Voices From The Street

[Slaydadea]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/477102129?-1377

[desert surfer]

That is a very interesting link. I am almost finished reading George W. Bush's book [/u DECISION POINTS . Before we just accept the voices on the street in all cases, it might be a good idea to look at all the information that is given. Presedent Bush goes into great detail about the WMD. He is very honest about it and how the information that he received and other leaders of the world almost all come to the same understanding about WMD, with the exception of those nations with contract interest in Iraq. It is a good read.

I live in a position that at times "voices on the street" say things about me that I know is not true, yet I can sleep at night because I know that I was right in my actions with the greater judge then the voices on the street. That is the Voice from above. The King of kings and the LORD of lords. We would all be better off if that is where we keep our eyes.

[bagdaddy]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/477102129?-1377

I am not understanding your link or your point. Please elaborate.

Iraq-we won --Vietnam we chose to loose. The constant diatribe-- Bush lied people died is so silly. Bush is a lair, Chaney is a thief, Rumsfeld is this, Halliburton that. When will you look at the truth. I am not a fan of any of these guys but the demography without fact and historical context can't be any more boring and just plane silly.

[Iraqi Queen]

I am not understanding your link or your point. Please elaborate.

Iraq-we won --Vietnam we chose to loose. The constant diatribe-- Bush lied people died is so silly. Bush is a lair, Chaney is a thief, Rumsfeld is this, Halliburton that. When will you look at the truth. I am not a fan of any of these guys but the demography without fact and historical context can't be any more boring and just plane silly.

You say "Iraq we won". What exactly was won?

I get to witness first hand Iraqi children who are burned beyond recognition, who have lost their mothers, and their fathers, sisters and brothers.There are over 2.5 million orphans in Iraq because "We won". I get to see raw sewage all over a once beautiful country, because "We won". I also get to see millions of Iraqi refugees all over the world now, because "We won." I also have gotten to see the horrible condition it has left thousands of American soldiers, also burned and without limbs. Again, thousands of American children left without mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.

Bush lied, people died is silly? What is the truth according to you?

Please tell me, what is it that "We won?"

[R2d2dc]

Iraqi Queen You are right of course, we so frequently forget about the devastation that is left after all of the fighting is done. Thank you for bringing the reality of the situation into perspective, at least for me. Thank you!

[andy3978]

You say "Iraq we won". What exactly was won?

I get to witness first hand Iraqi children who are burned beyond recognition, who have lost their mothers, and their fathers, sisters and brothers.There are over 2.5 million orphans in Iraq because "We won". I get to see raw sewage all over a once beautiful country, because "We won". I also get to see millions of Iraqi refugees all over the world now, because "We won." I also have gotten to see the horrible condition it has left thousands of American soldiers, also burned and without limbs. Again, thousands of American children left without mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.

Bush lied, people died is silly? What is the truth according to you?

Please tell me, what is it that "We won?"

Yes you're right . We should have left Saddam in power right? Thats what it sounds to me that you suggest. I suppose belittling women, Saddam's sons picking which schoolgirl the feel like raping is acceptable for you right? Perhaps those who disagreed with Saddam getting dropped in vats of boiling oil is your speed? Acceptable isnt it?

Yea, shiit happens in war, but it is a hell of a lot better in the long term than the 30 years of brutality Saddam imposed.

Perhaps you can share with the US Service Personnel who got killed, disfigured, and maimed how you feel that their sacrifices were not appreciated or necessary. Yea you're right, Saddam was a better choice, should have left him there to do what he wished. maybe you'd have no problem when your 14 year old daughter came home saying how Udai & Qusai gang banged her.

According to that logic, Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini, Stalin and all the other swell guys shouldn't have been confronted and defeated because of the collateral damage. Think in broader terms next time and see the bigger picture.

[Biker]

One hell of a price to pay for people in a country we dont even know aint it, but i think it depends on how you look at it. We Freed a country of people from a savage dictatorship. We dident win didly, The people of Irac won, we paid for it in many ways.

Just saying.

[Iraqi Queen]

Iraqi Queen You are right of course, we so frequently forget about the devastation that is left after all of the fighting is done. Thank you for bringing the reality of the situation into perspective, at least for me. Thank you!

R2d2dc,

It is an unfortunate, horrible reality. We are all paying for this war, somehow or another and we will be paying for it for generations to come. I am not just speaking financially, either.

No one wins, we all lose. May God help us all, and May God bless America and Iraq.

One thing I can be assured of, My God is still on the throne, and HE always wins! I know the ending of the book, God's people win!

[bagdaddy]

You say "Iraq we won". What exactly was won?

I get to witness first hand Iraqi children who are burned beyond recognition, who have lost their mothers, and their fathers, sisters and brothers.There are over 2.5 million orphans in Iraq because "We won". I get to see raw sewage all over a once beautiful country, because "We won". I also get to see millions of Iraqi refugees all over the world now, because "We won." I also have gotten to see the horrible condition it has left thousands of American soldiers, also burned and without limbs. Again, thousands of American children left without mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.

Bush lied, people died is silly? What is the truth according to you?

Please tell me, what is it that "We won?"

Iraq is free. Millions of Iraqis are free. War is truly hell, I was there. My son bears the scars of war and is disabled by this hellish war. We confronted evil and won.

[Iraqi Queen]

Yes you're right . We should have left Saddam in power right? Thats what it sounds to me that you suggest. I suppose belittling women, Saddam's sons picking which schoolgirl the feel like raping is acceptable for you right? Perhaps those who disagreed with Saddam getting dropped in vats of boiling oil is your speed? Acceptable isnt it?

Yea, shiit happens in war, but it is a hell of a lot better in the long term than the 30 years of brutality Saddam imposed.

Perhaps you can share with the US Service Personnel who got killed, disfigured, and maimed how you feel that their sacrifices were not appreciated or necessary. Yea you're right, Saddam was a better choice, should have left him there to do what he wished. maybe you'd have no problem when your 14 year old daughter came home saying how Udai & Qusai gang banged her.

According to that logic, Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini, Stalin and all the other swell guys shouldn't have been confronted and defeated because of the collateral damage. Think in broader terms next time and see the bigger picture.

Andy3978,

I never said anything about Saddam. If you read any of my past posts, you will know exactly how I feel about Saddam, his sons and his regime. He got exactly what he deserved.

Please don't speak to me about the torture of my people, I know very well. I prayed for over 25 years that God would send someone to remove him and I praise God daily for the American troops who did just that.

I know too well everything about Iraq, women, children, the lies, the poverty, etc. etc. I am an Iraqi. I lived it. I have family members who were tortured by Saddam and his regime and I have family members who are still missing, so please spare me! I am also an American, by naturalization. You see, I get to witness all of this from every angle. I love and respect our military and their sacrifice. I know too well what this war cost them and their families.

So, next time you need to vent, go elsewhere. In the meantime, I will continue to pray for America and Iraq.

BTW, I do not consider children "Collateral Damage". I do see the bigger picture.

So, would you like to tell me what it is that we won?

[Nelson0528]

It is, and always has been, the Iraqi People's responsibility to control the future of their country. Saddam Hussein should have been overthrown many, many years ago by his own people. Fortunately for Iraq, Great Nations like the US, Great Brittain, Canada, Australia, and the rest of the Coalition Countries, were NOT so self absorbed and egocentric, that they were willing to share in the sacrifices and horrors of this War to help ensure that freedom reigns over tyranny, oppression and injustice in the World. It is a shame that not ALL people of the world understand this; oh right, that seems to be a fundamentally Christian ideal. My bad. Of course with our opponents, it always has to be about how we are motivated by our own interests and financial gain. I mean, just look at the disparity amongst all the nations who are actually getting the contracts to rebuild. America is leading the pack, right?... NOT! Obviously, I have no idea what I am talking about. Please excuse my impropriety. Happy Sunday!

[andy3978]

Andy3978,

I never said anything about Saddam. If you read any of my past posts, you will know exactly how I feel about Saddam, his sons and his regime. He got exactly what he deserved.

Please don't speak to me about the torture of my people, I know very well. I prayed for over 25 years that God would send someone to remove him and I praise God daily for the American troops who did just that.

I know too well everything about Iraq, women, children, the lies, the poverty, etc. etc. I am an Iraqi. I lived it. I have family members who were tortured by Saddam and his regime and I have family members who are still missing, so please spare me! I am also an American, by naturalization. You see, I get to witness all of this from every angle. I love and respect our military and their sacrifice. I know too well what this war cost them and their families.

So, next time you need to vent, go elsewhere. In the meantime, I will continue to pray for America and Iraq.

BTW, I do not consider children "Collateral Damage". I do see the bigger picture.

So, would you like to tell me what it is that we won?

We won the conflict of the us vs. Saddam's regime. Period. And yes collateral damage takes many shapes and forms. Did you really think Saddam's removal would be quick and painless? Did you think a tree wouldn't be uprooted or a window being smashed? Sadly people died...Iraqis and Americans and others. The landscape was scarred sadly but it was for the greater good of Iraq. I'd expect you to see that.

Berlin and London for decimated and far many more people got killed but there was no other way. People accepted that reality. Now is the time for your people to rebuild Iraq to its former grandeur only now with democracy and equal rights and HOPE and not despair.

So what did we win? We won Iraq's freedom from tyranny. We won its future to be freely determined by Iraqis and not a dictator. We won the chance for peace.

[Gut Feelings]

Yes you're right . We should have left Saddam in power right? Thats what it sounds to me that you suggest. I suppose belittling women, Saddam's sons picking which schoolgirl the feel like raping is acceptable for you right? Perhaps those who disagreed with Saddam getting dropped in vats of boiling oil is your speed? Acceptable isnt it?

Yea, shiit happens in war, but it is a hell of a lot better in the long term than the 30 years of brutality Saddam imposed.

Perhaps you can share with the US Service Personnel who got killed, disfigured, and maimed how you feel that their sacrifices were not appreciated or necessary. Yea you're right, Saddam was a better choice, should have left him there to do what he wished. maybe you'd have no problem when your 14 year old daughter came home saying how Udai & Qusai gang banged her.

According to that logic, Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini, Stalin and all the other swell guys shouldn't have been confronted and defeated because of the collateral damage. Think in broader terms next time and see the bigger picture.

I gave you a plus for your post also!

You also left out an important point, so I'll make it. I tend to believe that most of the homeless, maimed and disfigured came from their own kind blowing themselves up. Someone who walk into a marketplace full of people who are trying to shop for food.... suddenly pulls a cord to set off rows of explosives strapped around their chest! 65 are gone in a flash!

America used laser guided bombs and did their best to minimize non-combatant casualties. Saddam and his sons HAD TO GO...that's all there is to it.

[Iraqi Queen]

Iraq is free. Millions of Iraqis are free. War is truly hell, I was there. My son bears the scars of war and is disabled by this hellish war. We confronted evil and won.

Iraq is free? Millions of Iraqi's are free? Really? According to who? Maybe we should ask the Iraqi's if this is how they feel.

I know it won't always be like this, and I hope and pray things begin to change quickly.

I am so sorry for your son. That is my point, nobody wins, we all lose.

[bagdaddy]

Andy3978,

So, would you like to tell me what it is that we won?

Freedom for millions of Iraqis. A chance to control their destiny. God does answer pray. Give thanks for the blessings of freedom. Pray mercy and grace for those who have and are suffering because of this war.

[emmet]

I feel “we won” another country that the International Bankers could put another central bank into. Another bank, like America that the people do not own or have a say in how it is ran. Another country that the International Bankers can setup a democracy. Thomas Jefferson told us that a democracy is the most vile form of government ever created by man. It is just another form of dictatorship. We have also “won” the right to watch the International Bankers go into more countries (Iran, Nigeria, North Korea for some) using the UN and the US to do the dirty work so the Bankers can set up their banks.

Whoever owns the “money” rules. Just look at the US.

[bagdaddy]

Iraq is free? Millions of Iraqi's are free? Really? According to who? Maybe we should ask the Iraqi's if this is how they feel.

I know it won't always be like this, and I hope and pray things begin to change quickly.

I am so sorry for your son. That is my point, nobody wins, we all lose.

Thanks.

Soon our Iraqi friends will be protesting a horrible clueless government. I call this a victory for the people of Iraq. They could not protest like this during Saddam. M has behaved very poorly, indeed. However, the people have a remedy and can remove him from office. By saying 'won' I mean to give all the credit to those who have sacrifice, including you and your family, for the cause of freedom.

[ncdoughboy]

I am not understanding your link or your point. Please elaborate.

Iraq-we won --Vietnam we chose to loose. The constant diatribe-- Bush lied people died is so silly. Bush is a lair, Chaney is a thief, Rumsfeld is this, Halliburton that. When will you look at the truth. I am not a fan of any of these guys but the demography without fact and historical context can't be any more boring and just plane silly.

And what you are saying is that our current administration is being truthful? We can't even get a birth certificate from this clown.

Hilarious:

[tileman1814]

You say "Iraq we won". What exactly was won?

I get to witness first hand Iraqi children who are burned beyond recognition, who have lost their mothers, and their fathers, sisters and brothers.There are over 2.5 million orphans in Iraq because "We won". I get to see raw sewage all over a once beautiful country, because "We won". I also get to see millions of Iraqi refugees all over the world now, because "We won." I also have gotten to see the horrible condition it has left thousands of American soldiers, also burned and without limbs. Again, thousands of American children left without mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.

Bush lied, people died is silly? What is the truth according to you?

Please tell me, what is it that "We won?"

You say Bush lied?You are wrong!!You should watch the news a little closer before making such claims.Read on!!

Semper Fi !!!

The defector who convinced the White House that Iraq had a secret biological weapons programme has admitted for the first time that he lied about his story, then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war.

Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, codenamed Curveball by German and American intelligence officials who dealt with his claims, has told the Guardian that he fabricated tales of mobile bioweapons trucks and clandestine factories in an attempt to bring down the Saddam Hussein regime, from which he had fled in 1995.

"Maybe I was right, maybe I was not right," he said. "They gave me this chance. I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime. I and my sons are proud of that and we are proud that we were the reason to give Iraq the margin of democracy."

The admission comes just after the eighth anniversary of Colin Powell's speech to the United Nations in which the then-US secretary of state relied heavily on lies that Janabi had told the German secret service, the BND. It also follows the release of former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld's memoirs, in which he admitted Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction programme.

The careers of both men were seriously damaged by their use of Janabi's claims, which he now says could have been – and were – discredited well before Powell's landmark speech to the UN on 5 February 2003.

The former CIA chief in Europe Tyler Drumheller describes Janabi's admission as "fascinating", and said the emergence of the truth "makes me feel better". "I think there are still a number of people who still thought there was something in that. Even now," said Drumheller.

In the only other at length interview Janabi has given he denied all knowledge of his supposed role in helping the US build a case for invading Saddam's Iraq.

In a series of meetings with the Guardian in Germany where he has been granted asylum, he said he had told a German official, who he identified as Dr Paul, about mobile bioweapons trucks throughout 2000. He said the BND had identified him as a Baghdad-trained chemical engineer and approached him shortly after 13 March of that year, looking for inside information about Saddam's Iraq.

"I had a problem with the Saddam regime," he said. "I wanted to get rid of him and now I had this chance."

He portrays the BND as gullible and so eager to tease details from him that they gave him a Perry's Chemical Engineering Handbook to help communicate. He still has the book in his small, rented flat in Karlsruhe, south-west Germany.

"They were asking me about pumps for filtration, how to make detergent after the reaction," he said. "Any engineer who studied in this field can explain or answer any question they asked."

Janabi claimed he was first exposed as a liar as early as mid-2000, when the BND travelled to a Gulf city, believed to be Dubai, to speak with his former boss at the Military Industries Commission in Iraq, Dr Bassil Latif.

The Guardian has learned separately that British intelligence officials were at that meeting, investigating a claim made by Janabi that Latif's son, who was studying in Britain, was procuring weapons for Saddam.

That claim was proven false, and Latif strongly denied Janabi's claim of mobile bioweapons trucks and another allegation that 12 people had died during an accident at a secret bioweapons facility in south-east Baghdad.

The German officials returned to confront him with Latif's version. "He says, 'There are no trucks,' and I say, 'OK, when [Latif says] there no trucks then [there are none],'" Janabi recalled.

He said the BND did not contact him again until the end of May 2002. But he said it soon became clear that he was still being taken seriously.

He claimed the officials gave him an incentive to speak by implying that his then pregnant Moroccan-born wife may not be able to travel from Spain to join him in Germany if he did not co-operate with them. "He says, you work with us or your wife and child go to Morocco."

The meetings continued throughout 2002 and it became apparent to Janabi that a case for war was being constructed. He said he was not asked again about the bioweapons trucks until a month before Powell's speech.

After the speech, Janabi said he called his handler at the BND and accused the secret service of breaking an agreement that they would not share anything he had told them with another country. He said he was told not to speak and placed in confinement for around 90 days.

With the US now leaving Iraq, Janabi said he was comfortable with what he did, despite the chaos of the past eight years and the civilian death toll in Iraq, which stands at more than 100,000.

"I tell you something when I hear anybody – not just in Iraq but in any war – [is] killed, I am very sad. But give me another solution. Can you give me another solution?

"Believe me, there was no other way to bring about freedom to Iraq. There were no other possibilities."

Edited February 20, 2011 by tileman1814

[Carrello]

That is a very interesting link. I am almost finished reading George W. Bush's book [/u DECISION POINTS . Before we just accept the voices on the street in all cases, it might be a good idea to look at all the information that is given. Presedent Bush goes into great detail about the WMD. He is very honest about it and how the information that he received and other leaders of the world almost all come to the same understanding about WMD, with the exception of those nations with contract interest in Iraq. It is a good read.

I live in a position that at times "voices on the street" say things about me that I know is not true, yet I can sleep at night because I know that I was right in my actions with the greater judge then the voices on the street. That is the Voice from above. The King of kings and the LORD of lords. We would all be better off if that is where we keep our eyes.

Well, self justification on both parts. How unusual.

[tkc]

Yes you're right . We should have left Saddam in power right? Thats what it sounds to me that you suggest. I suppose belittling women, Saddam's sons picking which schoolgirl the feel like raping is acceptable for you right? Perhaps those who disagreed with Saddam getting dropped in vats of boiling oil is your speed? Acceptable isnt it?

Yea, shiit happens in war, but it is a hell of a lot better in the long term than the 30 years of brutality Saddam imposed.

Perhaps you can share with the US Service Personnel who got killed, disfigured, and maimed how you feel that their sacrifices were not appreciated or necessary. Yea you're right, Saddam was a better choice, should have left him there to do what he wished. maybe you'd have no problem when your 14 year old daughter came home saying how Udai & Qusai gang banged her.

According to that logic, Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini, Stalin and all the other swell guys shouldn't have been confronted and defeated because of the collateral damage. Think in broader terms next time and see the bigger picture.

BRAVO Andy !!!!!!!!!!!!!! +1

[Slaydadea]

I am not understanding your link or your point. Please elaborate.

Iraq-we won --Vietnam we chose to loose. The constant diatribe-- Bush lied people died is so silly. Bush is a lair, Chaney is a thief, Rumsfeld is this, Halliburton that. When will you look at the truth. I am not a fan of any of these guys but the demography without fact and historical context can't be any more boring and just plane silly.

I'm the poster, not the writer. This author is from Australia. Point is, these are non US views being broad cast around the world. Glad I posted it. I have learned a great deal from our DV folks. I'd like to say thanks to all for your views, opinions, logic, and patriotism. It's not real polite to beat someone up for posting news. For the red bomb throwers, turn the channel if I doesn't suit you.

[Rogue Knight]

I am not understanding your link or your point. Please elaborate.

Iraq-we won --Vietnam we chose to loose. The constant diatribe-- Bush lied people died is so silly. Bush is a lair, Chaney is a thief, Rumsfeld is this, Halliburton that. When will you look at the truth. I am not a fan of any of these guys but the demography without fact and historical context can't be any more boring and just plane silly.

If you were to do some research, if it were not for Pesudent Bush- you or any of us for that matter would never even had this opportuntity. He played a huge part in" the plan of the RV "and gave us also Executive Order 10333 giving Americans the right to own Iraqi Dinar and invest in Iraq's currency future. You should really take alook before biting the hand that feeds you. Don't think for one second the current administartion will try to claim full credit for Bush"s success when we are cashing in because of his plan.

[ac63corvette]

No body wins a war. One side just looses more than the other.

[bagdaddy]

If you were to do some research, if it were not for Pesudent Bush- you or any of us for that matter would never even had this opportuntity. He played a huge part in" the plan of the RV "and gave us also Executive Order 10333 giving Americans the right to own Iraqi Dinar and invest in Iraq's currency future. You should really take alook before biting the hand that feeds you. Don't think for one second the current administartion will try to claim full credit for Bush"s success when we are cashing in because of his plan.

I think you and I are on the same page. You are misunderstanding my point. I voted for W. I want just the facts and the truth-no spin. The present admin, as you skilfully point out, will try to take our dinar as well as the credit for the success of Iraq. I had the distaste of taking with Joe Bite-Me at on of the DFAC's in the Green Zone about all the successes in Iraq. He seemed to take credit for Iraq when he and his party did everything to harm our efforts. This should all be about principle not celebrity. When a politician does something right he should thanked and when he screws up he should be criticized. GO RV!