Affective Gun Control

[coorslite21]

We all are familiar with the rights we have to own guns...and that needs to stay the same...

 

Other countries are doing some of this better.....so let's respectfully discuss what the US might do to prevent some of this violence......open to all subject matter.....

 

The Swiss are a peaceful neutral nation.....here's my first offering for this thread....

 

CL

 

You can read the rest on the link here:

 

Opps...copy and paste issues....Elon Musk keeps coming up.....must be those damn Russians again.

 

• Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting in 18 years.

• In the US, there is almost one every day.

• The Swiss have strict rules for who can get a gun, and take firearm training very seriously.

• Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting since 2001, when a man stormed the local parliament in Zug, killing 14 people and then himself.

The country has about 2 million privately owned guns in a nation of 8.3 million people. In 2016, the country had 47 attempted homicides with firearms. The country's overall murder rate is near zero.

The National Rifle Association often points to Switzerland to argue that more rules on gun ownership aren't necessary. In 2016, the NRA said on its blog that the European country had one of the lowest murder rates in the world while still having millions of privately owned guns and a few hunting weapons that don't even require a permit.

Switzerland Swiss army honor guard soldiers troops military

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by coorslite21

[coorslite21]

Let's try this....

 

 

 

 

The Swiss own millions of guns, but have barely any gun deaths — here's what they do differently from the US

•  
• Hilary Brueck 
• Feb 27, 2018, 7:09 AM

   

Nina Christen of Switzerland shoots in a 10m Rifle ahead of the Rio 2016 Olympic Games on August 4, 2016 in Brazil. Sam Greenwood/Getty Images

 

• The Swiss celebrate hundreds of years of precise target shooting and gun ownership.
• Most Swiss men have to learn how to use a gun, but the majority of Swiss people do not own firearms.
• Militiamen can bring their guns home while serving, but they aren't required to do so.
• Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Switzerland is a country of chocolate, cheese, cuckoo clocks, and lots of guns. Right? Not quite.

The Swiss have often been touted by the National Rifle Association (NRA) as a standout example of a country with little gun control and a homicide rate near zero.

Citizens of the country have even developed a reputation for having their guns ready in the closet at a moment's notice, which has led some people to wonder if the Swiss are all required to own arms in order to protect their state.

The short answer is no

In 2007, the international Small Arms Survey estimated that Swiss civilians owned about 3.4 million guns, more than almost any other country in the world (except the United States and Yemen). But there are signs that the number of armed Swiss is dropping: its now estimatedthere are roughly 2 million privately owned guns in the country - about one for every four Swiss people.

 

The Swiss do, however, have a long history of cherishing hunting rifles and practicing target shooting. In Zurich, an annual festival even celebrates youngsters' burgeoning efforts to learn to pull the trigger responsibly and accurately, with a centuries-old shooting contestopen to girls and boys as young as 13.

Switzerland is home to a largely citizen-sourced militia that supports the stance of "armed neutrality" - the country has stayed neutral and out of armed conflict since 1815.

Swiss President Ueli Maurer pauses after a shot at 300 metres (984.25 feet) during a shooting exercise with the Foreign Diplomatic Corps in Switzerland on May 31, 2013. The annual exercise is a several hundred year-old tradition attended by some 120,000 Swiss marksmen. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse

 

The country also requires all "fit" Swiss men to participate in its mandatory military service. Women can volunteer to be in the state militia too, but they don't have to. And anyone who objects to fighting in the national ranks can instead volunteer in the country's civilian service, which might include more pacifist-friendly tasks like providing social services or fixing up Swiss cultural sites.

Men who serve in the militia are trained and handed a weaponthat they can keep until they're done serving. But recent estimates suggest only 11%actually keep their rifles at home when they're not working. Military ammunition is always kept separately at local armories.

 

Former militiamen are offered the chance to buy their service weapons when they're done serving, but they have to get a permit for those state-issued guns. In fact, with the exception of hunting rifles and semiautomatic longarms, any private gun owner in Switzerland has to get a permit for their gun. And if they've got a criminal record, a history of violence, or are struggling with mental health or addiction, local authorities won't issue one.

Gun deaths in Switzerland have plummeted in recent years, as the country has written stricter rules to align itself with the European Union. But the country still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe - with over 200 firearm deaths a year - most of which are suicides. In the US, the per capita gun death rate is roughly four times that of Switzerland and rising, with over 33,800 people killed by firearms in 2016.

You can read about the history of Swiss gun ownership and how Switzerland has beefed up its gun laws here .

SEE ALSO: Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings

 

[8th ID]

Want effective gun control, then start with education. Bring back Eddie Eagle and get him in the schools again. Start teaching what is right and what is wrong. Lets get the morals back in our country and quit pandering to the little snowflakes and their feelings. Your article above states the most important thing, education. 

1 hour ago, coorslite21 said:

In Zurich, an annual festival even celebrates youngsters' burgeoning efforts to learn to pull the trigger responsibly and accurately, with a centuries-old shooting contest open to girls and boys as young as 13.

I have been a part of these programs, shot competition when I was a youngster in 4-H. Shot competition at the collegiate level. I have been an instructor for younsters in 4-H. Guns are not bad, its the people with bad intentions that are. 

 

The other thing that needs to be done, I have said it before and I will say it again. People that are mentally unstable and cannot function normally in our society need to be locked up in an institution. The answer is not taking guns away from them and taking the guns from anyone else close to them, its take them away from the guns. You do that by locking them up. The "red flag" issue is all wrong. That could very easily turn into a political weapon. I could see a Stalin or Hitler rising to power real quick. I believe @ladyGrace'sDaddy mentioned it earlier in another post. Look at what our corrupt government did to President Trump with the phony dossier. Now if we had the red flag law, anyone that supports an opposing candidate can be labeled as mentally unstable and the other side can have all their weapons removed. Do that to ALL of your opposition and now you have the control needed to take over. This will be a hot button topic for some time and with the political climate we have right now in this country I only see it getting worse.

[MyLadiesDaddy]

1 hour ago, 8th ID said:

That could very easily turn into a political weapon

I guarantee it will.  

[MyLadiesDaddy]

 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

 

[nstoolman1]

It is not about guns. It IS about control.

[Shabibilicious]

20 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

It is not about guns. It IS about control.

 

Not to worry....look who's driving the boat.

 

 

GO RV, then BV

[nstoolman1]

Nice try. He is not trying to ban or restrict my ability to own a firearm or the right to carry one. 

 

[Shabibilicious]

5 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

Nice try. He is not trying to ban or restrict my ability to own a firearm or the right to carry one. 

 

 

That's why I said "Not to worry".  

 

GO RV, then BV

[Karsten]

20 minutes ago, nstoolman1 said:

Nice try. He is not trying to ban or restrict my ability to own a firearm or the right to carry one. 

 

 

 

Actually he is starting to cave in to the left demand and is calling for Red Flag Laws Nation Wide.

 

https://www.facebook.com/likeiowagunowners/videos/717145422063876/

 

Karsten

[8th ID]

1 minute ago, Karsten said:

 

 

Actually he is starting to cave in to the left demand and is calling for Red Flag Laws Nation Wide.

 

https://www.facebook.com/likeiowagunowners/videos/717145422063876/

 

Karsten

I don't think so. He has done this before on other things. He will tell the demonrats that to see where they will take it. He will offer a package deal and they will refuse it because they do not want to give in to him. He will then turn around and use it on them. He is a business man. That is why I voted for him.

[Shabibilicious]

4 minutes ago, Karsten said:

 

 

Actually he is starting to cave in to the left demand and is calling for Red Flag Laws Nation Wide.

 

https://www.facebook.com/likeiowagunowners/videos/717145422063876/

 

Karsten

 

The NRA will set him straight, they speak his language......MONEY.

 

GO RV, then BV

[Shabibilicious]

Like I said....

 

Politics

The NRA is reportedly warning Trump that supporting universal background checks will hurt him politically

 Grace Panetta,Business Insider 1 hour 32 minutes ago 

• Associated Press

The chief executive of the National Rifle Association is warning President Donald Trumpthat backing expanded background checks on gun sales would hurt Trump's standing among his core base of supporters, the Washington Post reported Wednesday. 

The Post said Trump is showing interest in backing legislation to strengthen background checks on people seeking to purchase firearms in the wake of two mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio that killed 31 people and injured dozens of others in the course of 24 hours.

But both NRA executive Wayne LaPierre and Trump's own aides have intervened and are trying to talk Trump out of supporting stronger background checks, sources told the Post, which reported that LaPierre argued that Trump's own supporters do not approve of expanding background checks.

In February, the House of Representatives passed two bills to require background checks on all private gun sales and increase the amount of time required to process a background check — neither of which Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell brought to the floor of the Senate for a vote. 

LaPierre's claim that Trump supporters aren't in favor of background checks is not, however, backed up by recent polling data, which shows overwhelming support for universal background checks across the political spectrum. 

According to a Morning Consult/Politico poll released on August 7, 90% of Republicans and Trump 2016 voters and 89% of those who currently hold a favorable view of Trump support mandatory background checks on all gun sales. 

Republican Sen. Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania and Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia are similarly teaming up on a Senate bill to expand background checks to virtually all private sales, and both told the Post they had spoken to Trump in recent days making the case for the bill — which the NRA does not support.

Manchin said that any legislation expanding background checks would need Trump's support to have a fighting chance on Capitol Hill, telling the Post that he expressed to Trump that "if you don't stand up and say, 'This is a piece of legislation I support,' we're not going to get enough cover to have Republicans stand tall. They won't be able to do it."

The Post also reported that Trump is questioning whether the NRA — which has had a huge influence over Republican lawmakers for decades but is currently weathering a number of financial and legal scandals — still holds the same level of sway within the GOP. 

After the mass shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas high school in Parkland, Florida, the Trump administration similarly defied the NRA by banning bump stocks — devices that allow shooters to fire multiple rounds more quickly. 

Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's allies on the hill, told the Post he's optimistic that Trump "seems determined to do something and believes there is space to get something done this time around," adding, "he's never been a sports or gun enthusiast. But he is more determined than ever to do something on his watch."

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nra-reportedly-warning-trump-supporting-151147370.html

 

GO RV, then BV

[nstoolman1]

Nobody can explain what an expanded background check means. You already go through an Federal and state  background check. Unless you're willing to open up all medical files to the federal  Government and you know they will keep everything so they can use it against you when they need it. 

[coorslite21]

The thread here has gotten off track....as most seem to...

 

So my opinion here is we don't need weapons that hold 30 rounds...

 

5 to 7 rounds should work nicely for anything you're hunting....if it takes more than that, you're a danger to everyone in the area your in.....

 

Background checks....anywhere I have lived... for years.... have done some sort of check.....so this talk in....walk out

.....with an AR noise that the MSM promotes....just not sure where it happens...

 

Schooling on all of this....I would like to see every HS kid be required to take 1 semester of survival.....including hunting/fishing/growing your own food.....processing.....fire and shelter......etc.......there will be a day when we have an EMP event......natural or manmade.......taking us back to the 1800's......our kids and grand kids wouldn't last long.....

[MyLadiesDaddy]

6 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

The thread here has gotten off track....as most seem to...

 

So my opinion here is we don't need weapons that hold 30 rounds...

 

5 to 7 rounds should work nicely for anything you're hunting....if it takes more than that, you're a danger to everyone in the area your in.....

 

Background checks....anywhere I have lived... for years.... have done some sort of check.....so this talk in....walk out

.....with an AR noise that the MSM promotes....just not sure where it happens...

 

Schooling on all of this....I would like to see every HS kid be required to take 1 semester of survival.....including hunting/fishing/growing your own food.....processing.....fire and shelter......etc.......there will be a day when we have an EMP event......natural or manmade.......taking us back to the 1800's......our kids and grand kids wouldn't last long.....

You how much I respect you and your intellect. But I have to ask you one question here, what do you think the people of El Paso and Dayton Ohio think about your 7 round mags? If I'm in a situation like that I personally hope I have four 30 round clips strapped to my back. But hey that's just me.

[Shabibilicious]

18 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

The thread here has gotten off track....as most seem to...

 

So my opinion here is we don't need weapons that hold 30 rounds...

 

5 to 7 rounds should work nicely for anything you're hunting....if it takes more than that, you're a danger to everyone in the area your in.....

 

Background checks....anywhere I have lived... for years.... have done some sort of check.....so this talk in....walk out

.....with an AR noise that the MSM promotes....just not sure where it happens...

 

Schooling on all of this....I would like to see every HS kid be required to take 1 semester of survival.....including hunting/fishing/growing your own food.....processing.....fire and shelter......etc.......there will be a day when we have an EMP event......natural or manmade.......taking us back to the 1800's......our kids and grand kids wouldn't last long.....

 

Of course you are correct, CL.....But staunch gun owners would never agree to 5 to 7 round mags....they would surely view that as government overreach and the first step to losing their guns completely.  As always, just my opinion.

 

GO RV, then BV

[umbertino]

Quote

We all are familiar with the rights we have to own guns...and that needs to stay the same...

 

Other countries are doing some of this better.....so let's respectfully discuss what the US might do to prevent some of this violence......open to all subject matter.....

 

The Swiss are a peaceful neutral nation.....here's my first offering for this thread....

 

CL

 

You can read the rest on the link here:

 

Opps...copy and paste issues....Elon Musk keeps coming up.....must be those damn Russians again.

 

• Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting in 18 years.

• In the US, there is almost one every day.

• The Swiss have strict rules for who can get a gun, and take firearm training very seriously.

• Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting since 2001, when a man stormed the local parliament in Zug, killing 14 people and then himself.

The country has about 2 million privately owned guns in a nation of 8.3 million people. In 2016, the country had 47 attempted homicides with firearms. The country's overall murder rate is near zero.

The National Rifle Association often points to Switzerland to argue that more rules on gun ownership aren't necessary. In 2016, the NRA said on its blog that the European country had one of the lowest murder rates in the world while still having millions of privately owned guns and a few hunting weapons that don't even require a permit.

End Quote

 

 

Thanks CL.....All very interesting......

[8th ID]

37 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

The thread here has gotten off track....as most seem to...

 

So my opinion here is we don't need weapons that hold 30 rounds...

 

5 to 7 rounds should work nicely for anything you're hunting....if it takes more than that, you're a danger to everyone in the area your in.....

 

Background checks....anywhere I have lived... for years.... have done some sort of check.....so this talk in....walk out

.....with an AR noise that the MSM promotes....just not sure where it happens...

 

 

15 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

Of course you are correct, CL.....But staunch gun owners would never agree to 5 to 7 round mags....they would surely view that as government overreach and the first step to losing their guns completely.  As always, just my opinion.

 

GO RV, then BV

I would never agree to 5-7 rounds. Everyone seems to forget why the 2nd Amendment is there. It is there to protect the 1st Amendment and to ensure the government stays belonging to the people, not the people belong to the government. So Shabs, you are correct, it would be a government overreach and the first step to becoming subjects, not citizens.

 

43 minutes ago, coorslite21 said:

I would like to see every HS kid be required to take 1 semester of survival.....including hunting/fishing/growing your own food.....processing.....fire and shelter......etc.......there will be a day when we have an EMP event......natural or manmade.......taking us back to the 1800's......our kids and grand kids wouldn't last long.....

CL, I couldn't agree more with you on this. However, I know you wouldn't want 5-7 rounds mags when it does happen.

[Jim1cor13]

Thanks CL for the thread.

 

I always ask the same question when it comes to "gun control" debates, etc.

 

Does a gun, rifle, etc., ever on its own, pursue its target? A human must pick it up, point it at a target and pull the trigger.

 

The trigger puller must be held accountable, the gun did not commit the crime but it is blamed. if someone drowns in a pond of water...should we blame the water? A human beats another with a baseball bat...blame the bat?

 

Agreed on education, but the real problem is always the human factor. Humans have been for the most part predatory since time began. Little has changed on that fact, only thing that changes are the weaponry employed to be used by humans.

 

Violence, war, conflicts of every type are now part of american culture, fed by politics, media, etc. 

 

2nd amendment was created so the public could protect themselves from govt. abuse, tyranny. Of course personal defense is close second and THAT should never be toyed with by any political party. We the people must maintain the right to bear arms...and the very reason is what we continue to see played with by both parties..."gun control".

 

Now having said that...often those involved in shooting crimes are often on the younger side. What drives this, going back to mid to late 90's when school shootings began to become far too common? 

 

Most school shootings if one digs deep enough have been linked to some form of pharmaceutical drug, some psychotropic drug. Many labels on these drugs warn of potential violent outbreaks, etc. Especially in the YOUNG, but can affect anyone with bouts of violent behavior.

 

We hear little about that factor, the drug factor, because much of media will NOT report it specifically because pharma is a large part of their advertising and they are told NOT mention it.

 

In addition, where do some kids get the idea to pursue violence? parents? Parents politics or political ideologies? The constant left/right bickering the young may see or hear? 

 

Bottom line is the problem is a human one, and one that no one or nothing has been able to tame. It all goes back to one major principle of life...treat others as you desire to be treated. This one principle is older than any religion, and is the basis of human interaction.

 

This too has failed. As long as the minds of people young or old are fed a constant diet of spin and media programming often with violence a part of the daily diet, any attempt to "control" guns is simply missing the point.

 

Anyone has the potential to become unstable due to a myriad of causes, influence of politics or religion, mental instabilities, that may push them to take their anger out on innocent people. 

 

 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

IT WAS WRITTEN TO PREVENT CERTAIN TYPES OF GOVERNMENT 

[umbertino]

2 hours ago, Jim1cor13 said:

Thanks CL for the thread.

 

I always ask the same question when it comes to "gun control" debates, etc.

 

Does a gun, rifle, etc., ever on its own, pursue its target? A human must pick it up, point it at a target and pull the trigger.

 

The trigger puller must be held accountable, the gun did not commit the crime but it is blamed. if someone drowns in a pond of water...should we blame the water? A human beats another with a baseball bat...blame the bat?

 

Agreed on education, but the real problem is always the human factor. Humans have been for the most part predatory since time began. Little has changed on that fact, only thing that changes are the weaponry employed to be used by humans.

 

Violence, war, conflicts of every type are now part of american culture, fed by politics, media, etc. 

 

2nd amendment was created so the public could protect themselves from govt. abuse, tyranny. Of course personal defense is close second and THAT should never be toyed with by any political party. We the people must maintain the right to bear arms...and the very reason is what we continue to see played with by both parties..."gun control".

 

Now having said that...often those involved in shooting crimes are often on the younger side. What drives this, going back to mid to late 90's when school shootings began to become far too common? 

 

Most school shootings if one digs deep enough have been linked to some form of pharmaceutical drug, some psychotropic drug. Many labels on these drugs warn of potential violent outbreaks, etc. Especially in the YOUNG, but can affect anyone with bouts of violent behavior.

 

We hear little about that factor, the drug factor, because much of media will NOT report it specifically because pharma is a large part of their advertising and they are told NOT mention it.

 

In addition, where do some kids get the idea to pursue violence? parents? Parents politics or political ideologies? The constant left/right bickering the young may see or hear? 

 

Bottom line is the problem is a human one, and one that no one or nothing has been able to tame. It all goes back to one major principle of life...treat others as you desire to be treated. This one principle is older than any religion, and is the basis of human interaction.

 

This too has failed. As long as the minds of people young or old are fed a constant diet of spin and media programming often with violence a part of the daily diet, any attempt to "control" guns is simply missing the point.

 

Anyone has the potential to become unstable due to a myriad of causes, influence of politics or religion, mental instabilities, that may push them to take their anger out on innocent people. 

 

 

 

 

Hello Friend Jim....I (think) I do understand your reasoning.....Talking about ponds , bats, etc....Logical stuff, sure

 

 

The point is ( I know that sounds like bigotry to gun owners  / lovers  ears but they can always  stop reading my post any second or  skip my post and / or put me on ignore) firearms are made with the specific aim to kill / hurt  someone usually in a deadly way ...That's their primary scope, while it's not for ponds, bats etc.....

 

I already anticipate the critiques about my point...So how does law enforcement etc supposed to work then? That's right ....Law Enforcement ( and armies obviously in my very naive  vision) , should be the only personnel authorized to posses  / hold firearms  ( in my idea of world) ....

 

Having said that ( since mine is only my personal view of the issue  and a form of "pious desire"....One can have desires...Realizing them is an entirely different matter..) I do acknowledge the full right  of everybody to bear arms....But I simply do not share that idea  and never will

 

[nstoolman1]

Give me Liberty, or give me death.   Patrick Henry

 

 

Without the first the second comes more easily. 

If I want a 30 round mag or a 50 or 100 no one has the right to restrict that. 

If someone else doesn't want it then fine, don't buy it. Keep your opinions or dislikes to yourself and 

leave me alone. 

 

 

 

[stt]

Large percentage of the shooters are usually young but not all the time the one thing in common is the drugs jim1 brought up. Hipaa law prevents sharing this information with gun dealers, when mj was being legalized in my area if you got a mj license they were going to take away owning a gun, didn't work.  If you're prescribed these drugs you dam shouldn't have a gun. There's been people have seriously violent reactions to these drugs. The drugs don't do what there supposed to do, it doesn't get better it just gets worse