God is opinion and doesn't care if it's name is Capitalized... or does She?

[PrehistoricMan]

4 hours ago, new york kevin said:

Heretic ! Stop trying to manipulate what the bible says by your self declarations that if this xyz small section is not true than the entire bible is not true . You may not understand it, possibly because there is a underlying purpose to what you are saying. Possibly , you have held onto your atheistic beliefs so strongly for so long ,never really learning about The Bible , that the truths of the answers you are receiving here from myself and others, well they are rocking your atheistic  foundations. The entirety of Exodus 33 is a conversation between God and Moses on the mountain . You would know that if you actually read the whole thing . Read the whole of chapter 33 of Exodus.  If that does not clarify everything for you, read the entirety of The Book of Exodus which is the story on how Father God brought His people the Jews out of Egypt and slavery, and then opine . 

I have read the Bible multiple times.  JUST because I do not believe Jesus is God does not make me an athiest.  It is because it is not supported in the Bible.  You are the one manipulating it.  You think that scripture is a lie.  Here is another scripture that you think lies.  In Hosea and Numbers it says God is not a man.  Well if God is not a man, and Jesus WAS a man, then Jesus cannot be God.  

[Markinsa]

@PrehistoricMan

 

[Isa 59:2 NASB20]

 

2 But your wrongdoings have caused a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden [His] face from you so that He does not hear. (And you wonder why no one had seen his face.)

----

 

If Jesus is just a man, how could He be with God at the beginning creating Everything for Himself?

 

[Col 1:9-23 NASB20]

 

9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard [about it,] have not ceased praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please [Him] in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all perseverance and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.

 

13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

15 He (TALKING ABOUT JESUS) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

 

21 And although you were previously alienated and hostile in attitude, [engaged] in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His body of flesh through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

----

 

Do we have multiple spirits living in us?  God's Spirit and Christ's Spirit or is there just one Spirit?

 

[Rom 8:6-11 NASB20]

 

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able [to do so,] 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[new york kevin]

3 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I have read the Bible multiple times.  JUST because I do not believe Jesus is God does not make me an athiest.  It is because it is not supported in the Bible.  You are the one manipulating it.  You think that scripture is a lie.  Here is another scripture that you think lies.  In Hosea and Numbers it says God is not a man.  Well if God is not a man, and Jesus WAS a man, then Jesus cannot be God.  

Dude, still you are cherry picking and  mixing OT and NT , and apparently failing to do the work yourself to reconcile. That's kinda like saying math is fake because when learning addition you refuse to recognize what the " + " sign is for .  Regarding these out of context quotes give me 2 verses before them, and 2 verses after each of  them then we will talk .

[new york kevin]

P.S.  Oh yeah , what Markinsa said !

[PrehistoricMan]

7 hours ago, Markinsa said:

@PrehistoricMan

 

[Isa 59:2 NASB20]

 

2 But your wrongdoings have caused a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden [His] face from you so that He does not hear. (And you wonder why no one had seen his face.)

----

 

If Jesus is just a man, how could He be with God at the beginning creating Everything for Himself?

 

[Col 1:9-23 NASB20]

 

9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard [about it,] have not ceased praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please [Him] in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all perseverance and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.

 

13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

15 He (TALKING ABOUT JESUS) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, [both] in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the [Father's] good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

 

21 And although you were previously alienated and hostile in attitude, [engaged] in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His body of flesh through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

----

 

Do we have multiple spirits living in us?  God's Spirit and Christ's Spirit or is there just one Spirit?

 

[Rom 8:6-11 NASB20]

 

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able [to do so,] 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

Told you I dont debate mods....but here let me say something that you said to me....Nice copy and paste.  I see the trinity clowns also do your thinking for you.

[PrehistoricMan]

6 hours ago, new york kevin said:

Dude, still you are cherry picking and  mixing OT and NT , and apparently failing to do the work yourself to reconcile. That's kinda like saying math is fake because when learning addition you refuse to recognize what the " + " sign is for .  Regarding these out of context quotes give me 2 verses before them, and 2 verses after each of  them then we will talk .

I am not debating markinsa, I am debating you.  And winning.  The bible doesnt lie.  Doesnt matter what is said before or after.  You dont like what I post because it destroys your beliefs.  Here is another scripture to destroy the trinity.  

But go ahead and wish it away like you have done before.  Perhaps if you close your eyes and stamp your feet, cover your ears and say la la la...it might just disappear from the Bible you dont read.  Jesus isnt God.  This is now verses 3 and 4 that busts that myth.

[nstoolman1]

John 10 

[30] I and my Father are one.

 

 

[PrehistoricMan]

2 hours ago, nstoolman1 said:

John 10 

[30] I and my Father are one.

 

 

Answer honestly.....If I say my wife and I are one, does that make us one being?  Because that is literally the logic you are trying to use here.  OR doesnt it make more sense that we are one in life, purpose, love etc.?  Lets go to John 17:21  Because if you are trying to make the case that Jesus and God are one being then also the apostles formed into one being according to this verse.  DID THEY?  Did the 11 apostles form like a frickin transformer into ONE human?  smh  And since you are trying to make the case that Jesus is God...WHERE is the holy spirit at your verse of John 10:30?  Why didnt Jesus mention him there if he was truly trying to convey a trinity?  Oops...I guess he forgot eh?

Edited August 15, 2021 by PrehistoricMan

[Markinsa]

20 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Told you I dont debate mods....but here let me say something that you said to me....Nice copy and paste.  I see the trinity clowns also do your thinking for you.

 

The only copy and paste I did was from the Bible.  You on the other hand used the watch tower's talking points.  From your reply it appears you have a problem with God's word.

 

John 1:1 ( NASB20]

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

John 1: 1 (NWT)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.+

 

----

[Deu 6:4 NASB20] 4 "Hear, Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

 

[Deu 32:39 NASB20] 39 'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; [It is] I [who] put to death and give life. I have wounded and [it is] I [who] heal, And there is no one who can save [anyone] from My hand.

 

[Isa 43:10 NASB20] 10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

 

[Isa 44:6 NASB20] 6 "This is what the LORD says, [He who is] the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of armies: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

 

[Isa 45:21-23 NASB20] 21 "Declare and present [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this long ago? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23 "I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear [allegiance.]

 

[Phl 2:9-10 NASB20] 9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Markinsa
Inserted links to verses

[PrehistoricMan]

5 hours ago, Markinsa said:

 

The only copy and paste I did was from the Bible.  You on the other hand used the watch tower's talking points.  From your reply it appears you have a problem with God's word.

 

John 1:1 ( NASB20]

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

John 1: 1 (NWT)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.+

 

----

[Deu 6:4 NASB20] 4 "Hear, Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

 

[Deu 32:39 NASB20] 39 'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; [It is] I [who] put to death and give life. I have wounded and [it is] I [who] heal, And there is no one who can save [anyone] from My hand.

 

[Isa 43:10 NASB20] 10 "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

 

[Isa 44:6 NASB20] 6 "This is what the LORD says, [He who is] the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of armies: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

 

[Isa 45:21-23 NASB20] 21 "Declare and present [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this long ago? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23 "I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear [allegiance.]

 

[Phl 2:9-10 NASB20] 9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

.

So its ok when you copy and paste but not for others.  See what I mean?  The mod has the power and can set the rules.  Rules for me but no rules for thee.  Just for your info....Copying and pasting multiple scriptures instead of one is bullying.  Trying to intimidate someone else.  Why not do just one and one can be discussed?  None of the scriptures you posted says Jesus is God.  Not one.  Nice untruthful statement there too.  You are not telling the truth by saying ONLY the NWT says A God.  Do you realize how non truthful that is?  Do you think God over looks this?  In fact I have not used the nwt in any of my pics have I?  It seems you are obsessed with the NWT.  Literally no one has mentioned it.  You DO realize that one doesnt have to be a JW to believe Jesus is not God right?  So you using it has no effect on me.  I didnt copy and paste from any JW page.  How do you feel now?  

 

Are you a liberal?  See when liberals talk about Donald Trump, conservatives say that he is living in their head rent free.  Literally NO ONE has talked about JWs here nor used any page or any bible of them here.  So....like a liberal, I think they are in your head rent free.  Trump derangement syndrome?  I think you have JW derangement syndrome.  

• 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
• 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
• 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
• 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
• 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
• 1867: "and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
• 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
• 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
• 1924: "the Logos was divine" – The Bible: James Moffatt Translation, by James Moffatt.^[18]
• 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago.^[19]
• 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.^[20]

 

Did you notice that NONE of the translations above were from any jw bible?  John 1:1 - Wikipedia  It is straight from wikipedia.  Are you saying these bible translations arent true?  Why arent these translations JUST as vaild as those that say the word was God?  Let me ask you, WHY is it so important to you that Jesus is God?  Do you win something if that is true?

Anyways here is another scripture totally destroying the trinity.  Jesus here is saying NO ONE has ever seen God.  Yet again, thousands saw Jesus.  I love how markinsa just ignores these verses.  I dont know why he or she does so.  Why are you so desperate to cling to a narrative that no other scripture supports?  You quoting Deut 6:4 supports ME over you right?

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by PrehistoricMan

[nstoolman1]

17 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

None of the scriptures you posted says Jesus is God. 

 

5 hours ago, Markinsa said:

[Isa 45:21-23 NASB20] 21 "Declare and present [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this long ago? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23 "I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear [allegiance.]

 

[PrehistoricMan]

38 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

 

 

Exactly what I said.  Jesus never comes out and says I AM GOD.  What markinsa and you are doing here is a form of sleight of hand trickery.  Those verses in Isaiah are literally God talking.  But you are trying to twist it and say it is Jesus talking.  It isnt.  You guys feel as it is an absolute statement that there are NO other gods before me.  It isnt.  But also did you notice folks?  That nstollman and markinsa totally ignore the verses which destroy their narrative?  They dont even reason among themselves.  They are so hell bent that Jesus is God that they will ignore all other verses saying the contrary.  Pretty sad.  Lets just use their logic for the isaiah verses here.  Notice that God sets moses up as a god to the egyptians.  Um, GASP,,,, does that mean Moses is God too?  Nstoolman and Markinsa will NEVER reason on this.  Satan has really blinded their minds.  Can they use their noodles this time?  If they can properly reason that no, moses is NOT really God the Almighty, perhaps they can see that Jesus isnt too.  But I doubt it.  The trinity brainwashing is hard to overcome.  But EVEN in their isaiah verse NOTHING is mentioned about the supposed third part of their trinity, the holy spirit now is it?

[Markinsa]

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

So its ok when you copy and paste but not for others.  See what I mean?  The mod has the power and can set the rules.  Rules for me but no rules for thee. 

 

1.  See quote below. I did NOT tell you copy and paste was against the rules.  I merely pointed out that what you posted was not your own work.  It is a general practice to provide links to "material that you do not create".  People who post news articles provide links to the articles.  It gives credance to the post.  

 

On 8/8/2021 at 10:07 PM, Markinsa said:

 

Nice cut and paste. They even think for you too.   

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

 Rules for me but no rules for thee. 

 

Click here for The Forum Rules.  We all have to live by them.

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

 Just for your info....Copying and pasting multiple scriptures instead of one is bullying. 

 

Really? Seven paragraphs of God's Word intimidates you?

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Why not do just one and one can be discussed?  None of the scriptures you posted says Jesus is God.

 

All of the scriptures I posted addressed the assertion that the "Word was a God".  In more the one instance God said there was no other God but him.  No God Before or After.  So translations that use "a god" in John 1:1 are incorrect because they are NOT in Harmony with the rest of the Bible, therefore it is impossible for Jesus to be "a god", but rather God.

 

So you are correct, none of the scriptures I posted says Jesus is a God.  I just disproved the translations using the "the Word was a God."  

 

Remember Harmony of the Gospels/Scripture is important.

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Nice untruthful statement there too.  You are not telling the truth by saying ONLY the NWT says A God.  Do you realize how non truthful that is?  Do you think God over looks this?

 

Where did I say the NWT was the ONLY translation that used "a god"?    I think God sees everything, knows everything.  He knows where my heart is.  

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

It seems you are obsessed with the NWT.  Literally no one has mentioned it.  You DO realize that one doesnt have to be a JW to believe Jesus is not God right?  So you using it has no effect on me.  I didnt copy and paste from any JW page.  How do you feel now?

 

You started it.  Go back to my 8/8/2021 at 10:07 PM post above and click on the link.  It goes right to a WatchTower webpage and has what you posted verbatim on that page.  Perhaps you got the material from another webpage, but it still does not change that what you posted is a Jehovah's Witness talking point.  I feel pretty good actually. 

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Are you a liberal?  See when liberals talk about Donald Trump, conservatives say that he is living in their head rent free.  Literally NO ONE has talked about JWs here nor used any page or any bible of them here.  So....like a liberal, I think they are in your head rent free.  Trump derangement syndrome?  I think you have JW derangement syndrome.  

 

No, I am as Conservative as they come.  Love Donald Trump, not particularity happy about the Vaccine part or his time in office or his New York/New Jersey brashness, but hey, he's a Cyrus God put in office to do God's work.  

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Did you notice that NONE of the translations above were from any jw bible?  John 1:1 - Wikipedia  It is straight from wikipedia.  Are you saying these bible translations arent true?  Why arent these translations JUST as vaild as those that say the word was God? 

 

It doesn't matter what bible they come from.  They are not in Harmony with the rest of the gospel, so there is no need for me to disprove any of those bibles.  

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Let me ask you, WHY is it so important to you that Jesus is God?  Do you win something if that is true?

 

[Mat 10:32-33 NASB20] 32 "Therefore, everyone who confesses Me before people, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 "But whoever denies Me before people, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

 

Its not important, it is the ONLY THING that makes sense.  There are scriptures that describe God as a Jealous God, a God that will not share His Glory with Anyone.  But here, you have God sharing His Glory with Jesus.  Satan was cast out of heaven for wanting to share in God's Glory.  Plus add to the fact that Jesus was with God BEFORE creation.  Kinda makes it hard to be anything else besides God.  What do you think God/Jesus will think for all of those people who denied his Deity?  How can YOU believe in Jesus if you don't even know who HE is?

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Anyways here is another scripture totally destroying the trinity.  Jesus here is saying NO ONE has ever seen God.  Yet again, thousands saw Jesus.  I love how markinsa just ignores these verses.  I dont know why he or she does so.  

 

I'm not ignoring those verses. Why are you trying to keep God in a box?   What makes you think that what God has said in the OLD Testament concerning certain circumstances hasn't changed with the arrival of Jesus in the New Testament?   Are you calling Jesus a liar?

 

John 14:7-11

 

7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

8 Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 

 

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You quoting Deut 6:4 supports ME over you right?

 

Not really, it just means there isn't more than one God.   Com'on man use your noodle.

 

P.S.  The gender on my profile designates I am a male.  

 

.

.

[Markinsa]

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Exactly what I said.  Jesus never comes out and says I AM GOD.  What markinsa and you are doing here is a form of sleight of hand trickery.  Those verses in Isaiah are literally God talking.  But you are trying to twist it and say it is Jesus talking. 

 

Tell me you aren't that dense?  And again you are missing what the scripture is telling you.  

 

Isaiah is GOD talking.  He is saying there are no other gods besides Him.  Therefore, your argument that Jesus is "a god" is incorrect.  If the scripture isn't interpreted as "a god" then the alternate interpretation is just "God".  Therefore the below translation is correct.

 

[Jhn 1:1 NASB20] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

It seems like I'm repeating myself...

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

That nstollman and markinsa totally ignore the verses which destroy their narrative?  They dont even reason among themselves.  They are so hell bent that Jesus is God that they will ignore all other verses saying the contrary.  Pretty sad. 

 

Dude, you haven't even got off the 1 yard line and you're claiming victory?   Who taught you scripture? 

 

8 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

But EVEN in their isaiah verse NOTHING is mentioned about the supposed third part of their trinity, the holy spirit now is it?

 

 You don't even know who Jesus is and you want to talk about the Holy Spirit?    If you knew Jesus, you would KNOW the Holy Spirit! And that's a fact!  

 

.

 

[PrehistoricMan]

THIS WEBSITE IS NOT AN OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY

This is a personal website that is not officially supported nor endorsed by the WBTS. The Watchtower Society cannot be held responsible for the content found on this blog/website.

 

 

 

So....that is a lie.  This is a disclaimer at the bottom of the page.  It has nothing to do with a watchtower page.  Care to apologize?  Also another lie...my post did not have ANY liniks to this page.  YOU yourself posted the link to this page.  NOT ME.  So it is a lie stating that I posted a link to it.  

Edited August 16, 2021 by PrehistoricMan

[Markinsa]

8 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

THIS WEBSITE IS NOT AN OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY

This is a personal website that is not officially supported nor endorsed by the WBTS. The Watchtower Society cannot be held responsible for the content found on this blog/website.

 

 

 

So....that is a lie.  This is a disclaimer at the bottom of the page.  It has nothing to do with a watchtower page.  Care to apologize?

 

Nope, It is not an OFFICIAL Site, but it sure does have everything about the Watchtower on it. 

 

Do you deny copying and pasting from it because it has your post on that website, verbatim?

 

I see you have no answers for anything else I said.  You just pick out this one thing?

 

 

.

[PrehistoricMan]

Just now, Markinsa said:

 

Nope, It is not an OFFICIAL Site, but it sure does have everything about the Watchtower on it. 

 

Do you deny copying and pasting from it because it has your post on that website, verbatim?

 

I see you have no answers for anything else I said.  You just pick out this one thing?

 

 

.

No, you said it was a watchtower site.  THat is an untruth.  Then you said I posted a link to it.  Also an untruth.  Should I keep posting to you?  So far all I see are untruths.  Be honest and we can continue.  

 

I feel like I am repeating myself.  You didnt address any of my points.  The word was A god.  20 bible translations say that but you dont believe it.  The 6 pics I have posted with scriptures, you ignore them.  John 1:! Jesus was A god is in complete harmony with the rest of the bible.  You are just too blind to see it is all.  

 

Isaiah IS GOD talking and I addressed it...but as usual you ignored it.  THERE ARE MANY GODS IN THE BIBLE.  Have you even read it?  I could copy and paste like you do.  But you wont read it.  You havent so far.  

 

Jesus was CREATED before anything else by God.  In fact he is the firstborn of all Gods creation.  BUT I suspect you know that from Colossians 1:15 and of course choose to ignore it.  Not to mention Revelation 3:14 says Jesus was the begginning of creation...but I suspect you know that too aaaaannnddd ignore it.

 

The you have seen me has seen the father.  BORING!  You know what it means.  It doesnt mean he is the father for crying out loud.  IF my twin brother does the exact same things I do and people want to see him but he is in another country, I can say with conviction you have seen him.  We look alike, we do the same things but I am not him.  But you wont reason on that one.  

 

Ok let me ask you a question.  You seem to think the Isaiah verse proves you right. Isaiah 45:21  

Declare what is to be, present it—
    let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
    who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the Lord?
    And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
    there is none but me.

 

IT is because you think because God says he is the savior here and then Jesus says he is the savior, well gee golly willieckers they must be the same being right?  Is that your argument?

 

AAAANNNDDD again I have to post Exodus 4:16  which you totally ignored.  HERE GOD sets up Moses as a God.  IN YOUR LOGIC, this makes him God.  But but but....I thought God said there were no other gods before him?  How can that be?  You think John 1:1 is an absolute statement.  It isnt.  Jesus is not God.  He is godlike, he is divine, but not God himself.  It is going to be a huge shock to you when the end of this system comes and you will be in the wrong.  I would love to see the expression on your face quite frankly.  

[Markinsa]

3 minutes ago, PrehistoricMan said:

No, you said it was a watchtower site.  THat is an untruth.  Then you said I posted a link to it.  Also an untruth.  Should I keep posting to you?  So far all I see are untruths.  Be honest and we can continue.  

 

I feel like I am repeating myself.  You didnt address any of my points.  The word was A god.  20 bible translations say that but you dont believe it.  The 6 pics I have posted with scriptures, you ignore them.  John 1:! Jesus was A god is in complete harmony with the rest of the bible.  You are just too blind to see it is all.  

 

Isaiah IS GOD talking and I addressed it...but as usual you ignored it.  THERE ARE MANY GODS IN THE BIBLE.  Have you even read it?  I could copy and paste like you do.  But you wont read it.  You havent so far.  

 

Jesus was CREATED before anything else by God.  In fact he is the firstborn of all Gods creation.  BUT I suspect you know that from Colossians 1:15 and of course choose to ignore it.  Not to mention Revelation 3:14 says Jesus was the begginning of creation...but I suspect you know that too aaaaannnddd ignore it.

 

The you have seen me has seen the father.  BORING!  You know what it means.  It doesnt mean he is the father for crying out loud.  IF my twin brother does the exact same things I do and people want to see him but he is in another country, I can say with conviction you have seen him.  We look alike, we do the same things but I am not him.  But you wont reason on that one.  

 

Ok let me ask you a question.  You seem to think the Isaiah verse proves you right. Isaiah 45:21  

Declare what is to be, present it—
    let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
    who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the Lord?
    And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
    there is none but me.

 

IT is because you think because God says he is the savior here and then Jesus says he is the savior, well gee golly willieckers they must be the same being right?  Is that your argument?

 

AAAANNNDDD again I have to post Exodus 4:16  which you totally ignored.  HERE GOD sets up Moses as a God.  IN YOUR LOGIC, this makes him God.  But but but....I thought God said there were no other gods before him?  How can that be?  You think John 1:1 is an absolute statement.  It isnt.  Jesus is not God.  He is godlike, he is divine, but not God himself.  It is going to be a huge shock to you when the end of this system comes and you will be in the wrong.  I would love to see the expression on your face quite frankly.  

 

WOW, you are dense.  I guess we do need to do one scripture at a time.    Ok, I'll bite on the Exodus 4-16.  The phrase "As if" in the scripture, indicates that Moses is a Representative of God.   God's Agent so to speak.  Moses is not God.

 

Concerning John 1:1, do you still maintain that "was a god" position?  If so, does that make Jesus a god?

 

.

[PrehistoricMan]

18 minutes ago, Markinsa said:

 

WOW, you are dense.  I guess we do need to do one scripture at a time.    Ok, I'll bite on the Exodus 4-16.  The phrase "As if" in the scripture, indicates that Moses is a Representative of God.   God's Agent so to speak.  Moses is not God.

 

Concerning John 1:1, do you still maintain that "was a god" position?  If so, does that make Jesus a god?

 

.

  Look how arrogant you sound. ¨ I guess we do need to do one scripture at a time.   ¨  Please do not try to teach anyone the Bible.  You will just run them off.  You are mocking me by implying I am too slow and need one verse at a time.  Did Jesus mock those he was trying to teach?  

 

I KNOW Moses is not God.  You dont.  You think anyone that is called a god is God Almighty himself.  They arent.  YES Jesus can be considered a god.  There are false gods and true gods  out there.  You seem to think this term God is all encompassing.  It isnt.  God Almighty called moses a god.  FACT.  In Isaiah it is noted gods are made of stone and rock etc.  They are STILL called gods.  You seem to think the term god is reserved ONLY for the almighty.  Look if I went back in time with a car....back to bible times....and I drove around in it, I guarantee you the people would think I was a god because this contraption is something their minds couldnt grasp.  

 

Notice I asked you a question about the Isaiah verse.  And you totally ignored it as per usual.  Still waiting for the apology by the way.  I dont think you have enough humility to do so though.  Pretty arrogant.  Soooooo I will ask it for a second time.

 

Ok let me ask you a question.  You seem to think the Isaiah verse proves you right. Isaiah 45:21  

Declare what is to be, present it—
    let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
    who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the Lord?
    And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
    there is none but me.

 

IT is because you think because God says he is the savior here and then Jesus says he is the savior, well gee golly willieckers they must be the same being right?  Is that your argument?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by PrehistoricMan
Forgot to add a pic.

[new york kevin]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:52 PM, PrehistoricMan said:

I am not debating markinsa, I am debating you.  And winning.  The bible doesnt lie.  Doesnt matter what is said before or after.  You dont like what I post because it destroys your beliefs

You are deluded dude.  The last thing you can ever do is to destroy my beliefs in my Lord Jesus Christ . You are solidifying my belief as I respond to you in the way I hear the Father telling me to respond. You are achieving quite the opposite with your cheap Jedi mind trick ... I am destroying your beliefs ... ha ha ha, that is so laughable.  When you say "I am winning"  I picture you in front of the tv replaying over and over the clips of a stoned Charlie Sheen telling everyone that he is winning . Ah ha ha ha ha. Come back to me and "debate" when you have the hutzba to give me 2 verses before and after these out of context verse quotes you sling out there. Are you scared that you may receive revelation as to the lies you have been believing all this time . Because you know the more you do this the closer you are getting to believe as I believe . All who now have salvation were as lost and hungry as you are at one point .  You started this when rvmydinar and you suggested my God was a she . Come after me all you want and debate me . "Debating you is like getting more and more energy in the 4th and 5th round as I sense my opponents defeat. Again, i do not want your defeat I want to help you to receive your salvation and the understanding of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit . You will not be allowed to peel of the souls of those who are on the fence about God and reading these texts .They will be allowed discernment for themselves. Discernment to at minimum look up the quotes you share, and read the 2 verses before and after the one you copy and paste up here and receive enlightenment . In Jesus's name I declare, in Jesus's name I pray.  Amen .

[PrehistoricMan]

21 minutes ago, new york kevin said:

You are deluded dude.  The last thing you can ever do is to destroy my beliefs in my Lord Jesus Christ . You are solidifying my belief as I respond to you in the way I hear the Father telling me to respond. You are achieving quite the opposite with your cheap Jedi mind trick ... I am destroying your beliefs ... ha ha ha, that is so laughable.  When you say "I am winning"  I picture you in front of the tv replaying over and over the clips of a stoned Charlie Sheen telling everyone that he is winning . Ah ha ha ha ha. Come back to me and "debate" when you have the hutzba to give me 2 verses before and after these out of context verse quotes you sling out there. Are you scared that you may receive revelation as to the lies you have been believing all this time . Because you know the more you do this the closer you are getting to believe as I believe . All who now have salvation were as lost and hungry as you are at one point .  You started this when rvmydinar and you suggested my God was a she . Come after me all you want and debate me . "Debating you is like getting more and more energy in the 4th and 5th round as I sense my opponents defeat. Again, i do not want your defeat I want to help you to receive your salvation and the understanding of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit . You will not be allowed to peel of the souls of those who are on the fence about God and reading these texts .They will be allowed discernment for themselves. Discernment to at minimum look up the quotes you share, and read the 2 verses before and after the one you copy and paste up here and receive enlightenment . In Jesus's name I declare, in Jesus's name I pray.  Amen .

Notice folks.  He says he is destroying me by the bible.  And yet....not a single scripture used in this entire diatribe.  I doubt this man has EVER picked up the Bible in his lifetime.  Yes others ARE reading this.  People that are curious about the bible.  Declare in Jesus name all you want.  You have no idea who he is.  Here is another pic of a scripture too.  Wait a second.  If Jesus IS God then why is his food to do the will of the father?  If he is God shouldnt he have his OWN will?  Oh guess not.  And wait how and why does God...send um, God?  And to accomplish HIS work....the fathers work?  Doesnt Jesus have works of his own?  I mean he is afterall, Almighty God right?  Oh, guess not.  The sender is ALWAYS greater than the one being sent.  More scriptural proof that Jesus is not God Almighty.

[Markinsa]

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Look how arrogant you sound. ¨ I guess we do need to do one scripture at a time.   ¨  Please do not try to teach anyone the Bible.  You will just run them off.  You are mocking me by implying I am too slow and need one verse at a time.  Did Jesus mock those he was trying to teach?  

 

I apologize, the way you belittled @nstoolman1 and I, kinda made me pull my gloves off.  And you are the one complaining about me posting too many scriptures, saying that I was trying to bully you, so how would you like me to respond to you?  I post scriptures, thinking that you would be able to read and use some critical thinking to see what the Word of God says and you just completely missed it.  So what to do?

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

I KNOW Moses is not God.  You dont. 

 

I NEVER said Moses was God.  You were the one implying that by our reasoning Moses is God too.  Again:   See my last post where I said the below:

 

1 hour ago, Markinsa said:

Moses is not God.

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

You think anyone that is called a god is God Almighty himself.  They arent.  YES Jesus can be considered a god. 

 

You do realize that all lower cases gods in the bible are demons or false gods don't you?  There is only ONE God, so how can Jesus be considered a god?

 

1 hour ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Still waiting for the apology by the way.  I dont think you have enough humility to do so though.  Pretty arrogant.  Soooooo I will ask it for a second time.

 

Ok let me ask you a question.  You seem to think the Isaiah verse proves you right. Isaiah 45:21  

Declare what is to be, present it—
    let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago,
    who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the Lord?
    And there is no God apart from me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
    there is none but me.

 

IT is because you think because God says he is the savior here and then Jesus says he is the savior, well gee golly willieckers they must be the same being right?  Is that your argument?

 

First of all, I do not owe you an apology.  And I have apologized to you before, but not on what we are currently talking about, so I do have enough humility to apologize.  And I used Isaiah 45:21-23, not just 45:21. See below:

 

[Isa 45:21-23 NASB20] 21 "Declare and present [your case;] Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this long ago? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me. 22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. 23 "I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear [allegiance.]

 

The first all the black bolded text, was to address your post that says the "...Word was a god."  In John 1;1.  

 

The red bolded text was highlighted to show that there are other texts in the New Testament that refer to Jesus in the same way, Jesus as a Savior and every knee will bow and tongue confess Jesus is Lord.  There are Many Prophetic Scriptures in the OLD Testament that tell about Jesus's coming.   Don't you know about Prophecy?

 

.

 

 

[PrehistoricMan]

I dont want to quote you as it would fill up the page.  What I mean is hit the quote button.  Thank you for apologizing.  

 

Moses was installed as a god by God almighty.  That is a fact.  The Bible says it.  It however does not mean that he is God Almighty.  We both can agree on that.  Jesus was also not God Almighty.  Let me ask my Isaiah question again because you didnt touch on it. 

 

 IT is because you think because God says he is the savior here and then Jesus says he is the savior, well gee golly willieckers they must be the same being right?  Is that your argument?  Because Savior is written in Isaiah and the word savior is also said of Jesus in Peter.

 

1 Corinthians 8:5 There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords.   So the fact that Jesus is called Lord doesnt make him God Almighty either.  Because many are called Lord.  

 

Yes I know of prophecy.  Yes I know all of the prophecies concerning the messiah.  However NONE of them say God Almighty will come in human form.

 

The way I look at the Bible is pretty simple.  IT is not only what it says but also of equal importance of what it doesnt say.  Like Your deut 6:4  God says he is one.  What he leaves out and it would have been a perfect opportunity to say God is one but he is also three in one.  Yet, he doesnt say that.  The trinity should be explained THROUGHLY in the Bible.  MANY times.  Not just one or two verses.  Matthew 28:19,20 says three things.  But even then if he were a trinity it would say all in one etc.  It doesnt.  It is mindboggling to me that all the verses that literally say Jesus is NOT God, you cannot see.  You focus solely on John 1:1 without looking at other verses.  For instance....

 

If Jesus were God WHY wouldnt he know when the End is?  I mean, God Almighty knows everything right?  Yet this VITAL piece of information is hidden from Jesus.  It tells me loudly that Jesus is not God Almighty.

Edited August 16, 2021 by PrehistoricMan

[new york kevin]

10 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Notice folks.  He says he is destroying me by the bible.  And yet....not a single scripture used in this entire diatribe.  I doubt this man has EVER picked up the Bible in his lifetime.  Yes others ARE reading this.  People that are curious about the bible.  Declare in Jesus name all you want.  You have no idea who he is.  Here is another pic of a scripture too.  Wait a second.  If Jesus IS God then why is his food to do the will of the father?  If he is God shouldnt he have his OWN will?  Oh guess not.  And wait how and why does God...send um, God?  And to accomplish HIS work....the fathers work?  Doesnt Jesus have works of his own?  I mean he is afterall, Almighty God right?  Oh, guess not.  The sender is ALWAYS greater than the one being sent.  More scriptural proof that Jesus is not God Almighty.

Below are a few vedses  before  verse 34, and a couple after it . 29

"Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ^[2] ?"

30

They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31

Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."

32

But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33

Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34

"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

35

Do you not say, `Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest.

36

Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together.

 

See what a difference the light makes . How a few scriptures before your bumper sticker bible quote bring it i said quote of yours into understanding . In verse 34 in answer to the disciples who wished to serve Jesus by getting Him some food , He told them, and now us, which includes you that what sustains Jesus while He is here on earth, what nourishes his earthly body and Devine Spirt is to do the will of the Father . ... and to finish His work which is 1. To fulfill all that the prophets of the old Testiment said about the Mesiah. 

       Such as

 

How can I identify messianic prophecies in the Old Testament?

ANSWER

By some counts, there are over 300 messianic prophecies in the Old Testament. That’s why in the New Testament we often find statements like this: “These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled” (John 19:36). Some messianic prophecies in the Old Testament are fairly straightforward; others are more indirect. Here are some pointers on identifying prophecies of the Messiah:

Study the Word. This should go without saying, but, in understanding the Bible, there’s no substitute for actually reading the Bible and prayerfully seeking wisdom from on high (James 1:5). Some messianic prophecies in the Old Testament are clearly identified as such by the prophets who wrote them. The word Messiah means “Anointed One” or “Chosen One,” and those titles are found in several prophecies. Daniel 9:25–26 is an important prophecy about the Messiah’s death. Psalm 2:2 also refers to the Lord’s Anointed.

Of course, context is always important when we interpret Scripture. Not every mention of an “anointed one” in the Old Testament is a reference to the promised Messiah. King Cyrus of Persia is called God’s anointed one in Isaiah 45:1, and so is King Saul in 1 Samuel 24:10; both those kings were chosen by God for special work, which is the underlying meaning of being “anointed.”

Learn the various titles of the Messiah. Some messianic prophecies in the Old Testament use different names for the Messiah. For example, Isaiah 42:1 speaks of the Messiah as the “Servant” of the Lord. The prophecy of Numbers 24:17 calls the Messiah the “Star” that comes from Judah. In Isaiah 11:1, the Messiah is a “Branch” that bears much fruit. Often, the Messiah is presented in the Old Testament as a king who will rule in righteousness (see Isaiah 9:6–7; 32:1; Jeremiah 23:5; Zechariah 9:9).

Compare Scripture with Scripture. Some messianic prophecies in the Old Testament are identified by New Testament writers. Matthew is especially helpful in linking Old Testament prophecies to their fulfillment in the life of Christ. Jesus’ birth is the fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14 (cp. Matthew 1:18–23). Jesus’ flight to Egypt turns out to be the fulfillment of an indirect prophecy in Hosea 11:1 (cp. Matthew 2:15). Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem is linked to Zechariah 9:9 (cp. Matthew 21:1–5). Jesus’ death on the cross fulfilled many Old Testament prophecies, including Psalm 34:20 and Zechariah 12:10 (cp. John 19:31–37).

 

Jesus is both Messiah and servant . God and man . He knows the human body needs food to survive , but God is also telling His believers , in verse 34, here that what sustains the servant of God who is sent  by Father is to do the will of the Father . Reinforcing the teaching that God will provide for every need , for His servant that is sent out to do their calling in fulfillment of the great commission.  Which is to go out I to all the world and preach the gospel .  P.S. Jesus even in His earthly body has His own supply of free will. It is Jesus exercising His free will , to be sustained by doing the will of the Father. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by new york kevin

[new york kevin]

9 hours ago, PrehistoricMan said:

Moses was installed as a god by God almighty.  That is a fact.  The Bible says it.  It however does not mean that he is God Almighty.  We both can agree on that.  Jesus was also not God Almighty.  Let me ask my Isaiah question again because you didnt touch on it. 

Heresy . Not part of Christianity at all, at all ! Proof that this person does not know the Lord Jesus Christ at all . God did not install Moses as a God.  (Though I suspect I know what Pre-man is trying to set up here with this remark.) God chose Moses just like He chose me, and everyone else that knows Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savoir . Exactly the same way.  Let everyone go to any and all future bible quotes, and send him that verse with 2 or so verses before and after, and send that to him. Hear this too, there is one being that knows more about Jesus than you or I ; that being is satan. Sh-im can twist the words about the bible, Jesus, with its smooth and velvet tongue . Kinda like Jim Jones did . But if you know who's you are in Christ Jesus, which is co-heir to the things of heaven, the Father , Son , and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit living inside you will prevent you from the snares of the enemy, which are thrown at your feet to cause your stumbling by those who serve the one who comes to kill, steal and destroy. Umm, that would be from John 10:10 . 

 I will be praying for you Pre-man. It is my belief that the stronger Satan attacks you, directly or through its servants, it is an indication of how much damage you could do to Satan's plans, should you discover whose you are in Christ. You Pre-man could be powerful in dismantling the things of hell, if you exercise your free will to serve the Lord. He will use you to perform greater miracles and to delivery greater sermons than Jesus did . If only you excepted Jesus as Lord and Savior , for real. Then simply lived according to The Word . But God will never force you,  either will I. I will shout from the mountain top when a deceiving mouth piece is trying to cause God's flock to go a stray. Everytime.

Edited August 16, 2021 by new york kevin