God is opinion and doesn't care if it's name is Capitalized... or does She?

[PrehistoricMan]

13 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Then YOU stop copying and pasting hell articles.  Rules for me and not for thee eh?  

And they are not jw talking points.  You dont like them because it destroys your narrative.

[Markinsa]

3 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Then YOU stop copying and pasting hell articles.  Rules for me and not for thee eh?  

 

Nope, you didn't comment on the "An Eternal Hell is for Real - The Heresy of Annihilationism?"  Don't even know if you read it, or understood it.   

 

As I mention before, if you are posting from another source that is not your own, you need to provide a link. That IS a Forum Rule.

 

On 12/10/2009 at 7:07 AM, Adam Montana said:

We do not spam our links on other boards – do not mention other dinar sites here. Only post links to LEGITIMATE NEWS SOURCES.

 

3 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

And they are not jw talking points.  You dont like them because it destroys your narrative.

 

http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com/   Is a Front for jw.org.  It seems that EVERY link on that website I click on goes to jw.org.  It also appears to be the main source for all of your arguments.  So please be honest with yourself for once.  

 

And you still haven't given me a link to your Church Website?  I guess you are ashamed or are a closet jw and don't know it.

 

.

 

[Markinsa]

 

 

Hebrews 1 (NASB)

1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

 

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

 

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?

 

And again,

 

“I will be a Father to Him
And He will be a Son to Me”?

 

6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,

 

“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

 

7 And regarding the angels He says,

 

“He makes His angels winds,
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

 

8 But regarding the Son He says,

 

“Your throne, God, is forever and ever,
And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of joy above Your companions.”

 

10 And,

 

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the works of Your hands;

11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they all will wear out like a garment,
12 And like a robe You will roll them up;
Like a garment they will also be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not come to an end.”

 

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said,

 

“Sit at My right hand,
Until I make Your enemies
A footstool for Your feet”?

 

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to provide service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

 

---------------

 

And His response will be the nonsensical link below, because he does not have the intellect of his own to dispute the above.:

 

http://searchforbibletruths.blogspot.com/2012/01/hebrews-18-thy-throne-o-god.html

[PrehistoricMan]

When people post in the music section....are they posting a link to youtube OR uploading a video here?  Any copy and paste, just consider them as my own thoughts.  Or do you REALLY need a link to read it?  You are intimidated by the information at the sites I post and you hope that by posting a link to them it will lessen my credibility.  Why are you so threatened by them?

 

I dont belong to a church.  I am independant.  But truth is truth.  Trinity, hellfire are not in the Bible.  Why are you changing the subject to Jesus being an angel?  The subject is literally trinity and hellfire.  I see, you are losing badly and want to change the subject because you cannot defend your views.  I got it.  If I got slapped around like I did you two I would be running for the hills too.  Oh which has MORE courage here on this forum?  A mod that has the power to do whatever they want with someone like nyk and nstollman backing them up?  Or me ALONE debating all of you on my own?  I think we all know the answer to that one.  

 

Todays pic.  If the Son were ALMIGHTY ALL KNOWING GOD....WHY does he have to learn anything?  I mean, doesnt God know EVERYTHING?  Another proof that Jesus isnt God.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by PrehistoricMan

[Markinsa]

53 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

When people post in the music section....are they posting a link to youtube OR uploading a video here?

 

By posting the Video, they do both.  You cannot post a YouTube video without a link going back to YouTube.

 

55 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Any copy and paste, just consider them as my own thoughts.

 

Spoken like a true plagiarist with no qualms about stealing someone else's work and passing it off as their own.

 

56 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Or do you REALLY need a link to read it? 

 

No, YOU REALLY need to post the link for material that you are quoting word for word  (copying and pasting) from another Website.  It is a Forum Rule, not mine but Adam's.  I'm not Moding in this Topic, but I, or someone else, sure can report it and let another Mod handle it.

 

59 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You are intimidated by the information at the sites I post and you hope that by posting a link to them it will lessen my credibility.

 

You lost your credibility when you claim Hell doesn't exist and Jesus isn't God and used JW talking points. 

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Why are you so threatened by them?

 

I'm not. Don't you think everyone is entitled to know the source of your arguments?  Why do you have to be so deceptive?  That is a tactic of Satan.  He's always been a liar.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I dont belong to a church.  I am independant.

 

You seem to have been around a long time.  What is the source of your biblical education, besides the JW?

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

But truth is truth.

 

There is only one truth.  Soon we will all know what that is.  And I won't be laughing, as you suggested you would do concerning me and NYK, about those thrown into an eternal fire.  There is nothing funny about that.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Trinity, hellfire are not in the Bible.

 

Those specific words may not be, but the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit and Hell are in the Bible.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Why are you changing the subject to Jesus being an angel? 

 

I want to know what you believe, if Jesus is not God, what is He? Human, Angel, Demon, Easter Bunny? What?

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I see, you are losing badly and want to change the subject because you cannot defend your views.  I got it.  If I got slapped around like I did you two I would be running for the hills too. 

 

Yeah, I lost, I cannot compete with your superior intellect.  I already told you that?    

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Oh which has MORE courage here on this forum?  A mod that has the power to do whatever they want with someone like nyk and nstollman backing them up?  Or me ALONE debating all of you on my own?  I think we all know the answer to that one.  

 

I don't know.  Knowing I have the ability to hide/edit your posts, restrict your posting privileges and ban you from the website, while still allowing you to talk down me and to other members here?  I think that takes a lot more restraint than you shooting your mouth off acting like a pompous ass.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Todays pic.  If the Son were ALMIGHTY ALL KNOWING GOD....WHY does he have to learn anything?  I mean, doesnt God know EVERYTHING?  Another proof that Jesus isnt God.

 

Go read Hebrews 2

 

For God to make an appropriate sacrifice, He had to become a Man without His God powers.  He had to lower Himself below the Angels to succeed in defeating Death and Satan.  No other sacrifice would have been sufficient and no other being could have accomplished it.  So God became man and sacrificed Himself for us, so that we would be reconciled to Himself.  And ONLY those who believe that will have Eternal Life, everyone else, did not give Him/God the Glory that he deserved.  That is why there is only one way,Jesus.   

 

John 14:6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

-----------

P.S.  You didn't tell me about the Holy Spirit.

 

20 hours ago, Markinsa said:

One last question for this round.  Are you filled with the Holy Spirit, or have you received the Holy Spirit when you became born again?  When was that?

 

 

.

[PrehistoricMan]

I notice you dont care in the dinar rumor section if WHATEVER the gurus say gets a link. No links allowed there.  I thought I thought....it was a FORUM rule...or something.  I guess things are only ruled on when you are losing in a bible debate.

 

I havent called you any names.  I say ole markinsa etc.  I have said you were blinded.  Facts over feelings. It is not courage on your part to not ban me or edit me.  That is nazism.  I am not cussing you out or anything like that. Talking down to?  Then why not ban yourself?  Havent YOU talked down to me?  People talk down to people in real society.  Debates should be allowed.  

 I am not plagerizing anymore than you quoting your verses stealing from God is plagerizing.  It is the same thing isnt it?  If someone writes something on a topic which would be better than I would write, why not use it?  Are we in school writing a term paper that would penalize plagerism?  No, we are in a simple debate.  Or would you really be happy if I typed out each word instead of copying and pasting relevant material?

 

I have been around awhile?  Well I am pushing 50....

 

I havent told you about the holy spirit for 2 reasons.  We havent fully fleshed out Jesus is not God for one.  Secondly, I KNOW you already know what I am going to say about it.  You are not going to learn so why bother?  I suspect if God told you you were wrong you wouldnt believe him. IF you wrote your supposedly correct verses on one side of a piece of paper than I wrote mine on the right side, my side would dominate yours.  There would be far more evidence to show Jesus is not God and there is not a hell than what you have.  Truth.  I hope you make it to the new world.  I really do.  I would ask God to teach you there.  

 

Just a thought...you quote John 14:6  No one comes to the father except through me.....Um, if Jesus is God too, WHY do we have to go to the father?  And why doesnt Jesus ALSO say no one can also not come to the holy spirit?  I mean it is supposed to be a trinity right?  Yet only 2 are mentioned.  See what I mean?  Your beliefs have giant sized holes in them which you fail to acknowledge.

 

Another scripture.  If the son is God, WHY wouldnt he have all judgement already?  WHY do he has to be given it?  If he is Almighty God, wouldnt he have it all already?  Another proof jesus is not god.

Edited August 21, 2021 by PrehistoricMan

[Markinsa]

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I notice you dont care in the dinar rumor section if WHATEVER the gurus say gets a link. No links allowed there.  I thought I thought....it was a FORUM rule...or something.  I guess things are only ruled on when you are losing in a bible debate.

 

In general links are not allowed in the Dinar Rumors section because 99% of the time, those links come from other Dinar Sites and Adam doesn't want to promote those sites, and doesn't want members here, going there. He wants to keep us here.  And as usual you are reading things into the Rules and What I am doing without knowing what you are talking about.

 

Again read the Forum Rule:

On 12/10/2009 at 7:07 AM, Adam Montana said:

We do not spam our links on other boards – do not mention other dinar sites here. Only post links to LEGITIMATE NEWS SOURCES.

 

I guess in hind sight, jw.org is not really a legitimate source for anything but lies.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

 I am not plagerizing anymore than you quoting your verses stealing from God is plagerizing.  It is the same thing isnt it? 

 

Your logic as usual is flawed. I have been providing links to the scripture I'm quoting.  Though Scripture is easy to confirm by going to the Bible.  HOWEVER, not everyone goes to jw.org for their information.  Therefore, all other topics/posts should provide the links to the information being quoted regardless if you copy and paste or just retype the article.  It is still plagiarism.  

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

If someone writes something on a topic which would be better than I would write, why not use it?

 

I have no problems with you copying and pasting, by all means, do so, but be sure to provide the link and be ready to defend your source's position.  If you continue to use jw.org based material, rest assured I will call you out on it.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Or would you really be happy if I typed out each word instead of copying and pasting relevant material?

 

It has nothing to do with me being happy, but everything to do with following the Forum Rules.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I havent told you about the holy spirit for 2 reasons. ... Secondly, I KNOW you already know what I am going to say about it.

 

You do not know my mind and I don't know yours so you answering my questions about the Holy Spirit will let me know where you are at spiritually.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

IF you wrote your supposedly correct verses on one side of a piece of paper than I wrote mine on the right side, my side would dominate yours.

 

It is all God's Word.  It accomplishes what He means for it to.  The Scripture is NOT WRONG, just the interpretations, yours or mine.

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

 I hope you make it to the new world.  I really do.  I would ask God to teach you there.  

 

I rather go to the place Jesus has prepared for me.  

 

 

2 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Just a thought...you quote John 14:6  No one comes to the father except through me.....Um, if Jesus is God too, WHY do we have to go to the father?  And why doesnt Jesus ALSO say no one can also not come to the holy spirit?  I mean it is supposed to be a trinity right?  Yet only 2 are mentioned.  See what I mean?  Your beliefs have giant sized holes in them which you fail to acknowledge.

 

WHO was Jesus talking to?  The disciples before the resurrection.  They didn't realize He was God.  Just like you, you won't admit it, but HE is telling them and you, HE is the ONLY way.  And yet here you are denying WHO he is.

 

In the very next verse, which is why you shouldn't just pick out one verse, Jesus tells them:

 

John 14:7-14

7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I am going to the Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

 

15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.  (Who's commandments?  God's commandments, but Jesus say's "My commandments".  Is Jesus a liar?

 

.

[new york kevin]

14 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I have no fear of the imaginery hell.  It doesnt exist.  However and I hope you do make it, I want to be there to see the look on your face when God tells you everything you ever believed was wrong.

You can go to hell Mister , not me .  I knows whose I am, and where I will go when I die . Again, thanks for showing the DV world that view this thread you are moronic, and do not know what you believe in . Case in point First, you say you do not believe in the Godhead , a cornerstone of the Christian faith . Then you say that hell is imaginary, despite the biblical quotes of how the bible describes hell and eternal life in it . There by invalidating the entirety of the Bible because if you cannot comprehend 1 piece of the bible then it must all be bunk. This is the part I like as evidence that you are all over the place and possibly bipolar , by wishing me  to go to your non-existent hell (your words not mine) , sometime after you have already arrived, so you can see the shock on my face upon my arrival. You either believe in hell or you don't Sir. How can the likes of you 

[PrehistoricMan]

7 minutes ago, new york kevin said:

You can go to hell Mister , not me .  I knows whose I am, and where I will go when I die . Again, thanks for showing the DV world that view this thread you are moronic, and do not know what you believe in . Case in point First, you say you do not believe in the Godhead , a cornerstone of the Christian faith . Then you say that hell is imaginary, despite the biblical quotes of how the bible describes hell and eternal life in it . There by invalidating the entirety of the Bible because if you cannot comprehend 1 piece of the bible then it must all be bunk. This is the part I like as evidence that you are all over the place and possibly bipolar , by wishing me  to go to your non-existent hell (your words not mine) , sometime after you have already arrived, so you can see the shock on my face upon my arrival. You either believe in hell or you don't Sir. How can the likes of you 

Uh oh...you say I can go to hell.  Isnt that a um, violation?  No I NEVER said you would go to hell.  Why?  Because it doesnt exist.  You twist my words.  When I said I hope you make it it wasnt to the hell that doesnt exist, it is the new paradise Earth.  That is where I want to see the look on your face when everything you have believed will be wrong.  Then you will have to be retaught.  You will be stamping your feet demanding you be in heaven.  The other brothers and I will laugh and you realize that you were fed lies.  

 

See God made man to be on the Earth.  NOT to live in heaven.  Otherwise why didnt he create us in heaven to begin with?  Ever think of that?  No of course not.  I also will NOT be in heaven.  God created me to be on the Earth.  Here is where I will be.  Psalms 37:29  Go ahead and dont read it.  You certainly dont read any other verses I post.  

 

Again I asked you for the scripture WHERE in the Bible does it say that the trinity was a cornerstone of the christian faith?  IN fact why write the Bible at all if that is all we need to believe in?  Why not just write one word, Trinity then we wouldnt have this big book to carry around?  Again if the trinity is SO important, why is it never discussed in any of the hebrew scriptures?  Jews today dont believe in a trinity.  Can you find me one verse in the old testament that talks about a trinity?  Just one?  Why didnt the jews EVER talk about Father son and holy ghost?

[PrehistoricMan]

2 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

In general links are not allowed in the Dinar Rumors section because 99% of the time, those links come from other Dinar Sites and Adam doesn't want to promote those sites, and doesn't want members here, going there. He wants to keep us here.  And as usual you are reading things into the Rules and What I am doing without knowing what you are talking about.

 

Again read the Forum Rule:

 

I guess in hind sight, jw.org is not really a legitimate source for anything but lies.

 

 

Your logic as usual is flawed. I have been providing links to the scripture I'm quoting.  Though Scripture is easy to confirm by going to the Bible.  HOWEVER, not everyone goes to jw.org for their information.  Therefore, all other topics/posts should provide the links to the information being quoted regardless if you copy and paste or just retype the article.  It is still plagiarism.  

 

 

I have no problems with you copying and pasting, by all means, do so, but be sure to provide the link and be ready to defend your source's position.  If you continue to use jw.org based material, rest assured I will call you out on it.

 

 

It has nothing to do with me being happy, but everything to do with following the Forum Rules.

 

 

You do not know my mind and I don't know yours so you answering my questions about the Holy Spirit will let me know where you are at spiritually.

 

 

It is all God's Word.  It accomplishes what He means for it to.  The Scripture is NOT WRONG, just the interpretations, yours or mine.

 

 

I rather go to the place Jesus has prepared for me.  

 

 

 

WHO was Jesus talking to?  The disciples before the resurrection.  They didn't realize He was God.  Just like you, you won't admit it, but HE is telling them and you, HE is the ONLY way.  And yet here you are denying WHO he is.

 

In the very next verse, which is why you shouldn't just pick out one verse, Jesus tells them:

 

John 14:7-14

7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I am going to the Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

 

15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.  (Who's commandments?  God's commandments, but Jesus say's "My commandments".  Is Jesus a liar?

 

.

Yes Jesus is the only way.  We can agree on it.  But I have been over this and over this.  Just because he says the father is in him does not make him God.  WHERE is the ole holy spirit?  Why is he always left out of these conversations?  You notice Jesus hardly ever talks about it no?  

I will do my best to provide a link.  Just because you are the boss.  A link would be good.  It would allow other readers here to get ahold of the info you dont want them to see.   so it is all good.

Examining the Trinity: Seen Me: Seen Father-John 14:7-9

 

John 14:1 - "believe in God, believe also in me." 14:7 - "If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. (:8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. (:9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? (:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works." - ASV.

We can understand what Jesus actually intended when he said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" and "the Father is abiding in me." And it is not very difficult to understand his saying, "If you had known me, you would have known my Father" since Jesus is in perfect harmony with the Father's will and purpose (i.e. "one," "in," etc.). But what about "he that has seen me has seen the Father"?

First, let's examine the relationship between "abiding in," "knowing," and "seeing" (horao in NT Greek) as commonly used figuratively in the Bible. 1 John 2:3, 5, 6 - "by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments .... By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner He walked [your purpose, actions words, and life must reflect his example]." - NASB. And 1 John 3:29, "he that keeps His [God's] commandments abides in Him, and He in him." - NASB. These scriptures show, again, the intended meaning for the figurative use of "abides."

Now notice the relationship between "know" and "see": 3 John 11 - "the one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen [horao] God." And 1 John 3:6 - "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen [horao] Him or knows Him." - NASB.

We can see, then, that horao ("see") can mean the same thing as "abiding in" or "knowing," and all three may have the figurative meaning of agreement in purpose and will with someone else.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, vol. 4, p. 380, tells us:

"What is seen in a vision is a revelation from God. Statements that human beings have seen or will see God Himself do not refer to a perception of a physical aspect of God by human physical senses but a process of coming to some amount of understanding of God, often just a simple realization of His greatness or some other aspect of His nature, either by a revelatory vision (Isa. 6:15; Ezk. 1:26-28), … or by their acquaintance with Jesus Christ (Jn 14:9, cf. 1:18)." – Eerdmans, 1991.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 3, 1986 printing, Zondervan, pp. 513, 515, 518, explains the meanings of horao.

"Horao" means "... become aware (Gen. 37:1). (b) figuratively it comes to be used of intellectual or spiritual perception .... It also means ... attend to, know or have experienced (Deut. 11:2), or be concerned about something (Gen. 37:14; Is. 5:12)." - p. 513. - - "Besides the general meaning of to know, horao and its derivatives can mean to obtain knowledge". - p. 515.

This trinitarian reference also states:

"For the NT God is utterly invisible (Jn 6:46; 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16; Col. 1:15) ... yet the resurrection narratives especially stress that the risen Christ is visible." - p. 518.

Professor Joseph H. Thayer (who was "the dean of New Testament scholars in America" - Dictionary of American Biography, Vol. IX) in his Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament ("a standard in the field") also defines horao with similar meanings and specifically tells us that John 14:7, 9 is in the category of "2. to see with the mind, to perceive, to KNOW."

In discussing this meaning of "horao," Thayer writes:

"to know God's will, 3 John 11; from the intercourse and influence of Christ to have come to see (know) God's majesty, saving purposes, and WILL, Jn. xiv. 7, 9". - p. 451, Baker Book House, 1984 printing.

We can understand, then, why the very trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, 1985, Zondervan, explains John 14:7 this way:

"Once more Jesus stresses the intimate connection between the Father and himself. Jesus brought a full revelation of the Father (cf. 1:18), so that the apostles had real knowledge of him." - footnote for John 14:7.

Trinitarian minister and acclaimed New Testament scholar, Dr. William Barclay, also comments on John 14:7-9:

"The Jews [including Jesus, of course, and those to whom he spoke] would count it as an article of faith that no man had seen God at any time .... To see Jesus is to see what God is like." - p. 159. "`He who has seen me has seen the Father,' Jesus is the revelation of God." - p. 161.

And,

"The danger of the Christian faith is that we may set up Jesus as a kind of secondary God. But Jesus himself insists that the things he said and the things he did did not come from his own initiative or his own power or his own knowledge but from God. His words were God's voice speaking to men; His deeds were God's power flowing through him to men. He was the channel by which God came to men." - The Daily Study Bible Series: The Gospel of John, pp. 159, 161, 162, Vol. 2, The Westminster Press, 1975.

So there is no real reason to insist that John 14:7, 9 shows Jesus as being equally God with his Father. The probability is that, in harmony with the usage of the time, Jesus was merely saying that what he spoke came from God, and what he did is what God directed. He meant that understanding what he did and said was like knowing ("seeing") God* (as, in a similar sense, those who literally saw angels sent by God and speaking God's words were said to have "seen God"). Jesus is totally in harmony with ("one" with) the Father in purpose (see the ONE study paper) so that we can "see" the Father's will in Jesus.

As in all other "Jesus is equally God" evidence, we find that the trinitarian "proof" is a scripture that can honestly be translated or interpreted in at least one other way which would prove no such thing!

We never find a statement clearly stating that "Jesus is equally and fully God" in the entire Bible. And yet other such essential knowledge that leads to eternal life is clearly and repeatedly emphasized: "Jesus is the Christ [Messiah]," "our savior and king" - the one who appears before God in heaven in our behalf, the one through whom we must approach God. Surely this most important information in the Bible of exactly who God is and exactly who Jesus is would not be hidden from us in the slightest degree!

[new york kevin]

15 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I have no fear of the imaginery hell.  It doesnt exist.  However and I hope you do make it, I want to be there to see the look on your face when God tells you everything you ever believed was wrong.  That would be hilarious.  Oh, I am not going to heaven either.

You can go to hell Mister , that's you exercising your free will, not me.  I knows whose I am, and where I will go when I die . Again, thanks for showing the DV world that view this thread you are a blind moronic authoritarian , and do not know what you believe in . Case in point , you say you do not believe in the Godhead , a cornerstone of the Christian faith . Then you say that hell is imaginary, despite the biblical quotes given you of how the bible describes hell and eternal life in it . There by invalidating the entirety of the Bible because if you cannot comprehend 1 piece of the bible then it must all be bunk. Your belief, not mine. This is the part I like as evidence that you are all over the place and possibly bipolar , by wishing me  to go to your non-existent hell (your words not mine) , sometime after you have already arrived in a place that does not exist according to you. All so you can see the shock on my face upon my arrival. You either believe in hell or you don't Sir. You cannot have it both ways , unless you are a professional politician . Are you a professional politician ? At least when you are waiting in line to see if you get into heaven, and you hear Jesus say depart from Me I never knew you and then sending you to hell ; at least you won't be able to say that no one ever told you about these things. Man, I hope to see the look on your face when that happens; in  non-gloating sort of way of course. Likely, I will be sad that you stayed in denial to the end . Oh well, I did my part.  

[Markinsa]

13 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I will do my best to provide a link.  Just because you are the boss.  A link would be good.  It would allow other readers here to get ahold of the info you dont want them to see.   so it is all good.

Examining the Trinity: Seen Me: Seen Father-John 14:7-9

 

Providing a link not so hard was it?  But I gotta tell ya, this is what I got from that defense you just posted.

 

 

[Markinsa]

18 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

WHERE is the ole holy spirit?  Why is he always left out of these conversations?

 

That is a good question, you still have failed to answer mine.

 

On 8/20/2021 at 8:28 PM, Markinsa said:

One last question for this round.  Are you filled with the Holy Spirit, or have you received the Holy Spirit when you became born again?  When was that?

[new york kevin]

15 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I have no fear of the imaginery hell.  It doesnt exist.  However and I hope you do make it, I want to be there to see the look on your face when God tells you everything you ever believed was wrong.  That would be hilarious.  Oh, I am not going to heaven either. 

You liar, liar you . Your quote above proves you made the  statement in a indirect manner and then turned around and claim you never said the thing. Unless rules of grammar, sentence structure, leading to conclusions don't apply in your world.  Yes you did not use the phrase ' go to hell' , the grammatic conclusion you built in your sentence structure concludes the same.  Come on man, Joe Biden you ain't . 

[Markinsa]

24 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

But I have been over this and over this.  Just because he says the father is in him does not make him God.

 

See the post below:

 

Paying particular attention to God calling Jesus God:

 

11 hours ago, Markinsa said:

8 But regarding the Son He says,

 

“Your throne, God, is forever and ever,
And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of joy above Your companions.”

 

 

[PrehistoricMan]

18 minutes ago, new york kevin said:

You liar, liar you . Your quote above proves you made the  statement in a indirect manner and then turned around and claim you never said the thing. Unless rules of grammar, sentence structure, leading to conclusions don't apply in your world.  Yes you did not use the phrase ' go to hell' , the grammatic conclusion you built in your sentence structure concludes the same.  Come on man, Joe Biden you ain't . 

Well I am sorry you miscontrued it like that.  If I say hell doesnt exist, WHAT point would it be for saying you should be there?  I cannot figure out your logic.  Why would I wish you someplace that doesnt exist?

 

No I was wishing you would be in the new world.  I dont know how God is going to react.  You may make it or it is just death.  At least you wont be in a hell.  That we can be sure of.  Ecclesiates 9:5New International Version
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

New Living Translation
The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered.

 

So if the dead KNOW nothing, how can they be hurting in a hell?  Dontcha need to have some kind of conscience to know you are burning?

[PrehistoricMan]

29 minutes ago, Markinsa said:

 

That is a good question, you still have failed to answer mine.

 

Born again...lets look at it.  Defend Jehovah's Witnesses: "Born Again" - What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe it Means? (defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com)

 

"Born Again" - What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe it Means?

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NQu1ZWI7PhY/Uu5zZxGjoZI/AAAAAAAAHSk/c4ozBkF0C0c/s1600/Born-Again.jpgJehovah’s Witnesses believe everything the Bible teaches about Christ. If anyone did not confess Jesus as
Lord and Savior and demonstrate that confession by their actions they would not be accepted as a Jehovah’s Witnesses.

But when it comes to what it means to be “born again” we must be aware of different definitions. Most people have been taught that being "born again" simply means taking on a new (Christian) life or accepting Jesus as our savior. So, according to that definition Witnesses could answer: "Yes, all Witnesses are born again," since we must accept Christ as our Lord and Savior.

However, Witnesses are very careful to use Scriptural terms in their proper sense, so we would also mention that the Scriptural meaning was a different from this common definition and our belief must agree with that.

In Scripture the term "born again" is only applied to those who have been "adopted" as sons of God and heirs with Christ for a resurrection to the heavens. They are said to be "God's children" in a special sense because of this new and special "adoption" to a heavenly life (1Pet.1:3-4,18-19, 23; Rom.8:13-17; Heb.12:23). These are "born again" because their future is life in the heavenly realm rather than God's original earthly purpose for humankind. This was a new arrangement for humans put in effect only after Christ came to earth. (Jn.1:9-13; Jas. 1:17-18; 2Cor.5:17).

Those who have an earthly hope have no need for a "rebirth" to heavenly life. They are simply God's children in the same way Adam, Abraham and other pre-Christian humans were. They are dedicated to doing God's will for them-- which is to be faithful and fulfill God's original purpose for the earth (Gen.1:28; 2:15; Ps.37:29; Rev.21:3,4).

This is confirmed throughout the Bible. At Mt. 5:5 Christ adopted the words of Ps.37:10,11,29 to show that the future would be a peaceful earth as God originally decreed. Also God’s will would ”be done on Earth as it is in heaven" shows His stated purpose for righteous ones is to live for "eternity on earth."

At Mt 19:28 Jesus spoke of a "regeneration" (PALINGENESIA). It is God's stated purpose "to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth" (Eph.1:10).

Similarly we have the contrast in Rom. 8:19-22 between the "son's of God" who are revealed and the "creation" who also are "children of God." Both groups will gain freedom from sin (1Jn.3:2; 1Cor.15:48-49; Phil.3:20-21).

So the belief in two groups, one with a heavenly future and one with a future on paradise earth is clearly taught in many scriptures. Most religions just ignore the explicit statements by Jesus and the Scriptures which show that most humans will enjoy everlasting life on earth.

Witnesses understand the different nuances between being "born again" and being "born of God." So, unlike other religious writers who do not completely understand the Bible, our literature properly makes a differentiation when the Scriptures are using terms in technical ways and general statements.

Unlike other religions, we accept the strong Scriptural evidence of two groups of Christians both who gain salvation, one spoken of as a limited number who would be "born again" as kings in heaven and then a great multitude of subjects who "inherit the earth." Most religions ignore the explicit statements by Jesus and the Scriptures which show that most humans will enjoy everlasting life on earth (Mt.5:5; 6:10; Ps.37,9,10,29; Isa.66:19-24; 24:1-6; Rev.21:3,4; cf. Jn.3:13; Ac 2:34)

 

So no, I am not born again.  And I never will be.

[nstoolman1]

Someone left Baptism out of the Born Again equation.

Important part if you ask me.

What does the Bible say about baptism? 

Acts 2:38 says, “Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” This scripture encourages us that when we are baptized, we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit and he becomes part of us.

[PrehistoricMan]

35 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

Someone left Baptism out of the Born Again equation.

Important part if you ask me.

What does the Bible say about baptism? 

Acts 2:38 says, “Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” This scripture encourages us that when we are baptized, we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit and he becomes part of us.

Does baptism forgive sins?  I thought you trinitarians only believed God could forgive sins.  Jesus was baptized was he not?  IF baptism forgives sins, why did a man like Jesus have to be baptized if he had never sinned in his life?

[nstoolman1]

35 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Does baptism forgive sins?  I thought you trinitarians only believed God could forgive sins.  Jesus was baptized was he not?  If baptism forgives sins, why did a man like Jesus have to be baptized if he had never sinned in his life?

So your saying you don't believe in Baptism? And you say you are a Christian.

The Baptism John performed was not the same as the New Testament Baptism.

No, the act of Baptism doesn't forgive sins. 

[PrehistoricMan]

2 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

So your saying you don't believe in Baptism? And you say you are a Christian.

The Baptism John performed was not the same as the New Testament Baptism.

No, the act of Baptism doesn't forgive sins. 

How do you come up with these things?  The Bible CLEARLY talks about baptism.  Heck we are looking at the verse right now.  How can you say I dont believe in them?  You are quite illogical.  

 

I asked if baptisms forgive sins as this verse says.  Geez man.  “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.  It LITERALLY says repent and be baptized FOR forgiveness of sins.  Why cant you see that?  The words are right there.  I feel like I am talking to my Aunt Sophie here.

[nstoolman1]

And I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old. You argue a point and then get mad when proven wrong.

 

[PrehistoricMan]

9 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

And I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old. You argue a point and then get mad when proven wrong.

 

Proven wrong?  How?  Show me where I said baptisms werent necessary.  If you cannot then you would be wrong would you not?  Still didnt answer my question.  That seems to be a running gag here.  Do baptisms forgive sins as that verse says?  

[nstoolman1]

You omitted baptism from your post about being " born again". I figured you did not think it important.

I then answered your question: Did I think Baptism forgave sins? I  answered no, they do not.

 

[PrehistoricMan]

3 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

You omitted baptism from your post about being " born again". I figured you did not think it important.

I then answered your question: Did I think Baptism forgave sins? I  answered no, they do not.

 

I think baptism is important.  I was baptized.  1994.

 

 “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

 

Repent and be baptized....FOR the forgiveness of your sins.  Why is it you read that and it doesnt compute for you?  It literally says that.  I really dont understand how you can read that and say it doesnt say what it says.  Is it just because ole prehistoric man cannot be right under any circumstances?  Or is it something else?  Please tell me you are not a robot that has pre programmed responses like the other two I am debating.  Please tell me you can think for yourself.  Does it say that or not?  I dont understand how people can read a verse and it is clear what it says but they think it says something else.  It baffles me.  For instance thou shall not steal.  Now I think it means do not steal.  Will you say that too or is it more important to you that I am wrong about that too?