Winning the Hearts and Minds.

[shiFT_yourworld]

Found this article.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-kill-team-20110327

absolutely disgusting. It's too bad that the individual crimes of our own go unnoticed in times of war and conflict.

[investorman]

Shift....come on, RS giving balanced reporting?? I don"t think so. Maybe they should also talk about the atrocities the Afgans have committed against their own.

[BanG]

Not only that Shift you have no idea WHY, WHAT, WHEN or WHERE these supposedly atrocities took place. I'm in NO WAY CONDONING MURDER what I'm suggesting obviously is mental illness. Some of these guys have done 7 thats right SEVEN tours in combat, the human mind can only manage so much blood and gore and loss of life. As a war vet I can tell you yes these things do happen (VERY RARELY) and all you can do is give them help and punish their actions. No one man is perfect. All the same though events like this are very SAD. My thoughts go out to those family's involved and I pray that the Average American looks at this with EYE's WIDE OPEN HERE. You cannot just blame the soldiers. JMO. Peace.

[shiFT_yourworld]

I'm not really sure why I'm being attacked for posting an article.

I didn't have any opinion about it I just saw it and posted it. Are we that ignorant to think that this kind of stuff doesn't happen?, or worse yet when it does happen, we just bash the messenger because the news apparently discredits or puts a lack of confidence in our military to uphold justice and right and wrong?

Edited April 3, 2011 by shiFT_yourworld

[shiFT_yourworld]

Not only that Shift you have no idea WHY, WHAT, WHEN or WHERE these supposedly atrocities took place. I'm in NO WAY CONDONING MURDER what I'm suggesting obviously is mental illness. Some of these guys have done 7 thats right SEVEN tours in combat, the human mind can only manage so much blood and gore and loss of life. As a war vet I can tell you yes these things do happen (VERY RARELY) and all you can do is give them help and punish their actions. No one man is perfect. All the same though events like this are very SAD. My thoughts go out to those family's involved and I pray that the Average American looks at this with EYE's WIDE OPEN HERE. You cannot just blame the soldiers. JMO. Peace.

well said bang, totally understandable and I agree with you.

[1rustycoin]

“absolutely disgusting. It's too bad that the individual crimes of our own go unnoticed in times of war and conflict”.

“I'm not really sure why I'm being attacked for posting an article”.

“I didn't have any opinion about it I just saw it and posted it. Are we that ignorant to think that this kind of stuff doesn't happen?, or worse yet when it does happen, we just bash the messenger because the news apparently discredits or puts a lack of confidence in our military to uphold justice and right and wrong?”

This post has been edited by shiFT_yourworld: Today, 11:42 AM

shiFT

It’s the way you said “absolutely disgusting”. Have you ever been in active duty? Have you ever been in the military?

[dog53]

Hey I live a hour and a 1/2 from Detroit and I can assure you that you will find more murderers just in the city of Detroit then you will find in all of our armed forces put together. This was a isolated incident. It happens. Could be like BanG says to much time in the zone. Or they were psychotic before they even joined. Not bashing just expressing my opinion

[DgreenFSU66]

Its war. So what. Have you read Von Clausewitz? These are the things that happen in war if you are to be an effective fighting force. DONT SEND OUR BOYS OFF TO WAR IF YOU CANT HANDLE WARFARE!!!! There is no "clean" war. War is man at his most primordial. In order to win, you must be able to destroy all in your path and kill without mercy, no emotions, just doing your job. Its not personal, its war. Thats why we have no business in these liberal conflicts that pose ZERO danger to the USA. We have done our soliders a huge diservice. In the Art of War, Sun Tzu writes, that no country has ever benefited through a long drawn out protracted war. I want my soilders to be killers, but it must be for the right reasons. When you attack us we should wipe our enemies off the face of the earth. man, woman, and child. But this is just my opinion, and all the tree huggers in the oval office and the pentagon wont allow us to achieve victory, because according to Obama, its not about winning. Then what is this about. support our troops, war is hell indeed.

[shiFT_yourworld]

“absolutely disgusting. It's too bad that the individual crimes of our own go unnoticed in times of war and conflict”.

“I'm not really sure why I'm being attacked for posting an article”.

“I didn't have any opinion about it I just saw it and posted it. Are we that ignorant to think that this kind of stuff doesn't happen?, or worse yet when it does happen, we just bash the messenger because the news apparently discredits or puts a lack of confidence in our military to uphold justice and right and wrong?”

This post has been edited by shiFT_yourworld: Today, 11:42 AM

shiFT

It’s the way you said “absolutely disgusting”. Have you ever been in active duty? Have you ever been in the military?

First off to answer your question. No I have not. But I do feel the need to ask you this question.

Does being in the service or not change the fact that this atrocity is horrifying? Am I supposed to feel bad for these soldiers who committed these war crimes(if you can call them that) and chalk it up to the stress of war?. The answer is ABSOLUTELY not. I'm not sure if you actually read the article that was posted or saw the pictures of them displaying civilian bodies as "kills" you wouldn't be defending their honor( they have none).

Hey I live a hour and a 1/2 from Detroit and I can assure you that you will find more murderers just in the city of Detroit then you will find in all of our armed forces put together. This was a isolated incident. It happens. Could be like BanG says to much time in the zone. Or they were psychotic before they even joined. Not bashing just expressing my opinion

I realize that there are many murders daily in detroit and abroad(this is EXPECTED, usually in impoverished areas where drugs and violence are daily occurances), but I think it has a bigger effect when those who are responsible for upholding freedom throughout the world are caught in the light for their horrific actions. People uphold the military SO high, and its not that they shouldn't most come from families that have been in the service for a few generations, and its all that they know, it was bred into them. Yes this is specific example of a group of pyschotic individuals acting out of whatever motivations they have for commiting such horrible acts. But what concerns me most is the military's first action upon hearing the news, Ignore, Ignore, Ignore. Attempt to hide, Hiding failed, attempt to blame a small group when obviously it was a much bigger problem with mulitple NCO's and military higher-ups knowing about it and or trying to bury it before it leaked just like the Abu Guraib pictures.

I am in NO way trying to disrespect anyone in the military or the people who lost their lives abroad, but to actually think that the " I'm going to kill me some towel heads "mentality" doesn't exist in the military is pure ignorance.

I realize your not bashing, and were just having a conversation. I'm not bashing anyone either just having a healthy talk about a topic that most will avoid.

Edited April 3, 2011 by shiFT_yourworld

[shiFT_yourworld]

Its war. So what. Have you read Von Clausewitz? These are the things that happen in war if you are to be an effective fighting force. DONT SEND OUR BOYS OFF TO WAR IF YOU CANT HANDLE WARFARE!!!! There is no "clean" war. War is man at his most primordial. In order to win, you must be able to destroy all in your path and kill without mercy, no emotions, just doing your job. Its not personal, its war. Thats why we have no business in these liberal conflicts that pose ZERO danger to the USA. We have done our soliders a huge diservice. In the Art of War, Sun Tzu writes, that no country has ever benefited through a long drawn out protracted war. I want my soilders to be killers, but it must be for the right reasons. When you attack us we should wipe our enemies off the face of the earth. man, woman, and child. But this is just my opinion, and all the tree huggers in the oval office and the pentagon wont allow us to achieve victory, because according to Obama, its not about winning. Then what is this about. support our troops, war is hell indeed.

War implies TWO army's fighting against each other. this isn't war this is flat out killing for fun. Your references to Sun Tzu and Von Clausewitz were correct. however completely UN-APPLICABLE to what is going on in this thread. Afganistan is not at WAR. There are insurgencies within the country, yes. But faking combatants to kill and maim civilians for trophies and bragging rights is not just "doing the job".

"When you attack us we should wipe our enemies off the face of the earth. man, woman, and child. But this is just my opinion and all the tree huggers in the oval office and the pentagon wont allow us to achieve victory"

I actually pity you and your potential offspring. Let me know when you evolve some thumbs. Those "tree huggers" you refer to are the people capable of rational thought that don't support flat out murder and genocide of entire populations. I really have nothing more to say to you. Your idiocy disgusts me.

[dog53]

First off to answer your question. No I have not. But I do feel the need to ask you this question.

Does being in the service or not change the fact that this atrocity is horrifying? Am I supposed to feel bad for these soldiers who committed these war crimes(if you can call them that) and chalk it up to the stress of war?. The answer is ABSOLUTELY not. I'm not sure if you actually read the article that was posted or saw the pictures of them displaying civilian bodies as "kills" you wouldn't be defending their honor( they have none).

I realize that there are many murders daily in detroit and abroad(this is EXPECTED, usually in impoverished areas where drugs and violence are daily occurances), but I think it has a bigger effect when those who are responsible for upholding freedom throughout the world are caught in the light for their horrific actions. People uphold the military SO high, and its not that they shouldn't most come from families that have been in the service for a few generations, and its all that they know, it was bred into them. Yes this is specific example of a group of pyschotic individuals acting out of whatever motivations they have for commiting such horrible acts. But what concerns me most is the military's first action upon hearing the news, Ignore, Ignore, Ignore. Attempt to hide, Hiding failed, attempt to blame a small group when obviously it was a much bigger problem with mulitple NCO's and military higher-ups knowing about it and or trying to bury it before it leaked just like the Abu Guraib pictures.

I am in NO way trying to disrespect anyone in the military or the people who lost their lives abroad, but to actually think that the " I'm going to kill me some towel heads "mentality" doesn't exist in the military is pure ignorance.

I realize your not bashing, and were just having a conversation. I'm not bashing anyone either just having a healthy talk about a topic that most will avoid.

Of course the " I`m going to kill me some towel heads mentality" exist. Its what keeps you alive dude. The army teaches you to hate the enemy ,to want to kill them. It`s part of being a soldier. Their not saying go out and kill the innocent sure. But having the type of mind set that anybody who even looks like their going to make a play is going to get whacked has certainly brought more then one soldier home back to their familys. If your going to be a warrior you have to have a warriors state of mind. Killing is your job

[shiFT_yourworld]

Of course the " I`m going to kill me some towel heads mentality" exist. Its what keeps you alive dude. The army teaches you to hate the enemy ,to want to kill them. It`s part of being a soldier. Their not saying go out and kill the innocent sure. But having the type of mind set that anybody who even looks like their going to make a play is going to get whacked has certainly brought more then one soldier home back to their familys. If your going to be a warrior you have to have a warriors state of mind. Killing is your job

sigh. This type of behavior does not "keep me alive" nor does it "fight for my freedom" anywhere period. You think the conflict in Afghanistan really did anything or achieved anything? wrong. Afghanistan was all about Osama Bin Laden. Oh yeah thats right haven't heard much about him lately because ...drum roll..... WE CANT FIND HIM LOLOLOLOL, nor do we seem to care these days, it was completely overshadowed by Iraq, which in a round about way brings us to this investment.

"killing is your job"

Nice bro, I guess when there isn't anymore conflict and your bored why not go out and shoot some innocents just for fun. After all they are still stationed there and "killing is their job" right?

Edited April 4, 2011 by shiFT_yourworld