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God is opinion and doesn't care if it's name is Capitalized... or does She?


rvmydinar
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No Prehistoricman, not going to battle you. Already proven Y'shua is God and have read JW rationale and don't believe it anymore than you believing Y'shua is God.

 

The biggest difference is the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are based on the Bible teachings of Charles Taze Russell—founder of the Bible Student movement—in the late 1800s and successive presidents of the Watch Tower Society, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and Nathan Homer Knorr. Since 1976 all doctrinal decisions have been made by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, a group of elders at the denomination's headquarters. And 

further the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in a very complex, work-oriented, two- class system of salvation. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to earn their way into the “New Order” or “the reward of eternal life”, and most fear that they will fall short. In their view, only a very limited number of people – 144,000 – will enter the higher levels of paradise.

 

Thankfully believing in Christ Jesus, I'm granted grace and justified and no amount of works will get me to heaven nor do I need to worry about being one of 144,000 elect given the billions having lived since Yehovah first made man. I'm satisfied with His grace and assurance of a place with Him in paradise. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

So there is no savior besides God eh?  Judges 3:9 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And the children of Israel called to LORD JEHOVAH, and LORD JEHOVAH raised up a Savior for the children of Israel, and Athneil, son of Qanaz, the brother of Kalab who was younger than he, delivered them

 

Oops.  Here Athneil is called a SAVIOR.....Oh, I guess by Markinsas logic THAT makes Athneil to be God Almighty eh?  

 

:lol: You're grasping at straws...  The verses you mentioned do not indicated these people are God.  However, the verses I provided in my previous posts do indicate Jesus is God and Savior.  You need to remember to take these verses in Context of the previous and following verses and chapters and Bible as a whole.  You may want to read this article:  Why Is Reading the Bible in Context Important?

 

19 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Because AS HE STATES if ANYONE is called a SAVIOR, then they are automatically God Almighty.  

 

That's another lie. You just can't help yourself can you?

 

19 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Notice folks how Markinsa will NOT say if Methodists baptists or catholics are a true religion?  Because if he told you what he really thinks....he would lose your support system" rel="">support.  Because I am sure some of you subscribe to those religions.  

 

You tell me the below:

 

On 9/16/2021 at 9:25 PM, PrehistoricMan said:

I am saying lets knock it off and just discuss 2 verses at a time.

 

Now you're trying to cause division?  You know Satan does that a lot.  If you ever become a Christian, you should seek a deliverance ministry to help you with your cult issues.

 

[Jde 1:17-19 NASB20] 17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts." 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

 

20 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

What does it mean when Phil. 2:6 says that Jesus was in God's form?

 

Again, you need to read these scriptures in Context, you can't get around Phil 2:6.  The mention of  God in these verses is Strong's G2316, Theos = God.  

 

If Jesus wasn't God, why would He have the need to empty Himself?  And why would He have to humble Himself, if He wasn't God?  He would automatically know to humble himself before God.  

 

Com'on man,  Your logic is flawed and corrupted by your cult.

 

.

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On 9/20/2021 at 9:14 AM, nstoolman1 said:

:facepalm2:

Having trouble with the logic?  Let me explain it to you again.  If there is not another savior but God and in Peter it calls Jesus the savior, then by your mentally challenged theory of trinity, that means Jesus is God.  BUT In Judges it names TWO other guys as the savior.  That would mean they too are God according to YOUR logic.

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On 9/20/2021 at 6:47 PM, Sage449 said:

No Prehistoricman, not going to battle you. Already proven Y'shua is God and have read JW rationale and don't believe it anymore than you believing Y'shua is God.

 

The biggest difference is the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are based on the Bible teachings of Charles Taze Russell—founder of the Bible Student movement—in the late 1800s and successive presidents of the Watch Tower Society, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and Nathan Homer Knorr. Since 1976 all doctrinal decisions have been made by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, a group of elders at the denomination's headquarters. And 

further the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in a very complex, work-oriented, two- class system of salvation. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to earn their way into the “New Order” or “the reward of eternal life”, and most fear that they will fall short. In their view, only a very limited number of people – 144,000 – will enter the higher levels of paradise.

 

Thankfully believing in Christ Jesus, I'm granted grace and justified and no amount of works will get me to heaven nor do I need to worry about being one of 144,000 elect given the billions having lived since Yehovah first made man. I'm satisfied with His grace and assurance of a place with Him in paradise. 

 

 

Except I am not a JW.  See if you had READ the previous pages instead of just jumping in the water NOT prepared, you would already have seen that.  I dont care about Russell.  It seems you are into 100 year old dead guys though.  I am not.  Based solely on the Bible, you have lost.  If you are going to jump into a debate, come prepared sir.

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On 9/20/2021 at 10:45 PM, Markinsa said:

 

 

:lol: You're grasping at straws...  The verses you mentioned do not indicated these people are God.  However, the verses I provided in my previous posts do indicate Jesus is God and Savior.  You need to remember to take these verses in Context of the previous and following verses and chapters and Bible as a whole.  You may want to read this article:  Why Is Reading the Bible in Context Important?

 

 

That's another lie. You just can't help yourself can you?

 

 

You tell me the below:

 

 

Now you're trying to cause division?  You know Satan does that a lot.  If you ever become a Christian, you should seek a deliverance ministry to help you with your cult issues.

 

[Jde 1:17-19 NASB20] 17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts." 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

 

 

Again, you need to read these scriptures in Context, you can't get around Phil 2:6.  The mention of  God in these verses is Strong's G2316, Theos = God.  

 

If Jesus wasn't God, why would He have the need to empty Himself?  And why would He have to humble Himself, if He wasn't God?  He would automatically know to humble himself before God.  

 

Com'on man,  Your logic is flawed and corrupted by your cult.

 

.

Again not a JW.  Why do you insist on that lie?  Eh, phony christians like you lie all the time though so I guess it comes with the territory.  

 

No YOU are the liar.  You posted those verses to marry Jesus is a savior and there is no other savior other than God so Jesus must be God.  Yet when I bring out there in Judges that God has raised up saviors, it shoots a HUGE hole into your beliefs.  YOU believe the savior is God.  So I am not lying.  You are.  Just having a title of savior doesnt make one God.  

 

Jesus emptied himself to LIVE as a man on the earth.  Why does one HAVE to be God to empty himself?  An angel could have done that too.  That is not an airtight case you have.  

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33 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Jesus emptied himself to LIVE as a man on the earth.  Why does one HAVE to be God to empty himself?  An angel could have done that too.  That is not an airtight case you have.  

 

The problem with your explanation is the Bible, it doesn't say Angel. It says GOD, you know Yaweh, JEHOVAH. :lol::

 

[Phl 2:6-8 NASB20] 6 who, as He [already] existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself [by] taking the form of a bond-servant [and] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross.

 

33 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

No YOU are the liar.  You posted those verses to marry Jesus is a savior and there is no other savior other than God so Jesus must be God.  Yet when I bring out there in Judges that God has raised up saviors, it shoots a HUGE hole into your beliefs.  YOU believe the savior is God.  So I am not lying.  You are.  Just having a title of savior doesnt make one God. 

 

 

:lol: You're grasping at straws...  The verses you mentioned do not indicate these people are God.  However, the verses I provided in my previous posts do indicate Jesus is God and Savior.  You need to remember to take these verses in Context of the previous and following verses and chapters and Bible as a whole.  You may want to read this article:  Why Is Reading the Bible in Context Important?

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On 9/20/2021 at 8:14 AM, nstoolman1 said:

:facepalm2:

 

No trouble with sound logic. 

 

Definition of face-palm

 

intransitive verb

: to cover one's face with the hand as an expression of embarrassment, dismay, or exasperation
 
You exasperate me with your answers. You answer literal questions with hyperbole and hyperbole questions with literal answers. 
 
Not to be confused with  a :shrug:. Shrug indicating confusion or question. 
 
 
 
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@PrehistoricMan

 

 

[Zec 12:10 NASB20] 10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of pleading, so that they will look at Me whom they pierced; and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

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1 hour ago, Markinsa said:

@PrehistoricMan

 

 

[Zec 12:10 NASB20] 10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of pleading, so that they will look at Me whom they pierced; and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

Yeah this is talking of Jesus when he will be the messiah.  It is a prophecy.  Notice not one word states he is god there.

 

Oh by the way WHAT was Satan BEFORE the garden of Eden?  I wonder if you will answer this.

 

Look at OTHER versions of Phillipians 2:6


New American Standard Bible
who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

NASB 1995
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

NASB 1977
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Amplified Bible
who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

Christian Standard Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

American Standard Version
who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He who, while he was in the form of God, did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

 

They ALL say that Jesus could NOT grasp EVER to try to be God.

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11 hours ago, Markinsa said:

[Zec 12:10 NASB20] 10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of pleading, so that they will look at Me whom they pierced; and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

 

9 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Yeah this is talking of Jesus when he will be the messiah.  It is a prophecy.  Notice not one word states he is god there.

 

The only part you have correct in the above post is that the verse is a Prophecy about Jesus, but what you are missing is that the above verse is God talking.  Notice the capitalized Him and Me in the verses above and below, that is straight from the Bible. 

 

"I will pour out on the house of David"

"they will look at Me whom they pierced"

"and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son"

"they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

 

9 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

They ALL say that Jesus could NOT grasp EVER to try to be God.

 

You really need to take a reading comprehension course, they do not say that.

 

 

9 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Oh by the way WHAT was Satan BEFORE the garden of Eden?  I wonder if you will answer this.

 

Satan is an angel and has always been an angel, but let's keep on topic.

 

.

 

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7 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

 

The only part you have correct in the above post is that the verse is a Prophecy about Jesus, but what you are missing is that the above verse is God talking.  Notice the capitalized Him and Me in the verses above and below, that is straight from the Bible. 

 

"I will pour out on the house of David"

"they will look at Me whom they pierced"

"and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son"

"they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

 

 

You really need to take a reading comprehension course, they do not say that.

 

 

 

Satan is an angel and has always been an angel, but let's keep on topic.

 

.

 

You say Satan is an angel and will always be one.  Um, WHO is the Bible talking about at 2 corinthians 4:4?  This IS on topic by the way.

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11 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You say Satan is an angel and will always be one.  Um, WHO is the Bible talking about at 2 corinthians 4:4?  This IS on topic by the way.

 

No, it is not.  And noticed you didn't have a response for my last post.  The scripture below is God talking correct?

 

8 hours ago, Markinsa said:

[Zec 12:10 NASB20] 10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of pleading, so that they will look at Me whom they pierced; and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

 

The only part you have correct in the above post is that the verse is a Prophecy about Jesus, but what you are missing is that the above verse is God talking.  Notice the capitalized Him and Me in the verses above and below, that is straight from the Bible. 

 

"I will pour out on the house of David"

"they will look at Me whom they pierced"

"and they will mourn for Him, like one mourning for an only son"

"they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn."

 

.

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9 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

 

Notice the capitalized Him and Me in the verses above and below, that is straight from the Bible.

 

 

 

 

Hi Mark

 

Just an FYI in regards to using capital letters...that is actually a fairly recent change. This fact is not too well known, most just assume the capitals existed in the early manuscripts, but they didn't.

 

The capitalization of deity pronouns in the Bible is a recent innovation that began less than fifty years ago. For example, the KJV Bible and its later revisions (except for the NKJV) did not capitalize deity pronouns.

 

Also, the original Bible manuscripts in Greek and Hebrew do not capitalize deity pronouns. Hebrew manuscripts do not have capital letters. In Greek manuscripts, the letters are all either capital or lower case.

 

 

Now @PrehistoricMan

 

You've shared some interesting thoughts. I am well aware of the NWT translation, and it actually makes some useful corrections in some areas of translation, etc., which could assist in clearing up some confusion with a few beliefs some people have about biblical teachings.

 

I have never been involved with the JW group, though several have tried to "convert" me, I have no interest in the JW group or any other.

 

That leads me to a question for you...why is it or what is it that causes you to look down your nose or think somehow that only you or your religious group has the "truth"?

 

It is a common claim of course, but why do you try and make others look stupid? What does that accomplish in a discussion such as this? If you feel the need to go there, in reality, it only hurts your attempts.

 

Every group or church claims they possess the "truth", and some attempt to use some extreme methods or tactics  to try and prove that claim, throughout history...so far that has never worked out too well and has caused bloodshed and division within the church, unfortunately. 

 

I think Mark has been much more of a gentleman in his responses to you than you have been in your responses to Mark. Many things you have discussed are worthy of thought...but you lose people when you act arrogant. No one really likes that attitude in reality or someone being so self righteous.

 

I am telling you this not to anger you, but an honest question...why do you and a few others have to get so self righteous or arrogant when discussing biblical matters? Shouldn't sincere people desire to learn from each other rather than trying to act superior to each other?

 

It accomplishes nothing...why not just discuss the matters, respect the responses and continue to, if possible learn something from each other? Usually responses such as these are a sign of feeling threatened, so one tries to dismiss or belittle the other.

 

Deep emotion is involved in discussions such as these, I see no need to disrespect anyone or their thoughts...because that is really all we have are thoughts due to something being written in a book.

 

Just something to think about...if you would like to debate or discuss these matters, just be more respectful, it goes a long way to try and make a point rather than act as if only YOU know the "truth". You and I both know that is not "true". 

 

You are discussing beliefs...not solid evidence, no need at all for being rude or arrogant towards anyone here.

 

You guys have a good weekend!

 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Jim1cor13 said:

 

Hi Mark

 

Just an FYI in regards to using capital letters...that is actually a fairly recent change. This fact is not too well known, most just assume the capitals existed in the early manuscripts, but they didn't.

 

The capitalization of deity pronouns in the Bible is a recent innovation that began less than fifty years ago. For example, the KJV Bible and its later revisions (except for the NKJV) did not capitalize deity pronouns.

 

Also, the original Bible manuscripts in Greek and Hebrew do not capitalize deity pronouns. Hebrew manuscripts do not have capital letters. In Greek manuscripts, the letters are all either capital or lower case.

 

 

Now @PrehistoricMan

 

You've shared some interesting thoughts. I am well aware of the NWT translation, and it actually makes some useful corrections in some areas of translation, etc., which could assist in clearing up some confusion with a few beliefs some people have about biblical teachings.

 

I have never been involved with the JW group, though several have tried to "convert" me, I have no interest in the JW group or any other.

 

That leads me to a question for you...why is it or what is it that causes you to look down your nose or think somehow that only you or your religious group has the "truth"?

 

It is a common claim of course, but why do you try and make others look stupid? What does that accomplish in a discussion such as this? If you feel the need to go there, in reality, it only hurts your attempts.

 

Every group or church claims they possess the "truth", and some attempt to use some extreme methods or tactics  to try and prove that claim, throughout history...so far that has never worked out too well and has caused bloodshed and division within the church, unfortunately. 

 

I think Mark has been much more of a gentleman in his responses to you than you have been in your responses to Mark. Many things you have discussed are worthy of thought...but you lose people when you act arrogant. No one really likes that attitude in reality or someone being so self righteous.

 

I am telling you this not to anger you, but an honest question...why do you and a few others have to get so self righteous or arrogant when discussing biblical matters? Shouldn't sincere people desire to learn from each other rather than trying to act superior to each other?

 

It accomplishes nothing...why not just discuss the matters, respect the responses and continue to, if possible learn something from each other? Usually responses such as these are a sign of feeling threatened, so one tries to dismiss or belittle the other.

 

Deep emotion is involved in discussions such as these, I see no need to disrespect anyone or their thoughts...because that is really all we have are thoughts due to something being written in a book.

 

Just something to think about...if you would like to debate or discuss these matters, just be more respectful, it goes a long way to try and make a point rather than act as if only YOU know the "truth". You and I both know that is not "true". 

 

You are discussing beliefs...not solid evidence, no need at all for being rude or arrogant towards anyone here.

 

You guys have a good weekend!

 

 

 

 

 

Jim, Please read all the previous pages before jumping into this.  You also accuse me of being a jw.  Something I have denied 3 times now.  Which tells me you didnt read a word of what went on prior.  Or you would have seen that Markinsa has compared me to Joe Biden....Yet you do not give him the same advice.  Among other things he has said to me in prior pages.  I will wait until you are all caught up before responding to you.

Also take in mind I am debating around 4 or 5 different people.  No one is on my side.  So forgive me if I am backed up against the corner and say things which might hurt some feelings.  If it was one on one, it would be different.  But most fake christians LOVE to dogpile against a single opponent.

And WHY shouldnt I believe I have the truth AND say that I do?  Why would one not believe what they believve?  I dont get that logic.  The Bible is factual to me.  It is not about beliefs.  One can believe that God is a purple dinosaur....It doesnt make it so.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jim1cor13 said:

Just an FYI in regards to using capital letters...that is actually a fairly recent change. This fact is not too well known, most just assume the capitals existed in the early manuscripts, but they didn't.

 

Thank you Jim, that is good to know.

 

I know you and I have had disagreements in the past, and I want to apologize for any hateful thing I have said to you.  Please forgive me.

 

 

 

.

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2 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

No, it is not.  And noticed you didn't have a response for my last post.  The scripture below is God talking correct?

 

 

.

Yes it is.  It is VERY on topic.  You dont like it because it destroys the narrative you are trying to build.  So WHO is 2 corinthians 4:4 talking about?

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1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You also accuse me of being a jw.  Something I have denied 3 times now.  Which tells me you didnt read a word of what went on prior. 

 

You keep referencing websites that have JW talking points.  What do you expect us to believe, if those are the ONLY websites you draw your support from?  You have said you do not go to a Church, but you must have received your indoctrination somewhere to believe what the JW believe.

 

[Mat 7:20 NASB20] 20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Or you would have seen that Markinsa has compared me to Joe Biden

 

While you may feel that way, I was comparing the JW Talking points you used to Joe Biden.

 

On 8/21/2021 at 8:53 PM, Markinsa said:

Providing a link not so hard was it?  But I gotta tell ya, this is what I got from that defense you just posted.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

No one is on my side.  So forgive me if I am backed up against the corner and say things which might hurt some feelings.  If it was one on one, it would be different.  But most fake christians LOVE to dogpile against a single opponent.

 

You have to ask yourself, why would so many take the time to tell you that you are wrong?  I sincerely believe they see the road you are on and trying to warn you that you are on the wrong path.  I have at times been harsh with you but I did not see any other way to reach you, and I apologize for that.  We should both refer to 1 Peter 3:15 when addressing each other.

 

[1Pe 3:14-16 NASB20] 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE IN DREAD, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always [being] ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who disparage your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Yes it is.  It is VERY on topic.  You dont like it because it destroys the narrative you are trying to build.  So WHO is 2 corinthians 4:4 talking about?

 

I'm sorry I disagree.  Besides, I am constantly hounding you to get you to answer my questions, but you want me to answer an off topic one?  

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Jim, Please read all the previous pages before jumping into this.  You also accuse me of being a jw.  Something I have denied 3 times now.  Which tells me you didnt read a word of what went on prior.  Or you would have seen that Markinsa has compared me to Joe Biden....Yet you do not give him the same advice.  Among other things he has said to me in prior pages.  I will wait until you are all caught up before responding to you.

Also take in mind I am debating around 4 or 5 different people.  No one is on my side.  So forgive me if I am backed up against the corner and say things which might hurt some feelings.  If it was one on one, it would be different.  But most fake christians LOVE to dogpile against a single opponent.

And WHY shouldnt I believe I have the truth AND say that I do?  Why would one not believe what they believve?  I dont get that logic.  The Bible is factual to me.  It is not about beliefs.  One can believe that God is a purple dinosaur....It doesnt make it so.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi @PrehistoricMan

 

I apologize if you feel I accused just you in what I stated. I mentioned you "and a few others" so I was not just targeting you. I can see where you may have thought that.

 

You think I didn't read a word in this thread? I have not followed it word for word of course, but enough to get the feel for how I commented on it. Yes, I am aware when it comes to any biblical discussions, things can get easily out of hand, with everyone insisting on being "right" and of course they will first and foremost protect their beliefs and tend to "pile on" against anyone that challenges the majority. It is called being human.

 

I find it is near impossible to truly have discussions on certain subjects, because some can get so easily offended, rather than view it as a learning experience and the possibility that we have held certain thoughts or beliefs that perhaps were unfounded, etc.

 

Religion and politics are usually a no go because of that, at least for me. Too much emotion and often a defensive posture. Personally, I learned many years to question everything...it is the only way I know how to learn.

 

But that angers people, in many cases, even though my intent is not to anger them, but to offer another possibility, to assist them in learning to THINK for themselves, I care not if they think as I do, we all just need to give sincere thought before blindly being convinced of anything...once we think we "know" something, we tend to close our minds...and when that happens we stop thinking and learning and proceed into protection only mode.

 

So no, it is not just you, but you have consistently responded abrasively so I brought it up to you, and a few others.

 

I have no desire to be pulled into arguments, etc., I just made an observation, not at all just directed at you alone. I just posed the question to you...and "a few others".

 

As for my thoughts, I enjoy a discussion on this subject, if it is respectful. A little about my background...and not material to spark arguments, just some of my experiences and thoughts...my opinions. Nothing more than my opinions based upon my own research, outside the box so to speak.

 

I researched for many years, since the late 1980's in regards to many beliefs and how easy it is for parable, allegory and metaphor's to get twisted so out of context that it breeds some far out ideas IF taken literally and also can breed contempt. When I first began to understand some of these matters, I mentioned them to a few others in my church at the time...it did not go well. :lol: 

 

Of course I finally had to leave because I dared question, and dared to question what was being taught, and apparently that made a few uncomfortable, and no chance given for it to be a potential learning experience.

 

Good thing is, years later, the person that I first told of a few things to, (one of the "elders"), I had found that was contrary to their teaching actually DID end up agreeing with what I was trying to point out. So, apparently, he no longer  thought I was a "heretic". :lol: 

 

But I never went back to that group, not a good idea because there was also too much manipulation and other toxic things within. The same people who claimed to "love" me as a brother, were in reality, just interested in me believing as they did.

 

When I stopped doing that, it became quite the shallow environment in some cases, not with everyone though. Some were genuine and always treated me well...leadership on the other hand, not so much.

 

I was just a young man trying to make sense out of things being taught that no longer made sense to me...and so I stood up, and that usually never ends well when it comes to religious matters and their doctrines and dogma's. But I made a solid case for what I was learning, and some realized that.

 

If we approach the bible with an open mind, as unbiased as possible, there is much benefit to be found...but when we begin to take literal things that are not intended to be taken as such, and we use that to try and justify in some cases, some very twisted ideas or beliefs, it distracts us from the beauty that is staring us in the face, and we begin to use the "letter of the law" to condemn and tear others apart, rather than the actual spirit of the law that has always been founded in LOVE and treating others as you desire to be treated. 

 

If the outcome of our beliefs and ideas are not swallowed up by that love, then we got off track somewhere and are only in a protection mode rather than seeking love. I trust you understand this also.

 

We are told "god is love"...that begs the question, what do some people actually follow? In my user name here, is included "1cor13"...referring to "love never fails".

 

I find too much of modern christianity teaches that it DOES fail, then blames the human and "free will" for that failure. That is not what is taught if we consider the whole message and not just the parts of it that we like, that support our beliefs but are not presented in their full context. 

 

I think that is a grave error and has caused much pain. It is not possible for that love to fail...even punishment has a goal...it is always towards correction. If it were not, and punishment was truly never ending, that would be UNJUST, so we have to learn to avoid that insult, as agape love is never unjust. The term "forever" in scripture has never meant "endless", but people claim that because it is used against people often as a threat.

 

Would ANY human that truly loved their child ever punish them in an "endless" fashion without ever considering any hope for correction and a restoration to a good standing? Of course not...if so, it is unjust and absurd with no purpose.  

 

If we would genuinely focus upon, for example,  Romans 8, we would realize it was NOT we frail humans that made a choice about our path...we were subjected to futility and frailty NOT of our own will...that reveals an entire different story than what most of us were once taught.

 

In my opinion, we should pay attention to this also as a learning point. Man's "free will" or whatever people call it is not and will never be greater than the will of him who actually subjected us to futility and frailty...though some try and teach that placing all responsibility upon creation, rather than the creator.

 

It is difficult to move out of our comfort zone when it comes to religious beliefs...but if we are to truly learn, there is no other choice but to ask questions and be willing to be challenged. Then accept where the path leads us, even if it is not what we believed or thought. Growth comes from asking questions and a willingness to be flexible with an open mind to learn. Not easy when we become "convinced" about something.

 

Just a few of my thoughts, that make sense to me, and may not to anyone else, but that is ok. I respect their thoughts also. The bottom line to me of the message...treat each other as we desire to be treated...and realize that love is the greatest force of all.

 

Ok, enough from me, again sorry if I offended you, I was just making an observation regarding you and a few others as mentioned. Have a good day!

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12 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

Thank you Jim, that is good to know.

 

I know you and I have had disagreements in the past, and I want to apologize for any hateful thing I have said to you.  Please forgive me.

 

 

 

.

 

 

Thank you Mark...no problem, and apology accepted in full my friend. I in turn ask the same from you...no ill will in our disagreements was ever intended...I just tend to question everything, sometimes with far too much emotion... :lol: 

 

Have a good day!

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1 hour ago, umbertino said:

 

 

Good to see you around, Jim...Hope all is fine with you and family

 

 

 

Best

 

 

Hey Umbert!

 

Thanks my friend. Doing ok I think as we navigate the insanity around us. :lol:

How about you? I hope the same for you friend.

 

I always appreciate you taking the time to say hello! Always good to hear from you...

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1 minute ago, Jim1cor13 said:

 

 

Hey Umbert!

 

Thanks my friend. Doing ok I think as we navigate the insanity around us. :lol:

How about you? I hope the same for you friend.

 

I always appreciate you taking the time to say hello! Always good to hear from you...

 

 

Thanks friend...You're very kind...Yes, things are more or less ok around here.....But I'm gettin' older ( we all are....lol)....I'm hanging on......

 

 

Be well

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On 9/25/2021 at 9:26 PM, Markinsa said:

 

You keep referencing websites that have JW talking points.  What do you expect us to believe, if those are the ONLY websites you draw your support system" rel="">support from?  You have said you do not go to a Church, but you must have received your indoctrination somewhere to believe what the JW believe.

 

[Mat 7:20 NASB20] 20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

 

 

While you may feel that way, I was comparing the JW Talking points you used to Joe Biden.

 

 

 

You have to ask yourself, why would so many take the time to tell you that you are wrong?  I sincerely believe they see the road you are on and trying to warn you that you are on the wrong path.  I have at times been harsh with you but I did not see any other way to reach you, and I apologize for that.  We should both refer to 1 Peter 3:15 when addressing each other.

 

[1Pe 3:14-16 NASB20] 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE IN DREAD, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always [being] ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who disparage your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

 

 

I'm sorry I disagree.  Besides, I am constantly hounding you to get you to answer my questions, but you want me to answer an off topic one?  

 

 

 

 

It is not off topic.  It is very on topic.  You said Satan is only an angel and an angel is all he will ever be.  YET, 2 Corinthians 4:4 calls him GOD.  So..........if an angel like Satan could be called a god.  Why cant you believe the Angel, Jesus can be called a god?  Yet we both know they are not God almighty.

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