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God is opinion and doesn't care if it's name is Capitalized... or does She?


rvmydinar
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Just now, Markinsa said:

 

He didn't write that.  Check the underlined words and you will find links, one goes to a "former" Christian, now Agnostic.   He's supporting the reason he believes with work from someone who doesn't even believe in God.  No wonder he is so confused.

 

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I know he didn't write it but I understand why he did. I don't argue with people I give them what and why I believe. It is my testimony. Then I let Holy Spirit do what He do. I learned a long time ago just tell the truth and get out of the way. It's not my job to convict and convince. Just speak what the Lord has taught me. It takes all the pressure off me and keeps the conversation peaceful.

Blessed are the peacemakers...

:)

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3 hours ago, keylime said:

I know he didn't write it but I understand why he did. I don't argue with people I give them what and why I believe. It is my testimony. Then I let Holy Spirit do what He do. I learned a long time ago just tell the truth and get out of the way. It's not my job to convict and convince. Just speak what the Lord has taught me. It takes all the pressure off me and keeps the conversation peaceful.

Blessed are the peacemakers...

:)

Wow you are truly amazing my friend I absolutely love love love what you said here!! I truly feel blessed to have you cross my path in life so far and I hope it continues long after the dinar has RV’d and we are long gone from this forum!!! Thank you my Blessed friend!!!

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3 hours ago, Dinarrock said:

Wow you are truly amazing my friend I absolutely love love love what you said here!! I truly feel blessed to have you cross my path in life so far and I hope it continues long after the dinar has RV’d and we are long gone from this forum!!! Thank you my Blessed friend!!!

Amen! And thank you!! God crosses our paths for a purpose. I know it will continue Lord willing. God bless you.!!!

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3 hours ago, keylime said:

HA! That last line is a hoot. He beat Biden in 2020. Lies and cheats only last so long. The TRUTH always wins out. It will again in time.

To the MOON with this one too!!!

 

This stock is going to ride on the wings of all MAGA folks who were cheated this last election. Whose votes were stolen and dismissed. Now we can speak with our wallets and millions upon millions as they hear about this are going to vote with our shares.

GO TRUMP!

GO DINAR!

GO AMC!

GO DWAC!

GO PHUN!

GO APES!

Should Religion Be Involved in Politics? What Jesus Did, What Historians Report (jw.org)

Throughout the world, many people who claim to follow Jesus Christ are deeply involved in politics. Some try to promote their religious and moral values by supporting particular candidates or political parties. In turn, politicians often use moral or social issues to win the support of religious people. It is not uncommon for religious leaders to run for political office. And in some countries, a “Christian” denomination may even occupy a special status as a state, or national, religion.

What do you think? Should followers of Jesus Christ get involved in politics? You can find the answer by looking at Jesus’ example. He said: “I set the pattern for you, that just as I did to you, you should also do.” (John 13:15) When it comes to politics, what pattern did Jesus set?

Did Jesus get involved in politics?

No. Jesus did not get involved in the politics of the world.

Jesus did not seek political power. He refused to accept control of human governments when Satan the Devil offered him “all the kingdoms of the world.” (Matthew 4:8-10) * On another occasion, people who recognized Jesus’ leadership qualities tried to push him into politics. The Bible reports: “Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again to the mountain all alone.” (John 6:15) Jesus did not yield to the will of the people. Instead, he refused to get politically involved.

Jesus did not take sides on political issues. For example, in Jesus’ day the Jews resented paying taxes to the Roman government and viewed these as an unjust burden. When they tried to get Jesus to take sides on the issue, he did not get into a political debate about whether such taxes were just. He told them: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” (Mark 12:13-17) He remained neutral on the political issue but showed that the taxes demanded by the Roman civil authority, which represented Caesar, should be paid. At the same time, he showed that obedience to secular authority was limited. A person was not to give the State what was due to God, including devotion and worship.—Matthew 4:10; 22:37, 38.

Jesus promoted a heavenly government, God’s Kingdom. (Luke 4:43) He did not get involved in politics because he knew that God’s Kingdom, not human governments, would achieve what God wants for the earth. (Matthew 6:10) He understood that God’s Kingdom would not operate through human governments but would replace them.—Daniel 2:44.

Did first-century Christians get involved in politics?

No. Jesus’ followers obeyed his command to be “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) They followed his example and remained separate from the world’s politics. (John 17:16; 18:36) Rather than get involved in political matters, they did the work Jesus commanded—preaching and teaching about God’s Kingdom.—Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 10:42.

First-century Christians put obedience to God first in their lives, but they also knew that they had to respect secular authorities. (Acts 5:29; 1 Peter 2:13, 17) They obeyed the laws and paid taxes. (Romans 13:1, 7) While they did not get involved in politics, they did make use of legal protections and services that governments provided.—Acts 25:10, 11; Philippians 1:7.

Early Christians and politics—what secular history reports

  • “Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office.”—On the Road to Civilization—A World History, page 238.

  • “There is not a shred of evidence which would allow us to think that Jesus had military/political ambitions, and . . . the same applies to the disciples.”—Jesus and Judaism, page 231.

  • “To a Christian his religion was something apart from and superior to political society; his highest allegiance belonged not to Caesar but to Christ.”—Caesar and Christ, page 647.

  • “[The apostle] Paul was willing to use his Roman citizenship to demand the protections of the judicial process due him, but he engaged in no lobbying on the public policy issues of the day. . . . Though they believed they were obligated to honor the governing authorities, the early Christians did not believe in participating in political affairs.”—Beyond Good Intentions—A Biblical View of Politics, pages 122-123.

  • “There was a conviction widely held among Christians that none of their number should hold office under the state . . . As late as the beginning of the third century Hippolytus said that historic Christian custom required a civic magistrate to resign his office as a condition of joining the Church.”—A History of Christianity, Volume I, page 253.

Christian neutrality today

The Bible clearly shows that neither Jesus nor his early followers got involved in politics. For this reason, as Christians, Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world remain completely neutral. Like first-century Christians, they do the work that Jesus commanded—they preach “this good news of the Kingdom.”—Matthew 24:14

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What's your point? Obviously, Jesus was here for one reason. So politics didn't matter. However, hmmm, there was a certain man named King David whom God anointed and appointed to be King. Oh and let us not forget Moses, who was an adopted son of Ramses. And by the way, how do you think the Israelites even got to Egypt? Why that was Joseph, second in command because of God's hand. So yes, politics are not antithetical to God's plans for His people, Christians included. Again, you shoot at a target that doesn't exist nor make any sense. God appoints the leaders of countries, the Word says. And the heart of a King is in His hands. Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord and it's leaders and representatives who honor God it will go well with the people. If Christians didn't hold office this country would give itself over to every kind of wickedness. Even with Christians in office we are continuously fighting evil. 

So I would much rather live in a country that honors God with it's laws than a pagan country that has no love for righteousness and Goodwill. 

We are not living in the First century anymore by the way. The world is a different place where you actually can run for office and influence society with your Christianity through politics. For many Christians in office it is their ministry. And God blesses them and their constituents because of it.

In fact, nowhere in the Bible does God command not to run for office. As, in fact, just the opposite, in that God Himself appointed His leaders. But He does say, if it is in your power to do good and you do not, it is sin. So God wants us to get involved in  roles of leadership that we may have the power to do good.

So Give me a break with your crap. 

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On 10/21/2021 at 7:43 AM, Markinsa said:

 

He didn't write that.  Check the underlined words and you will find links, one goes to a "former" Christian, now Agnostic.   He's supporting the reason he believes with work from someone who doesn't even believe in God.  No wonder he is so confused.

 

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But when he wrote it at the time, he was a believer was he not?  So you think the words are invalid just because of that?  That is not how the world works.

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On 10/21/2021 at 7:38 AM, Markinsa said:

 

Hover your cell pointer over the below words and the same one in my post above (The link is embedded in those words):

 

What does it mean that God is spirit?

 

Jesus, said,

 

[Jhn 4:23-24 NASB20] 23 "But a time is coming, and even now has arrived, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks [to be] His worshipers. 24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

 

Yet Moses was somehow able to see the Invisible God. 

 

The simplicity of God's Word is like this link, it is right here in plain view, hidden underneath is the answer that you seek, yet you don't care to investigate or believe. :shrug: 

 

.

 

 

Moses didnt see God.  Once again for the 400th time, you are taking something as literal when it is not.   If Moses met face to face with God, why, later, was he not allowed to see God’s face? | GotQuestions.org

 

 

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On 10/22/2021 at 9:00 PM, keylime said:

What's your point? Obviously, Jesus was here for one reason. So politics didn't matter. However, hmmm, there was a certain man named King David whom God anointed and appointed to be King. Oh and let us not forget Moses, who was an adopted son of Ramses. And by the way, how do you think the Israelites even got to Egypt? Why that was Joseph, second in command because of God's hand. So yes, politics are not antithetical to God's plans for His people, Christians included. Again, you shoot at a target that doesn't exist nor make any sense. God appoints the leaders of countries, the Word says. And the heart of a King is in His hands. Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord and it's leaders and representatives who honor God it will go well with the people. If Christians didn't hold office this country would give itself over to every kind of wickedness. Even with Christians in office we are continuously fighting evil. 

So I would much rather live in a country that honors God with it's laws than a pagan country that has no love for righteousness and Goodwill. 

We are not living in the First century anymore by the way. The world is a different place where you actually can run for office and influence society with your Christianity through politics. For many Christians in office it is their ministry. And God blesses them and their constituents because of it.

In fact, nowhere in the Bible does God command not to run for office. As, in fact, just the opposite, in that God Himself appointed His leaders. But He does say, if it is in your power to do good and you do not, it is sin. So God wants us to get involved in  roles of leadership that we may have the power to do good.

So Give me a break with your crap. 

Welp....ALL of the religions your proscribe to are involved in politics.  All of them start wars etc.  Lets see which religions follow the law of God not to be involved?  Yup...pretty much only three.  Quakers, Amish, and Jehovahs Witnesses.  

 

When a person you voted for drops a bomb on someone, YOU are at fault in the eyes of God.  You picked that guy.  You supported him.  Therefore you are guilty if they do bad.  Because you supported him over God.  

 

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32 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Welp....ALL of the religions your proscribe to are involved in politics.  All of them start wars etc.  Lets see which religions follow the law of God not to be involved?  Yup...pretty much only three.  Quakers, Amish, and Jehovahs Witnesses.  

 

When a person you voted for drops a bomb on someone, YOU are at fault in the eyes of God.  You picked that guy.  You supported him.  Therefore you are guilty if they do bad.  Because you supported him over God.  

 

You're wrong. God has an Army. "The Lord's Army, not just the Angelic host that wars against Satan and his fallen angels, and the demonic host, but He had Israel fight for the Promised Land instructing them to kill all the inhabitants that He told them to. So when Trump dropped a bomb on a head terrorist, evil personified, guess what? In the eyes of God we were doing away with evil. So yes, I picked Trump, and so did God. 

You really need a spiritual awakening and the spiritual blindness you are under I pray gets removed, because you are on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to the things of God. 

Jehovas Witnesses is a false religion/cult. And any other religion that does not test the spirit of anti Christ and takes away the Deity of Jesus Christ is a false religion. That's how Paul said you may know what is false and what is true. Good for the Quakers and Amish. They too will answer for how they conduct themselves on earth. God does not want us crawling in a hole and practicing any religion, it goes completely against what Jesus said, which is GO and tell the world about me. God also wants us to fight against evil, and if that means going to war, then so be it.

Evil is real and if you don't come against the gates of hell, it will fly right open and overtake you. Only the weak and unbelieving cower against evil. The tragedies of the past in this world, genocide, millions of babies ripped from their mother's womb as a sacrifice to Molech. (Abortion is today's sacrifice to Molech), and other atrocities must be dealt with, and God is holding us accountable for how we do battle and fight Satan and his people on this earth. 

Lastly, I don't proscribe to any religion. I don't believe in religion. I believe in my relationship with Jesus Christ, and His Holy Spirit living inside of me so that I may commune with God the Father and learn to please Him. I am not religious, so your whole diatribe is wrong to start. I have a personal friendship with God because of what Jesus did. It is not religious. I don't know if you can even understand that because of your spiritual blindness.

 

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through Jesus. That's it. If Jesus is not at the center of your life you have missed the whole point of living on this earth and well may miss living with Him after you are no longer on this earth. Nothing else matters. Paul said, "I count everything in the world as dung, compared to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." JESUS IS EVERYTHING!!! I strive to honor Him everyday with my life. That's how I live. Every decision I make, I take to Him. I stay in constant communication with Holy Spirit. He guides me along my life's path, not religion, or a set of rules, or do's and don'ts, or anything else man has come up with to try to be righteous, good, or religious. We cannot be good enough on our own to go to heaven that's why we need a saviour. That's why Jesus came, to give us His holiness. His goodness. His righteousness and His eternal life and it doesn't come from anything else, and you can't earn it. Jesus did it all, because I could do nothing.

 

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14 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Moses didnt see God.  Once again for the 400th time, you are taking something as literal when it is not.   If Moses met face to face with God, why, later, was he not allowed to see God’s face? | GotQuestions.org

 

 

 

 [Exo 33:23 NASB20] 23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."

 

I suppose that is not a literal back, but a figurative back?  :shrug: 

 

.

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4 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

 [Exo 33:23 NASB20] 23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."

 

I suppose that is not a literal back, but a figurative back?  :shrug: 

 

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Unfortunately, people only want to interpret what fits their own doubts and misunderstandings even if the truth is in black and white. You gotta do a lot of heretical gymnastics to not see what the text actually says.

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On 10/28/2021 at 6:57 PM, keylime said:

Unfortunately, people only want to interpret what fits their own doubts and misunderstandings even if the truth is in black and white. You gotta do a lot of heretical gymnastics to not see what the text actually says.

Because Markinsa and you believe God ACTUALLY Has a spinal dorsal....lol.  Colossians 1:15 says he is INVISIBLE!  Yet you guys think he can be seen.  Talk about doing mental gymnastics....You guys are wrong wrong wrong.

 

1 john 4;12 No man has ever seen God but you guys think people have seen his back.  HAHA

 

It is going to be a shock to your system when Armaggeddon happens.  A true shock.  Everything you believe in will have been revealed to be a lie.

 

 

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7 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Because Markinsa and you believe God ACTUALLY Has a spinal dorsal....lol.  Colossians 1:15 says he is INVISIBLE!  Yet you guys think he can be seen.  Talk about doing mental gymnastics....You guys are wrong wrong wrong.

 

1 john 4;12 No man has ever seen God but you guys think people have seen his back.  HAHA

 

It is going to be a shock to your system when Armaggeddon happens.  A true shock.  Everything you believe in will have been revealed to be a lie.

 

 

 

It is such a sad thing that you do not have the Spirit of God living in you, otherwise you would understand what we have been trying to tell you.  You really should seek His Spirit so you would understand, and know the One True God, Jesus Christ.

 

1 Corinthians 2 (NASB)


2 And when I came to you, brothers and sisters, I did not come as someone superior in speaking ability or wisdom, as I proclaimed to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 3 I also was with you in weakness and fear, and in great trembling, 4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of mankind, but on the power of God.

 

6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written: 

 

“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the human heart,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”

 

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among people knows the thoughts of a person except the spirit of the person that is in him? So also the thoughts of God no one knows, except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God. 13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

 

14 But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But the one who is spiritual discerns all things, yet he himself is discerned by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

 

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Markinsa, Pre does not want the Lord, he wants to be right is all. What's the biblical history for those who think like him ? Did you ever hear about Lucifer the Angel of Light ? When he tried to do things his way , because he was more logical than God, God caught up with it and cast the whole lot outta heaven, Lucifer became Satan,  yada yada like that. There is a shift taking place from heaven, as heaven wrath crushes the 60 year long term plans of Satan and his followers. Their release of covid upon the children of God was the wrong move. I never want to be at the receiving end of God's wrath . Pray for him, but let Pre have as much of God's wrath as he wants if he doesn't want to listen to His voice .

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32 minutes ago, new york kevin said:

Markinsa, Pre does not want the Lord, he wants to be right is all. What's the biblical history for those who think like him ? Did you ever hear about Lucifer the Angel of Light ? When he tried to do things his way , because he was more logical than God, God caught up with it and cast the whole lot outta heaven, Lucifer became Satan,  yada yada like that. There is a shift taking place from heaven, as heaven wrath crushes the 60 year long term plans of Satan and his followers. Their release of covid upon the children of God was the wrong move. I never want to be at the receiving end of God's wrath . Pray for him, but let Pre have as much of God's wrath as he wants if he doesn't want to listen to His voice .

Oh look who is back.  You didnt answer my question from a month ago but decided to pop in again I see.

 

Nah, it is all of you that dont want God.  You are dishonest, or just simply not intelligent enough to understand the Bible.  

 

See you read this verse... 1 Corinthians 8:6 

 
New International Version
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

New Living Translation
But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.

English Standard Version
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Berean Study Bible
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Berean Literal Bible
yet to us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.
 
And even though it says there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER,,..your mental illness thinks it says ONE GOD IN THREE....AAANNNDDDD it doesnt say that.  It says ONE GOD the father.  Period.  And I am the one that doesnt follow the Bible?  LOL
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7 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Oh look who is back.  You didnt answer my question from a month ago but decided to pop in again I see.

 

Nah, it is all of you that dont want God.  You are dishonest, or just simply not intelligent enough to understand the Bible.  

 

See you read this verse... 1 Corinthians 8:6 

 
New International Version
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

New Living Translation
But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.

English Standard Version
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Berean Study Bible
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Berean Literal Bible
yet to us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.
 
And even though it says there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER,,..your mental illness thinks it says ONE GOD IN THREE....AAANNNDDDD it doesnt say that.  It says ONE GOD the father.  Period.  And I am the one that doesnt follow the Bible?  LOL

 

You have no room to talk about not answering questions.  And if you look a the bold text above you can see the Statements about God the Father and Jesus mirror each other.  Evidence you use to prove your point, but actually does the opposite of what you intended, because you lack discernment, the Holy Spirit, (Which is the Seal God Places on us for the Day of Redemption) you do not understand.  And yet you laugh at us?  How sad.

 

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7 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Oh look who is back.  You didnt answer my question from a month ago but decided to pop in again I see.

 

Nah, it is all of you that dont want God.  You are dishonest, or just simply not intelligent enough to understand the Bible.  

 

See you read this verse... 1 Corinthians 8:6 

 
New International Version
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

New Living Translation
But for us, There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live.

English Standard Version
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Berean Study Bible
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Berean Literal Bible
yet to us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.
 
And even though it says there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER,,..your mental illness thinks it says ONE GOD IN THREE....AAANNNDDDD it doesnt say that.  It says ONE GOD the father.  Period.  And I am the one that doesnt follow the Bible?  LOL

Again, you think you are making a point about Jesus Christ not being God or think you are. What you continue to mistakenly interpret is believing that because this verse says "there is but One God, the Father and One Lord, Jesus..." that proves they are not the One God in the Beginning that created heaven and earth in Genesis. That is not what that verse is saying. It is acknowledging since the fleshly coming of Jesus God has revealed Himself as not only The Father, but The Son and the Holy Spirit. That verse does not discount that they are 3 separate but unified persons. He is God. Father. Son. Holy Spirit. I know you have difficulty understanding this concept and are not alone but God says " My ways are higher than your ways. My thoughts higher than your thoughts."

I mean you are a finite creation trying to understand your infinite Creator who is not bound by our space, time, or even what we know as reality. And when He seems to communicate with us He must do it much like we would communicate with a 2 or 3 year old child. That's why Jesus simply explained Just come as a child and believe." Don't get so caught up in trying to understand the how that you miss the why. The Why He had to separate Himself into flesh and dwell among us. The Why He returned to sit at the right hand of the Father taking again His place as God with God; and send the Comforter, Holy Spirit, so He, God, can now live inside us " conforming us" to be "like Him." Which is what He "Predestined" us from the very Beginning.

For me I have no problem believing God the Father, God the Son, and God His Holy Spirit are Three separate yet One Being. In fact, I love and embrace that about God. It makes Him so much more than me and yet here I am, a finite nothing in His amazing creation who allows me to know him intimately. And not just me, but everyone who will. God says, "If you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." And that is what my purpose is everyday.

To seek Him. To get to know Him that I may be conformed to His image. To be just like my Daddy, my Lord and Savior with His Holy Spirit's help. Some days I am better seeking than others but I am always moving forward towards Him. And nothing gives me more joy and peace knowing Him and getting to know Him. I believe like a life long Best Friend you can never completely know Him until we are fully known after this life on earth. 

He is so incredible. To sit here and debate you about Jesus being God is so miniscule in what my life is about. I believe Jesus is God. And you do not. You're believing He is not doesn't take away anything from my Lord and Savior Jesus. He told the Pharasees, " Before Abraham, I Am."

They sought to stone Him right there for blasphemy, knowing He was equating Himself and saying He was God, the Great "I Am that I Am" He revealed Himself to Moses to be. They didn't misunderstand what He was saying. 

But they didn't like it nor believe it so eventually they killed Him because of what they believed, like you to be the ultimate blasphemy saying He was God. That too was His plan, though Satan didn't know it. Another part of His Amazing marvelousness.

Jesus is God and He died as man for man because man could't save nor die for himself as his own savior. So God had to leave His Godhead and take on flesh to do it. How incredible is He to do that for us?

One day both of us will soon find out and that will end the debate.

Ha!

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Oh look who is back.  You didnt answer my question from a month ago but decided to pop in again I see.

 

Nah, it is all of you that dont want God.  You are dishonest, or just simply not intelligent enough to understand the Bible.  

Those who follow the liar of liars, lie. Be silent liar.  Like you the liar has read the Words of God . I am sure it , can quote more of the bible than you, me, Billy Graham, & Dr Truscott combined. Me, I have to look up stuff. Since you have no fruit of understanding  the things of God; like the truth of the God Head (triune God) . This is illogical to you and therefore it cannot be true . Yet the bible describes the God head (Triune God , 3 in One) repeatedly. You re-write the word of God, separating out the deity of Jesus from the other two; like I believe the word of God entirely, except this part . Christians believe the Bible , from the first page, to the past page, and every page in between. For what you continue to attempt to do under this thread, and all who think like you Revelation 22:18 is your . 

Revelation 22:18   I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book .  So Pre eat and drink of your versions,  as for me and mine, we will eat from the Lord's bountiful table. Eventually enjoying all the things of Heaven as co-heir, rightful owners. The Ten Egyptian Plagues of the Bible means completely plagued. Just as the "Ten Commandments" become symbolic of the fullness of the moral law of God, the ten ancient plagues of Egypt represent the fullness of God's expression of justice and judgments, upon those who refuse to repent. 

The 10 plagues in the book of Exodus

01 Blood
The waters were turned to blood – the fish in the river died and the Egyptians couldn’t drink the foul water.

02 Frogs
Frogs swarmed forth, covering every inch of land and entering houses and bedrooms.

03 Lice
All over Egypt, bugs crawled forth from the dust to cover the land.

04 Wild animals
Hordes of wild animals destroyed everything in their path.

05 Pestilence
A fatal pestilence killed most of the domestic animals of the Egyptians.

06 Boils
The Pharaoh, his servants, the Egyptians and even their animals developed painful boils all over their bodies.

07 Fiery hail
Hail struck down all the crops in the fields and shattered every tree.

08 Locusts
The locusts covered the face of the land and swallowed up every crop and all the fruits of the trees.

09 Darkness
A thick darkness over the land of Egypt, so total that the Egyptians had to feel their way around.

10 Death of the first-born
All firstborn Egyptian sons (and firstborn cattle) died. Israelites marked lamb's blood above their door and were passed over.

   So where have I been ? I jumped on last night to crush the foundations of Satan's holiday,  and all stand on it. I also wondered if you are still repeating the same old dung that you always sling. Surprise, surprise , you are. I have answered every q's you ever asked of me. You still do not like my answers. Also, I don't fool with fools . Particularly when they got nothing new to say .

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11 hours ago, new york kevin said:

Those who follow the liar of liars, lie. Be silent liar.  Like you the liar has read the Words of God . I am sure it , can quote more of the bible than you, me, Billy Graham, & Dr Truscott combined. Me, I have to look up stuff. Since you have no fruit of understanding  the things of God; like the truth of the God Head (triune God) . This is illogical to you and therefore it cannot be true . Yet the bible describes the God head (Triune God , 3 in One) repeatedly. You re-write the word of God, separating out the deity of Jesus from the other two; like I believe the word of God entirely, except this part . Christians believe the Bible , from the first page, to the past page, and every page in between. For what you continue to attempt to do under this thread, and all who think like you Revelation 22:18 is your . 

Revelation 22:18   I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book .  So Pre eat and drink of your versions,  as for me and mine, we will eat from the Lord's bountiful table. Eventually enjoying all the things of Heaven as co-heir, rightful owners. The Ten Egyptian Plagues of the Bible means completely plagued. Just as the "Ten Commandments" become symbolic of the fullness of the moral law of God, the ten ancient plagues of Egypt represent the fullness of God's expression of justice and judgments, upon those who refuse to repent. 

The 10 plagues in the book of Exodus

01 Blood
The waters were turned to blood – the fish in the river died and the Egyptians couldn’t drink the foul water.

02 Frogs
Frogs swarmed forth, covering every inch of land and entering houses and bedrooms.

03 Lice
All over Egypt, bugs crawled forth from the dust to cover the land.

04 Wild animals
Hordes of wild animals destroyed everything in their path.

05 Pestilence
A fatal pestilence killed most of the domestic animals of the Egyptians.

06 Boils
The Pharaoh, his servants, the Egyptians and even their animals developed painful boils all over their bodies.

07 Fiery hail
Hail struck down all the crops in the fields and shattered every tree.

08 Locusts
The locusts covered the face of the land and swallowed up every crop and all the fruits of the trees.

09 Darkness
A thick darkness over the land of Egypt, so total that the Egyptians had to feel their way around.

10 Death of the first-born
All firstborn Egyptian sons (and firstborn cattle) died. Israelites marked lamb's blood above their door and were passed over.

   So where have I been ? I jumped on last night to crush the foundations of Satan's holiday,  and all stand on it. I also wondered if you are still repeating the same old dung that you always sling. Surprise, surprise , you are. I have answered every q's you ever asked of me. You still do not like my answers. Also, I don't fool with fools . Particularly when they got nothing new to say .

I knew you wouldnt believe what the Bible says.  It says ONE GOD THE FATHER.  Period.  

 

Wait...Now you believe that those that do not believe as you do will inherit egypts plagues?  It is not a mythical hellfire for you anymore?  IT is now the plagues?  HAHA.  You guys are so mixed up you dont know what you believe in.  ONE GOD THE FATHER.  Dontcha think it would have said ANOTHER GOD JESUS?  But no it doesnt.  And Markinsa is so braindead he thinks LORD means God.  If Jesus were God it would have said it at that verse.  It doesnt.  But hey Markinsa is a guy that believes everything LITERALLY in the Bible.

 

Notice Proverbs 7:6 which states God looks out his window on his lattice to see man down below.  I know I know...Markinsa believes LITERALLY that god has a window.  LOL.

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13 hours ago, keylime said:

Again, you think you are making a point about Jesus Christ not being God or think you are. What you continue to mistakenly interpret is believing that because this verse says "there is but One God, the Father and One Lord, Jesus..." that proves they are not the One God in the Beginning that created heaven and earth in Genesis. That is not what that verse is saying. It is acknowledging since the fleshly coming of Jesus God has revealed Himself as not only The Father, but The Son and the Holy Spirit. That verse does not discount that they are 3 separate but unified persons. He is God. Father. Son. Holy Spirit. I know you have difficulty understanding this concept and are not alone but God says " My ways are higher than your ways. My thoughts higher than your thoughts."

I mean you are a finite creation trying to understand your infinite Creator who is not bound by our space, time, or even what we know as reality. And when He seems to communicate with us He must do it much like we would communicate with a 2 or 3 year old child. That's why Jesus simply explained Just come as a child and believe." Don't get so caught up in trying to understand the how that you miss the why. The Why He had to separate Himself into flesh and dwell among us. The Why He returned to sit at the right hand of the Father taking again His place as God with God; and send the Comforter, Holy Spirit, so He, God, can now live inside us " conforming us" to be "like Him." Which is what He "Predestined" us from the very Beginning.

For me I have no problem believing God the Father, God the Son, and God His Holy Spirit are Three separate yet One Being. In fact, I love and embrace that about God. It makes Him so much more than me and yet here I am, a finite nothing in His amazing creation who allows me to know him intimately. And not just me, but everyone who will. God says, "If you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." And that is what my purpose is everyday.

To seek Him. To get to know Him that I may be conformed to His image. To be just like my Daddy, my Lord and Savior with His Holy Spirit's help. Some days I am better seeking than others but I am always moving forward towards Him. And nothing gives me more joy and peace knowing Him and getting to know Him. I believe like a life long Best Friend you can never completely know Him until we are fully known after this life on earth. 

He is so incredible. To sit here and debate you about Jesus being God is so miniscule in what my life is about. I believe Jesus is God. And you do not. You're believing He is not doesn't take away anything from my Lord and Savior Jesus. He told the Pharasees, " Before Abraham, I Am."

They sought to stone Him right there for blasphemy, knowing He was equating Himself and saying He was God, the Great "I Am that I Am" He revealed Himself to Moses to be. They didn't misunderstand what He was saying. 

But they didn't like it nor believe it so eventually they killed Him because of what they believed, like you to be the ultimate blasphemy saying He was God. That too was His plan, though Satan didn't know it. Another part of His Amazing marvelousness.

Jesus is God and He died as man for man because man could't save nor die for himself as his own savior. So God had to leave His Godhead and take on flesh to do it. How incredible is He to do that for us?

One day both of us will soon find out and that will end the debate.

Ha!

 

 

 

Then um....STOP debating me.  If it is SOOOOO miniscule on your life, move on.  No one has a gun to your head to be here right?

 

Sorry Jesus is NOT God.  Numbers 23:19 God says I AM NOT A MAN.  Was Jesus a man?  Whammo, then he cannot be God.  AMong hundreds of other verses that say he isnt.  

 

John 8:58 is not proof at ALL that he is saying he is God.  None at all.  Sorry you are so confused. 

 

It simply says Before Abraham was I AM.  MEANING he existed before Abraham.  Meaning time alive.  Not an afirmation that he was God.  

 

Romans 10:2 fits all of you.  Without a doubt.  None of you have the real truth.  You will find out one day everything you have belived is a lie.  So sad.  Jesus is not God.  Notice Habbakuk 1:2  It says God cannot die.  Did JEsus die?  WHAMMO.  Then he cannot be God.

 

Only dumb people believe in a trinity.  Which ALSO is not mentioned in the Bible.  Not one time.  

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53 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Then um....STOP debating me.  If it is SOOOOO miniscule on your life, move on.  No one has a gun to your head to be here right?

 

Sorry Jesus is NOT God.  Numbers 23:19 God says I AM NOT A MAN.  Was Jesus a man?  Whammo, then he cannot be God.  AMong hundreds of other verses that say he isnt.  

 

John 8:58 is not proof at ALL that he is saying he is God.  None at all.  Sorry you are so confused. 

 

It simply says Before Abraham was I AM.  MEANING he existed before Abraham.  Meaning time alive.  Not an afirmation that he was God.  

 

Romans 10:2 fits all of you.  Without a doubt.  None of you have the real truth.  You will find out one day everything you have belived is a lie.  So sad.  Jesus is not God.  Notice Habbakuk 1:2  It says God cannot die.  Did JEsus die?  WHAMMO.  Then he cannot be God.

 

Only dumb people believe in a trinity.  Which ALSO is not mentioned in the Bible.  Not one time.  

LOL! You're the very reason for the verse "Do not throw your pearls to swine." Wasted effort. Lost in your darkness. Root around in your ignorance that you may perish in your blindness. Was Jesus born before Numbers was written? Of course at the time God had not taken on flesh. Was Jesus born before Habbakuk was written? Of course at the time God could not die. Yeah! WHAMMO!

You will go before Jesus during the Great White Throne Judgement and He will say, "Get away from Me. I never knew you." Nor do you know Him.

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1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Then um....STOP debating me.  If it is SOOOOO miniscule on your life, move on.  No one has a gun to your head to be here right?

 

Sorry Jesus is NOT God.  Numbers 23:19 God says I AM NOT A MAN.  Was Jesus a man?  Whammo, then he cannot be God.  AMong hundreds of other verses that say he isnt.  

 

John 8:58 is not proof at ALL that he is saying he is God.  None at all.  Sorry you are so confused. 

 

It simply says Before Abraham was I AM.  MEANING he existed before Abraham.  Meaning time alive.  Not an afirmation that he was God.  

 

Romans 10:2 fits all of you.  Without a doubt.  None of you have the real truth.  You will find out one day everything you have belived is a lie.  So sad.  Jesus is not God.  Notice Habbakuk 1:2  It says God cannot die.  Did JEsus die?  WHAMMO.  Then he cannot be God.

 

Only dumb people believe in a trinity.  Which ALSO is not mentioned in the Bible.  Not one time.  

Is the word Rapture in the Bible? No but we understand the concept of the "snatching away" or Harpazo.

Is the word Bible in the Bible? No but we understand it to be  what is called the Holy Scriptures.

Is the word Demon in the Bible? No but the spirits of the dead Nephlim we know are the demons that possess people and Jesus cast out.

Is the word Trinity in the Bible? Of course not, it wasn't used back then. But the concept of three in one is revealed from Genesis to Revelation. 

You're dismissed. Class is over.

Come back when you truly have something to add to the conversation instead of your house of cards that gets blown away by true revelation knowledge of the Word. Which will be never since you will "never come to know the truth" because you are already rejecting it.

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2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

And Markinsa is so braindead he thinks LORD means God.

 

Please quote where I said that.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

If Jesus were God it would have said it at that verse.  It doesnt.

 

You really do not understand the "Mystery of God".  

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

But hey Markinsa is a guy that believes everything LITERALLY in the Bible.

 

Again, please quote where I said that everything in the Bible is Literal.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Notice Proverbs 7:6 which states God looks out his window on his lattice to see man down below.  I know I know...Markinsa believes LITERALLY that god has a window.  LOL.

 

For the last time, please quote where I said anything close to what you mentioned above.  

 

You are a LIAR, like your Father.

 

Here's something for you to reflect on, this is what you rely on, this Religion that you think is so pure, is full of lies and deceit:

 

A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BIBLE:THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION

 

by M. Kurt Goedelman

 

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT) is the name of the Bible used worldwide by members of the Jehovah's Witness sect. The Watchtower Society claims this work to have been made directly into English from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages.

This translation, they claim, was made by "a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah," but the Society refuses to divulge the names and credentials of the men who comprised this committee.

The work was originally released in six volumes starting in 1950. In 1961 the entire Bible had been completely "translated" and thus released in a one volume publication. Since that time many additional editions of this Bible have rolled off the Watchtower's presses, complete with changes and alterations.

Who Were the translators?


The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has failed both the public and its own followers at this most crucial point, as they refuse to give the names and credentials of the translators of The New World Translation. The Watchtower's Bible subject index handbook, Reasoning from the Scripture, states: "When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request" (pg. 277).

The reason cited is because the "translators were not seeking prominence for themselves." However, the fact is that the men who comprised this committee had no adequate schooling or background to function as skilled critical Bible translators.

The translation committee was headed by (then vice -president of the Jehovah's Witnesses), Frederick W.Franz. Other members included Nathan H. Knorr (then president of the Jehovah's Witnesses), Albert D. Schroeder, Ceorge D. Gangas and Milton Henschel.

The information as to the identity of the translation committee was made known by former Jehovah's Witness William Cetnar. (See further, We Left lehovah's Witnesses, A Non-Profit Organization; Edmond C. Gruss.) Cetnar was able to supply this information as he worked at the International Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses during the time the translation was being prepared.

In addition, former member of the Watchtower's Governing Body, Raymond V. Franz, in his book, Crisis of Conscience, lists the translators' names as Franz, Knorr, Schroeder and Cangas. His list omits Henschel. Franz further acknowledges his uncle Frederick Franz as the "principal translator of the Society's New World Translation" (Crisis, pg. 50).

Yet, Frederick Franz's translation ability is open to serious question.

During a court trial held in Scotland in 1954 (during the same period that the New World Translation was being made) Franz was asked if he had made himself familiar with Hebrew. His reply was "Yes." He also acknowledged under oath that he could read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German and French. The following day, during the same court trial, his linguistic abilities were put to the test.

He was asked to translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew. He failed the test as he was unable to do so. In fact he did not even try, but rather stated "No, I wouldn't attempt to do that." (See, Court of Session, Scotland - Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde - November 1954.)

Is It Really a Scholarly Translation?

WHAT ABOUT JOHN 1:1 ?
John 1:1 in the vast majority of Bibles reveals the deity of Christ: The Word was God (NKJV). The Word was God (NIV). The Word was God (KJV). In contrast, the NWT renders John 1:1 in a most unusual way:
'In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.'

Much more information on the correct translation of John 1:1 can be found here.

To this question the Watchtower has led its followers to believe that although the backgrounds of its translators are not made known, the translation will stand on its own. It does not.

The translation committee is guilty of inventing non-existent Greek grammar (and then following these made-up rules only when necessary to support the theology of the Watchtower), and when inserting words into Scripture that change the meaning of God's Word.

The 1985 edition of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures states for its readers the guidelines and goals endorsed by the translation committee. The Society claims that, "We offer no paraphrase of Scripture. Our endeavor throughout has been to as literal a translation as possible where the modern English idiom allows for it or where the thought content is not hidden due to awkwardness in the literal rendition" and that "To each major word we have assigned one meaning and have held to that meaning as far as context permitted" (pp. 9-10, 1985 ed.; pg. 10, 1969 ed.)

However, based on these claims for its translation of the Bible, the committee has failed miserably.

Considering the Watchtower's first point, "We offer no paraphrase of Scripture," one need only examine the NWT renderings of John 15:4,5; John 17:26; Galatians 1:16; Romans 8:10; Colossians 1:27 and 2 Corinthians 13:5 to find that the translation committee has paraphrased Scripture to deny the indwelling of Christ in the believer.

Each of the aforementioned verses speaks of Christ living within the Christian ("in him" or "in you"), yet these verses found in the NWT have been paraphrased to read "in union with you (him) " (emphasis added).

Regarding the second point, "Our endeavor throughout has been to give as literal a translation as possible...," this criterion likewise misses the mark of honest scholarship.

An examination of Colossians 1:16, 17 and Philippians 2:9 demonstrates through the addition of words that the committee has not presented "as literal a translation as possible. "

(There is so much here, to highlight, that I had to stop and go to bed, but you get the idea.  You've been played into a Cult, Sect, Demonic Religion that doesn't teach Christ.  You really need to reevaluate your whole faith, because it it seriously lacking in Jesus Christ.)


In both verses cited one finds the word "other" added. (Christ created all "other" things, meaning he is also a creature, a created being.) Thus we find divine attributes of the Lord Jesus Christ removed, namely that He is the creator of all things and that He possesses the name that is above every name.

Finally, the third point, "To each major word we have assigned one meaning and have held to that meaning as far as context permitted," fares no better than the previous statements. The translation committee has again let their theological bias bend their rules for translating.

In Matthew 25:46, 2 Peter 2:9 and Acts 4:21 we find the Greek word kolaoontai that refers to punishment.

However, since the Watchtower denies the teaching of eternal punishment we find the committee rendering two of the passages, those in Matthew and 2 Peter (which refer to eternal punishment) as "cutting off" and the Scripture found in Acts (which refers to physical punishment) as "punish."

Since the Kingdom Interlinear Translation provides a between the lines literal Greek-English Translation and the text of the New World Translation (located in the right hand column), we recommend its use for the documentation of the above Scriptural citations.

Why is the Name "]ehovah " Used in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

The Watchtower Society leads its followers to believe that its translation is also superior on the basis that it has restored the divine name ]ehovah (Yahweh) to the pages of the Bible. The Watchtower's publication, "The Divine Name That Will Endure Forever" announces that it was a "apostate" Christian church that removed the divine name and has substituted "Lord" in its place.

However, they have based, in part, this erroneous idea on some guesswork published by Professor George Howard in an article in the March 1978 issue of Biblical Archaeological Review. Howard's evidence was slim and in a more detailed article published the previous year in The Journal of Biblical Literature he sets forth what he proposes as "a theory." The question that the Watchtower leaders never considered is whether Howard's guesses are supported by the evidence.

This question was addressed by Dr. Albert Pietersma of the University of Toronto. Writing in De Sepuaginta, a collection of scholarly articles, by experts in Septuagint studies, Piertersma carefully reviews Howard's use of the three Old Testament manuscript fragments. He finds that a careful examination does not support Howard's theory.

Further, the Watchtower's Reasoning book announces, "The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. This is merely a rephrasing of the "Restoring the Divine Name" concept found in the Forward of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation (pp. 10ff).

The translation committee has set forth the proposition that a modern translator may render the Greek words Kyrios and Theos as the divine name Jehovah (Yahweh) when the inspired Christian writers have quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures where the divine name appears.

Regrettably, once again the translation committee has followed this rule only when it does not contradict their theology. Philippians 2:10,11 serves as a perfect example. Scripture is clear that one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord." However the Philippians passage is quoted from Isaiah 45:23 and here we are told that to Jehovah every knee will bow.

Therefore based on the Watchtower's own translation rule, the Lord spoken of in Philippians is none other than Jehovah. Further it is of interest to note that the 1950 edition of the New World Translation of the Christian Scriptures, which contained marginal cross references, cited Isaiah 45:23 as a cross reference to the Philippians 2:11 passage.

Numerous scholars with true credentials in the Biblical languages have condemned the Watchtower's New World Translation as a fatal distortion of God's written Word. For example, see The Bible Collector (July-December, 1971) issue which devotes three articles evaluating the Watchtower scripture.

Thus it has been demonstrated above that the Watchtower Society has, by its own standards, proven its Bible translation to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Those desiring a modern translation would do well to invest in either the New American Standard Version or the New international Version of Scripture to escape the theological prejudice and Biblical untruths found in the New World Translation.

If a Jehovah's Witness Would Say... "Our Bible is Reliable." The Christian should respond that no reputable Greek or Hebrew scholar has given an endorsement of the New World Translation. The Society has at times used both out-of-context quotations from scholars and antiqued statements to make it appear that there are those who give credence to this translation, but this version is only used by Jehovah's Witnesses to promulgate their doctrines.

You may also wish to note that it would be most beneficial if we could check out the scholarly abilities of the men who comprised the translation committee, but the Watchtower organization refuses to release their names or credentials. While some have stated that this is due to the humility of these men, others have made the claim that it is because these men have no qualifications to serve as accurate Bible translators.

Therefore the evidence found both within the Society's own Kingdom Interlinear Translation and other non-Watchtower sources, the latter claim appears to be most true. Remember it is not a sin to "make sure of all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21) nor to try "them which say they are apostles" (Revelation 2:2).

An additional suggestion: If a Jehovah's Witness should ask who comprised the translation committee of the Bible you use, tell him you will be happy to find out. Inform the Watchtower follower that this information is available and accessible to those who desire to find it out. It is not hidden from nor denied to those who seek it. Some modern day versions of the Bible even include this information in the introduction section of the publication. The names and scholarly credentials for the translators of The New King James Version, The New International Version, The Revised Standard Version and The King James Version are all easily accessible.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have and do use this type of smoke screen to catch Christians off guard. When Christians respond by providing the names and credentials of the men who comprised the various translations of Scripture, it again demonstrates the deceptiveness of the Watchtower Society.

One note of exception: The Watchtower's Reasoning book has cited the New American Standard Version as an example of a translation committee who refuses to divulge the identity of its members. While the Lockman Foundation, the publisher of the New American Standard Version, has, to date, not made known the names of its translation committee, it has provided its readers with numerous facts concerning the making of this translation as found in the preface.

Further, the Lockman Foundation has, over the past few years, increasingly made known more facts concerning the translation of the New American Standard Version. The Watchtower, unlike the Lockman Foundation, has consistently stated when challenged, that its translation will stand on its own. If the need arises the Christian may simply state that he (or she) will be happy to make use of a translation whose translation committee names are available -- if the ]ehovah's Witness will find out the names of the NWT's translation committee.

For additional information dealing with the Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation see: The lehovah's Witnesses' New Testament by Dr. Robert Countess (Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company) and Apostles of Denial by Edmond C. Gruss (Baker Book House).

Kurt Goedelman is director of Personal Freedom Outreach, A Christian research ministry in St. Louis, Missouri.

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Markinsa said:

 

Please quote where I said that.

 

 

You really do not understand the "Mystery of God".  

 

 

Again, please quote where I said that everything in the Bible is Literal.

 

 

For the last time, please quote where I said anything close to what you mentioned above.  

 

You are a LIAR, like your Father.

 

Here's something for you to reflect on, this is what you rely on, this Religion that you think is so pure, is full of lies and deceit:

 

A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BIBLE:THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION

 

by M. Kurt Goedelman

 

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT) is the name of the Bible used worldwide by members of the Jehovah's Witness sect. The Watchtower Society claims this work to have been made directly into English from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages.

This translation, they claim, was made by "a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah," but the Society refuses to divulge the names and credentials of the men who comprised this committee.

The work was originally released in six volumes starting in 1950. In 1961 the entire Bible had been completely "translated" and thus released in a one volume publication. Since that time many additional editions of this Bible have rolled off the Watchtower's presses, complete with changes and alterations.

Who Were the translators?


The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has failed both the public and its own followers at this most crucial point, as they refuse to give the names and credentials of the translators of The New World Translation. The Watchtower's Bible subject index handbook, Reasoning from the Scripture, states: "When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request" (pg. 277).

The reason cited is because the "translators were not seeking prominence for themselves." However, the fact is that the men who comprised this committee had no adequate schooling or background to function as skilled critical Bible translators.

The translation committee was headed by (then vice -president of the Jehovah's Witnesses), Frederick W.Franz. Other members included Nathan H. Knorr (then president of the Jehovah's Witnesses), Albert D. Schroeder, Ceorge D. Gangas and Milton Henschel.

The information as to the identity of the translation committee was made known by former Jehovah's Witness William Cetnar. (See further, We Left lehovah's Witnesses, A Non-Profit Organization; Edmond C. Gruss.) Cetnar was able to supply this information as he worked at the International Headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses during the time the translation was being prepared.

In addition, former member of the Watchtower's Governing Body, Raymond V. Franz, in his book, Crisis of Conscience, lists the translators' names as Franz, Knorr, Schroeder and Cangas. His list omits Henschel. Franz further acknowledges his uncle Frederick Franz as the "principal translator of the Society's New World Translation" (Crisis, pg. 50).

Yet, Frederick Franz's translation ability is open to serious question.

During a court trial held in Scotland in 1954 (during the same period that the New World Translation was being made) Franz was asked if he had made himself familiar with Hebrew. His reply was "Yes." He also acknowledged under oath that he could read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German and French. The following day, during the same court trial, his linguistic abilities were put to the test.

He was asked to translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew. He failed the test as he was unable to do so. In fact he did not even try, but rather stated "No, I wouldn't attempt to do that." (See, Court of Session, Scotland - Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde - November 1954.)

Is It Really a Scholarly Translation?

WHAT ABOUT JOHN 1:1 ?
John 1:1 in the vast majority of Bibles reveals the deity of Christ: The Word was God (NKJV). The Word was God (NIV). The Word was God (KJV). In contrast, the NWT renders John 1:1 in a most unusual way:
'In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.'

Much more information on the correct translation of John 1:1 can be found here.

To this question the Watchtower has led its followers to believe that although the backgrounds of its translators are not made known, the translation will stand on its own. It does not.

The translation committee is guilty of inventing non-existent Greek grammar (and then following these made-up rules only when necessary to support system" rel="">support the theology of the Watchtower), and when inserting words into Scripture that change the meaning of God's Word.

The 1985 edition of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures states for its readers the guidelines and goals endorsed by the translation committee. The Society claims that, "We offer no paraphrase of Scripture. Our endeavor throughout has been to as literal a translation as possible where the modern English idiom allows for it or where the thought content is not hidden due to awkwardness in the literal rendition" and that "To each major word we have assigned one meaning and have held to that meaning as far as context permitted" (pp. 9-10, 1985 ed.; pg. 10, 1969 ed.)

However, based on these claims for its translation of the Bible, the committee has failed miserably.

Considering the Watchtower's first point, "We offer no paraphrase of Scripture," one need only examine the NWT renderings of John 15:4,5; John 17:26; Galatians 1:16; Romans 8:10; Colossians 1:27 and 2 Corinthians 13:5 to find that the translation committee has paraphrased Scripture to deny the indwelling of Christ in the believer.

Each of the aforementioned verses speaks of Christ living within the Christian ("in him" or "in you"), yet these verses found in the NWT have been paraphrased to read "in union with you (him) " (emphasis added).

Regarding the second point, "Our endeavor throughout has been to give as literal a translation as possible...," this criterion likewise misses the mark of honest scholarship.

An examination of Colossians 1:16, 17 and Philippians 2:9 demonstrates through the addition of words that the committee has not presented "as literal a translation as possible. "

(There is so much here, to highlight, that I had to stop and go to bed, but you get the idea.  You've been played into a Cult, Sect, Demonic Religion that doesn't teach Christ.  You really need to reevaluate your whole faith, because it it seriously lacking in Jesus Christ.)


In both verses cited one finds the word "other" added. (Christ created all "other" things, meaning he is also a creature, a created being.) Thus we find divine attributes of the Lord Jesus Christ removed, namely that He is the creator of all things and that He possesses the name that is above every name.

Finally, the third point, "To each major word we have assigned one meaning and have held to that meaning as far as context permitted," fares no better than the previous statements. The translation committee has again let their theological bias bend their rules for translating.

In Matthew 25:46, 2 Peter 2:9 and Acts 4:21 we find the Greek word kolaoontai that refers to punishment.

However, since the Watchtower denies the teaching of eternal punishment we find the committee rendering two of the passages, those in Matthew and 2 Peter (which refer to eternal punishment) as "cutting off" and the Scripture found in Acts (which refers to physical punishment) as "punish."

Since the Kingdom Interlinear Translation provides a between the lines literal Greek-English Translation and the text of the New World Translation (located in the right hand column), we recommend its use for the documentation of the above Scriptural citations.

Why is the Name "]ehovah " Used in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

The Watchtower Society leads its followers to believe that its translation is also superior on the basis that it has restored the divine name ]ehovah (Yahweh) to the pages of the Bible. The Watchtower's publication, "The Divine Name That Will Endure Forever" announces that it was a "apostate" Christian church that removed the divine name and has substituted "Lord" in its place.

However, they have based, in part, this erroneous idea on some guesswork published by Professor George Howard in an article in the March 1978 issue of Biblical Archaeological Review. Howard's evidence was slim and in a more detailed article published the previous year in The Journal of Biblical Literature he sets forth what he proposes as "a theory." The question that the Watchtower leaders never considered is whether Howard's guesses are supported by the evidence.

This question was addressed by Dr. Albert Pietersma of the University of Toronto. Writing in De Sepuaginta, a collection of scholarly articles, by experts in Septuagint studies, Piertersma carefully reviews Howard's use of the three Old Testament manuscript fragments. He finds that a careful examination does not support system" rel="">support Howard's theory.

Further, the Watchtower's Reasoning book announces, "The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. This is merely a rephrasing of the "Restoring the Divine Name" concept found in the Forward of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation (pp. 10ff).

The translation committee has set forth the proposition that a modern translator may render the Greek words Kyrios and Theos as the divine name Jehovah (Yahweh) when the inspired Christian writers have quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures where the divine name appears.

Regrettably, once again the translation committee has followed this rule only when it does not contradict their theology. Philippians 2:10,11 serves as a perfect example. Scripture is clear that one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that "Jesus Christ is Lord." However the Philippians passage is quoted from Isaiah 45:23 and here we are told that to Jehovah every knee will bow.

Therefore based on the Watchtower's own translation rule, the Lord spoken of in Philippians is none other than Jehovah. Further it is of interest to note that the 1950 edition of the New World Translation of the Christian Scriptures, which contained marginal cross references, cited Isaiah 45:23 as a cross reference to the Philippians 2:11 passage.

Numerous scholars with true credentials in the Biblical languages have condemned the Watchtower's New World Translation as a fatal distortion of God's written Word. For example, see The Bible Collector (July-December, 1971) issue which devotes three articles evaluating the Watchtower scripture.

Thus it has been demonstrated above that the Watchtower Society has, by its own standards, proven its Bible translation to be unreliable and untrustworthy. Those desiring a modern translation would do well to invest in either the New American Standard Version or the New international Version of Scripture to escape the theological prejudice and Biblical untruths found in the New World Translation.

If a Jehovah's Witness Would Say... "Our Bible is Reliable." The Christian should respond that no reputable Greek or Hebrew scholar has given an endorsement of the New World Translation. The Society has at times used both out-of-context quotations from scholars and antiqued statements to make it appear that there are those who give credence to this translation, but this version is only used by Jehovah's Witnesses to promulgate their doctrines.

You may also wish to note that it would be most beneficial if we could check out the scholarly abilities of the men who comprised the translation committee, but the Watchtower organization refuses to release their names or credentials. While some have stated that this is due to the humility of these men, others have made the claim that it is because these men have no qualifications to serve as accurate Bible translators.

Therefore the evidence found both within the Society's own Kingdom Interlinear Translation and other non-Watchtower sources, the latter claim appears to be most true. Remember it is not a sin to "make sure of all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21) nor to try "them which say they are apostles" (Revelation 2:2).

An additional suggestion: If a Jehovah's Witness should ask who comprised the translation committee of the Bible you use, tell him you will be happy to find out. Inform the Watchtower follower that this information is available and accessible to those who desire to find it out. It is not hidden from nor denied to those who seek it. Some modern day versions of the Bible even include this information in the introduction section of the publication. The names and scholarly credentials for the translators of The New King James Version, The New International Version, The Revised Standard Version and The King James Version are all easily accessible.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have and do use this type of smoke screen to catch Christians off guard. When Christians respond by providing the names and credentials of the men who comprised the various translations of Scripture, it again demonstrates the deceptiveness of the Watchtower Society.

One note of exception: The Watchtower's Reasoning book has cited the New American Standard Version as an example of a translation committee who refuses to divulge the identity of its members. While the Lockman Foundation, the publisher of the New American Standard Version, has, to date, not made known the names of its translation committee, it has provided its readers with numerous facts concerning the making of this translation as found in the preface.

Further, the Lockman Foundation has, over the past few years, increasingly made known more facts concerning the translation of the New American Standard Version. The Watchtower, unlike the Lockman Foundation, has consistently stated when challenged, that its translation will stand on its own. If the need arises the Christian may simply state that he (or she) will be happy to make use of a translation whose translation committee names are available -- if the ]ehovah's Witness will find out the names of the NWT's translation committee.

For additional information dealing with the Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation see: The lehovah's Witnesses' New Testament by Dr. Robert Countess (Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company) and Apostles of Denial by Edmond C. Gruss (Baker Book House).

Kurt Goedelman is director of Personal Freedom Outreach, A Christian research ministry in St. Louis, Missouri.

 

 

 

Again  I havent quoted the NWT this entire topic.  Ole Markinsa is OBSESSED with it.  He keeps talking about it.  LOL.  

 

Yeah you believe everything is literal.  Floating Gold in heaven anyone?

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