passion of the christ THE STORM IS UPON US

[AdamHenry]

3 hours ago, keylime said:

I think that's where you are right and wrong. You're right that's probably due to religion that seeks to control people. You are wrong in your concept and understanding of who God is. And that due mostly to religion.

It is God that created this world. It is God who created man and gave it to him. It is man who gave it away and separated himself from his Creator. And it is only in God's loving kindness, what the Bible calls CHESED, that He took it upon Himself to return us to Him, without us having to do anything but receive it.

It is religion that says you have to do this and not do that. God says " Even to those that believe on the name of Jesus shall be saved." That is not a malevolent God. That is a Daddy, or as the Bible says a Daddy Daddy. An Abba Father who only wants to embrace us and have a relationship with us and keep us close to Him. Jesus said to the Jews as he carried His cross to His death, " I longed to gather you like hen does her chicks, but you wouldn't have me."

And "No greater thing can a man do than to lay down his life for his friends."

Does that sound like a hateful malevolent being?

Are you a parent? When your child disobeys you do you have to reprimand or punish them? God is Holy. More Holy than you can imagine. So Holy He was willing to come to earth in the flesh and die the most tortured death so we don't have to. To give us His Holiness and righteousness so we can have right standing with Him again. He did this because we couldn't and can't. He took on our sinfulness on the cross and bore the punishment of that sin so we don't have to.

That doesn't sound like a mean old nasty God to me.

God is love. Sin has consequences. Just ask those sitting in prison for murder for life. Are the Judges and juries malevolent for handing out those sentences or are they just?

How much more just is God?

To make a way for us to avoid punishment altogether if only we believe and receive it.

The Bible says one day, "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of the Father." Yes, even the atheist who rejects His existence will have to give an account and confess before Jesus. 

Again, you are right about religion but wrong about God. Don't let religion keep you from a relationship with our Daddy. He is not malevolent. He is merciful.

God is love. And the Bible says "Perfect Love, Jesus, casts out fear." 

And makes it clear that " Jesus did not come into the world to condemn it but that the world may be saved."

Be saved. Not punished. And in God's mercy He has allowed each individual to determine their own fate, so to speak.

God made the way. We only have to follow it.

Jesus said, " I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Me." 

So simple. Even a caveman can receive. Ha!

And that's your perception of the information you have and your life experiences. I am what I am from my life experiences and the information I've gathered over time. I agree to disagree with you on the above.

[AdamHenry]

6 hours ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

And do you give me rubies for nearly every post in service to the community or because you hate me?

I don't give you Ruby's on every post, but you get them when you deserve them. And I'll admit, that's been quite often recently. My world doesn't revolve around you, and you have nothing to do with the community I speak of. 

[AdamHenry]

3 hours ago, coorslite21 said:

 

We all will gasp that last breath at some point....before you do... you might consider this....CL

 

John 14:6 Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.” We can't get to heaven by works, because God doesn't pick favorites.

I understand that verse CL, thank you. I was once a Christian. A big factor in me rejecting the religion was from reading the Bible in its entirety. So while I understand that verse, I believe it to be mythology. 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

MATHEW 7-6

[AdamHenry]

1 hour ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

MATHEW 7-6

I sure won't be throwing any pearls to pigs, but I do enjoy some tasty pulled pork.

[cranman]

My question is , and always has been, how can the universe not always have been BUT God has been and always will be? God was always there? Always will be? How is that possible? How was this diety not created? 

 

These are not meant to be  insulting or agitating questions.  Just meant to hear opinions and beliefs.

[Markinsa]

7 hours ago, AdamHenry said:

That's why there are a plethora of things in and around our solar system including all of the elements necessary for life.

 

Except one thing, God.  God created the elements and created life from them.  Man has never been able to create life.

.

7 hours ago, AdamHenry said:

I understand that verse CL, thank you. I was once a Christian. A big factor in me rejecting the religion was from reading the Bible in its entirety. So while I understand that verse, I believe it to be mythology. 

 

I was Born Again Aug-September 1980.  I was going to Church 3 times a week and a Bible Study on Fridays.  In 1981, I lost touch with my Christian Fellowship when I was transferred to Japan.  I fell away from my faith, and I developed questions about my faith.  Things just didn't line up for me:

 

How do you reconcile the Science of the Age of the Earth and the Bible?

UFO's

How do you explain Dinosaurs?

The reliability of the Bible.

 

The above questions stayed with me until I started going back to Church in 2003.  I finally got the answers I was seeking after going to a Bible Study.  For 23 years, I was away from Our Lord, how much I wished I had that time back, but He was always with me and I didn't know it at the time.  I pray you find the truth, much faster that I did. 

 

I believe we  are in the last days don't take too long, the clock is ticking.

 

 

[Markinsa]

1 hour ago, cranman said:

My question is , and always has been, how can the universe not always have been BUT God has been and always will be? God was always there? Always will be? How is that possible? How was this diety not created? 

 

These are not meant to be  insulting or agitating questions.  Just meant to hear opinions and beliefs.

 

Those are good questions, but at the end of the day, does it really matter?  My first priority is Jesus Christ. Was He a Real Person?  Do I believe HE is who HE says, He is? or Was He Insane?  If He was not insane, then nothing else matters. 

 

My current position is, that I believe Jesus is who HE says HE is.  If that is true, then I believe the Bible, Jesus tells us the Scriptures Point to Him.

 

[Jhn 5:39 NLT] 39 "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

 

If that statement is True, then EVERYTHING in the Bible is True. (not including bad translations) 

 

With all that said, all my questions, though they would help me better understand God, those questions aren't relevant.  I'll just wait until I'm with the Lord and then I'll ask, or perhaps all of that information will be made available to us.  But until that time, we'll just have to wait for those answers.

 

 

[keylime]

2 hours ago, cranman said:

My question is , and always has been, how can the universe not always have been BUT God has been and always will be? God was always there? Always will be? How is that possible? How was this diety not created? 

 

These are not meant to be  insulting or agitating questions.  Just meant to hear opinions and beliefs.

Hi Cranman.

 

I think you are trying to reconcile God as if He is subject to our timeline, and in fact, time itself. He says, He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. We don't really know what part of the universe God has created that has "always been." He says He was not created. Mind boggling? Yes. But that is some of the amazing things that make Him God. That make Him above and beyond His creation. You are trying to understand Him in a finite concept. He is outside that. He created time. He created what you question as how can it be possible that He was not created? That's a human carnal understanding of who and what God really is. And I am so glad He is. All powerful. All knowing. Omnipresent. He knows every sparrow that falls. He knows every blade of grass that grows. And outside of that He knows what it took to create all of that. He spoke it all into existence and it continues because His word never fails. He set it all in motion and He is the one who will end it and then recreate it again for the rest of eternity.

I love that we can't fathom how incredible He must be to have always been but everything seen and unseen He created. And yet, He loves and cares about everything in your daily miniscule life. You can't find your car keys? Ask Holy Spirit to show you where they are. A meeting got cancelled? Ask Him what He wants you to do now. I constantly talk to Him. I communicate with Him about everything. 

He says, "If you seek me, I will be found by you." Faith pleases Him. He wants to be a part and in fact, would love to be the center of your life. No matter what you do, He wants you to invite Him to join you. And He will.

He is an intimate, loving, caring, kind, strong, powerful, etc. Being who wants to be your best friend.

And my relationship, like any, is one I work out every day. 

The great thing is, as you get to know Him, you get to know His sense of humor. He's hilarious.

You get to know the things He loves and the things that bless Him. You truly seek to please Him because you are so overwhelmingly grateful for the very breath He blesses you with there is nothing you wouldn't do to put a smile on His face and make Him laugh. We are His kids. He wants to hug you and bounce you on His knee. Wipe away your tears, and lift you up, blessing you with all things in heaven and earth. 

He says in Psalms 37, "I will give you the desires of your heart, and if you commit your way to me, I will bring them to pass."

That's huge. He puts the dreams I have for my life in my heart, and when I commit to getting to know Him, He brings those dreams to pass, and not just those but surprise ones I don't even know I want.

I love my Abba Father more than I can say. I love my Lord and Saviour Jesus more than I can express. And Holy Spirit, forget about it. He is my constant companion and friend. My helper and my comforter. 

 

That's who God is to me. And that's who He wants to be to everyone, if they would only seek Him.

 

 

[keylime]

10 hours ago, AdamHenry said:

And that's your perception of the information you have and your life experiences. I am what I am from my life experiences and the information I've gathered over time. I agree to disagree with you on the above.

And that's okay because as I said above, it is a merciful God, a loving God that allows you to reject Him and disagree with what I said above. He has done His thing, and now He lets you do yours. And He lets you know ahead of time, whatever you do reject or accept, these are the consequences for it so that there can be no misunderstanding. You cannot go before Him and say, "But I never knew." You knew. You just decided to do things your way. 

It's because I have an intimate relationship with Him. He's my best friend. My constant companion. I am always aware that He is loving me, that He is always hoping I include Him in what I am doing. My perception is from that relationship. Much like your perception of your best friend, your wife, your brother, or whomever is extremely important in your life that you spend your time with, that you spend your intimacy with. He is the most important person in my life and that love we share infuses and blesses every other relationship I have in my life. I'm a better everything because of Him. I could not even fathom living without Him. And honestly, I don't know how people go through life without having a relationship with God. I know I wouldn't. When the hard times come, I lean on Him and know it's going to be alright. I have what the Bible calls, "A peace that passes all understanding." When everything and everyone is coming apart at the seams, I have peace knowing my Daddy has it handled before it even happened. I love living everyday because everyday I live with Him. I tell Him, "Daddy, I don't know what the day holds, but I know you hold the day." I just love turning everything over to Him then ask Him how can I bless Him. Amazing. Really. An amazing life I live with Him. I wish everyone could experience that same intimacy that I share with Him if they would only answer His knock at their heart.

 

 

[AdamHenry]

16 hours ago, keylime said:

Are you a parent? When your child disobeys you do you have to reprimand or punish them? God is Holy. More Holy than you can imagine. So Holy He was willing to come to earth in the flesh and die the most tortured death so we don't have to. To give us His Holiness and righteousness so we can have right standing with Him again. He did this because we couldn't and can't. He took on our sinfulness on the cross and bore the punishment of that sin so we don't have to.

That doesn't sound like a mean old nasty God to me.

God is love. Sin has consequences. Just ask those sitting in prison for murder for life. Are the Judges and juries malevolent for handing out those sentences or are they just?

How much more just is God?

To make a way for us to avoid punishment altogether if only we believe and receive it.

I'm sorry, I must re-hash this section. I am a parent, and I stand by my statement of a malevolent god. I'm there, in person, to correct my children and teach them. There is nothing they could do that would make me want to torture them for eternity. 

 

Please don't compare parenting from a loving parent to your malevolent god. It's not even close, and it's insulting. 

 

Judges and juries handing out life sentences??? Those prisoners aren't set on fire for eternity, but they receive three hots and a cot daily. Not even close to a reasonable comparison. Again, malevolent, psychopathic god.

 

As you can see today, people in charge of the world are partially, and/or fully narcissists or psychopaths. Same type of person that seized and wanted to retain power when civilizations were forming. How better to control others than have them believe that they better be good or they'll burn forever? Malevolent god.

 

Why do I not believe in hell? I understand what fire is and why it hurts. If we have can burn forever, we're indestructible. If we're indestructible, fire won't hurt, it's not doing any damage. It only hurts us in the here and now because your brain sends you signals to get away from whatever is causing you damage. Fire is energy and causes your skin to react with whatever it is around. It is destroyed. 

 

Freeing myself from this toxic religion was the best thing that ever happened to me. 

[PrehistoricMan]

4 hours ago, AdamHenry said:

I'm sorry, I must re-hash this section. I am a parent, and I stand by my statement of a malevolent god. I'm there, in person, to correct my children and teach them. There is nothing they could do that would make me want to torture them for eternity. 

 

Please don't compare parenting from a loving parent to your malevolent god. It's not even close, and it's insulting. 

 

Judges and juries handing out life sentences??? Those prisoners aren't set on fire for eternity, but they receive three hots and a cot daily. Not even close to a reasonable comparison. Again, malevolent, psychopathic god.

 

As you can see today, people in charge of the world are partially, and/or fully narcissists or psychopaths. Same type of person that seized and wanted to retain power when civilizations were forming. How better to control others than have them believe that they better be good or they'll burn forever? Malevolent god.

 

Why do I not believe in hell? I understand what fire is and why it hurts. If we have can burn forever, we're indestructible. If we're indestructible, fire won't hurt, it's not doing any damage. It only hurts us in the here and now because your brain sends you signals to get away from whatever is causing you damage. Fire is energy and causes your skin to react with whatever it is around. It is destroyed. 

 

Freeing myself from this toxic religion was the best thing that ever happened to me. 

You are correct.  Hell doesnt exist.  It isnt taught in the Bible.  The ones that want to believe in hell are psychotic.  Serial killer material if you will.  Real psychopaths.  They read into the Bible what they want it to say.  Your logic is very sound.  I ask them all the time what burns in a hell?  If they say the body, well, how can it burn forever?  I think a body can burn up inside of a minute or two.  IF they say the soul, well...ezekial 18:4 says a soul can die.  Therefore the soul is not immortal to be able to burn in a hell.  

 

Dont worry.  God did not create a burning hell.  When the bible talks of fire, it is trying to convey what people back then knew about what fire does.  IT burns things up.  They turn to ash and are not around anymore.  Period.  So when it says someone will be cast into it, it means they will be destroyed.  Their life is over for them.  It is NOT an eternal torturing and suffering like these wackos want you to believe.  

 

What did God tell Adam and Eve would be the punishment for their sin?  An everlasting hellfire and damnation?  No.  He simply said they would die.  

[keylime]

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You are correct.  Hell doesnt exist.  It isnt taught in the Bible.  The ones that want to believe in hell are psychotic.  Serial killer material if you will.  Real psychopaths.  They read into the Bible what they want it to say.  Your logic is very sound.  I ask them all the time what burns in a hell?  If they say the body, well, how can it burn forever?  I think a body can burn up inside of a minute or two.  IF they say the soul, well...ezekial 18:4 says a soul can die.  Therefore the soul is not immortal to be able to burn in a hell.  

 

Dont worry.  God did not create a burning hell.  When the bible talks of fire, it is trying to convey what people back then knew about what fire does.  IT burns things up.  They turn to ash and are not around anymore.  Period.  So when it says someone will be cast into it, it means they will be destroyed.  Their life is over for them.  It is NOT an eternal torturing and suffering like these wackos want you to believe.  

 

What did God tell Adam and Eve would be the punishment for their sin?  An everlasting hellfire and damnation?  No.  He simply said they would die.  

Well you just pulled the rug out from under AdamHenry's malevolent God theory, therefore he has no reason not to return to Him. Since there is no hell to torment you with gnashing of teeth but you are simply destroyed and you cease to exist then AdamHenry can now have his Come to Jesus moment.

No hell. No malevolence. In his way of believing that means no excuse not to turn back to God who would be all loving and not overly punishing.

[keylime]

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You are correct.  Hell doesnt exist.  It isnt taught in the Bible.  The ones that want to believe in hell are psychotic.  Serial killer material if you will.  Real psychopaths.  They read into the Bible what they want it to say.  Your logic is very sound.  I ask them all the time what burns in a hell?  If they say the body, well, how can it burn forever?  I think a body can burn up inside of a minute or two.  IF they say the soul, well...ezekial 18:4 says a soul can die.  Therefore the soul is not immortal to be able to burn in a hell.  

 

Dont worry.  God did not create a burning hell.  When the bible talks of fire, it is trying to convey what people back then knew about what fire does.  IT burns things up.  They turn to ash and are not around anymore.  Period.  So when it says someone will be cast into it, it means they will be destroyed.  Their life is over for them.  It is NOT an eternal torturing and suffering like these wackos want you to believe.  

 

What did God tell Adam and Eve would be the punishment for their sin?  An everlasting hellfire and damnation?  No.  He simply said they would die.  

 As to fire burning something up. It did a good job of burning up that bush Moses met with. Ha!

You really need to stop trying to understand the things of God beyond our carnal these are the laws of physics mentality. God created these laws but is not subject to them. He can create a bush that doesn't burn up. He can create a body and place that burns forever. He is God. He stopped the sun from moving forward. He can do whatever He wants. He doesn't go by what you think can or can't be done. He doesn't check to see if PHM believes He can do a thing or is it alright or logical for Him to do it.

Thank God.

[yota691]

6 hours ago, AdamHenry said:

Freeing myself from this toxic religion was the best thing that ever happened to me. 

I don't rely on religion or man. It about having a relationship with the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. What the BIBLE states...BIBLE= Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth...

[keylime]

7 hours ago, AdamHenry said:

I'm sorry, I must re-hash this section. I am a parent, and I stand by my statement of a malevolent god. I'm there, in person, to correct my children and teach them. There is nothing they could do that would make me want to torture them for eternity. 

 

Please don't compare parenting from a loving parent to your malevolent god. It's not even close, and it's insulting. 

 

Judges and juries handing out life sentences??? Those prisoners aren't set on fire for eternity, but they receive three hots and a cot daily. Not even close to a reasonable comparison. Again, malevolent, psychopathic god.

 

As you can see today, people in charge of the world are partially, and/or fully narcissists or psychopaths. Same type of person that seized and wanted to retain power when civilizations were forming. How better to control others than have them believe that they better be good or they'll burn forever? Malevolent god.

 

Why do I not believe in hell? I understand what fire is and why it hurts. If we have can burn forever, we're indestructible. If we're indestructible, fire won't hurt, it's not doing any damage. It only hurts us in the here and now because your brain sends you signals to get away from whatever is causing you damage. Fire is energy and causes your skin to react with whatever it is around. It is destroyed. 

 

Freeing myself from this toxic religion was the best thing that ever happened to me. 

I'm a parent as well and I know I seek to discipline my children when I have to in that the punishment fits the disobedience. You compare our terms of punishment and what we think is the best sentence for a crime to a punishment that has eternal consequences but you cannot understand or fathom the so called crime that has been committed.

God is Holy. God is Righteous. God is Just. You are understanding Him from your finite, short lived, worldly perspective and think you are in a position to judge the creator of all things who is without beginning or end. You honestly think you are in a position to judge the one who gives you your breath and say with that very same breath I don't believe in you because you are not nice. You are malevolent because my life perspective tells me so.

Job tried that and God lovingly corrected his stinkin thinkin. Afterwards, Job said I'm going to shut up now.

[keylime]

PHM...You truly have zero idea what it means to be a sinner separated from God from an eternal perspective or even from God's perspective. How our sinfulness and His Holiness can't and will never be reconciled. Only He does and that's why He had to do something so drastic that it meant Jesus coming to earth and dying a tortured death on the cross. And there was no other way. That's the thing. Sin couldn't just be covered by the blood of bulls and goats, it had to be completely done away with by the blood of Jesus. You can't even imagine how horrible the sin problem is for that to have been the only answer but you stand there and speak and judge on it in ignorance and zero understanding and rail against the very one who paid the price yelling it's not fair the punishment of eternal damnation! While you reject the fact that He made a way for the free gift of eternal life. You really need to reset your compass.

[DinarDavo]

1 hour ago, keylime said:

PHM...You truly have zero idea what it means to be a sinner separated from God from an eternal perspective or even from God's perspective. How our sinfulness and His Holiness can't and will never be reconciled. Only He does and that's why He had to do something so drastic that it meant Jesus coming to earth and dying a tortured death on the cross. And there was no other way. That's the thing. Sin couldn't just be covered by the blood of bulls and goats, it had to be completely done away with by the blood of Jesus. You can't even imagine how horrible the sin problem is for that to have been the only answer but you stand there and speak and judge on it in ignorance and zero understanding and rail against the very one who paid the price yelling it's not fair the punishment of eternal damnation! While you reject the fact that He made a way for the free gift of eternal life. You really need to reset your compass.

 

@Keylime ...here is an extract from a teaching by A. W. Tozer that may help to explain certain issues when communicating the truth found in scripture. Blessings!

 

THE CASE FOR GOING ON INTO THE PROMISED LAND
                                  By A.W. Tozer

You can always test the quality of religious teaching by the enthusiastic reception it receives from unsaved men. If the natural man receives it enthusiastically, it is not of the Spirit of God. Paul says plainly that the natural man cannot know spiritual things. To him, spiritual things are plain foolishness (see 1 Cor. 2:14). 

There is a type of religious teaching understood, received by and perfectly logical to the natural man. But the natural man does not know that which is of the Spirit of God. He does not have the faculty to receive it. The natural man is of this world. He may be in perfect health and have an IQ of 180. He may be as handsome as a Greek statue or if a woman, a perfect example of fine womanhood. Or he might be a perfect example of the young American. The natural man, though he is in this state, is unblessed and out of grace. 

Contrary to the natural man is the spiritual man. This is the Christian who is mature in his faith, led, taught and controlled by the Holy Spirit, and to whom the Spirit of God can speak.

[coorslite21]

My last thought on this....

 

Somehow we all exist...was it a higher deity...or just by chance?

 

We all have free choice...we can believe in God...Mankind...or even skittles and buttercups.

 

That choice might involve the question of the life of an unborn vs. an abortion....

 

Perhaps socialism or capitalism....

 

So a couple of Atheists have expressed their position on their  beliefs here...they have studied "religion" and that is their conclusion.....

 

Best wishes to them going forward.....( and yes we are very like minded in many areas and I do appreciate the postings they make)

 

You might consider when looking death in the face... taking those last gasps of breath that you will still have that free choice.....right up to the end...CL

 

 

[PrehistoricMan]

9 hours ago, keylime said:

PHM...You truly have zero idea what it means to be a sinner separated from God from an eternal perspective or even from God's perspective. How our sinfulness and His Holiness can't and will never be reconciled. Only He does and that's why He had to do something so drastic that it meant Jesus coming to earth and dying a tortured death on the cross. And there was no other way. That's the thing. Sin couldn't just be covered by the blood of bulls and goats, it had to be completely done away with by the blood of Jesus. You can't even imagine how horrible the sin problem is for that to have been the only answer but you stand there and speak and judge on it in ignorance and zero understanding and rail against the very one who paid the price yelling it's not fair the punishment of eternal damnation! While you reject the fact that He made a way for the free gift of eternal life. You really need to reset your compass.

Keylime got so triggered he had to comment three times.  haha....

 

Right there he cannot see the irony.  You say the FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.  If one is burning forever in a hell, is that not eternal life?  So why would God give a gift to wicked people?  

 

Romans 6:23

New International Version For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. New Living Translation For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. English Standard Version For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Berean Study Bible For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.   So....if we pay for our sins at death as this verse says....what are we um, burning for in a hell?  The payment for sins is death.  So when we die we have PAID for our sins.  No need for extra punishment as these psychos state.     bUt wHaT aBoUt lAkE of fIrE_ See folks....The psychos that love torture always confuse the lake of fire WITH hell claiming it is the same thing.   Defend Jehovah's Witnesses: Rev. 20:13,14 - How Can Death and Hades be Thrown Into the "Lake of Fire"? What Does This Scripture Mean? (defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com) Rev. 20:13,14 - How Can Death and Hades be Thrown Into the "Lake of Fire"? What Does This Scripture Mean?   http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ce07yxn2loY/UMPOnFl784I/AAAAAAAABHw/PjE4EXedNGQ/s200/bp2.jpg Rev. 20:13,14 says, "The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." (KJV) Some have asked, "How is it possible for Death and Hell to be thrown into a lake of fire and what does this mean? What Really is "Hell"? First, it would be beneficial to understand what "Hell" (Hades; Sheol) in the Bible really means. Many mistakenly believe that "hell" is a fiery place of punishment for sins. But the word "hell" in the same verses in other translations read "the grave," "the world of the dead," etc. Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says this concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Sheol in Old Testament times referred SIMPLY TO THE ABODE OF THE DEAD.” So the Hebrew word she'ohl´ and its Greek equivalent hai´des refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the COMMON GRAVE OF DEAD MANKIND. (For more, see: "Why is the word "Hell" an unsatisfactory translation of the original Hebrew and Greek Bible words "She´ohl" and "Hai´des"?"; Search For Bible Truths) Revelation Chapter 20 Written in Figurative or Symbolic Terms The book of Revelation is a book full of symbols and Revelation Chap. 20 itself is full of figurative (not literal) language. So when the rest of the Bible clearly shows how when someone dies, they are not conscious of anything (Ps. 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5) and that the condition of the dead is one of inactivity - likened to a deep sleep (Ps. 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60; 1 Cor. 7:39; 15:51; 1 Thess. 4:13), it would seem reasonable to conclude that what was written at Revelation chap. 20 is indeed phrased in figurative or symbolic terms. Rev. 20:14 shows that Hell is not the same as the lake of fire. So when Hell (Hades) is finally CAST INTO the lake of fire (which symbolizes eternal destruction), this means that Hades, the common grave of mankind, is totally destroyed. It goes out of existence, being completely emptied of its dead. In addition to resurrecting all faithful worshipers of God, the Bible says that He will also mercifully bring back even unrighteous ones: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15)

[AdamHenry]

2 hours ago, coorslite21 said:

My last thought on this....

 

Somehow we all exist...was it a higher deity...or just by chance?

 

We all have free choice...we can believe in God...Mankind...or even skittles and buttercups.

 

That choice might involve the question of the life of an unborn vs. an abortion....

 

Perhaps socialism or capitalism....

 

So a couple of Atheists have expressed their position on their  beliefs here...they have studied "religion" and that is their conclusion.....

 

Best wishes to them going forward.....( and yes we are very like minded in many areas and I do appreciate the postings they make)

 

You might consider when looking death in the face... taking those last gasps of breath that you will still have that free choice.....right up to the end...CL

 

 

Thank you CL. Well put as always. I appreciate your input and insights.

[keylime]

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Keylime got so triggered he had to comment three times.  haha....

 

Right there he cannot see the irony.  You say the FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE.  If one is burning forever in a hell, is that not eternal life?  So why would God give a gift to wicked people?  

 

Romans 6:23

New International Version For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. New Living Translation For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. English Standard Version For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Berean Study Bible For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.   So....if we pay for our sins at death as this verse says....what are we um, burning for in a hell?  The payment for sins is death.  So when we die we have PAID for our sins.  No need for extra punishment as these psychos state.     bUt wHaT aBoUt lAkE of fIrE_ See folks....The psychos that love torture always confuse the lake of fire WITH hell claiming it is the same thing.   Defend Jehovah's Witnesses: Rev. 20:13,14 - How Can Death and Hades be Thrown Into the "Lake of Fire"? What Does This Scripture Mean? (defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com) Rev. 20:13,14 - How Can Death and Hades be Thrown Into the "Lake of Fire"? What Does This Scripture Mean?   http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ce07yxn2loY/UMPOnFl784I/AAAAAAAABHw/PjE4EXedNGQ/s200/bp2.jpg Rev. 20:13,14 says, "The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." (KJV) Some have asked, "How is it possible for Death and Hell to be thrown into a lake of fire and what does this mean? What Really is "Hell"? First, it would be beneficial to understand what "Hell" (Hades; Sheol) in the Bible really means. Many mistakenly believe that "hell" is a fiery place of punishment for sins. But the word "hell" in the same verses in other translations read "the grave," "the world of the dead," etc. Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says this concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Sheol in Old Testament times referred SIMPLY TO THE ABODE OF THE DEAD.” So the Hebrew word she'ohl´ and its Greek equivalent hai´des refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the COMMON GRAVE OF DEAD MANKIND. (For more, see: "Why is the word "Hell" an unsatisfactory translation of the original Hebrew and Greek Bible words "She´ohl" and "Hai´des"?"; Search For Bible Truths) Revelation Chapter 20 Written in Figurative or Symbolic Terms The book of Revelation is a book full of symbols and Revelation Chap. 20 itself is full of figurative (not literal) language. So when the rest of the Bible clearly shows how when someone dies, they are not conscious of anything (Ps. 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5) and that the condition of the dead is one of inactivity - likened to a deep sleep (Ps. 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60; 1 Cor. 7:39; 15:51; 1 Thess. 4:13), it would seem reasonable to conclude that what was written at Revelation chap. 20 is indeed phrased in figurative or symbolic terms. Rev. 20:14 shows that Hell is not the same as the lake of fire. So when Hell (Hades) is finally CAST INTO the lake of fire (which symbolizes eternal destruction), this means that Hades, the common grave of mankind, is totally destroyed. It goes out of existence, being completely emptied of its dead. In addition to resurrecting all faithful worshipers of God, the Bible says that He will also mercifully bring back even unrighteous ones: “There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15)

Actually I tried to edit as I am on my cell phone and am trying to write as I got ready for work. But it would not let me edit, timed out I guess, so I had to type my thoughts as they came. 

For me, you obviously think the death the Bible is talking about is ceasing to physically live. I believe it is a spiritual death eternally separated from God. The Bible says the unbeliever has a dark spirit. That dark spirit does not die as you think of it. When Jesus told the Pharasees anyone who receives His words would live as Abraham and all the prophets did. They called Him a liar and said Abraham and the prophets are dead. But Jesus says they live. 

But, Jesus explained, you will surely die in your sins if you don't believe my words. 

That death is the spiritual death that unbelievers will experience. That death is when  at the Great White Throne Judgement Jesus will tell the unbeliever, " Get away from Me. I never knew you."

Separation and cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

But, hey, you believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I believe.  

Oh yeah He is going to resurrect both the righteous and the wicked. One for eternal rewards and one for eternal damnation. 

We are both going before the Lord, whether the Bema Seat or the White Throne Judgement.

I'm going before my Lord at the Bema Seat to receive my rewards before He tells me, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into my rest."

I am so looking forward to that day.

[cranman]

Off subject but,

 

If the universe is always expanding,  what is it expanding into? And if the universe is expanding then it must have an edge.  If it has an edge the it is truly not infinite.

 

Is it expanding into another realm created

by God?

 

Thoughts?

[keylime]

9 hours ago, DinarDavo said:

 

@Keylime ...here is an extract from a teaching by A. W. Tozer that may help to explain certain issues when communicating the truth found in scripture. Blessings!

 

THE CASE FOR GOING ON INTO THE PROMISED LAND
                                  By A.W. Tozer

You can always test the quality of religious teaching by the enthusiastic reception it receives from unsaved men. If the natural man receives it enthusiastically, it is not of the Spirit of God. Paul says plainly that the natural man cannot know spiritual things. To him, spiritual things are plain foolishness (see 1 Cor. 2:14). 

There is a type of religious teaching understood, received by and perfectly logical to the natural man. But the natural man does not know that which is of the Spirit of God. He does not have the faculty to receive it. The natural man is of this world. He may be in perfect health and have an IQ of 180. He may be as handsome as a Greek statue or if a woman, a perfect example of fine womanhood. Or he might be a perfect example of the young American. The natural man, though he is in this state, is unblessed and out of grace. 

Contrary to the natural man is the spiritual man. This is the Christian who is mature in his faith, led, taught and controlled by the Holy Spirit, and to whom the Spirit of God can speak.

I know. I have shared Jesus with all kinds of folks. Some receive right away. Some thoughtfully go their way. Some get angry. Holy Spirit gives me discernment when to share and when to back off. Before I answer someone I prayerfully seek Holy Spirit. I have learned in a discussion such as this the answer can be rejected by the person you are having the discussion with but the Lord is actually reaching out to someone else who He knows will be reading. So I may not reach the one I am talking to but that may not be who the message is for. So I just obediently write what Jesus puts on my heart and leave the results to Him.

God bless and thank you for sharing. I definitely like Tozer. Full of wisdom.

[keylime]

1 minute ago, cranman said:

Off subject but,

 

If the universe is always expanding,  what is it expanding into? And if the universe is expanding then it must have an edge.  If it has an edge the it is truly not infinite.

 

Is it expanding into another realm created

by God?

 

Thoughts?

I just believe God's creation is never stagnant. What He puts into motion continues until, like the ocean against the shore, it is meant to go no further.