What if we're wrong?

[messenger]

Ezekial 18:4 says that the soul DIES. It does not live forever. So either the bible is totally lying or Jesus is. Which one is it? Oh and what is hell? FIND me the scripture where it says a soul burns forever.

Correct. The soul dies, not the spirit. Matt 25:41 Then the King will turn and say, "away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. Jude 1:7, Rev 21:8.

The question is: What if we're wrong?

The Bible, Jesus or God don't lie.

I totally agree with you, the soul does die. There is a difference between soul and spirit. Hebrews 4:12 tells us so. Jesus' spirit lived on, as do all believers'.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

I hope I've answered your question, Bane.

IMPRESSIVE!

[tevye02]

Messenger:

You have got to be kidding me??? Really??? I am very firm in my beliefs and I dont disagree you on the message but how it is delivered.

We are called to sow our seeds on fertile ground my friend, not rocky soil. This to me is the essence of the parable - there is a time and there is a place for evangelism.

This is neither!.

By all means share you faith but dont offend with it! By doing so you are creating rocky soil.

This is an INVESTMENT forum. Treat it as such and if your faith comes up, then you have fertile ground to work from.

Just my 23.4 Dinar

[BANE]

Still haven't given me the scripture I asked for. No where in the bible does it say a soul OR a spirit burns forever. SHOW ME!

[Rv soon]

Ah but JESUS said he is coming quickly. Not God. Did Jesus die? Of course. Can God die? Habbakuk 1:12 Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. O Jehovah, for a judgment you have set it; and, O Rock, for a reproving you have founded it.

It says God CANNOT die. But Jesus did. Therefore Jesus is not God. So Jesus lied.

If I say I am coming over to your house and then don't show up for 2,000 years you would think I had put you off.

I don't no where you are coming from but my lord god Jesus crist is not a llier not only is he Jesus but he is god ,holy sprit, and son of god so when god said know this I will come in the tweklen of an eye and he said go live your life and prepair for the day I come

So just go on with your life and no what ever is going to happen surly will

[messenger]

Still haven't given me the scripture I asked for. No where in the bible does it say a soul OR a spirit burns forever. SHOW ME!

Bane

Go up a couple of posts for the references to eternal. Hell is eternal separation from God, not necessarily eternal burning.

I am impressed with your search of the truth. I wish I had all the answers, no one does, however I have read the Bible cover to cover several times and will help with your search the best I can.

There is no more important choice you have to get right.

Best,

messenger

[jks9779]

Still haven't given me the scripture I asked for. No where in the bible does it say a soul OR a spirit burns forever. SHOW ME!

The actual phrase "your soul will burn in Hell forever" is nowhere to be found in the Bible, however, when the verses referenced above are taken into context with the rest of Scripture, there can be no other alternative. The Bible is very clear about what happens to believers when we die. We are given glorified bodies and we spend eternity in Heaven with Jesus Christ. The Bible is also very clear about what happens to unbelievers, as is mentioned by the verses above that are referenced. Whether it is the soul or the spirit that goes to Hell really doesn't matter since the pain and torment of Hell will be very real and will be very terrible, irregardless.

My personal guess is that it is the spirit that goes to Hell and the spirit that goes to Heaven. The soul dies along with the body. Unbelievers are described as spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13), while only believers are said to be spiritually alive (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26). If we are spiritually dead when we die, we go to hell. If we are spiritually alive when we die, we go to heaven.

Bane, I would ask that you be careful not to discredit the entire account of the Bible based on the fact that it doesn't say word for word what you want it to say about one of the many subjects that are covered in the Scriptures. Any wise person would tell you that that is foolish. Like I said earlier, the Bible is very clear about the torment of Hell. That it is eternal. That it is fire. That it is painful. Whether it is your soul, spirit, or heck even your physical body that experiences that pain shouldn't really make much of a difference.

[Dickerd]

this is a dinar investment forum not jesus investment forum believe what you wont im religious but i dont push my belivefs where they dont belong just know when and where too dont make it seem like you have something to say about dinar then sneek jesus in that not right

[BANE]

The actual phrase "your soul will burn in Hell forever" is nowhere to be found in the Bible, however, when the verses referenced above are taken into context with the rest of Scripture, there can be no other alternative. The Bible is very clear about what happens to believers when we die. We are given glorified bodies and we spend eternity in Heaven with Jesus Christ. The Bible is also very clear about what happens to unbelievers, as is mentioned by the verses above that are referenced. Whether it is the soul or the spirit that goes to Hell really doesn't matter since the pain and torment of Hell will be very real and will be very terrible, irregardless.

My personal guess is that it is the spirit that goes to Hell and the spirit that goes to Heaven. The soul dies along with the body. Unbelievers are described as spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13), while only believers are said to be spiritually alive (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26). If we are spiritually dead when we die, we go to hell. If we are spiritually alive when we die, we go to heaven.

Bane, I would ask that you be careful not to discredit the entire account of the Bible based on the fact that it doesn't say word for word what you want it to say about one of the many subjects that are covered in the Scriptures. Any wise person would tell you that that is foolish. Like I said earlier, the Bible is very clear about the torment of Hell. That it is eternal. That it is fire. That it is painful. Whether it is your soul, spirit, or heck even your physical body that experiences that pain shouldn't really make much of a difference.

The verses above and ONLY those verses you can put it to a burning hell.

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death"

So it's not seperation from God. If you sin and you die you have paid for your sins. You do NOT have to keep paying in a torment like state.

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?

Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

Acquitted! That means you don't have to pay anymore for them.

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?

Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)

Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!

[TaintedMeat08]

this is a dinar investment forum not jesus investment forum believe what you wont im religious but i dont push my belivefs where they dont belong just know when and where too dont make it seem like you have something to say about dinar then sneek jesus in that not right

I don't think I could ever take you seriously with a Pokemon as your picture. Of course punctuation, and proper grammatical eloquence could never hurt. I'd still be stuck on the Pokemon though....

[jks9779]

The verses above and ONLY those verses you can put it to a burning hell.

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death"

So it's not seperation from God. If you sin and you die you have paid for your sins. You do NOT have to keep paying in a torment like state.

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?

Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

Acquitted! That means you don't have to pay anymore for them.

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?

Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)

Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!

It is very important that we always read Scripture in context. Proof-texting verses to try and make them fit into our own interpretation of Scripture is very dangerous. For example:

You're right about Romans 6:23. The wages of sin ARE death. We all sin. We all deserve death. However, the idea that death is what satisfies God's wrath cannot be drawn from Romans 6:7. Here's the full context of the verse:

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. "

Now, when read in full context, Paul is not saying that death satisfies the penalty for sin, He is only saying that death frees believers from the clutches of sin.

Being spiritually dead IS in fact separation from God. A man without Christ is spiritually dead. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

Hell IS separation from God since it is described as the second death. The book of Revelation speaks of a “second death,” which is a final (and eternal) separation from God. Only those who have never experienced new life in Christ will partake of the second death (Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8).

And about Jeremiah 7:31, context doesn't seem to be an issue since you've provided enough in your quote, it's just your interpretation that is a little illogical. God is referring to child sacrifice, which is definitely something that he detests. It is a sin. God hates all sin. He is holy.

Your illustration and the point you tried to make of it are not taking into account that God is just. Yes, He is love and He is merciful. He's allowing us to live isn't He? But He is also holy and just.

We cannot begin to understand God’s justice unless we first understand sin. Sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4) and iniquity (Daniel 9:4-5; Micah 2:1; James 3:6). It embodies everything contrary to God’s holy nature and is offensive to Him. Thus, sin is a crime against God and justice demands a penalty of death and separation from Him for it (Romans 1:18-32; 2:5; 3:23). But God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth to pay that penalty for us (Romans 5:8-11; 6:23) and made salvation available to all who believe in His name (John 1:12; 3:15-17; 20:31).

God’s own righteousness is provided as a gift to sinners who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and is based upon His grace and mercy in response to our faith (Romans 3:23-26; Ephesians 2:3-7). His mercy and grace are not in spite of His justice, but because of it. He loved us so much that despite the fact that our sin demands our death, He sent His Son to be our substitute upon the cross, thus demonstrating that His justice was not violated, but instead satisfied (1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9).

As for the future, the book of Revelation reveals the justice of God in all its glory during the end times. When the saints watch the destruction of the earth, their song will be of God’s righteous judgment upon the inhabitants for their ultimate sin of rejecting Him (Revelation 11:16-18; 15:3-4; 16:7; 19:1-4).

Again, context is very important and can drastically change the meaning of a verse if it is applied incorrectly. I'll continue to pray that the Lord enlightens you with the truth as you search His Word.

In Christ,

[messenger]

The verses above and ONLY those verses you can put it to a burning hell.

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death"

So it's not seperation from God. If you sin and you die you have paid for your sins. You do NOT have to keep paying in a torment like state.

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?

Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

Acquitted! That means you don't have to pay anymore for them.

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?

Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)

Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!

Bane Romans 6:7 NLT When we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin.

As I stated earlier, no one has all the answers. Hopefully this helps though. When Eve was about to eat the 'apple', she stated that God said don't eat it or you will die. Did God lie? No, often God speaks in spirit terms. Eve did die spiritually, as we all are now born separated from God. Jesus came to connect us again, through His sacrifice.

We choose to accept or reject God's free gift. He stated His will is that none should perish and states that hell was not made for man, but for satan and his demons. But by rejecting God (Jesus) we choose our final destination.