Rebuttal to Ennorste by HopefulTxn

[nointel]

* April 22nd, 2011 02:58 pm ·

Rebuttal to Ennorste

Seems a post of mine made it to Ennorste and his rebuttal was posted on another site’s site. I have since send DD a rebuttal of my own, however I am not expecting it to be posted as it is still in disagreement with Ennorste’s statements of the reduction of 000 notes.

Below is the email that I sent to DD on this subject:

DD,

I noticed that Ennorste completely by-passed answering the question put towards

him. Ennorste’s statements claim that the CBI has been removing the 000 notes

from circulation over a period of time and adding them to the ‘electronic’ dinar.

However simply looking at the CBI financials, available at:

http://www.cbi.iq/documents/key%20financial.xls , anyone can see that his claims

are not supported by their financial data – which is current to February 2011.

“Currency Outside Banks” and that which is located in the bank vaults IS NOT

‘electronic’ dinar. That 24+ trillion dinar figure is the physical currency that has been

issued by the CBI and is circulating in the hands of the Iraqi people and ourselves.

When added to the cash in bank vaults, this figure is what represents the 27+ trillion

dinar being referenced, which is a direct contradiction of his statements of a huge

reduction in physical currency by removal of 000 notes. This is also supported by the

LOI that was recently sent to the IMF on page 20, Table 5 (“currency issued”).

All that has been requested of Ennorste is something other than translated ‘arabish’

articles, which are constantly contradicted by other articles and subject to biased

interpretation, to substantiate what he keeps claiming as a fact. If it’s a fact, then

show the evidence of such – it’s a simple solution to end the debates of the figures.

IMO, he is simply trying to avoid answering the question by insinuating that a person

has to have a degree in economics to understand the figures in an Excel file. IMO, it

is a thinly veiled excuse for not answering the reason for the contradiction between his

statements and what anyone can see for themselves on the CBI website or in the LOI.

Regards,

HopefulTxn

[Bambino3]

You no what, nointel, whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant. You took an intelligent and analytical look and replied with alacrity and backed it up with logic. Now, let's face it, in view of all these analyses and conjectures, we have clue none as to what will go down, for in spite of all logic, things are beyond comprehension when put into the hands of meagre men. Good job, whatever your view and whatever the results.

[breault]

Nointel - That was outstanding, job well done. Right on! Love the way you handled that, we should all be a little bit more like that in our approach!!! Way to go.

[Legolas]

HopefulTxn's post reflects the same figures that many of us here have been posting for many months now. Only the gurus and pumpers are claiming that huge quantities of Dinars have been taken out of circulation. CBI's own figures, and those posted on the IMF site still show close to 27 Trillion Dinars in circulation, meaning that a $3 RV would instantly increase that amount to $81Trillion Dollars, and a $1 RV would obviously become $27 Trillion Dollars. Either would appear virtually impossible, since they would exceed the monetary supply of the entire world.

[War Eagle]

The CBI could very easily be taking the 3 zeros out of circulation,but leaving them in the M2

[billio0]

Hello Folks,

I have resisted long enough making a comment on this issue, and all those that talk about a LOP.

It matters little to me what the money supply in Iraq happens to be. I am not an economist, and have no plans to become one. In my understanding of this investment, it is NOT conditioned upon what Iraq currently has in its coffers, but what it has in the ground; specifically oil and gas, and any other valuable hard assets. These become the collateral for the worldwide benefit of the re-valuation of their currency, which I assume those who visit this site have purchased, and hold in their possession.

To try and figure out just how much the IQD is worth based upon what is in circulation is pointless to me. To also think that those countries and large investors who know far more than we do about this thing would sit still for even a moment to have Iraq LOP off the value of their holdings just so we little guys can be denied a windfall profit is absurd in the very least. We are like the flea on the elephant's butt. We get to go along for the ride whether they like it or not. Sure, they will and have tried to make things difficult for us, and also tried to discourage us to bail out early, but I for one ain't buyin' it for even a moment.

I am determined to see this thing through to the end, and hopefully you are too.

Thanks to those who agree, and I apologize to the resident bean counters in the house if this rains on their parade!

[hoosier1470]

Alot of people talk about how Iraq can cover all of this money when people start cashing in. I think thats it has been made very clear that only a small percent is going to have to be paid out at one time, and the profits thats CBI will make from projected oil production, and many other sources is more than enough to cover this! It was proven recently that in reality, Iraq could indeed cover an RV as high as 8-12...thought very unlikely to happen. I have just about as much info as anyone as to what the new rate will be, but I do think it very possible to see an RI north of 3. Personally I am happy with any profits...but I must say that I do not believe that they would goi through all they have to bring the value of the dinar out at anything less than equal with the USD! So I dont think for a minute that all the talk of 10..20, - 85 is even in their minds. Shabbs is a very smart man, and knows what he is doing when it comes to money...therefore...I feel very comfortable looking towards a rate of 1 - 3 +....just my informed opinion! Best wishes to all!

Hello Folks,

I have resisted long enough making a comment on this issue, and all those that talk about a LOP.

It matters little to me what the money supply in Iraq happens to be. I am not an economist, and have no plans to become one. In my understanding of this investment, it is NOT conditioned upon what Iraq currently has in its coffers, but what it has in the ground; specifically oil and gas, and any other valuable hard assets. These become the collateral for the worldwide benefit of the re-valuation of their currency, which I assume those who visit this site have purchased, and hold in their possession.

To try and figure out just how much the IQD is worth based upon what is in circulation is pointless to me. To also think that those countries and large investors who know far more than we do about this thing would sit still for even a moment to have Iraq LOP off the value of their holdings just so we little guys can be denied a windfall profit is absurd in the very least. We are like the flea on the elephant's butt. We get to go along for the ride whether they like it or not. Sure, they will and have tried to make things difficult for us, and also tried to discourage us to bail out early, but I for one ain't buyin' it for even a moment.

I am determined to see this thing through to the end, and hopefully you are too.

Thanks to those who agree, and I apologize to the resident bean counters in the house if this rains on their parade!

Im in total agreement with your line of thinking....its not the money they hold, but the money they are walking on! Thanks for the post!

[HopefulTxn]

HopefulTxn's post reflects the same figures that many of us here have been posting for many months now. Only the gurus and pumpers are claiming that huge quantities of Dinars have been taken out of circulation. CBI's own figures, and those posted on the IMF site still show close to 27 Trillion Dinars in circulation, meaning that a $3 RV would instantly increase that amount to $81Trillion Dollars, and a $1 RV would obviously become $27 Trillion Dollars. Either would appear virtually impossible, since they would exceed the monetary supply of the entire world.

You are right, these numbers have been stated repeatedly - and unfortunately some attempt to twist them to fit a scenario that they have created but is not actually supported by the available data...

My original post in this scenario was a response where Ennorste was attempting to discredit another dinar speculator that questioned his numbers. So he took my response and tried to do the same thing... I didn't care for the arrogance that his post seemed to have, so I wrote the text that was posted above... His response to the original 'naysayer' as he put it, and the one to me seemed to show he has issues with any that dare challenge his statements...

The CBI could very easily be taking the 3 zeros out of circulation,but leaving them in the M2

Reduction of M1 or M2 values is not the point of this post... The point is that claims were made that the physical currency base was being reduced by massive amounts, yet there is no support of that stance available in the financial data available from the CBI or through the financial data posted through the IMF...

[AK47]

Hello Folks,

I have resisted long enough making a comment on this issue, and all those that talk about a LOP.

It matters little to me what the money supply in Iraq happens to be. I am not an economist, and have no plans to become one. In my understanding of this investment, it is NOT conditioned upon what Iraq currently has in its coffers, but what it has in the ground; specifically oil and gas, and any other valuable hard assets. These become the collateral for the worldwide benefit of the re-valuation of their currency, which I assume those who visit this site have purchased, and hold in their possession.

To try and figure out just how much the IQD is worth based upon what is in circulation is pointless to me. To also think that those countries and large investors who know far more than we do about this thing would sit still for even a moment to have Iraq LOP off the value of their holdings just so we little guys can be denied a windfall profit is absurd in the very least. We are like the flea on the elephant's butt. We get to go along for the ride whether they like it or not. Sure, they will and have tried to make things difficult for us, and also tried to discourage us to bail out early, but I for one ain't buyin' it for even a moment.

I am determined to see this thing through to the end, and hopefully you are too.

Thanks to those who agree, and I apologize to the resident bean counters in the house if this rains on their parade!

Hope and faith (backed up with facts) is what makes the world go round...Go RV!

Alot of people talk about how Iraq can cover all of this money when people start cashing in. I think thats it has been made very clear that only a small percent is going to have to be paid out at one time, and the profits thats CBI will make from projected oil production, and many other sources is more than enough to cover this! It was proven recently that in reality, Iraq could indeed cover an RV as high as 8-12...thought very unlikely to happen. I have just about as much info as anyone as to what the new rate will be, but I do think it very possible to see an RI north of 3. Personally I am happy with any profits...but I must say that I do not believe that they would goi through all they have to bring the value of the dinar out at anything less than equal with the USD! So I dont think for a minute that all the talk of 10..20, - 85 is even in their minds. Shabbs is a very smart man, and knows what he is doing when it comes to money...therefore...I feel very comfortable looking towards a rate of 1 - 3 +....just my informed opinion! Best wishes to all!

Im in total agreement with your line of thinking....its not the money they hold, but the money they are walking on! Thanks for the post!

They might have the resources to back up that high of an RV...but they also have the greed and stubborness to hold out as long as possible. Hope that they don't though!

[lechesuerte]

You never know, it might just be the deal that was struck to begin with is the only thing that matters.....although until proven otherwise, I am in the low but hopeful camp. One thing is for sure the U.S., China and a few others will get theirs. Hopefully we get ours!!!!

[Butifldrm]

This article was posted by K98nights May of 2010. Adam cited the article in Dinar Speculation. Now the keywords here are 70% of the excess liquidity. Since May of last year the CBI has decreased the amount of Dinar in circulation ( in country), to the point it has caused an increase in inflation and problems in the market place. Iraq's economic indicators look good, except inflation is between 5.52% and 5.91%. This is much higher than a year ago. The good news is a 12% increase in GDP. If Iraq lops, they will be sent back light years financially, in my opinion. Who will invest? It would be in the best interest of Iraq to keep the value of the Dinar stable for years until they could afford to revalue rather than lop.

Iraq announces the withdrawal of 70 percent of the excess liquidity

Read more:

[capt.cliff]

I do not find it unusual at all that stated numbers of assets whether real or electronic ever balance what is published or percieved by anyone---want to try an expieciment---ask the US tresuary exactly how muxh GOLD, SILVER, precious metals are in out vaults to help back up the value of our dollar!---you WILL GET ANSWER that it is a security issue and can not be divulged---meanwhile they keep printing fiat money and deluting the valve of the Pyhiscal reverses---the OIl , nat gas they own in Iraq is thier backing ---I wouldn't lose sleep about there being no value to thier future currency or how to pay for the RV/RI-better worry about where ours is coming from!

capt cliff

[coldwarvet]

billio0 makes a great point about the influence of the Iraqi oil reserves (and their natural gas, AND their agricultural capability!) as a major factor impacting the pending RV. While the financial traditionalists (AKA "Realists") want to force this discussion back to strictly a balance sheet exercise, the facts are that:

1. None of us on this forum know for sure what considerations they are using in their calculations.

2. None of us know whether or not the Iraqi RV is the first step toward an asset-based global financial system

3. None of us know whether the news media reports quoting Dr. Saleh are accurate or not, and what exactly Dr. Shabibi meant in his press conference.

Our opinions are just like our input to this investment: SPECULATION. While I'm grateful to all of you who contribute to these threads, I ask that you return that gratitude by respecting those whose views differ from yours. Thanks. GO RV!

[nointel]

You no what, nointel, whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant. You took an intelligent and analytical look and replied with alacrity and backed it up with logic. Now, let's face it, in view of all these analyses and conjectures, we have clue none as to what will go down, for in spite of all logic, things are beyond comprehension when put into the hands of meagre men. Good job, whatever your view and whatever the results.

post is from someone else not me. i found it elsewhere and only posted it.