Who looses if there is a LOP

[Seabee]

In case you have missed what I have said before, look at it like this, plus I know other sensible people out there tend to follow the same logic.

This is JMO as I believe will happen.

An RV will happen!!!!!!!!!!!!

It will come in on the low side maybe anywhere from 35. cents to about 85. cents.

At the same time you will see the CBI (Central Bank of Iraq) call in all of its notes with the 3 zeros. They may give everyone something like 30 to 60 days to turn in all these large notes and you will get the begining RV rates. If not turned in by the 60 day deadline ( an example) these large notes will only be worth 25, 10, & 1.

So lets take the following as an example. Supose you purchased 25k notes totaling 2 million Dinar straight out and bought no more.

Then Iraq has an intial RV starting at .45 cents, while at the same time calling back the large notes with a 60 day time period.

You will get $900,000.00 out the gate, but that is before taxes and spreads, let say 37% . This will then leave you with $567,000.00 (est) of cold hard cash if this scene plays out which I feel may happen.

Next after the deadline has passed the CBI may offer a deadline to get anything leftover of the large notes at the initial rate with the 3 zeros gone. This will net you $900.00 for your 2,000 Dinar which at one time was 2Million Dinar

Now if Iraq does like many of you are afraid they will, then they will have perpetuated the biggest finnacial fraud in the history of the world financial system, that is if they drop the 3 zeros and start out at .45 cents. They will have virttually robbed the people of the world for half of their investments on these 3 zero notes. This is all assuming that the CBI sold all Iraqi notes at an average cost of $900.00 per million. Now I don't have a calculator large enough to extrapelate out the numbers. However I will and I came up with $45 Billion that Iraq would rake in on 1 trillion Dinar.

The U.S. Gov and China hold the largest amount of Dinar, in the trillions. So who do you think is going to cause the biggest flap with 3 zeros dropped and an RV worth only .45 cents. You can bet it will be our government and China. We just don't know how many large notes with 3 zeros are out there ,but I would believe that there are at least 10 trillion minimum between the U.S. and china alone.

In the end, given the above situation and if there were an RV with 3 zeros dropped off and an offer of only .45 cents, then China and the U.S. would be left holding a big empty bag. They would already start off with a loss about $450,000,000,000.00 Billion, and is not to talk about all the other average investors from the same two countries that would loose out.

As you can see I am talking about big numbers and I am not an accountant. I just decided to take the time out today and sort this all out in my head logically and came up with this conclusion.

If there was to be a LOP as I described above then the Government of Iraq and its financial system would be looked upon as a bunch of theives with coruption in the economy and financial system. People of the world would loose confidence in Iraq and then what would you have. I really don't know because this situation would be to big to wrap my head around.

I will say IMO Iraq will have an RV and you will not loose with your large notes. Iraq will ask everyone to turnin the large note during the intial RV all be it will be a low rate.The low rate will allow Iraq to get all the large notes back. Some one made a huge mistake in 2003 when it was decided how many IQD should be printed up.

Please don't panic, it will all pay out and if you have the smaller notes, save them for any future RV as the Dinar will slowly appreciate over time. In the end you will still make good money on your investments although not what we thought we would make. Any initial RV will not start out any higher than .90 cents.

I have at least tried to rationalize all this and keep a positive spin situation. Stop and think about this as you read and do research of everything on the Internet. Look at the world money supply and where all the Dinars are at outside Iraq. Anything that deals with Iraq & kuwait you should all be reading about for the answers. Don't bash me, I may not be entirely correct but have done my research and see no reason to fear losing money from a LOP.

[TQueezy]

Make anywhere near what we thought? If it goes anywhere close to 1:1 we will make 1000 times what we put into it! That's unheard of in the financial sector. That's like winning the lottery, but the odds of winning the lottery are way lower.

[deenar]

I will take .90 any day!

[Oscar2]

Ain't going to happen ...so why ask?

[Seabee]

Make anywhere near what we thought? If it goes anywhere close to 1:1 we will make 1000 times what we put into it! That's unheard of in the financial sector. That's like winning the lottery, but the odds of winning the lottery are way lower.

1:1 would be great, but may I should have clarified the $2, 3.00 and even more that some people have been dreaming about. This will never happen out of the gate.

Ain't going to happen ...so why ask?

I was trying to put out a sensible explinate that some don't even understand.

[Dinar Buddy]

I am not willing to take anything less than my senator or other official feels is fair. Let's see this RV 3.22 and higher.

Go RV

[Seabee]

I am not willing to take anything less than my senator or other official feels is fair. Let's see this RV 3.22 and higher.

Go RV

I would like to see an RV of 3.22 also, but common sense dictates that there is not enough currency on the planet to pay off all holders of Dinar should they desire to cash out and that is if the U.S. have at least 12 Trillion between the gov and individuals. This meansbetween the U.S. Treasury & Iraq that they would have to come up with nearly $37 trillion. If Iraq has at least half this money then they wouldn't the impoversed nation that they are. Aslo, if the U.S. had half much for the banksto pay then we would be out of debt fairly quickly. Also consider that Iraq has nearly 27 trillion Dinar in print and circulation.

[skepticaldinar]

In case you have missed what I have said before, look at it like this, plus I know other sensible people out there tend to follow the same logic.

This is JMO as I believe will happen.

An RV will happen!!!!!!!!!!!!

It will come in on the low side maybe anywhere from 35. cents to about 85. cents.

At the same time you will see the CBI (Central Bank of Iraq) call in all of its notes with the 3 zeros. They may give everyone something like 30 to 60 days to turn in all these large notes and you will get the begining RV rates. If not turned in by the 60 day deadline ( an example) these large notes will only be worth 25, 10, & 1.

So lets take the following as an example. Supose you purchased 25k notes totaling 2 million Dinar straight out and bought no more.

Then Iraq has an intial RV starting at .45 cents, while at the same time calling back the large notes with a 60 day time period.

You will get $900,000.00 out the gate, but that is before taxes and spreads, let say 37% . This will then leave you with $567,000.00 (est) of cold hard cash if this scene plays out which I feel may happen.

Next after the deadline has passed the CBI may offer a deadline to get anything leftover of the large notes at the initial rate with the 3 zeros gone. This will net you $900.00 for your 2,000 Dinar which at one time was 2Million Dinar

Now if Iraq does like many of you are afraid they will, then they will have perpetuated the biggest finnacial fraud in the history of the world financial system, that is if they drop the 3 zeros and start out at .45 cents. They will have virttually robbed the people of the world for half of their investments on these 3 zero notes. This is all assuming that the CBI sold all Iraqi notes at an average cost of $900.00 per million. Now I don't have a calculator large enough to extrapelate out the numbers. However I will and I came up with $45 Billion that Iraq would rake in on 1 trillion Dinar.

The U.S. Gov and China hold the largest amount of Dinar, in the trillions. So who do you think is going to cause the biggest flap with 3 zeros dropped and an RV worth only .45 cents. You can bet it will be our government and China. We just don't know how many large notes with 3 zeros are out there ,but I would believe that there are at least 10 trillion minimum between the U.S. and china alone.

In the end, given the above situation and if there were an RV with 3 zeros dropped off and an offer of only .45 cents, then China and the U.S. would be left holding a big empty bag. They would already start off with a loss about $450,000,000,000.00 Billion, and is not to talk about all the other average investors from the same two countries that would loose out.

As you can see I am talking about big numbers and I am not an accountant. I just decided to take the time out today and sort this all out in my head logically and came up with this conclusion.

If there was to be a LOP as I described above then the Government of Iraq and its financial system would be looked upon as a bunch of theives with coruption in the economy and financial system. People of the world would loose confidence in Iraq and then what would you have. I really don't know because this situation would be to big to wrap my head around.

I will say IMO Iraq will have an RV and you will not loose with your large notes. Iraq will ask everyone to turnin the large note during the intial RV all be it will be a low rate.The low rate will allow Iraq to get all the large notes back. Some one made a huge mistake in 2003 when it was decided how many IQD should be printed up.

Please don't panic, it will all pay out and if you have the smaller notes, save them for any future RV as the Dinar will slowly appreciate over time. In the end you will still make good money on your investments although not what we thought we would make. Any initial RV will not start out any higher than .90 cents.

I have at least tried to rationalize all this and keep a positive spin situation. Stop and think about this as you read and do research of everything on the Internet. Look at the world money supply and where all the Dinars are at outside Iraq. Anything that deals with Iraq & kuwait you should all be reading about for the answers. Don't bash me, I may not be entirely correct but have done my research and see no reason to fear losing money from a LOP.

You did not purchase your dinar from the CBI. I doubt that you even purchased it from Iraq directly. They would not be commiting fraud on any logical or legal level.The dream was instilled in you by low grade currency traders out to make a killing and pumped by their salesmen.If they do redenom,then they actually gain purchasing power for international trade,which is what they need.You should not comapre Kuwait at all and it should not even be factored at this point.Kuwait was a well oiled machine that had been taken into downtime by a brief war compared to decades of a run down battle torn machine tattered with currency fraud.As far fetched investors,we will not invest in Iraq if we are burnt on this deal.However,we are not exactly the business dollars that are needed to sink money into conatracts that Iraq will be getting. I must ask, where do you learn that the US and China are heavily invested in the IQD? Or is that just a blind theory?

[R Veyron]

Thanks for post. I tend to agree with this threory as I just don't see how they can add any sort of value to the currency by a Lop. They would be selling themselves very short and not be capitalizing on their present opportunity to become a leading world economic powerhouse. Though we do not know exactly how all this will unfold and how we will exactly be able to benefit as well as the terms and conditions of an RV and how we will be able to "Cash In", something will happen in due time and it does seem like it would be a Revaluation.

Edited June 2, 2011 by R Veyron

[skepticaldinar]

Thanks for post. I tend to agree with this threory as I just don't see how they can add any sort of value to the currency by a Lop. They would be selling themselves very short and not be capitalizing on their present opportunity to become a leading world economic powerhouse. Though we do not know exactly how all this will unfold and how we will exactly be able to benefit as well as the terms and conditions of an RV and how we will be able to "Cash In", something will happen in due time and it does seem like it would be a Revaluation.

So you do not believe in an RD or an RV?

[LettheRVbegin]

Sorry folks but it will be close to 1:1 after the LOP

no we will not make the kabillions touted by the pump and fly crowd

Hey russian, let me ask you something. Are you in anyway affiliated with Shabibi or Mailiki? I'm sure you're not, so it's kind of funny how you bring your bullshit opinion on this forum and keep telling us that there is going to be a LOP. The only difference between you and us here on this forum is that you are in iraqi along with your iraqi buddies that are probably just normal civilians in iraq that have no connections with any important people. So how about you cut your bullshit and just leave this forum and rot in iraq and never come back to usa or russia or wherever the heck you came from.

You're just an immature boy that needs an attention because you probably didn't get any when you were a little boy. Does getting some attention on this forum make you feel good? Just cause you're in iraq, you feel like you are above us and feel superior? how sad... get a life you bum. Maybe some vodka down your throat will clear your russian brain up a little.

GO RV BABY!!

[R Veyron]

So you do not believe in an RD or an RV?

Sorry, should of been more clear. I do not feel it would lop but rv instead.

[dinarck]

First of all if they lop it will not be to .45. They would have no reason to come in below the USD post redenomination.

Hey russian, let me ask you something. Are you in anyway affiliated with Shabibi or Mailiki? I'm sure you're not, so it's kind of funny how you bring your bullshit opinion on this forum and keep telling us that there is going to be a LOP. The only difference between you and us here on this forum is that you are in iraqi along with your iraqi buddies that are probably just normal civilians in iraq that have no connections with any important people. So how about you cut your bullshit and just leave this forum and rot in iraq and never come back to usa or russia or wherever the heck you came from.

You're just an immature boy that needs an attention because you probably didn't get any when you were a little boy. Does getting some attention on this forum make you feel good? Just cause you're in iraq, you feel like you are above us and feel superior? how sad... get a life you bum. Maybe some vodka down your throat will clear your russian brain up a little.

GO RV BABY!!

This is the second time I have seen you post this. Why don't you bring some facts or at least your opinion to try and prove him wrong instead of with the childish name calling?

[wicked93gs]

Hey russian, let me ask you something. Are you in anyway affiliated with Shabibi or Mailiki? I'm sure you're not, so it's kind of funny how you bring your bullshit opinion on this forum and keep telling us that there is going to be a LOP. The only difference between you and us here on this forum is that you are in iraqi along with your iraqi buddies that are probably just normal civilians in iraq that have no connections with any important people. So how about you cut your bullshit and just leave this forum and rot in iraq and never come back to usa or russia or wherever the heck you came from.

You're just an immature boy that needs an attention because you probably didn't get any when you were a little boy. Does getting some attention on this forum make you feel good? Just cause you're in iraq, you feel like you are above us and feel superior? how sad... get a life you bum. Maybe some vodka down your throat will clear your russian brain up a little.

GO RV BABY!!

Are you getting a bit worked up because you are hearing the closest thing to real "intel" I have yet read on this forum...and that real information is not agreeing with your fantasyland ideas?

[The Machine]

Who looses if there is a LOP? ..... That all depends on the rate !

[keepmwlknfny]

No one loses in a RD...... Seabee, I know you mean well, and Im sure we would love things to play out like you said, but I fear you dont understand fully what happens in a RD and that you have simply been taking the word of some of the gurus instead of learning about it yourself.....There would be no fraud, they wouldnt be thieves and it doesnt look bad on a nation.....it actually raises the value and purchasing power of a currency, and shows improvement and stabillity because RD combat the after affects of hyperinflation and reduces an inflated money supply......unfortunately for us its a very viable option for them.....the best we can hope for is a slow gradual rise in value with no lop, while the bigger bills naturally come in since they will not be practical at some point for everyday purchases....

[Candinar]

Hey russian, let me ask you something. Are you in anyway affiliated with Shabibi or Mailiki? I'm sure you're not, so it's kind of funny how you bring your bullshit opinion on this forum and keep telling us that there is going to be a LOP. The only difference between you and us here on this forum is that you are in iraqi along with your iraqi buddies that are probably just normal civilians in iraq that have no connections with any important people. So how about you cut your bullshit and just leave this forum and rot in iraq and never come back to usa or russia or wherever the heck you came from.

You're just an immature boy that needs an attention because you probably didn't get any when you were a little boy. Does getting some attention on this forum make you feel good? Just cause you're in iraq, you feel like you are above us and feel superior? how sad... get a life you bum. Maybe some vodka down your throat will clear your russian brain up a little.

GO RV BABY!!

I tend to agree, looking at any real "intel" these LOP kids bring in to any questions without a shred of fact to back them up. Not sure why someone would bother to waste time hanging out in a forum where they "might" break even on their investment. Sounds like a sad life actually, but for some reason they think their level of intelligence is more than someone like Scooter who I believe has done more research about this process than ALL the little LOPPERS combined. So I will listen to people that have done research and aren't afraid to show their findings instead of throwing crap out like "well Turkey did it". So if these pathetic Loppers want to step up and DEBUNK all the work Scooter has laid out in front of their faces I am sure quite a few people in here would love to see them try. But they won't, because they can't.

[Soldier]

I'm at a lose to how people don't see how this can and most probably happen.

Step 1- Introduce new currency

Step 2 - Place a time period to retrieve old currency (1 month to 12 months)

Step 3 - Consider all old currency as toilet paper

Step 4 - Revalue

Its that simple and they keep telling everyone in almost every news clip coming out of Iraq that this is exactly what they are going to do. We investors do not lose one nickle. Iraq doesn't lose all reserves, they have a currency with buying power. How is this example so hard to understand?

Why would they just RV and make everyone millionaires and deplete their funds, place them into debt and regardless of their buying power they won't have the money to buy anything, more or less rebuild. This doesn't make any sense.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Soldier

[easyrider]

I'm at a lose to how people don't see how this can and most probably happen.

Step 1- Introduce new currency

Step 2 - Place a time period to retrieve old currency (1 month to 12 months)

Step 3 - Consider all old currency as toilet paper

Step 4 - Revalue

Its that simple and they keep telling everyone in almost every news clip coming out of Iraq that this is exactly what they are going to do. We investors do not lose one nickle. Iraq doesn't lose all reserves, they have a currency with buying power. How is this example so hard to understand?

Why would they just RV and make everyone millionaires and deplete their funds, place them into debt and regardless of their buying power they won't have the money to buy anything, more or less rebuild. This doesn't make any sense.

does Iraq make sense??????? hellllllllllllllllllllllllllll to the NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to put it bluntly no one knows whats gonna happen and the way we translate these articles well i can assure you something is missing.

also do you honestly think Iraq can't LOP in country they don't give a crap about outside investors because they know we will cash in look at our economy everyone is hurting. So we shall wait and see.

[umbertino]

Make anywhere near what we thought? If it goes anywhere close to 1:1 we will make 1000 times what we put into it! That's unheard of in the financial sector. That's like winning the lottery, but the odds of winning the lottery are way lower.

Yes, it would be 1.000 times our Capital allright in that case (1:1).... And if it rv's at $0.10 we'll have made 100 times our Investment. Still fantastic if you ask me. As long as there's no freakin' LOP obviously.

Edited June 2, 2011 by umbertino

[keepmwlknfny]

I tend to agree, looking at any real "intel" these LOP kids bring in to any questions without a shred of fact to back them up. Not sure why someone would bother to waste time hanging out in a forum where they "might" break even on their investment. Sounds like a sad life actually, but for some reason they think their level of intelligence is more than someone like Scooter who I believe has done more research about this process than ALL the little LOPPERS combined. So I will listen to people that have done research and aren't afraid to show their findings instead of throwing crap out like "well Turkey did it". So if these pathetic Loppers want to step up and DEBUNK all the work Scooter has laid out in front of their faces I am sure quite a few people in here would love to see them try. But they won't, because they can't.

Actually Candinar, If you take the majority of the "deleting the zeros" articles, you can put the pieces together as to what they mean from factual information.....some of us dont scream "well turkey did it" just because Turkey removed 6 zeros....its because in fact they have stated in those "deleting the zeros" articles that they are using what Turkey did as a template, as an outline to what they will do when Iraq removes the 3 zeros (thats only if in fact the plan is approved of course) And Turkey did not just remove bills from circulation or straight up RV.....they redenominated and raised the exchange rate....that you can look up and verify as fact....I dont want a LOP just as much as the next guy, but thats what these articles are saying....doesnt mean they will follow through with it cause its possible the plan is shot down when its sent through parliment

Now as far as Scooter goes, your right, we cant debunk what he is bringing to the table because alot of it is graphs and spreadsheets that are showing Iraqs budget numbers and what they are projecting as well as POSSIBLE rates they are using to find the REER (real equilibrium exchange rate) But even scooter knows it doesnt mean thats what the RV will be....it could be a set number they plan on reaching when things improve.....There is no doubt that Iraq cant support a higher rate, the million dollar question is HOW exactly they get there because there is more then one way of acheiving a higher value other then a straight RV.....

[FatMan]

Good Post. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

I see your point. But we can take all the piece's we have All found to this puzzle and put them together and we would still be wrong. Though your Logic Is probably Really close, We won't know until D-Day :-)

Krem

[Darin]

No one loses in a RD...... Seabee, I know you mean well, and Im sure we would love things to play out like you said, but I fear you dont understand fully what happens in a RD and that you have simply been taking the word of some of the gurus instead of learning about it yourself.....There would be no fraud, they wouldnt be thieves and it doesnt look bad on a nation.....it actually raises the value and purchasing power of a currency, and shows improvement and stabillity because RD combat the after affects of hyperinflation and reduces an inflated money supply......unfortunately for us its a very viable option for them.....the best we can hope for is a slow gradual rise in value with no lop, while the bigger bills naturally come in since they will not be practical at some point for everyday purchases....

In a sense, no body really loses $$$ on a R/D (With the exception of losses within trading via the spread such as mark-up, fees, etc).

However...... Opportunities are lost, potential is lost, and a stimulating of the country is lost.

Lets use a made-up scenario to explain using the US & call it TEST-US to help prevent confusion.

The Test-US has a high unemployment rates of roughly 50%

The Test-US has a currency value similar to Iraq.

The Test -S has potential to eventually become a striving economy, due to their resources (oil)

The Test -US lacks a private sector and job opportunities

So the numerical value sitting in the average American (From the Test-US) account is 1,000,000 US(Test-USD)

This value equals in reality $1,000 (Real-Value USD)

The Test-US has a stabilized economy with low inflation

The Test-US is looking to improve their economy, private sector, and reduce unemployment.

The Test-US has two options 1) R/D or 2) R/V

The R/D is the safe route and makes an exchange rate more appealing. Foreign investors do not lose money

However, the R/V is the potential economic boom the Test-US would need to become a striving economy.

How so? Imagine if the 1,000,000 Test-USD becomes equal to $1,000,000 Real-Value USD

The Test-US citizens now have money to spend and would look to improve their livelihoods such as: Buy a house, car, electronics, and other goods.

Foreign Investors would see an opportunity to take advantage of the Test-US peoples wealth and set-up shop in the Test-US country. They would supply goods, service, and even jobs to those that are unemployed. This puts them to work, gives them an on-going paycheck, while the foreign investors profits and the Test-US citizens are happy to work. This would also drive up the demand for the Test-USD as foreign investors would need to trade upon the new rates to conduct successful business within the country. As more jobs are created, more people work, which results in more spending. Poverty is decreased, quality of life is increased, and people may feel a sense of a peaceful environment.

Now, can we say that we can see this sort of "boom" upon a R/D? No, but it doesn't mean that the people will soon get to that same status in the long-term.... It would just be a slower process. A R/D would not necessarily create more jobs. It would not reduce poverty or increase the quality of life as a R/V would.

But, here is the argument of the R/V and delayed effect. As a R/V occurs, there would be that moment in time where people have wealth but no where to spend it. Imagine being a millionaire on an island with no markets, job opportunities, etc and only being able to survive by your own means. Imagine sharing that island with millions of others as well. Now if foreign investors were aware of the wealth of the people residing on the island, they may setup shop.. Put up companies such as Wal-Marts, restaurants, etc. Ship in goods to help build houses, etc. Well you see where I am going with this.

What are other benefits of the R/V? Well the economic "boom" would make democracy more appealing. Is that not the overall goal of the U.S.? Spreading democracy? The US Govt sure spends a lot of money to try to spread democracy. I think Obama even mentioned how even with our current debt, he would find the money somewhere to help supply newly formed democracy and spread democracy. "Hmmm" Things that make you go Hmmmmm, huh?

I'm not saying it is going to happen one way or another, I just see the benefits of the R/V over the R/D. The R/D is the low-risk safe route.....

[coldwarvet]

The fact is, NONE of us have the much desired "perfect information" to be able to predict this with any degree of accuracy.

When we're relying on news articles translated from another language by a computer program that MAY give us an accurate translation SOME OF THE TIME, or "boots on the ground" info that's provided by people who are separated from the decision makers by umpteen degrees, we can't know for sure about ANYTHING.

The one thing we DO know for sure is that there are pleny of opinions to go around, but none of them has any more value than the next, including mine. Just sayin'. GO RV!

[BBear]

Hey russian, let me ask you something. Are you in anyway affiliated with Shabibi or Mailiki? I'm sure you're not, so it's kind of funny how you bring your bullshit opinion on this forum and keep telling us that there is going to be a LOP. The only difference between you and us here on this forum is that you are in iraqi along with your iraqi buddies that are probably just normal civilians in iraq that have no connections with any important people. So how about you cut your bullshit and just leave this forum and rot in iraq and never come back to usa or russia or wherever the heck you came from.

You're just an immature boy that needs an attention because you probably didn't get any when you were a little boy. Does getting some attention on this forum make you feel good? Just cause you're in iraq, you feel like you are above us and feel superior? how sad... get a life you bum. Maybe some vodka down your throat will clear your russian brain up a little.

GO RV BABY!!

There is no reason to bash Russian here, let me ask you something letthervbegin. will you please give me links to where the CBI or government plan a strait-up RV at 3+??? because there is all kind of talk by the Iraqi government and CBI about raising the 3 zeros. And you don't have to be affiliated with Shabibi or Maikiki to get this information. There needs to be some civility on these forums. people should not get bashed for having an opinion, especially when there IS information out there that backs that opinion up. we should look at everything that could possibly happen. there are many forks in the road here, I for one refuse to have tunnel vision toward one single outcome, let alone be so rude as to BASH and name call other members who don't share my objective or perspective. This investment is taking alot out of people, we should not add to the dismay by being jerks to one another.