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Trump Slams Bubba Wallace Over Noose ‘Hoax’, Says He Should Apologize


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President Trump on Monday called out Bubba Wallace, the black NASCAR driver, and said he should apologize over last month’s “noose” incident that put the sport on edge shortly after banning the Confederate flag at races.

“Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!” Trump tweeted.

HAS @BUBBAWALLACE APOLOGIZED TO ALL OF THOSE GREAT NASCAR DRIVERS & OFFICIALS WHO CAME TO HIS AID, STOOD BY HIS SIDE, & WERE WILLING TO SACRIFICE EVERYTHING FOR HIM, ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THE WHOLE THING WAS JUST ANOTHER HOAX? THAT & FLAG DECISION HAS CAUSED LOWEST RATINGS EVER!

 
 
 
 

— DONALD J. TRUMP (@REALDONALDTRUMP) JULY 6, 2020

 

The FBI investigation last month into claims that NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace was the target of a hate crime after a “noose” was found hanging in his Talladega Superspeedway garage determined that no crime was committed.

 

“The FBI report concludes, and photographic evidence confirms, that the garage door pull rope fashioned like a noose had been positioned there since as early as last fall, before Wallace and his crew were assigned to the garage,” a NASCAR statement said.

 
 
 
 

Trump’s tweet comes after an impassioned and patriotic speech at Mt. Rushmore on Friday where he clearly differentiated himself from Democrats and protesters keen on wiping out the country’s history.

The Associated Press’ report on Trump’s tweet about Wallace (which was co-authored by Jill Colvin, who famously asked Kayleigh McEnany, the White House spokeswoman, if she would promise not to lie during her tenure) took the position of many in the mainstream media and tried to describe Trump as divisive.

 

The AP reported that Trump’s recent speeches were an attempt to “dig deeper into America’s divisions by accusing protesters who have pushed for racial justice of engaging in a “merciless campaign to wipe out our country’s history.’”

But perhaps Trump’s opponents in the media see the president building momentum and see that Americans are beginning to question the motivation and influences behind these protests.

 
 
 
 

The Black Lives Matter movement has been criticized for turning a blind eye to the surging crime waves in major cities across the country. And famous black voices that have taken a public stance—like Colin Kaepernick and Wallace—have been criticized by conservatives of using the movement to promote their own brand at the expense of national unity.

Kaepernick on Monday announced a new deal with Disney to work with “Black and Brown directors, creators, storytellers & producers” to share “culturally impactful and inspiring projects.”

 

Wallace took to Twitter to talk about his haters and finished his post, “Always deal with the hate being thrown at you with LOVE! Love over hate every day. Love should come naturally as people are TAUGHT to hate. Even when it’s HATE from the POTUS.”

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Embattled Banner: The True History of the Confederate Flag

embattled-banner-featured-image-1200x0-c-default.jpg

John M. Coski

 

If you are a regular reader of Civil War Times, the Confederate battle flag is a familiar part of your world. The symbolism of the flag is simple and straightforward: It represents the Confederate side in the war that you enjoy studying. More than likely, your knowledge of the flag has expanded and become more sophisticated over the years. At some point, you learned that the Confederate battle flag was not, in fact, “the Confederate flag” and was not known as the “Stars and Bars.” That name properly belongs to the first national flag of the Confederacy. If you studied the war in the Western and Trans-Mississippi theaters, you learned that “Confederate battle flag” is a misnomer. Many Confederate units served under battle flags that looked nothing like the red flag with the star-studded blue cross. You may have grown up with more than just an idle knowledge of the flag’s association with the Confederacy and its armies, but also with a reverence for the flag because of its association with Confederate ancestors. If you didn’t, your interest in the war likely brought you into contact with people who have a strong emotional connection with the flag. And, at some point in your life, you became aware that not everyone shared your perception of the Confederate flag. If you weren’t aware of this before, the unprecedented flurry of events and of public reaction to them that occurred in June 2015 have raised obvious questions that all students of Civil War history must confront: Why do people have such different and often conflicting perceptions of what the Confederate flag means, and how did those different meanings evolve?

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(Larry Sherer/High Impact Photography)

The flag as we know it was born not as a symbol, but as a very practical banner. The commanders of the Confederate army in Virginia (then known at the Army of the Potomac) sought a distinctive emblem as an alternative to the Confederacy’s first national flag—the Stars and Bars—to serve as a battle flag. The Stars and Bars, which the Confederate Congress had adopted in March 1861 because it resembled the once-beloved Stars and Stripes, proved impractical and even dangerous on the battlefield because of that resemblance. (That problem was what compelled Confederate commanders to design and employ the vast array of other battle flags used among Confederate forces throughout the war.)Battle flags become totems for the men who serve under them, for their esprit de corps, for their sacrifices. They assume emotional significance for soldiers’ families and their descendants. Anyone today hoping to understand why so many Americans consider the flag an object of veneration must understand its status as a memorial to the Confederate soldier.

It is, however, impossible to carve out a kind of symbolic safe zone for the Confederate battle flag as the flag of the soldier because it did not remain exclusively the flag of the soldier. By the act of the Confederate government, the battle flag’s meaning is inextricably intertwined with the Confederacy itself and, thus, with the issues of slavery and states’ rights—over which readers of Civil War Times and the American public as a whole engage in spirited and endless debate. By 1862, many Southern leaders scorned the Stars and Bars for the same reason that had prompted the flag’s adoption the year before: it too closely resembled the Stars and Stripes. As the war intensified and Southerners became Confederates, they weaned themselves from symbols of the old Union and sought a new symbol that spoke to the Confederacy’s “confirmed independence.” That symbol was the Confederate battle flag. Historian Gary Gallagher has written persuasively that it was Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia, not the Confederate government, that best embodied Confederate nationalism. Lee’s stunning victories in 1862–63 made his army’s battle flag the popular choice as the new national flag. On May 1, 1863, the Confederacy adopted a flag—known colloquially as the Stainless Banner—featuring the ANV battle flag emblazoned on a white field. For the remainder of the Confederacy’s life, the soldiers’ flag was also, in effect, the national flag.

If all Confederate flags had been furled once and for all in 1865, they would still be contentious symbols as long as people still argue about the Civil War, its causes and its conduct. But the Confederate flag did not pass once and for all into the realm of history in 1865. And for that reason, we must examine how it has been used and perceived since then if we wish to understand the reactions that it evokes today. The flag never ceased being the flag of the Confederate soldier and still today commands wide respect as a memorial to the Confederate soldier. The history of the flag since 1865 is marked by the accumulation of additional meanings based on additional uses. Within a decade of the end of the war (even before the end of Reconstruction in 1877), white Southerners began using the Confederate flag as a memorial symbol for fallen heroes. By the turn of the 20th century, during the so-called “Lost Cause” movement in which white Southerners formed organizations, erected and dedicated monuments, and propagated a Confederate history of the “War Between the States,” Confederate flags proliferated in the South’s public life.

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(Heritage Auction, Dallas, TX)

Far from being suppressed, the Confederate version of history and Confederate symbols became mainstream in the postwar South. The Confederate national flags were part of that mainstream, but the battle flag was clearly preeminent. The United Confederate Veterans (UCV) issued a report in 1904 defining the square ANV pattern flag as the Confederate battle flag, effectively writing out of the historical record the wide variety of battle flags under which Confederate soldiers had served. The efforts of the UCV and the United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC) to promote that “correct” battle flag pattern over the “incorrect” rectangular pattern (the Army of Tennessee’s or the naval jack) were frustrated by the public’s demand for rectangular versions that could serve as the Confederate equivalent of the Stars and Stripes. What is remarkable looking back from the 21st century is that, from the 1870s and into the 1940s, Confederate heritage organizations used the flag widely in their rituals memorializing and celebrating the Confederacy and its heroes, yet managed to maintain effective ownership of the flag and its meaning. The flag was a familiar part of the South’s symbolic landscape, but how and where it was used was controlled. Hints of change were evident by the early 20th century. The battle flag had emerged not only as the most popular symbol of the Confederacy, but also of the South more generally. By the 1940s, as Southern men mingled more frequently with non-Southerners in the U.S. Armed Forces and met them on the gridiron, they expressed their identity as Southerners with Confederate battle flags.

The flag’s appearance in conjunction with Southern collegiate football was auspicious. College campuses are often incubators of cultural change, and they apparently were for the battle flag. This probably is owed to the Kappa Alpha Order, a Southern fraternity founded at Washington College (now Washington and Lee University) in 1865, when R.E. Lee was its president. A Confederate memorial organization in its own right, Kappa Alpha was also a fraternity and introduced Confederate symbols into collegiate life. It was in the hands of students that the flag burst onto the political scene in 1948. Student delegates from Southern colleges and universities waved battle flags on the floor of the Southern States Rights Party convention in July 1948.

The so-called “Dixiecrat” Party formed in protest to the Democratic Party convention’s adoption of a civil rights plank. The Confederate flag became a symbol of protest against civil rights and in support of Jim Crow

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(Heritage Auction, Dallas, TX)

segregation. It also became the object of a high-profile, youth-driven nationwide phenomenon that the media dubbed the “flag fad.” Many pundits suspected that underlying the fad was a lingering “Dixiecrat” sentiment. African-American news-papers decried the flag’s unprecedented popularity within the Armed Forces as a source of dangerous division at a time when America needed to be united against Communism. But most observers concluded that the flag fad was another manifestation of youth-driven material culture. Confederate heritage organizations correctly perceived the Dixiecrat movement and the flag fad as a profound threat to their ownership of the Confederate flag. The UDC in November 1948 condemned use of the flag “in certain demonstrations of college groups and some political groups” and launched a formal effort to protect the flag from “misuse.” Several Southern states subsequently passed laws to punish “desecration” of the Confederate flag. All those efforts proved futile. In the decades after the flag fad, the Confederate flag became, as one Southern editor wrote, “confetti in careless hands.” Instead of being used almost exclusively for memorializing the Confederacy and its soldiers, the flag became fodder for beach towels, t-shirts, bikinis, diapers and baubles of every description. While the UDC continued to condemn the proliferation of such kitsch, it became so commonplace that, over time, others subtly changed their definition of “protecting” the flag to defending the right to wear and display the very items that they once defined as desecration. As the dam burst on Confederate flag material culture and heritage groups lost control of the flag, it acquired a new identity as a symbol of “rebellion” divorced from the historical context of the Confederacy. Truckers, motorcycle riders and “good ol’ boys” (most famously depicted in the popular television show The Dukes of Hazzard) gave the flag a new meaning that transcends the South and even the United States.

 

Meanwhile, as the civil rights movement gathered force, especially in the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision, defenders of segregation increasingly employed the use of the battle flag as a symbol of their cause. Most damaging to the flag’s reputation was its use in the hands of the Ku Klux Klan. Although founded by Confederate veterans almost immediately after the Civil War, the KKK did not use the Confederate flag widely or at all in its ritual in the 1860s and 1870s or during its rebirth and nationwide popularity from 1915 to the late 1920s. Only with a second rebirth in the late 1930s and 1940s did the battle flag take hold in the Klan.

Anyone today hoping to understand why so many African Americans and others perceive the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate must recognize the impact of the flag’s historical use by white supremacists. The Civil

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(Heritage Auction, Dallas, TX)

Rights Era has profoundly affected the history of the Confederate flag in several ways. The flag’s use as a symbol of white supremacy has framed the debate over the flag ever since. Just as important, the triumph of civil rights restored African Americans to full citizenship and restored their role in the ongoing process of deciding what does and does not belong on America’s public symbolic landscape. Americans 50 or older came of age when a symbolic landscape dotted with Confederate flags, monuments and street names was the status quo. That status quo was of course the result of a prolonged period in which African Americans were effectively excluded from the process of shaping the symbolic landscape. As African Americans gained political power, they challenged—and disrupted— that status quo. The history of the flag over the last half-century has involved a seemingly endless series of controversies at the local, state and national levels. Over time, the trend has been to reduce the flag’s profile on the symbolic landscape, especially on anyplace that could be construed as public property. As students of history, we tend to think of it as something that happens in the past and forget that history is happening now and that we are actors on the historical stage. Because the Confederate battle flag did not fade into history in 1865, it was kept alive to take on new uses and new meanings and to continue to be part of an ever-changing history. As much as students of Civil War history may wish that we could freeze the battle flag in its Civil War context, we know that we must study the flag’s entire history if we wish to understand the history that is happening around us today. Studying the flag’s full history also allows us to engage in a more constructive dialogue about its proper place in the present and in the future.

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5 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

Funny how Republicans are quick to point out that treasonous Southern Democrats started the civil war and the KKK.....yet in today's U.S. it's those same Republicans who want to preserve that treasonous Confederate "Slave Owning" Heritage.  Odd.  As always, just my opinion.  <_<

 

GO RV, then BV


Nascar has nothing to do with slavery.  You wouldn’t have a brain to understand US history. 

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4 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

Funny how Republicans are quick to point out that treasonous Southern Democrats started the civil war and the KKK.....yet in today's U.S. it's those same Republicans who want to preserve that treasonous Confederate "Slave Owning" Heritage.  Odd.  As always, just my opinion.  <_<

 

GO RV, then BV

Not funny at all. As someone who was both born and raised in the deep south I can very easily explain it to you, 

though you as a Democratic Socialist Party Communist might have a problem understanding. Truth to Communist 

seems to be something of an enigma. 

 

Here goes, 

Back in the mid 1800 the average white southerner was a poor share cropper and received little to no education. 

While the wealthy Plantation owners were privileged and well educated. They didn't just make the Africans Slaves, They 

also considered anyone of less stature than they as servants. It's been this way with the ultra wealthy from the 

beginning of money. After the civil war those ultra wealthy Plantation owners lost most of, if not all of, their  wealth.

By placing their reserves in Confederate money, they found themselves instantly broke and were required to parcel out 

their lands to the very slaves they owned. Eventually it was the government that instituted public education and whala 

everyone was taught history, along with all other courses. Now it should be noted that this education was not the 

Communist education that you support today, where things like history and math are not taught. {Common Core}.

This was what is referred to as "classical education" were truth in studies is tantamount. And this form of teaching 

went on into the late 80's when it was replaced with the Deceitful Communist agenda of the Democratic Socialist Party.

During the time of the early 19 hundreds the rise of the KKK grew with each passing year. But it was not the average 

poor southerner that started the KKK. Rather the folks that ran the KKK were the sons and daughters of the former 

Plantation owners who had then become the business and community leaders of the day. As an example of renown 

I give you the, "Grand Kleagle" Robert Byrd 

 

Robert C. Byrd, was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. After leaving the group, Byrd spoke in favor of the Klan during his early political career. Though he later said he officially left the organization in 1943, Byrd wrote a letter in 1946 to the group's Imperial Wizard stating "The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia.

 

Meanwhile the average southerner, both black and white, lived their lives in peace and happiness, ignoring the escapades of 

what was considered a lunatic fringe, the KKK. 

That was the mistake of the masses for decades, because while we were not paying attention to the Lunatic Fringe they were

Embedding themselves into every level of government possible. That is the standard methodology of the Evil Communist 

Democratic Socialist Party. Rule by deceit. Until the day arrived when not only the average Southerner began to see and understand 

what was happening, but the entire country. 

So what you and your Deceitful Friends in the Left wing Media and the Communist Socialist Party fail to understand is that the 

average Southerner is not Racist, And they never were. Not to the degree that Hollywood and CNN would falsely lead you to think. 

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28 minutes ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

Not funny at all. As someone who was both born and raised in the deep south I can very easily explain it to you, 

though you as a Democratic Socialist Party Communist might have a problem understanding. Truth to Communist 

seems to be something of an enigma. 

 

Here goes, 

Back in the mid 1800 the average white southerner was a poor share cropper and received little to no education. 

While the wealthy Plantation owners were privileged and well educated. They didn't just make the Africans Slaves, They 

also considered anyone of less stature than they as servants. It's been this way with the ultra wealthy from the 

beginning of money. After the civil war those ultra wealthy Plantation owners lost most of, if not all of, their  wealth.

By placing their reserves in Confederate money, they found themselves instantly broke and were required to parcel out 

their lands to the very slaves they owned. Eventually it was the government that instituted public education and whala 

everyone was taught history, along with all other courses. Now it should be noted that this education was not the 

Communist education that you support system">support today, where things like history and math are not taught. {Common Core}.

This was what is referred to as "classical education" were truth in studies is tantamount. And this form of teaching 

went on into the late 80's when it was replaced with the Deceitful Communist agenda of the Democratic Socialist Party.

During the time of the early 19 hundreds the rise of the KKK grew with each passing year. But it was not the average 

poor southerner that started the KKK. Rather the folks that ran the KKK were the sons and daughters of the former 

Plantation owners who had then become the business and community leaders of the day. As an example of renown 

I give you the, "Grand Kleagle" Robert Byrd 

 

Robert C. Byrd, was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. After leaving the group, Byrd spoke in favor of the Klan during his early political career. Though he later said he officially left the organization in 1943, Byrd wrote a letter in 1946 to the group's Imperial Wizard stating "The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia.

 

Meanwhile the average southerner, both black and white, lived their lives in peace and happiness, ignoring the escapades of 

what was considered a lunatic fringe, the KKK. 

That was the mistake of the masses for decades, because while we were not paying attention to the Lunatic Fringe they were

Embedding themselves into every level of government possible. That is the standard methodology of the Evil Communist 

Democratic Socialist Party. Rule by deceit. Until the day arrived when not only the average Southerner began to see and understand 

what was happening, but the entire country. 

So what you and your Deceitful Friends in the Left wing Media and the Communist Socialist Party fail to understand is that the 

average Southerner is not Racist, And they never were. Not to the degree that Hollywood and CNN would falsely lead you to think. 

 

The Confederate flag is the symbol of a treasonous faction that took up arms against the Union....to protect their stately rights to own human beings as beasts of burden.  It is a symbol of racism and treason.  And Greg is partly right....the NASCAR has nothing to do with slavery, but the Confederate flag flown by uneducated NASCAR fans does.....Plain and simple.  You should know this basic information, as we're almost the same age and enjoyed the same public education system.  If Robert E. Lee is truly a hero the Union would not have procured his family farm to be the site of Arlington National Cemetery, where true heroes are buried.  FACT. 

 

Now that you've finally and courageously professed your oath to Trump, you'll have all sorts of nonsense to try and defend.  

 

GO RV, then BV

Edited by Shabibilicious
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34 minutes ago, gregp said:


Nascar has nothing to do with slavery.

 

Sure doesn't, but the Confederate flag does.....Why not fly the flag of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam at NASCAR races instead?....seems it would be a lot more fitting to the NASCAR heritage.

 

GO RV, then BV

Edited by Shabibilicious
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1 hour ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

fail to understand is that the 

average Southerner is not Racist, And they never were. Not to the degree that Hollywood and CNN would falsely lead you to think. 


As someone who has lived and still live in the south ALL my life. I find your statement very very wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

The Confederate flag is the symbol of a treasonous faction that took up arms against the Union....to protect their stately rights to own human beings as beasts of burden.  It is a symbol of racism and treason.  And Greg is partly right....the NASCAR has nothing to do with slavery, but the Confederate flag flown by uneducated NASCAR fans does.....Plain and simple.  You should know this basic information, as we're almost the same age and enjoyed the same public education system.  If Robert E. Lee is truly a hero the Union would not have procured his family farm to be the site of Arlington National Cemetery, where true heroes are buried.  FACT. 

 

Now that you've finally and courageously professed your oath to Trump, you'll have all sorts of nonsense to try and defend.  

 

GO RV, then BV


Now Shabs I will say this as a born and raised southerner the Confederate flags means different things to different people. To me, and this is just what I thought growing up, the Confederate Flag symbolizes the south. What do I mean by that? Opening the door for women. Fried chicken Collard greens and mashed potatoes with cornbread and sweet tea.(trust me sweet tea above the mason Dixon line is not sweet tea) Fireflies. The Sweet smell of the honeysuckle  vine. Making homemade peach ice cream on the front porch of your grandparents house. 
 

But not all have those feelings. To many it means racism and repression. I hate that many feel this way. And because of that I don’t think it should be displayed in public. I applaud what NASCAR has done. But it makes me sad too. To know if I was seen with a confederate flag I would be labeled a racist. Shabs it’s just like on this site, if you are against Trump you are a liberal communist and you hate America. You support everyone who is burning down buildings and shooting people. How completely asinine Is that. But it’s the reality we live in now. That makes me sad too.

Edited by caddieman
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15 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

The Confederate flag is the symbol of a treasonous faction that took up arms against the Union....to protect their stately rights to own human beings as beasts of burden.  It is a symbol of racism and treason.  And Greg is partly right....the NASCAR has nothing to do with slavery, but the Confederate flag flown by uneducated NASCAR fans does.....Plain and simple.  You should know this basic information, as we're almost the same age and enjoyed the same public education system.  If Robert E. Lee is truly a hero the Union would not have procured his family farm to be the site of Arlington National Cemetery, where true heroes are buried.  FACT. 

 

Now that you've finally and courageously professed your oath to Trump, you'll have all sorts of nonsense to try and defend.  

 

GO RV, then BV

The Confederate flag is the symbol of a treasonous faction that took up arms against the Union.

 

WRONG, The Confederate Flag had nothing to do with slavery until the Southern Democratic Plantation owners 

made it their symbol at the creation of the KKK. 

THIS IS WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT

 

On April 12 1861 the civil war began when confederate soldiers fired the first shots at Fort Sumter, it wasn't until 

Sept. 22 1862 when President Lincoln [ THE FIRST REPUBLICAN POTUS] signed the Emancipation Proclamation freeing the slaves. 

This is of importance because it shows that slavery was never the main reason for the civil war. 

 

The Trans Continental Railroad

From the Library of Congress

 

The concept of a railroad linking the new territory of California with the east was an issue in Washington as early as 1830. However,

It wasn't until 1850 that this issue began to take a strong hold in the public debate of the time. 

 

Although Congress failed to sanction his plan, Whitney made the Pacific railroad one of the great public issues of the day. The acquisition of California following the Mexican War opened the way for other routes to the coast. The discovery of gold, the settlement of the frontier, and the success of the eastern railroads increased interest in building a railroad to the Pacific.[11]

 

But just like the politicians of today they simply couldn't agree on where the eastern terminal should be. 

 

The lawmakers, however, could not agree on an eastern terminus, and they did not see the merits of the several routes west. To resolve the debate, money was appropriated in 1853 for the Army Topographic Corps "to ascertain the most practicable and economical route for a railroad from the Mississippi River to the Pacific Ocean."

 

Many surveys were conducted to decide the best route.

 

These surveys showed that a railroad could follow any one of the routes, and that the 32nd parallel route was the least expensive. The Southern Pacific Railroad was subsequently built along this parallel. The southern routes were objectionable to northern politicians and the northern routes were objectionable to the southern politicians, but the surveys could not, of course, resolve these sectional issues.

 

By 1860 it was brought to the attention of President Lincoln where the northern route quickly became the goal of Congress. 

 

While sectional issues and disagreements were debated in the late 1850s, no decision was forthcoming from Congress on the Pacific railroad question. Theodore D. Judah, the engineer of the Sacramento Valley Railroad, became obsessed with the desire to build a transcontinental railroad. In 1860 he approached Leland Stanford, Collis P. Huntington, Mark Hopkins, and Charles Crocker, leading Sacramento merchants, and soon convinced them that building a transcontinental line would make them rich and famous. The prospect of tapping the wealth of the Nevada mining towns and forthcoming legislation for federal aid to railroads stimulated them to incorporate the Central Pacific Railroad Company of California. This line later merged with the Southern Pacific. It was through Judah's efforts and the support of Abraham Lincoln, who saw military benefits in the lines as well as the bonding of the Pacific Coast to the Union, that the Pacific Railroad finally became a reality.

 

While the Railroad Act wasn't signed into law until 1862 the debate as to the eastern terminus of the railroad was settled in 

Chicago with the support of President Lincoln.This support for a northern route infuriated the southern Democrats as they 

believed that all the industrial tech of the day was going to the northern states and thus leaving the southern states with little 

more that Plantation crops. Add to this issue the fact that Lincoln was pushing for a stronger Federal Government and 

taking away what was considered the God given States Rights of the Constitution and the southern states politicians walked 

out of Congress to create there own Union. 

 

 

The Railroad Act of 1862 put government support behind the transcontinental railroad and helped create the Union Pacific Railroad, which subsequently joined with the Central Pacific at Promontory, Utah, on May 10, 1869, and signaled the linking of the continent.

 

Thus, @Shabibilicious The civil war and the Union Jack had more to do with the Transcontinental Railroad and States Rights 

than it did with slavery. The sad thing is that most people won't take the time and effort to learn the truth and subsequently will 

accept the lies that the Communist Democratic Party will put forward with their added technique of misdirection like the one

you just used about my support of President Trump. Something that had no bearing on this conversation but was designed 

to get me off on a tangent about President Trump. 

 

NEVERTHELESS, DECEIT AND MISDIRECTION ARE THE MAIN TOOLS OF THE LEFT. 

 
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1 hour ago, caddieman said:


As someone who has lived and still live in the south ALL my life. I find your statement very very wrong. 

As would all 'Bourgeois' southerners. I personally grew up in that class and found it far too appeasing for my taste. 

 

 

1 hour ago, caddieman said:


Now Shabs I will say this as a born and raised southerner the Confederate flags means different things to different people. To me, and this is just what I thought growing up, the Confederate Flag symbolizes the south. What do I mean by that? Opening the door for women. Fried chicken Collard greens and mashed potatoes with cornbread and sweet tea.(trust me sweet tea above the mason Dixon line is not sweet tea) Fireflies. The Sweet smell of the honeysuckle  vine. Making homemade peach ice cream on the front porch of your grandparents house. 
 

But not all have those feelings. To many it means racism and repression. I hate that many feel this way. And because of that I don’t think it should be displayed in public. I applaud what NASCAR has done. But it makes me sad too. To know if I was seen with a confederate flag I would be labeled a racist. Shabs it’s just like on this site, if you are against Trump you are a liberal communist and you hate America. You support system" rel="">support everyone who is burning down buildings and shooting people. How completely asinine Is that. But it’s the reality we live in now. That makes me sad too.

I've noticed here of late that you do have a tendency of making sense. Perhaps that is because you are listening more 

to your southern beliefs that the northern liberal indoctrination. For example, your current understanding of what thee 

Union Jack stands for is spot on but your appeasement to the Liberals that wish to erase our Nations history could not 

be more wrong. 

Are there racist Southerners? Does a frog bump his butt on the ground? :o Of course he does and of course there are. 

But you and I both know that racism is not nearly as rampant as the liberal media would lead everyone to believe. Most 

people Black or White simply don't have the time or energy. And your thinking that by erasing the history of the Union Jack 

you will eliminate racism from the hearts of all men is seriously flawed. It will only inflame the fury already in the hearts  

of the racist. Such evil in men has been around since Cain killed Able and will always be in the hearts of men. We teach 

our children to love God and to love there fellow humans. That is all one can do. 

 

And yes I constantly rail against people who support the Democratic Socialist Party {even when they call me a liar},

But please understand that if I were to think you actually hated America and what she stands for I wouldn't even attempt to

communicate with you. Shabbs and you are the sum of your experiences and no one can change that. 

But we all can dive into vigorous debate with the hopes of truly enlightening the other to what one perceives is right.

My varied use of adjectives to describe the Democrat Party are not me calling you or Shabbs or anyone else those names.

They are the words that I use to describe the leaders of said party and the thugs they hire to burn down America. However, 

I also hope that in describing those evil people as I do, you and others would find some sense of shame and distance yourselves 

from those leaders. Of course I want you all and everyone here to keep your liberal beliefs. If you so have them. I have constantly 

expressed this one thing to be true, "We may be liberal, we may be Conservative, we may be Libertarian, or any other 

political affiliation one chooses, but WE ARE ALL AMERICANS. 

It's only when someone takes an active position of destroying this nation that I will say that person  is pure evil. 

And I say that because America may not be the holiest of Holy's but America has don'e more to help the people of 

the world than any nation in the history of the world. 

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1 hour ago, caddieman said:

Now Shabs I will say this as a born and raised southerner the Confederate flags means different things to different people. To me, and this is just what I thought growing up, the Confederate Flag symbolizes the south. What do I mean by that? Opening the door for women. Fried chicken Collard greens and mashed potatoes with cornbread and sweet tea.(trust me sweet tea above the mason Dixon line is not sweet tea) Fireflies. The Sweet smell of the honeysuckle  vine. Making homemade peach ice cream on the front porch of your grandparents house.

caddieman, I will agree with you on this.

 

2 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

Why not fly the flag of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam at NASCAR races instead?....seems it would be a lot more fitting to the NASCAR heritage.

That might promote more drunk driving, which would lead to more deaths on the roadways.

 

8 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

Funny how Republicans are quick to point out that treasonous Southern Democrats started the civil war and the KKK

Well, it is true and documented in history.

 

8 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

yet in today's U.S. it's those same Republicans who want to preserve that treasonous Confederate "Slave Owning" Heritage.

Why do you want to ignore and forget history? Those who forget it are doomed to repeat it. It is history, it is the history of this country, it is my history having at least three descendants I know of that fought for the South. I take offense to someone trying to erase my history. It doesn't mean that I support slavery or the KKK. Germany has had a huge rise in Nazism now. Why? Because they tried to erase all history of Hitler and everything associated with it. Now there are more swastikas and Hitler salutes than every. Those symbols are associated with the Holocaust. Do we forget them? No, remember what happened under them so it does not happen again.

 

On one other note about it. How about the first amendment when it comes to the flag. One has a right to free speech and if they want to fly it as a form of that, then can they? I could say I am offended of seeing the Mexican flag flown in front of businesses here in South Texas. Maybe to me it was a symbol of oppression under Santa Anna in the 1830's. Should I argue that they should be taken down because of that? The fact is, they were both over 150 years ago. Get over it.

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28 minutes ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

As would all 'Bourgeois' southerners. I personally grew up in that class and found it far too appeasing for my taste. 

 

 

I've noticed here of late that you do have a tendency of making sense. Perhaps that is because you are listening more 

to your southern beliefs that the northern liberal indoctrination. For example, your current understanding of what thee 

Union Jack stands for is spot on but your appeasement to the Liberals that wish to erase our Nations history could not 

be more wrong. 

Are there racist Southerners? Does a frog bump his butt on the ground? :o Of course he does and of course there are. 

But you and I both know that racism is not nearly as rampant as the liberal media would lead everyone to believe. Most 

people Black or White simply don't have the time or energy. And your thinking that by erasing the history of the Union Jack 

you will eliminate racism from the hearts of all men is seriously flawed. It will only inflame the fury already in the hearts  

of the racist. Such evil in men has been around since Cain killed Able and will always be in the hearts of men. We teach 

our children to love God and to love there fellow humans. That is all one can do. 

 

And yes I constantly rail against people who support system" rel="">support the Democratic Socialist Party {even when they call me a liar},

But please understand that if I were to think you actually hated America and what she stands for I wouldn't even attempt to

communicate with you. Shabbs and you are the sum of your experiences and no one can change that. 

But we all can dive into vigorous debate with the hopes of truly enlightening the other to what one perceives is right.

My varied use of adjectives to describe the Democrat Party are not me calling you or Shabbs or anyone else those names.

They are the words that I use to describe the leaders of said party and the thugs they hire to burn down America. However, 

I also hope that in describing those evil people as I do, you and others would find some sense of shame and distance yourselves 

from those leaders. Of course I want you all and everyone here to keep your liberal beliefs. If you so have them. I have constantly 

expressed this one thing to be true, "We may be liberal, we may be Conservative, we may be Libertarian, or any other 

political affiliation one chooses, but WE ARE ALL AMERICANS. 

It's only when someone takes an active position of destroying this nation that I will say that person  is pure evil. 

And I say that because America may not be the holiest of Holy's but America has don'e more to help the people of 

the world than any nation in the history of the world. 


As I appreciate your explanation to your adjectives that you use to describe the Democrats, they oftentimes bleed over on to people who don’t support Trump. Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In just a few post up here is what you said to Shabs. (though you as a Democrat Socialist Party Communist might have a problem understanding.) That to me you just said Shabs is a communist. And if you didn’t mean that then you need to revise that sentence. And what drives me nuts you often try and come as close as possible to try to infer that.
 

I don’t like Trump because of all the stupid things he says. About how he goes out of his way to be divider and chief. How he attacks people on Twitter. Just to name a quick few. Just because people don’t support Trump doesn’t even make them Democrats. Much less Communist or Hate America. But many post on here to us infer that exact thing.........It gets old.....really old. Reason I flew off the handle about a month back. Just wasn’t going to take it anymore. I have had to bite my lip a bunch of times on here when I get called stupid, America hater, Democrat Socialists, ANTIFA Supporter. Snowflake and many others. JMHO.

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2 hours ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

 

On April 12 1861 the civil war began when confederate soldiers fired the first shots at Fort Sumter, it wasn't until 

Sept. 22 1862 when President Lincoln [ THE FIRST REPUBLICAN POTUS] signed the Emancipation Proclamation freeing the slaves. 

This is of importance because it shows that slavery was never the main reason for the civil war. 

LGD President Lincoln giving the Emancipation Proclamation speech and thus freeing all slaves does not show that slavery was never the main reason for the war. Actually it is one of the very major tenets of the Civil War. 

 

I am going to take you back to a different war where the United States fought to be free of the British Crown. People only associate the Civil War as relating to slavery. When from the very beginning of this country, slavery was a major issue. It was such a major issue that it almost prevented the Untied States, as we know it up until the time of the Civil War, from becoming a single nation. 

 

During the May 1787 Constitutional Convention slavery was little debated and this is what most are taught. However, over the Summer of 1787 it became a central issue the form of taxation and representation were to be followed in the new House of Representatives, as well as, provisions for foreign-based slave trade. The words "slavery"  and "n---o" was deliberately omitted from the founding document because it was thought to tarnish the vision of American liberty and justice. The original draft had 5 articles  that detailed explicit sanctions on slavery and indirect protection in other clauses. 

 

James Madison said years later that during the Convention there was more debate about slavery and  in ratifying the Convention than was ever recorded. And when the Constitution was finally ratified, compromises on the economic viability of slavery in the form of taxation and representation had to be attained. Virginia had recommended at least 11 different such recommendations. 

 

The Civil War as taught today claims that the Civil War was not about the freeing of the slaves but it major tenet was about slavery in general. The New York Times founder and godfather of the Republican Party was especially opposed to slavery overall. Since the ratification of the US Constitution Madison claimed that states were not divided by interest but by whether a state had or did not have slaves. This was such a major role that it alone defined a state. The divide in the states in the Civil War was based on this defining role. So the question remained how long would it before the United States would tolerate slavery as an entire country. And if the nation were to go to war over the secession of states from the whole, did that also mean freeing them? Lincoln had no choice but to free the slaves at the end of the Battle of Gettysburg. It was destined to happen from the first shot of the war. 

 

In 1852 a novel was published that is said to change everything. That novel was Uncle Tom's Cabin. If anyone has not read it, it is centralized around the  main character called Uncle Tom and depicts the reality of life as a slave. 

 

In 1854, the Nebraska-Kansas Act of 1854 was passed that included a provision for "popular sovereignty". Popular sovereignty is the notion that the people of that territory could decide whether they wanted slavery in their territory devoid of Congressional interference. This is said to be a brainchild of Steven Douglas but had come up earlier in 1848. This is important piece of legislation because I told you a state was defined at the time as whether it was a slave or not a slave state. Some scholars also argue that the first shot of the Civil War was not at Fort Sumter as we were led to believe but it was a little known battle (as I call it) along the Missouri-Kansas border where slavery and anti-slavery proponents fought and killed each other to control the area. 

 

In 1856, Senator Charles Sumner of Massachusetts was  caned on the floor of the Senate by Preston Brooks a representative of South Carolina. Sumner had just given a speech decrying the "Crimes Against Kansas" which was about bringing slavery into the state of Kansas.

 

In 1857 the Dred Scott decision was handed down by the SCOTUS.

 

Lincoln was elected and became President in 1860 and inaugurated on March 4, 1861.

 

April 12, 1961 the first shots of the Civil War were fired by Confederate Soldiers at Fort Sumter.  

 

Slavery was very much the thorn in the side since before this country was founded and it almost caused the United States to not be formed as one nation. There are more incidents but the aforementioned ones are the major political incidents leading up to the Civil War. There are far more than this as the United States was in and has been in a state of turmoil based on the decision to continue to allow slavery. What is ironic is that slavery, aka human trafficking, is still practised in countries like the KSA and slave markets still exist in countries like the Sudan. The KSA has denied this but as recently as 2006 a KSA couple was charged with slavery  and agreed to pay the worker $64K in Denver Colorado.. That was a very insightful case into the goings on with slavery in the KSA. The Telegraph had footage of African migrants being sold at slave auctions for as little £300 in 2017. The footage has since been taken down. 

 

If Slavery as it pertains to the United States be taught right in our  elementary, middle, high and higher education schools that is open and objective rather than a one sided perspective that this nation was built upon slavery, which it was not, then we wouldn't  be having this debate today.

 

Sorry this was long post but needed to be said. 

Edited by Theseus
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7 minutes ago, Theseus said:

April 12, 1961 the first shots of the Civil War were fired by Confederate Soldiers at Fort Sumter.  

Should be 1861 not 1961. C'mon everyone writes last year's year as this year. It's a common mistake when you write 19-- this and that all the time.....

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2 hours ago, caddieman said:

I don’t like Trump because of all the stupid things he says.

 

A STUPID person would think and say THAT. The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump says the things he does to be consistant with Reason AND Common Sense. People who do NOT possess Reason AND Common Sense mistakenly misinterpret AND misrepresent The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump's statements AND, therefore, are STUPID.

 

2 hours ago, caddieman said:

About how he goes out of his way to be divider and chief.

 

An OBVIOUS mistaken misinterpretation AND misrepresentation of REALITY. The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump IS discharging the Constitution Of The United States Of America's delineated duties UNDER THE OATH OF OFFICE. OTHERS are CHIEFLY causing DIVISION.

 

2 hours ago, caddieman said:

How he attacks people on Twitter.

 

The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump states the TRUTH about the people AND gets the people to show THEMSELVES for who THEY ARE. Amazing how BRILLIANT The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump is to play THEM and get THEM to show how STUPID AND malfeasant THEY are. A REALLY enjoyable practice to watch IF one REALLY understands what is REALLY going on.

 

2 hours ago, caddieman said:

Just to name a quick few.

 

Of how YOU are played AND show how The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump IS THEE BEST PRESIDENT The United States Of America HAS HAD IN AT LEAST THE LAST TWO HUNDRED (200) YEARS!!!

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2 hours ago, caddieman said:


As I appreciate your explanation to your adjectives that you use to describe the Democrats, they oftentimes bleed over on to people who don’t support system" rel="">support Trump. Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In just a few post up here is what you said to Shabs. (though you as a Democrat Socialist Party Communist might have a problem understanding.) That to me you just said Shabs is a communist. And if you didn’t mean that then you need to revise that sentence. And what drives me nuts you often try and come as close as possible to try to infer that.
 

I don’t like Trump because of all the stupid things he says. About how he goes out of his way to be divider and chief. How he attacks people on Twitter. Just to name a quick few. Just because people don’t support system" rel="">support Trump doesn’t even make them Democrats. Much less Communist or Hate America. But many post on here to us infer that exact thing.........It gets old.....really old. Reason I flew off the handle about a month back. Just wasn’t going to take it anymore. I have had to bite my lip a bunch of times on here when I get called stupid, America hater, Democrat Socialists, ANTIFA Supporter. Snowflake and many others. JMHO.

Shabbs and I have a rather unique relationship. Back before Trump became President Shabbs once commented on how freaky 

it was that we both think so much alike. And I must agree with that statement. We both like to call each other 'Brother', sometimes 

in anger and sometimes in love, but I know this if someone attacks me in an improper way the first person that will come to my 

defense is Shabbs. That has been his history with me and he knows that I feel the same way about him. However, we are both 

spiritually strong in our opinions and that sometimes causes what you see as disrespect. But that is what siblings do. Just 

recently Shabbs called me a liar. Something that I take extremely personal. However, I know that though he may think that 

in the moment he knows that I still love him and know that he will be the first to defend me. So I respond with my own kind 

of hurtful statement to him as you just showed, but Shabbs knows that I will be the first to defend him. Shabbs is a good man 

with one heck of a good heart and though we don't always agree politically I know that without question he loves America and 

he would gladly give his life to defend her. What more can I ask of my own Brother? 

Personally I like arguing with Shabbs because doing so is quite challenging. Sometimes I win and sometimes I don't but when 

I feel as if I won I consider that a grand achievement as I think of Shabbs intellect as Superior to mine and most here. 

And when I give you the complement that I gave above it just means that you are showing your love for America also. Something 

that for me goes far beyond political affiliation. :tiphat:

 

 

1 hour ago, Theseus said:

Should be 1861 not 1961. C'mon everyone writes last year's year as this year. It's a common mistake when you write 19-- this and that all the time.....

To reference both of your post. 

 

As I've show my knowledge of the historical events that led to the great experiment know as America are vast, I know that 

Slavery was an issue with people of good report long before the founding of this nation. In fact most don't know that men 

like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were themselves abolitionist. But the power of the Southern Plantation owners 

at the time of the writing of our Constitution were far to powerful to stop slavery. However, they instilled into the Constitution 

the words that would someday follow in the footsteps of William Wilberforce of Yorkshire who's lifelong work against 

slavery finally led to the end of slavery in England in 1807. These founding fathers of America owned slaves simply 

because there was no way to let them go free that would ensure their safety. Furthermore, doing so at that time would be illegal. 

 But in the very Constitution and Declaration of Independence they penned these words,

"We hold these truths, that all men are created equal...." They knew that 

in doing this they laid the foundation that would eventually end slavery in America. 

Nevertheless, like Wilberforce that battle would be long and arduous. 

Yes you are correct in that slavery was an issue, but you are quite mistaken in that it was a major issue. 

You are correct that slavery was an issue at the founding of America but that does not insinuate that it was the issue that 

cause the Southern Democrats to walk out of Congress and declare Southern Independence. The straw that broke the proverbial 

camels back was States Rights. The civil war only provided President Lincoln with the opportunity to end slavery as the Southern 

Democrats were no longer able to block such an action in Congress. 
The current day Democrats are the perpetrators of the lie that Slavery was the main issue and they only do so because in 

doing so they are able to divide and conquer us. 

Their mission, However, will fail. People are waking up to the evil known as the main Stream Media and are now looking 

to their founders for the truth that is out there. And the truth will not only set you free, but it will unite all good men. 

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51 minutes ago, Synopsis said:

 

A STUPID person would think and say THAT. The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump says the things he does to be consistant with Reason AND Common Sense. People who do NOT possess Reason AND Common Sense mistakenly misinterpret AND misrepresent The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump's statements AND, therefore, are STUPID.

 

 

An OBVIOUS mistaken misinterpretation AND misrepresentation of REALITY. The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump IS discharging the Constitution Of The United States Of America's delineated duties UNDER THE OATH OF OFFICE. OTHERS are CHIEFLY causing DIVISION.

 

 

The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump states the TRUTH about the people AND gets the people to show THEMSELVES for who THEY ARE. Amazing how BRILLIANT The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump is to play THEM and get THEM to show how STUPID AND malfeasant THEY are. A REALLY enjoyable practice to watch IF one REALLY understands what is REALLY going on.

 

 

Of how YOU are played AND show how The True The United States Of America Patriot President Donald J Trump IS THEE BEST PRESIDENT The United States Of America HAS HAD IN AT LEAST THE LAST TWO HUNDRED (200) YEARS!!!


Oh great Mr name caller chimes in!😷

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13 minutes ago, caddieman said:


Oh great Mr name caller chimes in!😷

 

Well, OK, I am REALLY VERY, VERY RELUCTANTLY agreeing with YOUR "self" "assessment(s)" AND "identification" INCLUDING YOUR "personal" "demonstrations".

 

I just wish YOU would STOP doing THAT.

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14 hours ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

While the Railroad Act wasn't signed into law until 1862 the debate as to the eastern terminus of the railroad was settled in 

Chicago with the support system" rel="">support of President Lincoln.This support system" rel="">support for a northern route infuriated the southern Democrats as they 

believed that all the industrial tech of the day was going to the northern states and thus leaving the southern states with little 

more that Plantation crops. Add to this issue the fact that Lincoln was pushing for a stronger Federal Government and 

taking away what was considered the God given States Rights of the Constitution and the southern states politicians walked 

out of Congress to create there own Union. 

 

With respect to the American Civil War and southern states, "God given States Rights of the Constitution" is a dog whistle for the southern enslavement of Africans.....all the rest pales in comparison to that atrocity. 

 

GO RV, then BV

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9 hours ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

The current day Democrats are the perpetrators of the lie that Slavery was the main issue and they only do so because in doing so they are able to divide and conquer us. 

Their mission, However, will fail. People are waking up to the evil known as the main Stream Media and are now looking to their founders for the truth that is out there. And the truth will not only set you free, but it will unite all good men. 

The demonrats still hold slaves in a sense. They are only going about it through social means now. Who is the biggest proponent of social welfare programs and hand handouts? Who is the largest receiver of the handouts? Who started and what is the history of Planned Parenthood? I can go on with all of the social program stuff. They demonrats hold them as slaves now for their votes because over half of this country is now dependent on those social programs. I think Thomas Jefferson had it right in the quotes below. He could see our country down the road if government got too big like it is today.

 

 

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”

 

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

 

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."

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