Scientology ? ? ? Seriously ? ? ?

[Weapon X]

Until you show me hard evidence to the contrary, Darwin is correct. I believe when you die, they only way you live on is through your actions and the legacy you leave behind.

Plz understand that I do not preach nor do i codemn, but Darwin and evolution have a lot of holes that science has not been able to explain, If you believe in Sceince as being absoutley right plz tell me where are the transitional fossils or the famous missing link??? Every 1 years they find a Missng link and 3 mos later science debunks it.

Explain why Evolution is still a theory (assumed obsevation), See science is not absolute in why we are here and has not been able to debunk the existance of a spiritual being.

I belive in a balance aproach in life.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Weapon X

[gp49]

My apologies jellyfish. I said that I wouldn't read anymore of your posts but now that I did I will answer you if you are taking votes.

I vote that you take your losses and RUN.

Nuff said

[pluMmet]

sound nice all path leads to God

those that kill baby as human sacrifice .... leads to god

those that have sex orgy as form of worship ....leads to god

those that perform sorcery .... leads to god

those that worship Satan .....leads to god

those that tells the followers to kill and murder ... leads to god

ALL PATH leads to god think again

The reason Hinduism allows for those types of people to get to God is thru the mechanism of reincarnation. As most Christians don't believe the Bible where Jesus says that "John the Baptist IS Elijah" they have no thoughts about reincarnation so they cannot see how the list you made is possible.

[Roadrunner]

Actually the reason Christians don't believe in reincarnation is because there is nothing in the bible to support it and much to debunk it.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Also, you might want to read the 16 chapter of Luke where Jesus gives the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. It doesn't read to me like they had another chance.

[tommyboy]

Every religion has their own God. One of the things that unites us all is that we have a belief in a supreme being. What difference does it make what your name for that being is? As long as you believe and model your life so as to be accepted by that being and those around you do the same, it doesn't matter if you call him "Joe Blow from windy city". Whatever makes you a better person. JMHO.

No bashin', please.

Edited March 21, 2011 by tommyboy

[pluMmet]

Actually the reason Christians don't believe in reincarnation is because there is nothing in the bible to support it and much to debunk it.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Also, you might want to read the 16 chapter of Luke where Jesus gives the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. It doesn't read to me like they had another chance.

I can explain Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: and why it does not go against reincarnation

Can you explain

Matthew 11:14-15 Jesus said, "And if you will receive it, this is Elijah which was for to come. He that has ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 9:11-9:13

They asked Him, saying, "Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He will suffer many things and be treated with contempt?

But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

[mattevan]

There is only one GOD....and Hinduism is a Blimp that floats around the sky...or is that Hindenburg...oh well same thing both don't exists anymore:)...If the Christian GOD don't exist everyone who doesn't believe will be fine, but if he does you will be wood for the fire...

I will pray for non-believers.

Go Dinars!!

[Teresa82]

The Bible is a hosh posh of scripture that has been edited and distorted.

Sorry, Typically I would just sit back and read this stuff, but I can say with all honesty,that THIS saying right here is just not true!I dare you to study the Bible and prove me wrong here. I have over 35 years experience in studying the scriptures to prove to myself they are either right or wrong, and have come to the conclusion that there is NO WAY a bunch of "hosh posh" writings could come together in such complete perfection as do the writings in the Bible.That is just not true. Not trying to get your feathers in a ruffle, but I have to speak that which I know to be true.

I can explain Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: and why it does not go against reincarnation

Can you explain

Matthew 11:14-15 Jesus said, "And if you will receive it, this is Elijah which was for to come. He that has ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 9:11-9:13

They asked Him, saying, "Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"

And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He will suffer many things and be treated with contempt?

But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

You have to know here, that Elijah did NOT see death, In 2 Kings 2:2 He was taken up in a whirlwind....Therefore, he would not be in consideration for reincarnation. He is believed to be one of the end times prophets who will return to earth(Revelation 11:3-4) to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the nation of Israel, and the whole world......I have more on Elijah if you would like to hear more.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Teresa82

[pluMmet]

Teresa82 you are easily my favorite Christian in this thread so far. Instead of throwing out Christian platitudes you actually want to know more. God bless you as you are an example to the others.

To answer your first part: Studying the Bible is a great thing. You have been doing it for 35 years, only slightly longer then me. For whatever reason as I studied the Bible I had questions that the Bible could not answer. Questions that were created by the Bible. So at one point I heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls and that the Vatican obtained them and would not let anyone see them...just a blip of information at the time. Then I heard that another cache of scripture was found but the academics that found it wanted to make sure they were not hidden by the Vatican like the last cache so they released the scriptures immediately.

What we learn from these scriptures is that they are the source of the Bible. They are in fact the same books that are in the Bible only the Bibles rendition of them has been edited and much of the the books have been left out. When the academics saw this they did research and low and behold there was a group of people who purposely created the Bible using these now lost texts. They had a reason! According to them they edited and depleted the original Books of scripture because they believed they were to hard for the average person to understand.

So now we have the Bible a Hosh Posh of scripture. But this is unknown to the Bible thumpers as they have loads of platitudes that they think are themselves scripture...things like The Bible is the living word of god! or The Bible contains all truths! The Bible doesn't say that...they do!

Teresa82 please take the time to read the original texts of the Bible. Some of the changes are immense and some are subtle. Even the subtle changes are a travesty to the original texts.

Here is one of my favorite examples of a small change that created a vastly different story:

paraphrasing

Bible-

A Man has 100 sheep. 1 sheep goes astray and the man leaves the 99 to go find it.

Original text-

A man has 100 sheep. His best sheep goes astray and he leaves the 99 to go find it.

Sounds like a minor change but it's huge! In the bible version it's a feminine story of emotion. In the original text it's a masculine story of rationality.

Now Teresa82 to your second part:

The thing you mentioned about Elijah not dying is extremely relevant to proving reincarnation. John the Baptist was born of woman yet according to Jesus, John the Baptist was Elijah. Elijah existed in heaven and existed simultaneously on earth as John the Baptist. This concept also explains to the normal Christian response of such scripture as "Man has but 1 life to live." Your soul exists in Heaven just as Elijah is in Heaven. Part of your soul goes to earth and is born as a child just as John the Baptist was born. When your body dies it will be nevermore...it had it's 1 life to live. But you the real You that is in Heaven will send another piece of itself to earth which will be born to another woman with a new name. A new chance for your soul but again that body will only live once.

[Mustmoto]

Wow, lots of negatives for sharing what I feel is true. That's not very Christian is it? Actually, I guess it is. You proved my point, bunch of hypocrites.

There is far more hard evidence supporting evolution than creationism, and that is why I believe the way I do. It's ok for the holy rollers here to go on and on about God, but I'm slammed for what I believe. I have no problem with what you believe. I do have a problem with the double standard and actual hate that comes from so called Christians on this site.

Weapon X - Due to the specialized and rare circumstances required for a biological structure to fossilize, only a very small percentage of all life-forms that ever have existed can be expected to be represented in discoveries and each represents only a snapshot of the process of evolution. The transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, but it will never demonstrate an exact half-way point between clearly divergent forms. Less than 1% of all living being of this earth will have had the correct set of circumstances to fossilize. Whales, birds , and other animals have shown vestigial body part (parts that are not used in their survial) that are remains of a evolutionary change. How is it that Humans and Chimps' DNA is 99% the same? What about Homo Erectus, Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon man? Never heard of them in the scriptures. Or dinosaurs for that matter...

[JuryPicker]

Wow, lots of negatives for sharing what I feel is true. That's not very Christian is it? Actually, I guess it is. You proved my point, bunch of hypocrites.

There is far more hard evidence supporting evolution than creationism, and that is why I believe the way I do. It's ok for the holy rollers here to go on and on about God, but I'm slammed for what I believe. I have no problem with what you believe. I do have a problem with the double standard and actual hate that comes from so called Christians on this site.

Weapon X - Due to the specialized and rare circumstances required for a biological structure to fossilize, only a very small percentage of all life-forms that ever have existed can be expected to be represented in discoveries and each represents only a snapshot of the process of evolution. The transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, but it will never demonstrate an exact half-way point between clearly divergent forms. Less than 1% of all living being of this earth will have had the correct set of circumstances to fossilize. Whales, birds , and other animals have shown vestigial body part (parts that are not used in their survial) that are remains of a evolutionary change. How is it that Humans and Chimps' DNA is 99% the same? What about Homo Erectus, Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon man? Never heard of them in the scriptures. Or dinosaurs for that matter...

Where did the very, very, very first life form come from? It couldn't have very well evolved from nothing.

[pluMmet]

Mustmoto, Weapon X... If either of you care to read, The 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin bridges the gap between your ideas and the gap of the Missing Link.

[Mustmoto]

Where did the very, very, very first life form come from? It couldn't have very well evolved from nothing.

Life began as simple organic compounds in the primordial soup of the early oceans. From organic compounds came mitocondrial DNA and simple celled organisms such as bacteria. Then multi-celled organisms and on down the line....

So no it didn't come from nothing, it came from elements created during the big bang. Let's not get into string or membrane theory on what caused the big bang. That is still not proven and so I don't fully believe there is a correct answer for that yet.

Or you can believe it was God. I'm fine with that. You have your faith, I have mine. Just respect mine, and I'll respect yours.

+1 to PluMmet

[Weapon X]

Wow, lots of negatives for sharing what I feel is true. That's not very Christian is it? Actually, I guess it is. You proved my point, bunch of hypocrites.

There is far more hard evidence supporting evolution than creationism, and that is why I believe the way I do. It's ok for the holy rollers here to go on and on about God, but I'm slammed for what I believe. I have no problem with what you believe. I do have a problem with the double standard and actual hate that comes from so called Christians on this site.

Weapon X - Due to the specialized and rare circumstances required for a biological structure to fossilize, only a very small percentage of all life-forms that ever have existed can be expected to be represented in discoveries and each represents only a snapshot of the process of evolution. The transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, but it will never demonstrate an exact half-way point between clearly divergent forms. Less than 1% of all living being of this earth will have had the correct set of circumstances to fossilize. Whales, birds , and other animals have shown vestigial body part (parts that are not used in their survial) that are remains of a evolutionary change. How is it that Humans and Chimps' DNA is 99% the same? What about Homo Erectus, Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon man? Never heard of them in the scriptures. Or dinosaurs for that matter...

Sorry but that sounds like a excuse of why they have not found the transiotional fossil, funny thing is that ther are NONE. What you are calling transitional fossils are assumptions without any proof whatsoever, thats why Evolution is still a theory, a observed assumption. And I believe everybody know what happens when you assume.

I have heard of them all but even there there are no transitional fossils, and funny thing that many evolutionists do not mention is that Neanderthal and Homo Sapien coexisted together, being 2 separate species, and many of the sapiens coexisted with one another and yet there are no fossils of the change from one to another. like I said Science is not infallible, it has its flaws because what today is the missing link will be debunked tomorrow, and without transitional fossils it leaves the door open to a sudden appearance of species.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Weapon X

[JuryPicker]

Life began as simple organic compounds in the primordial soup of the early oceans. From organic compounds came mitocondrial DNA and simple celled organisms such as bacteria. Then multi-celled organisms and on down the line....

So no it didn't come from nothing, it came from elements created during the big bang. Let's not get into string or membrane theory on what caused the big bang. That is still not proven and so I don't fully believe there is a correct answer for that yet.

Or you can believe it was God. I'm fine with that. You have your faith, I have mine. Just respect mine, and I'll respect yours.

+1 to PluMmet

That is so true. It cannot and will not be proven. I respect your stance. Science can only go so far before it hits a wall. I guess this is where faith has to come in. Now, we need a big bang RV!

[Mustmoto]

Sorry but that sounds like a excuse of why they have not found the transiotional fossil, funny thing is that ther are NONE. What you are calling transitional fossils are assumptions without any proof whatsoever, thats why Evolution is still a theory, a observed assumption. And I believe everybody know what happens when you assume.

I have heard of them all but even there there are no transitional fossils, and funny thing that many evolutionists do not mention is that Neanderthal and Homo Sapien coexisted together, being 2 separate species, and many of the sapiens coexisted with one another and yet there are no fossils of the change from one to another. like I said Science is not infallible, it has its flaws because what today is the missing link will be debunked tomorrow, and without transitional fossils it leaves the door open to a sudden appearance of species.

Ok Show me proof of the Ark, the bones of Jesus, Moses, David, Joseph, or Mary. Even better, if we all came from 2 beings, we should all look the same, have the same skin color, have the same hair, and share all the same traits correct? How do you explain the the differences in humans? Genetic mutations right? That is the smallest building block in evolution. Or did God decide somewhere down the line (6000 to 4000 years mind you, according to the Bible) to make people look different? For creationists its so easy to say, "show me proof" when you have none for your side of the argument.

Let's agree to disagree, and share a drink after this whole ride is over.

[okane]

Scientology has Nothing to do with God. Check it out.

IF any of you have really checked Scientology out .... you would find this is true. What other "religion" has had to go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court to try to prove tax protection under the Tax Code which is readily giving to Non-Profits. The problem is they don't care if you believe in ANYTHING at all. You can believe in God, many gods, no God ..... doesn't matter. As long as you send them all the money you can get your hands on. These guys are the ultimate PUMPERS. If they get their hooks in you once, look out. They are great with psych issues and, (at times, seem to prey on the weak minded) . If you have "issues" from you past, they are great but be ready for decades of harassment.

Disclaimer: To be "CLEAR". This is based upon my personal experiences. It must be "clearly" understood that I will not debate my stand of this issue. I will not address "resolving" any "conflicts" or efforts to "clear" up any so called "mis-communications, mis-understanding or mis-interpretations". Are we "clear"?

[pluMmet]

Mustmoto your problem is a common one. You see loads of gullible idiots believing in something which makes you naturally repel from it. It doesn't help matters any that so many of the things that these gullible idiots say are so obviously incorrect. According to the Bible (And it's something I believe) Simple minds gravitate to God. Now here is where the Catch 22 comes in. These simple people actually feel a connection that you do not but they are too simple to correctly sift thru the information surrounding what they are gravitating to. They begin spewing nonsense about what they believe without any rational self evaluation or a rational evaluation of what they think they believe.

The way this crazy thing is supposed to work is both sides are supposed to at some point love the opposition enough to try to understand them there by gaining the missing piece of themselves.

Having said that I can only say that Jesus did live and it's as proven as any other piece of history. If you don't believe that then you are simple not looking. I can understand why you would not want to look. As so many miraculous things are attributed to Jesus that have no basis in your understanding of science then it's a waste of time to see that he existed....even if he did how can it be possible that he did these things?

I'll leave you with a Mason saying: There is no such thing as a miracle, just science that you don't understand.

[Mustmoto]

Mustmoto your problem is a common one. You see loads of gullible idiots believing in something which makes you naturally repel from it. It doesn't help matters any that so many of the things that these gullible idiots say are so obviously incorrect. According to the Bible (And it's something I believe) Simple minds gravitate to God. Now here is where the Catch 22 comes in. These simple people actually feel a connection that you do not but they are too simple to correctly sift thru the information surrounding what they are gravitating to. They begin spewing nonsense about what they believe without any rational self evaluation or a rational evaluation of what they think they believe.

The way this crazy thing is supposed to work is both sides are supposed to at some point love the opposition enough to try to understand them there by gaining the missing piece of themselves.

Having said that I can only say that Jesus did live and it's as proven as any other piece of history. If you don't believe that then you are simple not looking. I can understand why you would not want to look. As so many miraculous things are attributed to Jesus that have no basis in your understanding of science then it's a waste of time to see that he existed....even if he did how can it be possible that he did these things?

I'll leave you with a Mason saying: There is no such thing as a miracle, just science that you don't understand.

Great point, PluMmet.

I do actually believe Jesus lived, but just don't believe in the Bible's account. I believe he was a man that did good things without a doubt. I believe he was persecuted for who he was and what he stood for. I have read and watched man programs on the historical accounts of Jesus. However, I do not believe he was the son of God or rose from the dead. That is where there is a disconnect for me personally.

[Teresa82]

Teresa82 you are easily my favorite Christian in this thread so far. Instead of throwing out Christian platitudes you actually want to know more. God bless you as you are an example to the others.

To answer your first part: Studying the Bible is a great thing. You have been doing it for 35 years, only slightly longer then me. For whatever reason as I studied the Bible I had questions that the Bible could not answer. Questions that were created by the Bible. So at one point I heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls and that the Vatican obtained them and would not let anyone see them...just a blip of information at the time. Then I heard that another cache of scripture was found but the academics that found it wanted to make sure they were not hidden by the Vatican like the last cache so they released the scriptures immediately.

What we learn from these scriptures is that they are the source of the Bible. They are in fact the same books that are in the Bible only the Bibles rendition of them has been edited and much of the the books have been left out. When the academics saw this they did research and low and behold there was a group of people who purposely created the Bible using these now lost texts. They had a reason! According to them they edited and depleted the original Books of scripture because they believed they were to hard for the average person to understand.

So now we have the Bible a Hosh Posh of scripture. But this is unknown to the Bible thumpers as they have loads of platitudes that they think are themselves scripture...things like The Bible is the living word of god! or The Bible contains all truths! The Bible doesn't say that...they do!

Teresa82 please take the time to read the original texts of the Bible. Some of the changes are immense and some are subtle. Even the subtle changes are a travesty to the original texts.

Here is one of my favorite examples of a small change that created a vastly different story:

paraphrasing

Bible-

A Man has 100 sheep. 1 sheep goes astray and the man leaves the 99 to go find it.

Original text-

A man has 100 sheep. His best sheep goes astray and he leaves the 99 to go find it.

Sounds like a minor change but it's huge! In the bible version it's a feminine story of emotion. In the original text it's a masculine story of rationality.

Now Teresa82 to your second part:

The thing you mentioned about Elijah not dying is extremely relevant to proving reincarnation. John the Baptist was born of woman yet according to Jesus, John the Baptist was Elijah. Elijah existed in heaven and existed simultaneously on earth as John the Baptist. This concept also explains to the normal Christian response of such scripture as "Man has but 1 life to live." Your soul exists in Heaven just as Elijah is in Heaven. Part of your soul goes to earth and is born as a child just as John the Baptist was born. When your body dies it will be nevermore...it had it's 1 life to live. But you the real You that is in Heaven will send another piece of itself to earth which will be born to another woman with a new name. A new chance for your soul but again that body will only live once.

Your soul exists in Heaven just as Elijah is in Heaven. Part of your soul goes to earth and is born as a child just as John the Baptist was born. When your body dies it will be nevermore...it had it's 1 life to live. But you the real You that is in Heaven will send another piece of itself to earth which will be born to another woman with a new name. A new chance for your soul but again that body will only live once.

Where did you get this bit of information. I would have to see proof of this in order to give it any credibility, backed by scripture, since that is what we are using to judge in this conversation.

the Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is given this designation because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament (and will again in the future – see Revelation 11). Third, Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had changed his identity (Matthew 17:11-12).

Here are some scriptures that back up a no reincarnation theory

Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." I believe He is talking about your flesh here.

But after this the judgment - They shall die but once, and be judged but once, therefore there is no metempsychosis, no transmigration from body to body; judgment succeeds to dying; and as they shall be judged but once, they can die but once.

It makes no sense if you are reincarnated to be judged over and over-The point here, is that You will NEVER be good enough on this earth to DESERVE to go to heaven. You will actually only be judged on one thing.Did you accept the free gift of my son that I crucified for your atonement? or NOT? It's so very simple, but as humans want to think that God has some kind of unattainable language that we could not possibly grasp until we have lived here long enough to finally get it!

Thank you for a great debate, I have so much more to share with you, but I am doubting that the others on here are wanting to join in ...But you can always message me, I would love to speak further with you. May you find what you are looking for.

PS- I like you too!

Great point, PluMmet.

I do actually believe Jesus lived, but just don't believe in the Bible's account. I believe he was a man that did good things without a doubt. I believe he was persecuted for who he was and what he stood for. I have read and watched man programs on the historical accounts of Jesus. However, I do not believe he was the son of God or rose from the dead. That is where there is a disconnect for me personally.

That would be ok too, if I could only discount the thousands of writing by hundreds of personal hands on accounts and testimony's of His healings,resurrecting dead people, speaking to trees and them withering. Check it out. It's not just the Bible that has these historical writings, it's writing after writing of ordinary folks like you and me that wrote things they saw down. Why do you think they call our History history...because it is just that HIS story. I f you discount these writings, I would say logically, you would have to discount ALL of the writings in the history books we read today.

[Polecat85]

OK, I've been debating on whether to keep holding on to the pipe-dream, or cut my losses and run and invest the money in something else. Well the new advertisement on this board for THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY just sealed the deal for me. Now I don't know if the Church of Scientology is a paying advertiser or what, but the fact that it's up there should be a red flag to anybody with half-a-brain. If there was ever a more clear example of a crackpot cult that preys on the weaknesses of extremely gullible people . . . this is it. I find it interesting that the Church of Scientology chose to advertise on a Dinar Forum. Shouldn't this tell us something? I figure that they have taken into consideration the mindset of the typical Dinar invester, and they decided that this would be a good place to recruit. Any thoughts?

I agree its a cult, but thanks to old slick willie, it is a legal "religion" in this ocuntry. I guess Travolta had too much sway on Bubba.

[pluMmet]

Teresa82

"But after this the judgment - They shall die but once, and be judged but once, therefore there is no metempsychosis, no transmigration from body to body; judgment succeeds to dying; and as they shall be judged but once, they can die but once."

This has been taken out of context. In order to put in back into context you need this: 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end......

The reincarnation has been since the beginning of the world and will stop once God declares the end which will be at the return of Jesus as I interpret.

The other “until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return" has no barring at all as he is talking about the 1 life of the body. Obviously the spirit that is in Heaven that keeps generating pieces that come to earth did not come from dust.

I'm happy to speak to you on this Teresa82 in public or private but I must reiterate that you cannot bring the Bible to me as examples of truth to be examined. To me the Bible is as piece of cheese cloth at best that offers confusion when trying to understand due to it's editorial value. I can go on and on with it but I'm using what I believe a more complete version in order to answer you which will lead to trouble as it seems you will keep point to the Bible in a “Well See This” sort of way.

I'm going to make things very hard for you and see how you do. The examination of scripture before editing is called Gnosticism. The book of Genesis is so different when intact that it's like your on the moon and you think you understand things (the Bible) then all of a sudden your on earth (Original Genesis) and now everything is different and complicated by comparison but now makes sense. Here is a link http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm for a summary of Gnosticism. I have never meet someone as read as you who is willing to be patient enough to consider it as it's just too foreign to someone who hasn't read the original texts.

[pluMmet]

One more thing Teresa82

"You will actually only be judged on one thing.Did you accept the free gift of my son that I crucified for your atonement? or NOT? It's so very simple..."

For someone who believes in gnosticism this is a silly thing to say yet it is so pronounced in Christianity. Jesus loves us all. Many of our fellow humans have not had the opportunity to understand everything you have. To think that Jesus will not afford everyone a complete understanding of who he is and what he offers is ludicrous to a gnostic. We would never say to someone"You must accept Jesus." We would say to Jesus "Why have you not fully explained yourself to this one who has not accepted you?"

We know because God has taught us..they don't know because they have not been properly taught. Don't fear for there soul, you can't do anything about it. Speak to Jesus. Jesus might have you explain what you know but if they believe you or not has nothing to do with you.

[Teresa82]

One more thing Teresa82

"You will actually only be judged on one thing.Did you accept the free gift of my son that I crucified for your atonement? or NOT? It's so very simple..."

For someone who believes in gnosticism this is a silly thing to say yet it is so pronounced in Christianity. Jesus loves us all. Many of our fellow humans have not had the opportunity to understand everything you have. To think that Jesus will not afford everyone a complete understanding of who he is and what he offers is ludicrous to a gnostic. We would never say to someone"You must accept Jesus." We would say to Jesus "Why have you not fully explained yourself to this one who has not accepted you?"

We know because God has taught us..they don't know because they have not been properly taught. Don't fear for there soul, you can't do anything about it. Speak to Jesus. Jesus might have you explain what you know but if they believe you or not has nothing to do with you.

I understand what you are saying, but you still have not given me any proof or basis of what you are saying is the truth, and you haven't addressed the fact that there are hundreds of writings not in the Bible the concur with what the Bible reads Including much of what you are using as a rebuttal which are the dead sea scrolls. I can only judge by concrete evidence...By cross-referencing what one person says against the other, not by some idea that comes up in my head.....My head can think up a whole myriad of untruths, and my mouth can speak them.....They are founded on nothing. I can't give any significance in this debate. I'm sorry,you feel the need to make it difficult for me. I don't have that feeling for you in my heart.God says, in His word which is the only thing that has been preserved through the ages that I found can be held with value, Mark 10:15 (New King James Version)

15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it."

.So when you say the simple minded come to Christ, you are very right, and that is what it takes... to have faith in the unseen. His word also has says thatJohn 8:32 (New International Version, ©2011)31- Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed him," If you abide in my word, you are my disciples indeed.32- Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

So I guess I would ask you...even IF I could show you how the Bible was true, without a shadow of a doubt THEN would you believe? If I thought you would I would sit here and spend my time everyday to win you over to Him....and you are so very right when you say, That Jesus loves you anyway. He does, He loved you so much He took your punishment so that you could be free forever with him.Nothing you could do could make Him not love you that much, and nothing you could do could make him love you any less...Now the ball is in your court...You have to receive that....But until you receive all that He has said(Bible) you can not say that Jesus loves you because you don't understand what that love even means.You can't claim someone you don't even believe exists or has any type deity loves you.That would be like saying Obama loves me....to what advantage is that in eternity?

love T

[ronpriv]

Good luck with that.

Nice thought, but the path that leads to God is very narrow and the path that leads to Hell is very wide. It's all explained in the Bible, just read it.