The dinar doesn,t have to rv.

[cocklebur]

Iraq has a currency in place right now. They can use it to buy and sell whatever they want. It will convert to the dollar or the euro or any other currency. The main thing Iraq needs is to start selling a commodity and take the profits and distribute them in their country to the people so they can in turn spend them on goods and necessities and that will stimulate their economy. Just because a 25 thousand dinar note is only worth around 20 dollars usd doesn,t mean they are broke if they have trillions of them to spend. It is not how they convert into other currencies that matter, it is how many they have to convert. So , therefore, the more oil they sell for usd,s; the more the usd,s convert into dinars and the more dinars they have to convert into usd,s. kiss formula---keep it simple stupid. O, and bash at will, we all need to vent on someone, and I,m here for you.

[Tropics]

So why did you invest if there is no need to RV?

[Nani?]

I see your point... but that doesn't explain why a non investor in the iraqi dinar would be on a site about dinar invest me but the reason it will RV is simply because in order for them to... you know what I'm not going to waste anymore time on these ridicultards (that's my word feel free to use it)

[rjenlow]

Wish you knew where the "apostrophe" key was.

[butkus51]

Cocklebur - I always cross my legs when I see your name. Though your post is without any basis of logic, I have to wonder if your little trreatise is meant as a "tuck you in story" to replace the "visions of sugar plums dancing in our heads". Do you realize how many years I have had these sugar plums in my brain? So tonight, I will think of no RV...won't have to worry about taxes, lawyers or deciding if I should buy a string of poloponies. I live in a studio apartment, can only get one or two ponies in anyway, and with all the sugar plums...just a bit overwhelming. So thanks.

[cocklebur]

I am invested, and sorry about the ' key, arthritis makes the comma easier.

[KramerDinar]

You are correct, they don't have to revalue their currency. They can wait until they are part of WTO, have everything in place, become a thriving economy and then we will see how many investors go over and start buying the **** out of Iraq. Keep their currency low and they will not be the leaders of the ME because investors will own their country, which means they will also own their oil. Lets say they have a contractor come over there they are paying $50/hour or $2000/week.

At their current rate, they would have to dish out 2,340,000 dinar to cover that weekly or if there was a RV of 1=1, they would dish out 2,000 dinar. Which seems more logical?

This is also why a lot of jobs have left the US and gone overseas. Let's say 1170 dinar was a lot to a citizen of Iraq. If you owned a company, you could contract them out and you could pay them 1170 dinars/hour or basically $1/hour. Pretty cheap labor if you ask me.

Edited March 15, 2011 by KramerDinar

[BANE]

It has to RV...Why? Because I said so.

[blue horseshoe]

Thank you Kramer for putting this in the "kiss" method for cocklebur. Apparently, the thinking process comes to a screeching halt...

[rocketman2010]

NUFF SAID just saying

[Rome M]

It doesn't 'have' to RV. It doesn't 'have' to go back to where it was, thus losing the country billions if not trillions of dollars. It does not have to become globally traded so they can purchase goods and necessities from other world players. It doesn't have to be on par with the US dollar, just look at the peso and the Zimbabwe currency. Hell, it doesn't have to be anything it doesn't want to be................................

BUT IT SHOULD, IF THEY WANT TO BE WORTH ANYTHING ON THE GLOBAL MARKET AND KEEP THE OTHER BIG GUYS HAPPY.

[RichNick123]

Another option is just to throw it to forex and the trade community, who will put it at a reasonable trade rate based on nothing more than the economic side of the equation. I have just about given up hope of an RV/RI at this point. Just let the dang currency be valuated at whatever the international community feels like it is actually worth.

If we knew how many actual physical dinar were on the market, what the actual M2 and M3 were then investors could give a market approximation. With no real figures and no hard intel it is a crapshoot at this point. Not being a doom and gloom guy, just stating the obvious that no one seems to talk about.

[cocklebur]

You are correct, they don't have to revalue their currency. They can wait until they are part of WTO, have everything in place, become a thriving economy and then we will see how many investors go over and start buying the **** out of Iraq. Keep their currency low and they will not be the leaders of the ME because investors will own their country, which means they will also own their oil. Lets say they have a contractor come over there they are paying $50/hour or $2000/week.

At their current rate, they would have to dish out 2,340,000 dinar to cover that weekly or if there was a RV of 1=1, they would dish out 2,000 dinar. Which seems more logical?

This is also why a lot of jobs have left the US and gone overseas. Let's say 1170 dinar was a lot to a citizen of Iraq. If you owned a company, you could contract them out and you could pay them 1170 dinars/hour or basically $1/hour. Pretty cheap labor if you ask me.

If the contractor can pay 50 dollars per hour usd he can pay 58,500 dinar per hour, same difference.

Edited March 15, 2011 by cocklebur

[deenar]

The first four letters of your username describe you perfectly. DUH! WINNING!!

[progsxr]

I kind of saw that in the beginning too but if they sold lets say oil by the barrel...wouldnt it be alot cheeper than it is now?

[niko184]

Nice explanation Kramer!

Not to mention they would piss every other ME country off. I'm sure that would be a great way to mend the relationship with KU:) Same issue with China right now. The world knows that they are keeping their currency undervalued so that thier exports will remain high. This wont last much longer. The WTO and the rest of the world is ready to crack down on these manipulations. Time to give everyone an even playing field! Well, more even than before;)

[Legolas]

The bashing can cease.. Cocklebur is essentially correct. The only point he missed is that in order to attract international investment, the Dinar has to become internationally "tradable." At this time, Iraq has virtually nothing but oil and gas to export, both of which are traded in Dollars, not Dinars, and will likely continue to be, with or without our RV. Their currency is just as valuable as that of any OTHER country. What matters is how "much" of the currency it takes to "buy" a particular product, and nothing more. Whether it takes 1,170 Dinars or 1 Dinar to buy a can of Coke makes no difference to the Iraqi citizen unless he or she is "paid" at a rate that makes this purchase impossible. Nobody seems to be able to wrap their heads around the simplicity of this fact. Without a doubt, they are poor and underpaid, but changing the value of the individual Dinar won't change this fact appreciably. The average Iraqi citizen does not have a wallet full of 25,000 Dinar notes, if any at all.

MANY otherwise successful countries have currencies which have conversion rates(to the Dollar) which are similar, or even lower than that of Iraq. As one of many examples, look at Iran, right next door. It takes more than 10,000 Iranian Rials to equal One U.S. Dollar. Does this make the Rial worthless toilet paper? It takes more than 20,000 Vietnamese Dong to equal One U.S. Dollar. There are many similar examples around the world. The argument that the Dinar is worthless at its current "exchange rate" is completely without merit. What is hurting the Dinar is that it is not recognized internationally. The quantity per Dollar is insignificant.

The "primary" reason for Iraq's removal of the three zeros is simple mathematics and the difficulty in "COUNTING" the currency. Removing the zeros drastically simplifies the banking and retail industries. The presence of the three zeros on the notes makes counting extremely difficult once you exceed the limits of the average human ability (roughly one million) or even most CALCULATORS which don't go high enough to count large quantities of their currency.

What we as investors are hoping is that when they finally get around to removing the three zeros, that they "also" REVALUE the currency at the same time. In either case, they would need to issue new currency in smaller denominations, and ultimately remove the larger notes from circulation. We keep hearing in the never-ending "stupid rumors" that they have started this process of removing the large notes, and YET there seems to be a virtually unending supply of new uncirculated 25,000 Dinar notes available from every Dinar dealer. A shortage of these notes only seems to occur when the "rumors" generate an increased demand for Dinars, and the dealers "temporarily" run out of them.

Meanwhile, literally BILLIONS of Dinars are being sold in the U.S. and elsewhere every single month for the past several years as the rumor mill grinds away, very successfully convincing us that each one of these countless 25,000 Dinar notes which have been filling the Fed Ex trucks every day is one day soon going to magically turn into $25,000 - $75,000 U.S. Dollars. We can hope that this happens, and it does seem to make some degree of economic sense that it should (although a $3 RV seems ludicrous to me) but I have to say that after several years of watching this phenomenon unfold, and thousand of rumors (lies) proven untrue, I'm being less confident as time goes on. One thing is certain.......the DEALERS are making a great deal of money.

[easyrider]

It has to Rv because if not someone is getting their a$$ whooped. j/k but seriously.

[Dinarsaurus]

I,m realistic,but now your just depressing me.

[Legolas]

LOL. I agree, Easyrider.......and the logical target for the whoopins is the pumpers and those who are paying for/encouraging/supporting their constant B.S. There's no real reason for depression though. It is totally logical that SOMETHING has to happen with the Dinar in the very near future. In order for Iraq to become economically successful, which should be inevitable given the quantity of oil they're sitting on, their currency has to become internationally tradable, and it would seem that this is likely to happen very soon. At the very least, market conditions should cause the Dinar to increase in value over a period of time, as their economy grows and they start pumping more oil. Unlike an instantaneous RV, (which we continue to hope for) this growth won't happen overnight, but it should happen nevertheless. In order for us make money, or at least break even without an immediate revaluation, the Dinar will have to increase in value by at least 30-40% (to cover the spread that we paid in purchasing, and will pay again exchanging). Given the potential for economic growth and development in Iraq, it's not unreasonable to expect to see an increase in the value of the Dinar when it becomes tradable. In order for that growth to occur, they need a rational, stable government - something which has been painfully elusive over the past few years. Fortunately, it is in the best interests of the entire world to assist in making that stability a reality. Meanwhile, as always, we WAIT.

[txsrooster]

If they go back to gradually increasing the value as they did before (hopefully at a quicker pace) and get it to a point that is fairly reasonable say 500 iqd to 1 usd then RI it to forex to let the world set its value, then there wouldn't be a shockwave of buying and selling that would disrupt that countries already fragile economy.

Well this is the way I see it going down..

[caz1104]

Excellent post! I vote it for post of the day.........................................................GO RV 2011 BABY!!!!

This vote was for Legolas's 8:14am post-sorry

Edited March 15, 2011 by caz1104

[the next contestant]

Sometimes reality is not always popular. This post is easier to believe, may not be what we want to hear. Look at it this way, compaired to all the Gurus out there, on a scale of being right or wrong, this post has been right so far 100%. Yeah, I know, I would rather the pumpers be right, we all would. But sometimes reality is right in front of us and we refuse to see it. Not being negative, but realisticly positive. One day we will make our money, but not right away.

[Networth]

Iraq has a currency in place right now. They can use it to buy and sell whatever they want. It will convert to the dollar or the euro or any other currency.

There is nothing unreasonable about your post. Wealth is not created by revaluing a currency. A revalue is much like a stock split. The shareholder has more shares but each share is worth less. The total value of the shareholder investment hasn't changed. If wealth could be created through a revaluation, every sovereign nation would revalue their currency in order to provide wealth to it's citizens. Instinctively, I think people know this. But until the lottery official calls out the last number (which never matches their ticket) they believe they own the winning ticket.

You are exactly right. Iraq has a currency. It is a tradable currency. It can be bought and sold relatively easily in the world market. The specific exchange rate is not significant because it is only relative to other currencies. It may take several more units of one currency to buy one unit of another currency but there are several more units available to buy that currency with. The South Korean won has an exchange rate with the USD very similar to the dinar. Yet the won is not considered an undervalued or "toilet paper" currency. Currency is nothing but a medium of exchange intended to allow people to trade their ideas, skills, ability and labor for items that they want and need in their life. People with sufficiently valuable ideas, skills, ability and labor are able to store their excessive value in the local currency for future use. It is really insiginificant how the currency is designated or valued as long as one's ideas, skills, ability and labor are valued consistently between jurisdicitions. If a ten foot ditch dug in Iraq is worth a dozen apples, the same length ditch in India should also be worth a dozen apples. If one guy digs the ditch in a hour, then an hour of his labor is worth 12 apples. If another guy can dig the ditch in 30 minutes, then his labor is worth 24 apples an hour. As long as the labor is being intrinsically valued the same, the value of the currency he is paid in is insignificant when compared to other currencies. It only matters that the number of units of currency he receives for the labor used to dig the ten foot ditch is sufficient to buy 12 apples. He may receive different units of currency depending upon the currency he is paid in but as long as that currency is sufficient is acquire 12 apples, it really doesn't matter how many units he received. The currency is only the medium of exchange between his labor and the apples.

People shouldn't get caught up in the current dinar exchange rate with the USD and think that is reason that a revaluation is necessary. It isn't. It is irrelevant.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Networth

[Legolas]

I like the "apples" analogy. Unfortunately, most people still won't buy it, but it certainly makes it easier to understand the fact that Iraq's currency is not toilet paper.