Guns don't kill people

[luv2hike27]

Tiffany, Ive been a career LEO for 24 years, I wont bore you with my credentials, I will suffice to say that I am an advanced firearms instructor. I teach everything at my dept, I don't doubt your skills, please don't doubt mine. Shooting holes in paper is awesome, I do it too, but shooting at people that are shooting back at you is no comparison.

And yes I want all of my guns afforded to me by the Constitution, because I carry one daily in defense of my Community and Country,( I have had the privilege of being on the Vice President of the United States inner security detail twice in my career.) I have a lifetime hunting license, I hunt, I target shoot I train. I want to protect myself and my family and my elderly neighbors.

I have the the U.S. Constitution saved on my Blackberry, yes I read it.

If you have the time, I suggest reading Tom Brokaws book titled The Greatest Generation. I have read it cover to cover its an en lighting book about people in that generation from around the world, what they endured during WW 2 and what they made of themselves after. Its a collection of short stories.

As for gun control Adolf Hitler did that, then lead the lambs to slaughter. I will stick with the Constitutional rights that I was born with thank you.

[Tiffany23]

Sir,

I do not think we have any disagreements between us. I fully respect your view. I merely wished to state my views. You respectfully stood up for the American's place in history, which I too cherish and honor. My problem was with the Gentlemen that did not respect my fellow countryman and the great nation of Great Britian. If I have cause thee any ill will, then my apologies for that, as that was not my intent. May we end such trivial concerns and agree that we both fully respect each other's right to voice our own opinon on such matters?

P.S. I love Tom's book and have read it several times. Like I said, both my Grandfather's were members of that AWESOME generation. I couldn't agree with you more.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Tiffany23

[USMC_2674]

Sir, I thank you for approaching this discussion with courtsey and logic. You are a Gentleman. May I engage you in a discussion base soley on logic? I say logic, because I wish to dispense with emotion. As an American we are both fully aware of our rights to bear arms. However, that was based on the fact that the militia of the time wished to be able to defend themselves against imperial agression. I hope we can agree that we no longer have that concern.

Based on logic, why is it that Americans wish to maintain the use of privately held firearms; 1. Because they wish to hunt. 2. Because they wish to take part in target practice or similar hobbies. 3. For self protection. Is there others? If not, may we continue? If an individual wishes to bear arms for reason 1 or 2, then what is the harm of keeping the firearm locked up in a secured armory, similar to what the military does with their weapons. When you wish to take them out for recreational/hunting use, you are allowed to do so. However, if it is because of reason number 3, ahh then the facts stare one in the face. If you have a strict gun control law...less people die. period. You have your right to your opinion but you can not change the facts. See my stats/facts above. You in essence extinguish the reason for number 3 by having a strinct gun control policy. By the way, I love to eat elk, turkey and pheasants. I love to target practice...I bet I can outshoot about any one of you that isn't currently in the military with my 357, 12 guage or 30x6. But at the end of the day, I'm willing to put my toys away and go home.

Do I think I convinced any of you to turn in your guns... absoluely not. But I stood up for what I believe in and didn't back down.

You forgot #4:

Defense of Tyranny. An unarmed country can be controlled by a Tyrannical government. We have seen it over and over again throughout History, modern and ancient; a country and its people are disarmed before they are brutally molested and controlled. This point is the PRIMARY reason that the 2nd Amendment exists. It has nothing (or at least very little) to do with hunting.

As to your point of #3,

While I enjoy hunting and target shooting, I keep and bear arms to defend myself and my family and to assure that the United States of America is always a free land. As a disabled vetern, you cannot tell me that I would be safer without firearms in the world. I would be easily beaten by any 20 year old thug who had a mind to throw me around the room.

A firearm is an equalizer. It puts you, me, and the 85 year old Grandmother of twelve on even grounds with 16-30 year old criminals who would do us harm.

Semper Fidelis,

Kent

USMC (ret)

[beefcake]

violent criminal offenders are the the ones that don't see a gun a knife a pipe or any other dangerous or deadly weapon as a threat, to them when they see a weapon of any kind it might as well be a tube of tooth paste, these peoples brains process a threat as little more then them brushing there teeth. My point is these people kill people and if you ever face a person like this taking a human life is again little more to them then brushing there teeth so in my opinion guns do kill people guns kill violent criminal offenders.

[bald1]

Violence has been around since the beginning of time. Until we defeat the Devil there will always be evil. The first century Christians saw more of this than anyone. They were persecuted by means more brutal than we can imagine. For example crucified upside down, stoned, burnt alive as street lights beheaded. When evil takes control violence will be obtained by any means necessary. If its a gun, knive, car, pipe bomb whatever they have available. Our founders realized the need to have armed citizens mainly for protection of an over zealous government but also for personal protection. You will always have some nutjob who will have in their heart the desire to harm innocent people. I believe in stacking the odds in my favor of protecting myself and my family. I am armed citizen. I legally carry a sidearm. Until our Risen Savior returns there will always be evil lurking in the shadows to inflict harm. Until then I will be armed.

[Soldiering4U]

holy crap who let all the liberals in... look if they try taking my guns away I will quit the Army and find some place that still believes in it's citizens oh wait America is the last place that does... hmmm... well I guess they will have to pry it from my cold dead hands like my other brothers in arms say...

ya I am a gun toatin' bible readin' hill billy clinging to my God and Guns, that Obama warned you about

Edited January 14, 2011 by Soldiering4U

[NotReallyTex]

Ya I am a gun toatin' bible readin' hill billy clinging to my God and Guns, that Obama warned you about

:lol: :lol:

[deenar]

Let's look at the facts: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Out of 62 countries ranked for homicide, the US is number #24, while the UK is ranked #46 and our Canadian friends are #44. Sandy lives in a MUCH safe country than we do. If you look, out of the first world countries, the US has the highest ranking (except maybe Costa Rica). I agree that if someone is out to kill someone they will find a way. But the facts prove that a strict gun control law DOES lowers muders per capita. You can say anything you want, but the facts are the facts.

I grew up around firearms all my life. I own several myself. But I'd give mine up in a heart beat if I knew the ******* down the street probably doesn't have one either. Pls don't mark me as a liberal or hater of the #2 Amendment. I love America...I just love Americans more and want to find a better way so we stop killing each other.

I'm not sure what that is suppose to mean, but I think it was intended to be rude. If it wasn't for the Brits, you'd be speaking possibly German, French, Russian or Japanese right now. They have fought with us on every major (and most minor) military operation in the last hundred years. Shame on you.

Pls withdraw that statement and act like a Gentleman or Lady.

The problem with your arguement is that you assume the******* down the street abides by the law and gives up his guns. Chances are that the ****** down the street can get a gun whether legal or not. Drugs are illegal, but I bet the ****** down the street can get his hands on some.

[deenar]

Sir, I thank you for approaching this discussion with courtsey and logic. You are a Gentleman. May I engage you in a discussion base soley on logic? I say logic, because I wish to dispense with emotion. As an American we are both fully aware of our rights to bear arms. However, that was based on the fact that the militia of the time wished to be able to defend themselves against imperial agression. I hope we can agree that we no longer have that concern.

Based on logic, why is it that Americans wish to maintain the use of privately held firearms; 1. Because they wish to hunt. 2. Because they wish to take part in target practice or similar hobbies. 3. For self protection. Is there others? If not, may we continue? If an individual wishes to bear arms for reason 1 or 2, then what is the harm of keeping the firearm locked up in a secured armory, similar to what the military does with their weapons. When you wish to take them out for recreational/hunting use, you are allowed to do so. However, if it is because of reason number 3, ahh then the facts stare one in the face. If you have a strict gun control law...less people die. period. You have your right to your opinion but you can not change the facts. See my stats/facts above. You in essence extinguish the reason for number 3 by having a strinct gun control policy. By the way, I love to eat elk, turkey and pheasants. I love to target practice...I bet I can outshoot about any one of you that isn't currently in the military with my 357, 12 guage or 30x6. But at the end of the day, I'm willing to put my toys away and go home.

Do I think I convinced any of you to turn in your guns... absoluely not. But I stood up for what I believe in and didn't back down.

A little over a year ago, our house was burglarized. They tore the entire house apart. They paid special attention to my wife's underwear drawer. I hate to think what would have happened to my 14 year old daughter who was supposed to be home at the time of the burglary but at the last minute before I left the house decided to go to a friends house. The only thing that comforts me is that if she were at home when this happened, she knows how to use our 357 magnum.

[cris]

Yeah but kind of hard to kill/knife 20 people in the space of a minute!!! People need to understand that there are mentally ill people in the US who listen to all of the hate speech, political rhetoric, crosshairs on maps, etc. and that their words have power. Sometimes that power is to tip someone over the edge and commit a crazy act like killing completely innocent people, BTW including an absolutely adorable 9 year old child. You might feel differently if that was YOUR child shot to death for absolutely no reason whatsoever!

Hmmm....so, get rid of guns, knives, and freedom of speech then

thank god I still live in a country where I can say how foolish this attitude is

on the other hand....if you start with demo's....im all for it

[NotReallyTex]

Yeah but kind of hard to kill/knife 20 people in the space of a minute!!! People need to understand that there are mentally ill people in the US who listen to all of the hate speech, political rhetoric, crosshairs on maps, etc. and that their words have power. Sometimes that power is to tip someone over the edge and commit a crazy act like killing completely innocent people, BTW including an absolutely adorable 9 year old child. You might feel differently if that was YOUR child shot to death for absolutely no reason whatsoever!

If you are a ninja you could do it. Jes saying....

But seriously there are mentally challenged people everywhere. It is not fair to all of us to have our guns taken away because of what could happen. As far as what happened in Arizona, it appears a lot of people, people in authority, KNEW this guy was dangerous. This is not the first time nor will it be the last, that someone is going to do something terrible. Someone who had been noticed for his odd behavior but yet the danger was totally ignored. Yes I do blame the shooter but as the mother of a challenged child I think we as parents, teachers, counselors, police, or whoever comes in contact with a person like that should be more vigilant.

[Tiffany23]

Esteem Ladies and Gents,

At the risk of torking more of you off, which I certainly don't intend to do. As many of you have had discussion with me on other topics and we have always been in agreement..I also consider many of you my friends. So pls read this with an open mind . As I do wish to clarify a few things.

1. The original discussion thread was about guns not killing anymore than knives. My hotlink provides stats that proves that countries with strict gun control laws have far fewer murders per capita. That's it. Plain and simple. No discussion needed. Many of you offered scenarios about why it wouldn't work here...but it does work...it's just a matter of how it was enforced. In the UK the bobbies don't even have guns...here in the US the renta cop at Walmart does. Why?

2. Some of you think that I am a bleeding heart liberal that wishes to take your guns away. I think I'd have a better chance of taking your free speech away than that. You love your right to bear arms. Ok. Got it. I'll shut up. You win.

3. The thing that royally pissed me off, is when someone who has no knowledge of history trys to shovel out BS. Then turns around and insults an entire country and culture. Many of you did not see what the Gentlemen wrote because the Mods removed it (thankfully). (What a great bunch of Superheros they are!). No matter what, I KNOW you are good respectful people and agree that that type of behavior is NEVER welcome here.

4. Lastly, I also need to retract a statement and eats some crow. I've just an "OK shot". All of those guns I spoke of have such a kick that I usually shoot quiet high and the next day I'm sore!. So pls excuse my stupid attempt to draw attention to myself. And again, I hope I didn't tork too many of you off. Because I really like this site and I don't want ANYONE to think I don't value their opinion.

Friends?

[eyesofahkingtoldyouso]

Sir, you have insulted my Queen...I'm a dual citizen of both America and the UK. My father is a COL in the US AF and my mother a British subject. I find your behavior both demeaning and extremely rude. I only wish I were able to meet with you personally so I could look you in the eye and say that to your face. It is people like you that the Europeans are talking about when they label us "Ugly American". Good Day Sir...I hope you are proud of who and what you represent.

Tiffany i am sorry to have to tell u this but Americans dont have a queen or a king. Thats what the Declaration of Independance was all about. It gave us all sovereignty.

[eddieisme]

YOUR child shot to death for absolutely no reason whatsoever!

You said it yourself. No reason. Not because of political speech. Not because of cross-hairs on maps. It was JARED LOUGHNER'S fault and JARED LOUGHNER'S fault alone!!!!

[luv2hike27]

Esteem Ladies and Gents,

At the risk of torking more of you off, which I certainly don't intend to do. As many of you have had discussion with me on other topics and we have always been in agreement..I also consider many of you my friends. So pls read this with an open mind . As I do wish to clarify a few things.

1. The original discussion thread was about guns not killing anymore than knives. My hotlink provides stats that proves that countries with strict gun control laws have far fewer murders per capita. That's it. Plain and simple. No discussion needed. Many of you offered scenarios about why it wouldn't work here...but it does work...it's just a matter of how it was enforced. In the UK the bobbies don't even have guns...here in the US the renta cop at Walmart does. Why?

2. Some of you think that I am a bleeding heart liberal that wishes to take your guns away. I think I'd have a better chance of taking your free speech away than that. You love your right to bear arms. Ok. Got it. I'll shut up. You win.

3. The thing that royally pissed me off, is when someone who has no knowledge of history trys to shovel out BS. Then turns around and insults an entire country and culture. Many of you did not see what the Gentlemen wrote because the Mods removed it (thankfully). (What a great bunch of Superheros they are!). No matter what, I KNOW you are good respectful people and agree that that type of behavior is NEVER welcome here.

4. Lastly, I also need to retract a statement and eats some crow. I've just an "OK shot". All of those guns I spoke of have such a kick that I usually shoot quiet high and the next day I'm sore!. So pls excuse my stupid attempt to draw attention to myself. And again, I hope I didn't tork too many of you off. Because I really like this site and I don't want ANYONE to think I don't value their opinion.

Friends?

FRIENDS! And if your ever in the neighborhood I ll take you to the range.

[Plumb Crazy]

Well i am from the UK, and even though i would like to own a gun as i have enjoyed shooting all my adult life, whilst serving in the Army and working as a contractror, i have never felt the need to have one for my own saftey whilst home in UK.

Citizens bearing arms is simply a matter of national security. But boy do i love to shoot em!

[MooCow]

Yeah but kind of hard to kill/knife 20 people in the space of a minute!!! People need to understand that there are mentally ill people in the US who listen to all of the hate speech, political rhetoric, crosshairs on maps, etc. and that their words have power. Sometimes that power is to tip someone over the edge and commit a crazy act like killing completely innocent people, BTW including an absolutely adorable 9 year old child. You might feel differently if that was YOUR child shot to death for absolutely no reason whatsoever!

I do not even think this guy knew the first thing about politics or even followed politics. He was not a crazy left wing or a crazy right wing...he was apolitical. Yes the events are sad, but to say that someone saying I've got them in my cross-hairs is going to cause someone to go kill someone is ridiculous. Some people are crazy, they will be crazy no matter what. Stop trying to use this as your scapegoat to why things happen. Maybe you should focus on how the school should of had that guy in front of a psychologist or committed? I could say "I am so mad! I am going to kill him!" That just means I am mad. That does not mean I am going to lay even a hand on them or have even the slightest desire to do so. People have said stuff like this probably since the inception of language. Awwwwwwwwwwww feelings clouding my judgment. Get some rationale and actually fix the issue and stop pointing ridiculous fingers. In the mean time pray for the tragedy that occurred. What happened was a really really awful.

[Tiffany23]

Luv2hike...I'll definitely take you up on that...and thank you for being a reasonable (and sweet) person.

[luv2hike27]

I live by the motto, "kill em with kindness, but don't take any crap"

And your welcome Tiffany, my pleasure

[Tiffany23]

OMG...I LOVE that saying...may I use it!

Hey...how come you haven't enabled your profile so you can take messages? I'd like to chat with you and I promise I will NEVER bring up the words "gun control"! ha ha

[luv2hike27]

yes you may! Didn't enable because alot of times i am on different pc's or from my Blackberry.