of fun while you are ahead of the game. If you want to try your luck, put aside a portion--the smaller the better--of your capital in a separate fund for this purpose. Never add more money to this account just because the market has gone up and profits are rolling in. (That's the time to think of taking money out of your speculative funds). Never mingle your speculative and investment operations in the same account, nor in any part of your thinking.

Edited June 6, 2011 by MrFnHappy

[AoK]

You're a good friend. I gave a million dinar to my sister's new husband. He's a nice guy and didn't know what he was getting himself into.

+1 LaGrange! HA! I wouldn't mind being your friend!

[On_Reserve]

I believe you're right Mortimer. But you know how you want SO much for friends and loved ones to be a part of something good and potentially life-changing, but can't get them to see the possibilities? I can deal with the frustration of that, but to be insulted in addition....... Thanks for taking the time to respond! Shalom!

AoK -- Yes, most are familiar with this feeling ... but, I learned many moons ago that you can't want it MORE for someone else than he does for himself (or she does for herself). Whether I'm giving someone (who's living hand-to-mouth) a job or simply passing a tip to a friend, this rule always applies.

And I (personally) wouldn't buy any IQD for someone else hoping to give it to them post-RV.

If this thing hits, we'll have plenty of opportunities to be charitable ... especially if it approaches a dollar. Therefore, I'll keep all of mine and make myself (and a portion of my financial resources) available to those in need and 'needy' causes.

That ought to do ...

TS

I believe in the RV; I don't believe in the cult.

[Networth]

Why do you have to try to convince him? He is probably right. There is no evidence to suggest this is anything but a highly speculative, illiquid, investment. There are only assumptions, misinformation, and a bunch of ridiculous (hourly) assertions made by unknown, anonymous, marketeers posing as knowlegable, connected, currency and culture experts. The first assumption you should always challenge in an investment is why you think you're right. Maybe this is the time to start that challenge.

[coleman619]

Why do you have to try to convince him? He is probably right. There is no evidence to suggest this is anything but a highly speculative, illiquid, investment. There are only assumptions, misinformation, and a bunch of ridiculous (hourly) assertions made by unknown, anonymous, marketeers posing as knowlegable, connected, currency and culture experts. The first assumption you should always challenge in an investment is why you think you're right. Maybe this is the time to start that challenge.

Couldn't have said it any better........too bad the vast majority here have no interest in an objective viewpoint. Just pass the Kool-aid....

[DinarMillionaire]

Thanks DM! You're a bigger man than me! I took offense to his statement, that I've, "...not done due diligence in this matter, and I assure you that you are mistaken in nearly all of your assumptions and information". That just really stung, you know? To assume such a thing and to believe I would try to influence friends and family in a "scam" just hurt my feelings, I have to admit. I'm human, what can I say.

AoK, That's the difference there. Had my friend been offensive about it, I probably would not have bought any for him. I then would just hope for the day I could show him, post RV, just how stupid I was and let him squirm.

[umbertino]

I wouldn't bother. Why try to sell/convince him?

If it ever RV's that will be evidence enough. Trust me, you are wasting your time.

TS

I believe in the RV; I don't believe in the cult.

Agreed.

[AoK]

Why do you have to try to convince him? He is probably right. There is no evidence to suggest this is anything but a highly speculative, illiquid, investment. There are only assumptions, misinformation, and a bunch of ridiculous (hourly) assertions made by unknown, anonymous, marketeers posing as knowlegable, connected, currency and culture experts. The first assumption you should always challenge in an investment is why you think you're right. Maybe this is the time to start that challenge.

Networth, thanks for the reply. Your mention of this being a "highly speculative...investment" is exactly what I'm trying to convince him of, if anything. If you recall from my original post the objection I'm attempting to overcome is that this is a "scam", which we know it is NOT. Now to address "illiquid":

il·liq·uid: adjective (of an asset) not readily convertible into cash; not liquid.

cf: http://dictionary.re...browse/illiquid

If, in truth, this investment was "illiquid", then we could not "readily convert" it into cash. Leaving aside that this is "cash" to begin with, albeit not the currency that you might be able to use in whatever country you currently reside (I don't want to assume you reside here in the U.S. since there are investors worldwide), there are in fact banks who will, if not sell you dinar, at least purchase dinar back from you - albeit not at the price at which you bought - but you can still convert it to cash. Additionally, there are on-line traders to whom you can sell dinar, not to mention private sellers as indicated by the "Buying & Selling Dinar" section on this site, as well as those on E-Bay & Craigslist. So, given the various outlets through which I can, in fact, exchange or sell my dinar, the term "illiquid" should not apply to this speculative investment. Whether you make a profit on that conversion is another matter altogether. Although there are those who have purchased earlier on in this investment have already made a profit, if only 200% in 7 yrs.

Couldn't have said it any better........too bad the vast majority here have no interest in an objective viewpoint. Just pass the Kool-aid....

Coleman619, I agree that there are those who fail to maintain an "objective viewpoint" regarding this investment. But wouldn't you also agree that maintaining an "objective viewpoint" would, at the very least, entail refraining from outright dismissing this investment as a "scam" based on a few internet claims; and moreover insulting someone, as having, "...not done due diligence in this matter", and assuring me, "....that [i'm] mistaken in nearly all of [my] assumptions and information", without even listening to all I have to say? I find it interesting, that after this message, my friend e-mails me back and says: "... if you do become a millionaire from this, ***** and I will in no way accept any gifts that resulted from your new found wealth...cash only lol."

I read here a willingness to share in the potential rewards but not in taking any risk.

Shalom

[Legolas]

When I got into this investment 3 years ago, I made the decision that I wouldn't tell ANYONE that I had purchased Dinar..... for two reasons: 1) I didn't want to look like an idiot if it turned out that I was wrong; and 2) I didn't want to risk a 40-60% loss of money belonging to friends and relatives. I purchased enough that I'd be able to help all of those who I cared about, and have remained absolutely silent since. At this point, I'm extremely happy that I made that decision.

Three years ago, I was all but assured that the RV was "imminent" and would be occurring at any moment. Obviously the Dinar has given an entirely new meaning to this word, and another new favorite......"soon." The friends who got me into the Dinar have been apologizing profusely of late. At the time of my purchase, I paid about $1,000 per million Dinars. This was roughly 20% over the current exchange rate. I figure that if the Dinars have to be exchanged back to U.S. Dollars with no RV, the banks will likely pay us somewhere between $650-$700 per million - roughly another 30-35% loss, for a total of 50-55%. Many investors in the past 6-8 months have paid significantly more for their Dinars, so the loss is potentially much higher if we don't see a revaluation.

I feel fairly certain that "something" will happen with the Dinar, but at this point it's looking more and more likely that what we'll see will be a re-denomination, hopefully followed by at least a small RV. That being said, the RV would have to increase the Dinar value by at least 50-55% in order for me to break even. Needless to say, after 3+ years of RV nearly every weekend, my confidence in that occurring is anything but strong. I know that's not what we want to hear, but we have to be prepared for that reality.

[AoK]

Legolas I appreciate your honesty and your experience. +1

[On_Reserve]

Networth, thanks for the reply. Your mention of this being a "highly speculative...investment" is exactly what I'm trying to convince him of, if anything. If you recall from my original post the objection I'm attempting to overcome is that this is a "scam", which we know it is NOT. Now to address "illiquid":

il·liq·uid: adjective (of an asset) not readily convertible into cash; not liquid.

cf: http://dictionary.re...browse/illiquid

If, in truth, this investment was "illiquid", then we could not "readily convert" it into cash. Leaving aside that this is "cash" to begin with, albeit not the currency that you might be able to use in whatever country you currently reside (I don't want to assume you reside here in the U.S. since there are investors worldwide), there are in fact banks who will, if not sell you dinar, at least purchase dinar back from you - albeit not at the price at which you bought - but you can still convert it to cash. Additionally, there are on-line traders to whom you can sell dinar, not to mention private sellers as indicated by the "Buying & Selling Dinar" section on this site, as well as those on E-Bay & Craigslist. So, given the various outlets through which I can, in fact, exchange or sell my dinar, the term "illiquid" should not apply to this speculative investment. Whether you make a profit on that conversion is another matter altogether. Although there are those who have purchased earlier on in this investment have already made a profit, if only 200% in 7 yrs.

Coleman619, I agree that there are those who fail to maintain an "objective viewpoint" regarding this investment. But wouldn't you also agree that maintaining an "objective viewpoint" would, at the very least, entail refraining from outright dismissing this investment as a "scam" based on a few internet claims; and moreover insulting someone, as having, "...not done due diligence in this matter", and assuring me, "....that [i'm] mistaken in nearly all of [my] assumptions and information", without even listening to all I have to say? I find it interesting, that after this message, my friend e-mails me back and says: "... if you do become a millionaire from this, ***** and I will in no way accept any gifts that resulted from your new found wealth...cash only lol."

I read here a willingness to share in the potential rewards but not in taking any risk.

Shalom

If your conversations are this reasoned and articulate, then you should definitely let go of any 'wounds' that you may have regarding an individual's rejection of your goodwill recommendations.

It's not you, Dude. It's them. Plain and simple.

That said -- this could still take a couple more ... years. Yes, years -- to the phenomenal results we're all hoping for.

TS

I believe in the RV; I don't believe in the cult.

[AoK]

If your conversations are this reasoned and articulate, then you should definitely let go of any 'wounds' that you may have regarding an individual's rejection of your goodwill recommendations.

It's not you, Dude. It's them. Plain and simple.

That said -- this could still take a couple more ... years. Yes, years -- to the phenomenal results we're all hoping for.

TS

I believe in the RV; I don't believe in the cult.

Thanks On_Reserve, I appreciate that. I hope you're wrong, though about this taking a couple of years, but I'm prepared for the long haul. Thanks again. +1 btw

[Networth]

Networth, thanks for the reply. Your mention of this being a "highly speculative...investment" is exactly what I'm trying to convince him of, if anything. If you recall from my original post the objection I'm attempting to overcome is that this is a "scam", which we know it is NOT. Now to address "illiquid":

il·liq·uid: adjective (of an asset) not readily convertible into cash; not liquid.

cf: http://dictionary.re...browse/illiquid

If, in truth, this investment was "illiquid", then we could not "readily convert" it into cash. Leaving aside that this is "cash" to begin with, albeit not the currency that you might be able to use in whatever country you currently reside (I don't want to assume you reside here in the U.S. since there are investors worldwide), there are in fact banks who will, if not sell you dinar, at least purchase dinar back from you - albeit not at the price at which you bought - but you can still convert it to cash. Additionally, there are on-line traders to whom you can sell dinar, not to mention private sellers as indicated by the "Buying & Selling Dinar" section on this site, as well as those on E-Bay & Craigslist. So, given the various outlets through which I can, in fact, exchange or sell my dinar, the term "illiquid" should not apply to this speculative investment. Whether you make a profit on that conversion is another matter altogether. Although there are those who have purchased earlier on in this investment have already made a profit, if only 200% in 7 yrs.

You don't have to convince me of anything. Illiquid isn't bad. It just is. My stocks are a liquid investment. I can push a button on my keyboard and exchange my stocks for cash within 1 second. I can write a check and draw that cash down for groceries 1 second later. I can literally exchange my stocks for groceries instantaneously. My house is an illiquid investment. My dinar is an illiquid investment. Arguing over the word "illiquid" is nothing but semantics. You're far too emotional about this. Who cares if anyone else invests in the dinar or whether the dinar is liquid? I'll tell you why. Most of us care because we want to justify our own behavior. That's part of the problem. We all suspect deep down this is going to be, at best, a break even venture. But we cant' admit that we may have made an emotional or poorly researched investment. It's hard to admit that we screwed up. So to compensate, we try to convince others that this is a GOOD investment. If they agree, then we feel good about it OURSELVES. We no longer feel like the only fool. Then, as more people invest in the dinar, we start to think it may really be a good deal. After all, there can't be that many fools, can there? It's a purely selfish exercise. Leave him alone. Let him do what he wants. If the dinar RVs for millions of dollars as everyone thinks, give him part of the windfall if you like him. Otherwise, why does it matter?

[jmw]

There is no rebuttal...because no one knows what the outcome will be...this is a very high risk investment...meaning it can be completely wiped out...this isn't an investment for someone who can't tolerate that kind of loss. The problem with dinar sites is everyone is so sure they are going to be millionaires they don't want to look at the simple things that complicate a significant RV.