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QAnon's Corrosive Impact On The U.S.


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60 minutes and Leslie Stahl.....only hard hitting investigative reporting....right...?

 

We witnessed the entirety of the Trump interview.....and then how that was cut down to the desired network talking points.....

 

She did make some fair points in this one.......1 in 10 arrested were Q followers.......so 10%......and the former HLS girl stated that the Qanon movement was thought of as peaceful....

 

The point not being made is Q and the Anons are 2 different entities.....Q does not control the Anon movement..... 

 

I Wonder what the total number of Anons really is?

My bet.......pretty small......

 

I wonder why the left keeps them in the news.....giving them free publicity......probably just a smoke screen to cover for all the damage Bidens doing to the country.....

 

Do any of you personally know any of these Qanons?

If so are they crazy....threatening....or violent......for that matter, does anyone reading this know any antifa movement people?......

 

60 minutes.......whole lot of wind about nothing.....just meant to further divide the country....     JMO.    CL

 

 

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19 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

60 minutes and Leslie Stahl.....only hard hitting investigative reporting....right...?

 

We witnessed the entirety of the Trump interview.....and then how that was cut down to the desired network talking points.....

 

She did make some fair points in this one.......1 in 10 arrested were Q followers.......so 10%......and the former HLS girl stated that the Qanon movement was thought of as peaceful....

 

The point not being made is Q and the Anons are 2 different entities.....Q does not control the Anon movement..... 

 

I Wonder what the total number of Anons really is?

My bet.......pretty small......

 

I wonder why the left keeps them in the news.....giving them free publicity......probably just a smoke screen to cover for all the damage Bidens doing to the country.....

 

Do any of you personally know any of these Qanons?

If so are they crazy....threatening....or violent......for that matter, does anyone reading this know any antifa movement people?......

 

60 minutes.......whole lot of wind about nothing.....just meant to further divide the country....     JMO.    CL

 

 

 

I think anybody who believes or implies March 4th will bring about change to the election results is in some way or form connected to QAnon....Q....or Anon.  That coincidence alone implies complicity to some folks who claim to simply be open minded.  As always, just my opinion.

 

GO RV, then BV

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HuffPost

Michael Flynn’s Wild Ride Into The Heart Of QAnon

 
Nick Robins-Early
·Senior World News Reporter, HuffPost
Sun, February 21, 2021, 8:00 AM
 
 
(Photo: Illustration: Rebecca Zisser/HuffPost; Photo: Getty)
 
(Photo: Illustration: Rebecca Zisser/HuffPost; Photo: Getty)

Michael Flynn stood in front of a cheering crowd of QAnon believers, far-right extremists and other Trump supporters, and told them he was absolutely certain Donald Trump would remain the president. It was Dec. 12 and Trump had already lost the election, but at a “Stop the Steal” rally in Washington, D.C., Flynn proclaimed “a spiritual battle for the heart and soul of this country” that would end with Trump’s victory.

As three of his siblings applauded behind him, Flynn vowed that the election was not over and that “courts aren’t gonna decide who the next president of the United States is gonna be.” Flynn said Trump trusted his supporters to “not allow what’s happening to happen in our country” and called on them to “fight back” against an alleged plot involving groundless conspiracy theories of election fraud and rigged voting machines.

“Why not look inside these machines? Why? Why not? What are they afraid of? What are they hiding from? They are hiding from something!” Flynn told the crowd.

 

The December event foreshadowed Trump’s Jan. 6 rally, which led to a far-right mob storming the U.S. Capitol, and many of the same groups were involved, including dark-money nonprofit Women for America First. Violence also followed the first event, with Proud Boys gang members involved in brawls and stabbings that resulted in 33 arrests. The December rally was part of a string of speeches and media appearances, leading up to the January insurrection, in which Flynn lent his voice to the authoritarian movement to keep Trump in office.

Flynn hasn’t faced serious scrutiny for his role in stoking the flames that led to the Capitol riot. Unlike Trump or GOP Sens. Ted Cruz (Texas) and Josh Hawley (Missouri), Flynn’s efforts to incite took place out of the broader public view, on obscure QAnon podcasts or smaller conservative media outlets that make Fox News look like “60 Minutes.” These appearances were the culmination of a yearslong descent into a realm of conspiracy theorists and the far-right, one where he is a star.

Michael Flynn speaks to a crowd of Trump supporters during a protest against the outcome of the presidential election outside the Supreme Court on Dec. 12, 2020. (Photo: Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)
 
Michael Flynn speaks to a crowd of Trump supporters during a protest against the outcome of the presidential election outside the Supreme Court on Dec. 12, 2020. (Photo: Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)

In early 2017, Flynn was one of the most powerful men in the world. After decades in military intelligence, the former three-star lieutenant general had landed the role of Trump’s national security adviser. Four years later, he would appear on conspiracy theorist podcasts with hosts who claim vaccines contain Communist microchips and who interview men that say they’ve had sex with space aliens. In that world, Flynn is something between a saint and a folk hero ― a key figure in the QAnon movement, which believes a secret cabal of international pedophiles controls the country and an anonymous insider known as “Q” is sending out secret instructions to bring the cabal down.

QAnon believers and far-right militias came to believe that Flynn would help them take control. Days after the Dec. 12 rally, the Three Percenters militia threatened action to overturn the election results. “We are ready to enter into battle with General Flynn leading the charge,” one of the largest Three Percenters groups said in a statement on Dec. 16. Multiple Three Percenters would later be charged in connection with the Capitol riot, including a 48-year-old man who allegedly threatened to kill his family if they contacted law enforcement.

Even as Flynn became a symbolic military leader for these extremists, he retained close ties to the president. After his brief stint as national security adviser ended in disgrace, Trump reportedly floated naming him chief of staff or FBI director and hosted him in the Oval Office.

And when Trump pardoned Flynn late last year, he set the former general loose to indulge in QAnon fanfare and promote the same falsehoods that insurrectionists took to the Capitol building.

Descent Into QAnon

Flynn lasted only three weeks as national security adviser before he was forced to resign over his communications with Russia’s ambassador, and less than a year later he pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI during special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference.

After initially agreeing to help prosecutors, Flynn in December 2018 hired Sidney Powell, soon to be infamous nationwide for her wild election theories, to handle his case. His brother Joseph Flynn and sister Barbara Redgate also began making inroads on Flynn’s behalf into QAnon communities and other extremist spaces, apparently as a fundraising gambit. Court records show that as of 2019 Flynn owed around $4.6 million in unpaid legal fees.

His siblings set up a legal defense fund for him in 2017 that actively courted far-right conspiracists. A 2018 benefit for the fund featured speakers including a prominent anti-vaccine activist-turned-QAnon influencer and the founder of the anti-government Oath Keepers militia.

When Flynn emerged with Powell by his side, the two began claiming that he was the victim of injustice and “deep state” plots. Flynn’s new martyr status helped gain him the affection of QAnon believers, whom he increasingly encouraged.

“I wonder to this day whether it is cynical fundraising, trying to crowdsource his legal bill, or how much of this QAnon stuff he actually believes,” said Jared Holt, a resident fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab.

Flynn leaves the federal courthouse in Washington on June 24, 2019, followed by his lawyer Sidney Powell. She would become famous for her wild election theories. (Photo: Manuel Balce Ceneta/AP)
 
Flynn leaves the federal courthouse in Washington on June 24, 2019, followed by his lawyer Sidney Powell. She would become famous for her wild election theories. (Photo: Manuel Balce Ceneta/AP)

On the Fourth of July last year, Flynn posted video of himself performing an apparent “oath” to QAnon and using one of its most notorious slogans. “Where we go one, we go all,” he said, standing in front of a backyard fire pit with five others who repeated after him.

Trump pardoned Flynn on Nov. 25, by which time Flynn was a full-fledged MAGA star and a central part of QAnon’s apocalyptic myth-making.

“As much as a folk hero that he is to the pro-Trump movement, he’s like a deity to QAnon believers. Mike Flynn is apparently clued in to the secret plan to save the world,” Holt said.

QAnon supporters dubbed themselves “Digital Soldiers” after a line in one of his speeches, they held signs proclaiming his innocence at rallies, and a QAnon influencer released an album “inspired by General Mike Flynn” with songs like “ThanQ for the Pain.” Each development in his legal troubles also became part of the movement’s constantly shifting lore, more moves in the chess game that believers saw Trump and Flynn secretly playing.

Trump’s pardon freed Flynn to capitalize on his celebrity status among extremists, including selling QAnon merchandise and launching a Digital Soldiers media company. Following the pardon, Flynn immediately went on a victory lap of pro-Trump and QAnon podcasts to laud their efforts to clear him of the charges he’d pleaded guilty to and to share their conspiratorial beliefs.

“Once he gets his pardon, it’s like he’s been unleashed and he runs straight toward these conspiracy theory outlets,” Holt said. “It almost seems like he’s trying to make himself some sort of media figure, he’s trying to fulfill this role that all these conspiracy theorists think he will fulfill.”

As much as a folk hero that he is to the pro-Trump movement, he’s like a deity to QAnon believers. Mike Flynn is apparently clued in to the secret plan to save the world.Jared Holt, a resident fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab

Flynn’s first post-pardon interview was with the fringe online show Worldview Weekend, where he spread baseless claims of election fraud and insisted that Trump actually won “by a massive landslide and he’ll be inaugurated this January.” Describing the election as “probably the greatest fraud our country has experienced in our history,” Flynn pushed the narrative that the fate of the United States rested on Trump’s ultimate victory.

“This is the time in our history where if we don’t get this right, this country is done. It will be over as we know it,” Flynn told WVW founder Brannon Howse, a far-right conspiracist who recently directed MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell’s election conspiracy infomercial and last year put out an eight-hour-plus film claiming that an Islamist-Marxist plot was underway to overthrow American democracy.

Flynn’s appearance on Howse’s show was followed by a procession of guest spots that highlighted the depth of the former national security adviser’s connection to attempts to overturn the presidential election.

“The American patriots out there are gonna have to stay awake and stay up and push on their system, our system, to correct itself,” Flynn said during a Dec. 1 appearance on the QAnon-affiliated podcast “Bards of War.” Once again he stated without evidence that Trump had easily won the election and he repeated debunked conspiracy theories.

“I understand there’s more dead voters in Pennsylvania than soldiers buried on the hallowed grounds in Gettysburg,” Flynn told “Bards of War” host Scott Kesterson, a QAnon influencer who pleaded guilty in 2017 to stealing thousands of dollars donated to a woman dying of cancer and her family.

“I really appreciate your show and your message,” Flynn told Kesterson, who has claimed that Bill Gates, China and Google are using COVID-19 to create a mass vaccination program with the intent of inserting a microchip in everyone in the world. (In the same episode that Kesterson promoted that conspiracy, he also read out a letter that Flynn had personally addressed to him.)

Flynn received a hero’s welcome in his media appearances, as fawning hosts congratulated him on his pardon and treated him as a kind of prophet. Some QAnon influencers specifically thanked him for lending legitimacy to their cause.

“I was so honored when you followed me [on Twitter]. ... That gave me the power. You following me,” a host of the “Matrixxx Groove” podcast told Flynn. “I have been so inspired by you, sir.”

Resisting The Election

During Flynn’s frenzied tour of far-right media, one Dec. 17 interview jumped the tracks into the mainstream conversation.

On Newsmax, Flynn suggested that Trump could seize voting machines and declare martial law in states he lost, claiming that the president “could take military capabilities and he could place them in those states and basically rerun elections.” Flynn also repeatedly warned that a historic injustice was underway that must be stopped, a crisis narrative shared by many of the Jan. 6 insurrectionists.

“We cannot allow this election and the integrity of our election to go the way it is,” Flynn said.

Flynn departs the Dec. 12, 2020, protest where he said Trump supporters trying to flip the election results were fighting “a spiritual battle for the heart and soul of this country.” (Photo: Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)
 
Flynn departs the Dec. 12, 2020, protest where he said Trump supporters trying to flip the election results were fighting “a spiritual battle for the heart and soul of this country.” (Photo: Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)

His suggestion of martial law drew immediate backlash, including from top military officials. Then-Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Army Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville issued a joint statement a day after Flynn’s Newsmax appearance to rebut his authoritarian ideas.

“There is no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of an American election,” McCarthy and McConville said.

Two days after that interview, Flynn was sitting in the Oval Office.

Flynn, along with Sidney Powell, former Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne and former Trump administration official Emily Newman, reportedly tried to convince Trump that he could still win and to grant them top-secret national security clearances. The meeting became heated as White House staff and legal counsel faced off against the conspiracists, and Flynn accused senior adviser Eric Herschmann of giving up on Trump.

“You’re quitting! You’re a quitter! You’re not fighting!” Flynn yelled at Herschmann, according to Axios.

Despite Flynn demanding that “we need fighters” and his group insisting that the election could still be overturned, they left empty-handed. But Flynn’s rally circuit didn’t stop. He popped up in the nation’s capital again the day before the riot, on Jan. 5, proclaiming that “Washington, D.C., has forgotten what it means to be an American patriot.” Flynn thanked his “Digital Soldiers” during the speech and warned Congress that the crowd would be there on Jan. 6 to fight the certification of election results.

“We want you to know that we will not stand for a lie. We will not stand for a lie!” Flynn said to cheers.

After The Riot

Flynn has kept a low profile since the siege at the Capitol, in part because Twitter removed him, his sister and thousands of other QAnon-affiliated accounts after the riot. (Joseph Flynn, who has appeared on a QAnon-affiliated podcast at least nine times in the past year alone, retained his account with its hundreds of thousands of followers. He recently responded “no idea crazy” when another user asked why he hadn’t been suspended.)

The riot and President Joe Biden’s subsequent inauguration have also thrown QAnon into disarray. Many QAnon supporters watched in disbelief as Biden peacefully took the oath of office while Trump and Flynn did not lead a military roundup of the Obamas, Clintons and Bidens that ended with mass executions. Some lost faith entirely, while on platforms such as Telegram, others tried to concoct new myths to sustain their alternate reality.

“Q was right about a lot of things, but there’s no one coming to fix it. Trump was outmatched,” one user wrote on a popular QAnon Telegram channel.

Other users had other theories. “Trump is not in charge FLYNN is,” one wrote.

Flynn finally emerged in early February, appearing on “The Right Side with Doug Billings” podcast. Flynn sounded dejected, claiming that Trump had been betrayed and that the Republican Party had “stabbed him right in the heart.” He urged people to pray and become involved in local politics, and he tried to distance himself from QAnon theories. When Billings asked if Trump had invoked the Insurrection Act ― in order to use the military to seize control of the country ― Flynn responded that was “nonsense.”

“There’s no plan. There’s so many people out there asking, ‘Is the plan happening?’” Flynn said. “We have what we have, and we have to accept the situation as it is.

I was devastated by Gen. Flynn’s comments until he told you, Doug, to hold onto that bottle of wine. That gave me hope again.A social media commenter speaking about Flynn's remarks after Inauguration Day

But he didn’t outright disavow QAnon or admit that Biden had legitimately won the election. When Billings asked if he owed a neighbor a bottle of wine for losing a bet that Trump would be victorious, Flynn told him otherwise.

“I’d say hold onto that bottle of wine. I would not concede that bottle of wine,” Flynn said.

If the former general sounded like he may have been joking, that wasn’t how QAnon supporters heard it. True believers, already primed to see the world in code, began to fixate on Flynn’s wine comment as proof that he was speaking to them, urging them to keep going.

“I was devastated by Gen. Flynn’s comments until he told you, Doug, to hold onto that bottle of wine. That gave me hope again,” one social media commenter said.

“I think it’s another chess move,” someone else posted.

Two days later, Billings had conspiracy theorist Simon Parkes on his show to explain that Flynn wasn’t rejecting QAnon at all but instead had to conceal his real beliefs. Parkes, who openly claims that his “real mother” was a 9-foot-tall green space alien and that he fathered a child with an extraterrestrial he calls “the Cat Queen,” said that Flynn had subtly signaled to QAnon followers that everything was going to plan.

“I was very impressed with your bottle of wine,” Parkes said. “That was a fantastic way for him to give us information without breaking any rules or regulations.”

 

https://news.yahoo.com/michael-flynn-qanon-trump-capitol-riot-130000286.html

 

GO RV, then BV

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

I think anybody who believes or implies March 4th will bring about change to the election results is in some way or form connected to QAnon....Q....or Anon.  That coincidence alone implies complicity to some folks who claim to simply be open minded.  As always, just my opinion.

 

GO RV, then BV

 

Anyone can have an opinion of the results of the 2020 election.....and that doesn't imply any connection to any political group....

 

I have seen enough factual evidence to believe that the 2020 election was rigged....I posted some on that earlier today......

 

This evidence is finally working it's way up through the courts....and will be acted upon quickly....

 

The SC will make a decision this week on hearing the Pennsylvania case on the constitutionality of the Govenors and SOS's altering the voting rules for their State, circumventing the State Legislature there.....

 

This is a no brainer.....not conspiracy or Qanon.....just common sense....

 

If they hear it......and I believe they will.....it should be fast tracked.....if Pennsylvania is judged to have broken their own election laws......that election will be voided......

 

This would set a presidance for at least 5 other States....

 

Early March is possible time frame for this to occur....

 

Then we get the do over....

 

Do you understand this thought process is not a Q conspiracy......this is going through the legal system right now.....     CL

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

 

Anyone can have an opinion of the results of the 2020 election.....and that doesn't imply any connection to any political group....

 

I have seen enough factual evidence to believe that the 2020 election was rigged....I posted some on that earlier today......

 

This evidence is finally working it's way up through the courts....and will be acted upon quickly....

 

The SC will make a decision this week on hearing the Pennsylvania case on the constitutionality of the Govenors and SOS's altering the voting rules for their State, circumventing the State Legislature there.....

 

This is a no brainer.....not conspiracy or Qanon.....just common sense....

 

If they hear it......and I believe they will.....it should be fast tracked.....if Pennsylvania is judged to have broken their own election laws......that election will be voided......

 

This would set a presidance for at least 5 other States....

 

Early March is possible time frame for this to occur....

 

Then we get the do over....

 

Do you understand this thought process is not a Q conspiracy......this is going through the legal system right now.....     CL

 

 

 

 

I just posted the SCOTUS shunning of a Pennsylvania lawsuit....might not be the same one you're talking about....It's in the Feb 19th thread.

 

GO RV, then BV

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HuffPost

Tucker Carlson Suggests QAnon Doesn't Exist Because He Can't Find Its Website

 
 
Josephine Harvey
·Reporter, HuffPost
Tue, February 23, 2021, 11:35 PM
 
 

Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who last month tacitly defended supporters of QAnon, declared Tuesday that there’s no evidence the conspiracy theory actually exists and suggested coverage of its damaging influence is actually part of a left-wing disinformation campaign.

“We spent all day trying to locate the famous QAnon, which, in the end, we learned is not even a website,” Carlson said. “If it’s out there, we could not find it.”

That comment followed a tirade against CNN and other media organizations for coverage exploring the radicalization of Americans via disinformation and right-wing conspiracy theories such as the ones spun by the mysterious “Q.”

“Disinformation networks?” Carlson said, mocking other media outlets. “That doesn’t sound like a misleading social media post, it sounds like a terror cell. And it sounds that way on purpose. The thing about disinformation that they’re telling us is that’s it’s not simply harmful to you personally .... Disinformation hurts everyone.”

 

Supporters of QAnon, white nationalists and other far-right extremists were among the throng of Donald Trump supporters who attacked the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, leaving five people, including a police officer, dead. They staged the insurrection after being fed a months-long torrent of disinformation about the presidential election being stolen from Trump. They threatened to harm members of Congress and the vice president for standing in Trump’s way.

Followers of the QAnon conspiracy theory, which often congregate on right-wing online networks such as Gab or Telegram, were classified as a domestic terrorism threat by the FBI and have been linked to kidnappings, murder and violence.

If he couldn’t immediately find QAnon’s “website” or find false information from other right-wing communities and personalities, Carlson argued, it must mean it was all fabricated by the left.

“We checked [Georgia Republican Rep.] Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Twitter feed because we have heard she traffics in disinformation, CNN told us, but nothing there. Next, we called our many friends in the tight-knit intel community. Could Vladimir Putin be putting this stuff out there? The Proud Boys? Alex Jones?” Carlson said.

“Who is lying to America in ways that are certain to make us hate each other and certain to destroy our core institutions?” he continued.

“Well, none of the above, actually. It wasn’t Marjorie Taylor Greene. It was cable news. It was politicians talking on TV. They’re the ones spreading disinformation to Americans. Maybe they are from QAnon.”

The Fox News host was slammed online after clips of his segment circulated Tuesday. His critics included Rep. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, an anti-Trump Republican, who implored him to “quit lying, accept reality and use your energy to make us a better country.”

 

Carlson and many of his colleagues at Fox News and Fox Business have been key players in the amplification, production and spread of disinformation relating to the election, Trump and other subjects. Fox Corp is being sued by voting systems company Smartmatic for $2.7 billion, which is accusing the media giant’s election coverage of being false and defamatory.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/tucker-carlson-qanon-website-043556322.html

 

GO RV, then BV

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The Conversation

Can QAnon survive another 'Great Disappointment' on March 4? History suggests it might

 
 
Richard Amesbury, Professor of Religious Studies and of Philosophy and Director of the School of Historical, Philosophical and Religious Studies, Arizona State University
Tue, March 2, 2021, 8:22 AM
 
 
<span class="caption">The big question looming over QAnon: What happens after March 4?</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="link rapid-noclick-resp" href="https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/david-reinert-holds-a-large-q-sign-while-waiting-in-line-on-news-photo/1009769900?adppopup=true" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank" data-ylk="slk:Rick Loomis/Getty Images">Rick Loomis/Getty Images</a></span>
 
The big question looming over QAnon: What happens after March 4? Rick Loomis/Getty Images

Thursday could be a big day. On March 4, Donald Trump will be triumphantly returned to power to help save the world from a shadowy syndicate of Satan-worshipping pedophiles – or at least that is what a small fraction of American citizens believe.

But before you circle the date and dust off the MAGA hats, a note of caution: We have been here before. Adherents of the same conspiracy theory, QAnon, had previously marked Jan. 20, the day of Joe Biden’s inauguration, as the big day. As Biden ascended the steps of the Capitol to take the presidential oath of office, tens of thousands of adherents of QAnon were eagerly awaiting the imminent arrest and execution of Democratic politicians in a “storm” that would upend the social and political order. It didn’t happen.

In the aftermath of this disappointment, some disillusioned QAnon followers left the fold. But as evidenced by the new date of March 4 – chosen because it was the day for presidential inaugurations until the 20th Amendment was adopted in 1933 – some hardliners claimed they had simply gotten the date wrong. When – or if – that date too passes without incident, a new date may emerge.

It might be thought that enough failed predictions would eventually discredit a prophet. But as a philosopher of religion, I know history suggests a more complicated set of possibilities. Apocalyptic movements rarely simply dissolve when prophecies are seen to fail. Indeed, such crises have in the past presented believers with fertile opportunities to reinterpret prophecies. They have even strengthened movements, giving rise to new theories that attempt to explain the shortcomings of earlier ones.

 

The Millerites

This dynamic played out nearly 180 years ago with the Millerites, members of a 19th-century evangelical Christian movement who were part of an earlier “Great Awakening” in U.S. religious history.

A Baptist preacher, William Miller drew on biblical texts and numerology to predict the imminent second coming of Christ. Although Miller did not initially claim to know the exact date, he and his followers offered various predictions. As each passed without incident, the Millerites redid the Biblical math to propose new dates, until finally the movement settled on Oct. 22, 1844.

As the expected second advent drew near, many Millerites gave away their possessions in anticipation of Christ’s return.

A cartoon of a Millerite awaiting in a homemade bunker.
 
A caricature of a Millerite awaiting the end of the world. Library of Congress

When Oct. 22 came and went without incident, the Millerites were left to reconstruct a worldview that acknowledged what came to be called the “Great Disappointment.”

Miller’s followers concluded not that the Scriptures and numerology on which they had based their predictions were false, but simply that they had misunderstood their meaning. In one view, what the predictions foretold were not earthly events, but heavenly ones.

Millerism did not collapse; rather, elements of it were central to the establishment of Seventh Day Adventism, a rapidly growing Protestant denomination that continues to look forward to Christ’s return.

Crisis point

Looking at how the Millerites dealt with their Great Disappointment gives an insight into how believers navigate what the philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre calls “epistemological crises.” These are moments when the way someone understands the world is thrown into question by events that don’t fit expectations.

Epistemological crises are not unique to religion. Anyone who has experienced heartbreak in a relationship, or felt the rug pulled out from under them when unexpectedly fired by an employer, knows that they are a fact of life.

Such a crisis undercuts a person’s ability to tell the kind of story about themselves that gives order and meaning to life. Left unresolved, it threatens one’s understanding of oneself and others.

Yet, such crises don’t always prove insurmountable. MacIntyre writes, “When an epistemological crisis is resolved, it is by the construction of a new narrative, which enables the agent to understand both how he or she could intelligibly have held his or her original beliefs and how he or she could have been so drastically misled by them.”

Sometimes the new understanding repudiates the old. Often, however, the new narrative is not a radical departure from the old one, but an improvised and more sophisticated version of it – one that incorporates what had earlier seemed like outlying data points. The Millerites, for example, survived their Great Disappointment by reaffirming their belief that God is at work in ways that humans cannot always fully anticipate.

Writing in the mid-20th century, the philosopher Antony Flew suggested that over time, religious beliefs “die the death of a thousand qualifications.” That is, they are modified beyond recognition, to the point of meaninglessness.

But scholars of religion have documented a pattern in which, rather than dying, fringe beliefs evolve, becoming more socially acceptable. As they are gradually disentangled from politics, they come to be thought of as more truly “religious.”

Making sense of disappointment

Whether or not movements like Millerism can move past great disappointments depends in part on the interpretive tools available within the group and the ingenuity of adherents in explaining away their own unfulfilled expectations.

It is anyone’s guess whether QAnon will survive its current epistemological crisis. And if it does, there is no guarantee that it will emerge chastened.

Some commentators have predicted that it will return even more dangerous than before, evolving into increasingly virulent strains. It may well be subsumed within a larger conspiracy theory that seeks to explain the current disappointment in the context of an even more elaborate narrative.

Perhaps one day QAnon will take its place within the domesticated pantheon of American civil religion as another benign and depoliticized “faith.” Then again, it may simply sputter out, dying the death of a thousand qualifications.

But if history is any guide, whether QAnon survives its Great Disappointment will depend on its adherents’ ability to successfully explain to themselves how they could have been so drastically misled.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/qanon-survive-another-great-disappointment-132243275.html

 

GO RV, then BV

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19 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:
The Conversation

Can QAnon survive another 'Great Disappointment' on March 4? History suggests it might

 
 
Richard Amesbury, Professor of Religious Studies and of Philosophy and Director of the School of Historical, Philosophical and Religious Studies, Arizona State University
Tue, March 2, 2021, 8:22 AM
 
 
<span class="caption">The big question looming over QAnon: What happens after March 4?</span> <span class="attribution"><a class="link rapid-noclick-resp" href="https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/david-reinert-holds-a-large-q-sign-while-waiting-in-line-on-news-photo/1009769900?adppopup=true" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank" data-ylk="slk:Rick Loomis/Getty Images">Rick Loomis/Getty Images</a></span>
 
The big question looming over QAnon: What happens after March 4? Rick Loomis/Getty Images

Thursday could be a big day. On March 4, Donald Trump will be triumphantly returned to power to help save the world from a shadowy syndicate of Satan-worshipping pedophiles – or at least that is what a small fraction of American citizens believe.

But before you circle the date and dust off the MAGA hats, a note of caution: We have been here before. Adherents of the same conspiracy theory, QAnon, had previously marked Jan. 20, the day of Joe Biden’s inauguration, as the big day. As Biden ascended the steps of the Capitol to take the presidential oath of office, tens of thousands of adherents of QAnon were eagerly awaiting the imminent arrest and execution of Democratic politicians in a “storm” that would upend the social and political order. It didn’t happen.

In the aftermath of this disappointment, some disillusioned QAnon followers left the fold. But as evidenced by the new date of March 4 – chosen because it was the day for presidential inaugurations until the 20th Amendment was adopted in 1933 – some hardliners claimed they had simply gotten the date wrong. When – or if – that date too passes without incident, a new date may emerge.

It might be thought that enough failed predictions would eventually discredit a prophet. But as a philosopher of religion, I know history suggests a more complicated set of possibilities. Apocalyptic movements rarely simply dissolve when prophecies are seen to fail. Indeed, such crises have in the past presented believers with fertile opportunities to reinterpret prophecies. They have even strengthened movements, giving rise to new theories that attempt to explain the shortcomings of earlier ones.

 

The Millerites

This dynamic played out nearly 180 years ago with the Millerites, members of a 19th-century evangelical Christian movement who were part of an earlier “Great Awakening” in U.S. religious history.

A Baptist preacher, William Miller drew on biblical texts and numerology to predict the imminent second coming of Christ. Although Miller did not initially claim to know the exact date, he and his followers offered various predictions. As each passed without incident, the Millerites redid the Biblical math to propose new dates, until finally the movement settled on Oct. 22, 1844.

As the expected second advent drew near, many Millerites gave away their possessions in anticipation of Christ’s return.

A cartoon of a Millerite awaiting in a homemade bunker.
 
A caricature of a Millerite awaiting the end of the world. Library of Congress

When Oct. 22 came and went without incident, the Millerites were left to reconstruct a worldview that acknowledged what came to be called the “Great Disappointment.”

Miller’s followers concluded not that the Scriptures and numerology on which they had based their predictions were false, but simply that they had misunderstood their meaning. In one view, what the predictions foretold were not earthly events, but heavenly ones.

Millerism did not collapse; rather, elements of it were central to the establishment of Seventh Day Adventism, a rapidly growing Protestant denomination that continues to look forward to Christ’s return.

Crisis point

Looking at how the Millerites dealt with their Great Disappointment gives an insight into how believers navigate what the philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre calls “epistemological crises.” These are moments when the way someone understands the world is thrown into question by events that don’t fit expectations.

Epistemological crises are not unique to religion. Anyone who has experienced heartbreak in a relationship, or felt the rug pulled out from under them when unexpectedly fired by an employer, knows that they are a fact of life.

Such a crisis undercuts a person’s ability to tell the kind of story about themselves that gives order and meaning to life. Left unresolved, it threatens one’s understanding of oneself and others.

Yet, such crises don’t always prove insurmountable. MacIntyre writes, “When an epistemological crisis is resolved, it is by the construction of a new narrative, which enables the agent to understand both how he or she could intelligibly have held his or her original beliefs and how he or she could have been so drastically misled by them.”

Sometimes the new understanding repudiates the old. Often, however, the new narrative is not a radical departure from the old one, but an improvised and more sophisticated version of it – one that incorporates what had earlier seemed like outlying data points. The Millerites, for example, survived their Great Disappointment by reaffirming their belief that God is at work in ways that humans cannot always fully anticipate.

Writing in the mid-20th century, the philosopher Antony Flew suggested that over time, religious beliefs “die the death of a thousand qualifications.” That is, they are modified beyond recognition, to the point of meaninglessness.

But scholars of religion have documented a pattern in which, rather than dying, fringe beliefs evolve, becoming more socially acceptable. As they are gradually disentangled from politics, they come to be thought of as more truly “religious.”

Making sense of disappointment

Whether or not movements like Millerism can move past great disappointments depends in part on the interpretive tools available within the group and the ingenuity of adherents in explaining away their own unfulfilled expectations.

It is anyone’s guess whether QAnon will survive its current epistemological crisis. And if it does, there is no guarantee that it will emerge chastened.

Some commentators have predicted that it will return even more dangerous than before, evolving into increasingly virulent strains. It may well be subsumed within a larger conspiracy theory that seeks to explain the current disappointment in the context of an even more elaborate narrative.

Perhaps one day QAnon will take its place within the domesticated pantheon of American civil religion as another benign and depoliticized “faith.” Then again, it may simply sputter out, dying the death of a thousand qualifications.

But if history is any guide, whether QAnon survives its Great Disappointment will depend on its adherents’ ability to successfully explain to themselves how they could have been so drastically misled.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/qanon-survive-another-great-disappointment-132243275.html

 

GO RV, then BV

They will just move on to another date with some crazy reason. Reminds me of some of the dinar rumors throughout the years here! Remember the the delarue cash counting machines being installed at all the major banks? That’s my all time favorite!

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15 minutes ago, caddieman said:

They will just move on to another date with some crazy reason. Reminds me of some of the dinar rumors throughout the years here! Remember the the delarue cash counting machines being installed at all the major banks? That’s my all time favorite!

 

Perhaps Delarue is simply French for.......Dominion.  :lol:

 

GO RV, then BV

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I have some independent thoughts here. I will go into much more detail later on in a new thread titled,  "SENTINEL"   #the event horizon 

 

Don't know about the 4th but I will bet everything I own that by the end of the year with the ensuing worldwide financial catastrophe 90% of the world's population will be screaming for Trump to take over. 

 

The damage has been done. The death throes of the Fiat Ponzi scheme are just beginning. And guess who allowed the Democratic Communist party to steal the election, leaving them at the Helm when it all falls apart? 

 

Trump warned Biden, "Be careful what you wish for ".

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Associated Press

Police uncover ‘possible plot’ by militia to breach Capitol

526e0e934f141d1aa9fabdb7d2139746
 
FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021, file photo, rioters storm the Capitol, in Washington. Capitol Police say they have intelligence showing a “possible plot” by a militia group to breach the U.S. Capitol on Thursday, nearly two months after a mob of supporters of then-President Donald Trump stormed the iconic building to try to stop Congress from certifying now-President Joe Biden's victory. The threat appears to be connected to a far-right conspiracy theory, mainly promoted by supporters of QAnon, that Trump will rise again to power on March 4. That was the original presidential inauguration day until 1933, when it was moved to Jan. 20. (AP Photo/John Minchillo, File) More
MICHAEL BALSAMO
Wed, March 3, 2021, 11:17 AM
 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Capitol Police say they have uncovered intelligence of a “possible plot” by a militia group to breach the U.S. Capitol on Thursday, nearly two months after a mob of supporters of then-President Donald Trump stormed the iconic building to try to stop Congress from certifying now-President Joe Biden's victory.

The threat appears to be connected to a far-right conspiracy theory, mainly promoted by supporters of QAnon, that Trump will rise again to power on March 4. That was the original presidential inauguration day until 1933, when it was moved to Jan. 20.

The announcement comes as the Capitol police and other law enforcement agencies are taking heat from Congress in contentious hearings this week on their handling of the Jan. 6 riot. Police were ill prepared for the mass of Trump supporters in tactical gear, some armed, and it took hours for National Guard reinforcements to come. By then, rioters had broken and smashed their way into the building and roamed the halls for hours, stalling Congress' certification effort temporarily and sending lawmakers into hiding.

 

“The United States Capitol Police Department is aware of and prepared for any potential threats towards members of Congress or towards the Capitol complex,” the agency said in a statement. “We have obtained intelligence that shows a possible plot to breach the Capitol by an identified militia group on Thursday, March 4.” Police did not identify the militia group in the statement.

An advisory sent earlier this week to members of Congress by Timothy Blodgett, the acting House sergeant-at-arms, said that the Capitol Police had “no indication that groups will travel to Washington D.C. to protest or commit acts of violence.”

But that advisory was updated in a note to lawmakers Wednesday morning. Blodgett wrote that the Capitol Police had received “new and concerning information and intelligence indicating additional interest in the Capitol for the dates of March 4th – 6th by a militia group.”

In her testimony to the House panel, acting Capitol Police Chief Yogananda Pittman said her investigators had collected “some concerning intelligence,” but declined to provide any details publicly, saying that it was “law enforcement sensitive” and that she would provide a private briefing for the subcommittee members.

There has been a noticeable decline in online activity on some social media platforms surrounding efforts on March 4, and there was already considerably less online chatter than during the lead-up to Jan. 6, a day that Trump repeatedly had promoted for a his rally and encouraged thousands to come to the nation's capital.

There's also a very large fence in place around the U.S. Capitol that blocks off all avenues of entry including on the streets around the building, which was put in place after Jan. 6.

Also, thousands of accounts that promoted the Jan. 6 event that led to a violent storming of the U.S. Capitol have since been suspended by major tech companies like Facebook and Twitter, making it far more difficult for QAnon and far-right groups to organize a repeat of the mass gathering on Thursday.

Twitter banned more than 70,000 accounts after the riots, while Facebook and Instagram removed posts mentioning “stop the steal,” a pro-Trump rallying cry used to mobilize his supporters in January. And the conservative social media platform Parler, which many of Trump’s supporters joined to promote false election fraud conspiracy theories and encourage friends to “storm” the Capitol on Jan. 6, was booted off the internet following the siege.

Capitol Police say that they have stepped up security around the Capitol complex since January's insurrection, adding physical security measures such as the fencing topped with razor wire around the Capitol and members of the National Guard who remain at the complex. The statement said the agency was “taking the intelligence seriously” but provided no other specific details on the threat.

Rep. Adriano Espaillat, D-N.Y., said he was “very concerned” about potential threats Thursday and wasn’t sure whether the Capitol Police were adequately prepared to respond.

“I believe that there should be additional resources assigned to their efforts to sweep for explosives, for example,” he said. “And I don’t know to what degree that’s being done right now.”

Lawmakers were expected to be briefed later Wednesday by Capitol Police leadership in a closed session

So far, about 300 people have been charged with federal crimes for their roles in the riot. Five people, including a Capitol Police officer, died.

Since his defeat, Trump has been promoting lies that the election was stolen from him through mass voter fraud, even though such claims have been rejected by judges, Republican state officials and Trump’s own administration. He was impeached by the House after the Jan. 6 riot on a c harge of incitement of insurrection but was acquitted by the Senate.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/police-uncover-possible-plot-militia-161706087.html

 

GO RV, then BV

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1 hour ago, Shabibilicious said:
Associated Press

Police uncover ‘possible plot’ by militia to breach Capitol

526e0e934f141d1aa9fabdb7d2139746
 
FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021, file photo, rioters storm the Capitol, in Washington. Capitol Police say they have intelligence showing a “possible plot” by a militia group to breach the U.S. Capitol on Thursday, nearly two months after a mob of supporters of then-President Donald Trump stormed the iconic building to try to stop Congress from certifying now-President Joe Biden's victory. The threat appears to be connected to a far-right conspiracy theory, mainly promoted by supporters of QAnon, that Trump will rise again to power on March 4. That was the original presidential inauguration day until 1933, when it was moved to Jan. 20. (AP Photo/John Minchillo, File) More
MICHAEL BALSAMO
Wed, March 3, 2021, 11:17 AM
 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Capitol Police say they have uncovered intelligence of a “possible plot” by a militia group to breach the U.S. Capitol on Thursday, nearly two months after a mob of supporters of then-President Donald Trump stormed the iconic building to try to stop Congress from certifying now-President Joe Biden's victory.

The threat appears to be connected to a far-right conspiracy theory, mainly promoted by supporters of QAnon, that Trump will rise again to power on March 4. That was the original presidential inauguration day until 1933, when it was moved to Jan. 20.

The announcement comes as the Capitol police and other law enforcement agencies are taking heat from Congress in contentious hearings this week on their handling of the Jan. 6 riot. Police were ill prepared for the mass of Trump supporters in tactical gear, some armed, and it took hours for National Guard reinforcements to come. By then, rioters had broken and smashed their way into the building and roamed the halls for hours, stalling Congress' certification effort temporarily and sending lawmakers into hiding.

 

“The United States Capitol Police Department is aware of and prepared for any potential threats towards members of Congress or towards the Capitol complex,” the agency said in a statement. “We have obtained intelligence that shows a possible plot to breach the Capitol by an identified militia group on Thursday, March 4.” Police did not identify the militia group in the statement.

An advisory sent earlier this week to members of Congress by Timothy Blodgett, the acting House sergeant-at-arms, said that the Capitol Police had “no indication that groups will travel to Washington D.C. to protest or commit acts of violence.”

But that advisory was updated in a note to lawmakers Wednesday morning. Blodgett wrote that the Capitol Police had received “new and concerning information and intelligence indicating additional interest in the Capitol for the dates of March 4th – 6th by a militia group.”

In her testimony to the House panel, acting Capitol Police Chief Yogananda Pittman said her investigators had collected “some concerning intelligence,” but declined to provide any details publicly, saying that it was “law enforcement sensitive” and that she would provide a private briefing for the subcommittee members.

There has been a noticeable decline in online activity on some social media platforms surrounding efforts on March 4, and there was already considerably less online chatter than during the lead-up to Jan. 6, a day that Trump repeatedly had promoted for a his rally and encouraged thousands to come to the nation's capital.

There's also a very large fence in place around the U.S. Capitol that blocks off all avenues of entry including on the streets around the building, which was put in place after Jan. 6.

Also, thousands of accounts that promoted the Jan. 6 event that led to a violent storming of the U.S. Capitol have since been suspended by major tech companies like Facebook and Twitter, making it far more difficult for QAnon and far-right groups to organize a repeat of the mass gathering on Thursday.

Twitter banned more than 70,000 accounts after the riots, while Facebook and Instagram removed posts mentioning “stop the steal,” a pro-Trump rallying cry used to mobilize his supporters in January. And the conservative social media platform Parler, which many of Trump’s supporters joined to promote false election fraud conspiracy theories and encourage friends to “storm” the Capitol on Jan. 6, was booted off the internet following the siege.

Capitol Police say that they have stepped up security around the Capitol complex since January's insurrection, adding physical security measures such as the fencing topped with razor wire around the Capitol and members of the National Guard who remain at the complex. The statement said the agency was “taking the intelligence seriously” but provided no other specific details on the threat.

Rep. Adriano Espaillat, D-N.Y., said he was “very concerned” about potential threats Thursday and wasn’t sure whether the Capitol Police were adequately prepared to respond.

“I believe that there should be additional resources assigned to their efforts to sweep for explosives, for example,” he said. “And I don’t know to what degree that’s being done right now.”

Lawmakers were expected to be briefed later Wednesday by Capitol Police leadership in a closed session

So far, about 300 people have been charged with federal crimes for their roles in the riot. Five people, including a Capitol Police officer, died.

Since his defeat, Trump has been promoting lies that the election was stolen from him through mass voter fraud, even though such claims have been rejected by judges, Republican state officials and Trump’s own administration. He was impeached by the House after the Jan. 6 riot on a c harge of incitement of insurrection but was acquitted by the Senate.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/police-uncover-possible-plot-militia-161706087.html

 

GO RV, then BV

Calling the Democratic Communist party "Militia members" is just plain wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself. 

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55 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

I don't work for the AP.....Besides Trump's own hand picked FBI director testified under oath that the rioters were not from the Left.

 

GO RV, then BV

 

Back to the same old Shabs

Just trying to be an irritant that agitates.....time to put you back on the naughty list....CL

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1 hour ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

I don't work for the AP.....Besides Trump's own hand picked FBI director testified under oath that the rioters were not from the Left.

 

GO RV, then BV

I was referring to the thieves that steal elections like Nancy Pi$$loosy and the entire democratic Communist party. 

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CBS News

"QAnon Shaman" claims he wasn't attacking the country

CBSNews
Thu, March 4, 2021, 7:45 AM
 
 
Jacob Chansley, also known as Jake Angeli, the so-called
 
Jacob Chansley, also known as Jake Angeli, the so-called

Speaking for the first time from jail, the man known as the "QAnon Shaman" told 60 Minutes+ correspondent Laurie Segall he doesn't think his actions during the January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol were an attack on the nation.

"No, they were not, ma'am. My actions were not an attack on this country. That is incorrect. That is inaccurate, entirely," Jacob Chansley said in an excerpt from the interview that aired on "CBS This Morning."

Video allegedly showed Chansley on the Senate floor during the insurrection, bare-chested and wearing a fur helmet with horns. He was arrested shortly after and now faces up to 20 years behind bars. A judge will hear arguments Friday on whether he should be released from jail before trial.

 

Describing his actions on January 6, Chansley said, "Well, I sang a song. And that's a part of shamanism. It's about-- creating positive vibrations in a sacred chamber. I also stopped people from stealing and vandalizing that sacred space, the Senate. Okay? I actually stopped somebody from stealing muffins out of the-- out of the break room. And I also said a prayer in that sacred chamber. Because it was my intention to bring divinity, and to bring God back into the Senate."

"But Jake, legally, you were not allowed to be in what you're calling the sacred chamber," Segall said to Chansley.

"And that is-- and that is the one very serious regret that I have, was believing that when we were waved in by police officers, that it was acceptable," Chansley said.

Five people died during the insurrection Chansley allegedly participated in. More than 130 officers were injured in the attack, many seriously.

Over 300 people have been charged with crimes in connection with the assault on the Capitol. A federal grand jury indicted Chansley on January 11. The indictment charges two felonies and four misdemeanors, including civil disorder (interfering with a law officer) and violent entry and disorderly conduct in a Capitol building.

An affidavit from Chansley's arrest says investigators were able to identify him as one of the men on the Senate floor by his tattoos and unique attire, matching them with his Facebook account.

The affidavit also says Chansley voluntarily called the FBI the day after the insurrection, admitting he was the man seen wearing a headdress and face paint while sitting in Vice President Mike Pence's chair in the Senate. During that call, Chansley told law enforcement that he came as a part of a group effort, with other "patriots" from Arizona, at the request of President Trump that all "patriots" come to D.C. on January 6.

Asked if he still considers himself to be a patriot, Chansley told Segall, "I consider myself a lover of my country. I consider myself a believer in the Constitution. I consider myself a believer in truth and our founding principles. I consider myself a believer in God."

Chansley said that he believed President Trump "had our back" and expressed disappointment he didn't receive a pardon from the former president. When asked whether he regretted his loyalty to Trump, Chansley told Segall while he regrets entering the building "with every fiber of my being," he doesn't regret his loyalty to the former president.

Segall's report, including her remote interview with Chansley, can be seen on 60 Minutes+, a new show available on ViacomCBS' new streaming platform, Paramount+.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-shaman-claims-wasnt-attacking-124500453.html

 

GO RV, then BV

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