Democrats on Trump Border Wall: Uh Oh

[yota691]

 

[bostonangler]

Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are fighting to end the partial government shutdown – or as some see it, the “showdown” between them and the president – and they are winning. I am not alone in this opinion.

The numbers back it up. Polls show the majority of Americans blame President Trump and Republicans for this shutdown – not Speaker Pelosi or Senate Minority Leader Schumer.

 

Why? A majority of Americans do not favor building a wall, which is at the crux of this shutdown. While most voters believe there is a border crisis, they don’t feel Trump’s border wall will solve the problem, echoing the sentiments of the Democratic leadership. Add in that Trump’s approval ratings stand at 41 percent, the lowest since September, while his disapproval rating is 54 percent, the highest it’s been since September.  Plus the fact that for the first time in his presidency, he is less popular than Nancy Pelosi, his main adversary.

FEDERAL JUDGE: GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES CAN'T REFUSE TO WORK UNPAID DURING PARTIAL SHUTDOWN

While the president stands firm in his desire for a wall, with a $5 billion price tag, Democrats hit the ground running since taking control of the House by putting forth legislation to re-open the government. The House voted to fund most government agencies with the exception of the Department of Homeland Security – legislation that does not include new funding for a border wall but that is nearly identical to bills Republicans have passed before. Nevertheless, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell blocked this move by Senate Democrats, which Speaker Pelosi called “the height of irresponsibility and political cynicism for Senate Republicans to now reject the same legislation they have already supported.” Americans seem to agree, with two-thirds (or 63 percent) saying they like the Democrats’ plan, including 39 percent who say they are Republicans.

But there are cries of hypocrisy where the Democrats are concerned as well. We’ve seen headlines saying “Democrats were for a wall before they were against it…” – and that is partially true.  Back in 2006, the Secure Fence Act was passed with over half the Democrats supporting it. One who did not?  Nancy Pelosi. She voted against it.  And in 2013, Pelosi and Chuck Schumer’s gang of eight favored 700 miles of fencing. Trump is now asking for 700-900 miles for his wall.

So what’s going on here? More than just semantics. During the campaign, Trump said he was going to build a 30-foot-tall concrete wall to span the entire length of the border. What the Democrats wanted then, and still want now, is to strategically place clear-view secure fencing that works hand in hand with surveillance technology.

Although Speaker Pelosi calls the wall immoral, I disagree. It’s not immoral, but it is ineffective and Democrats know this. 

Illegal immigration has also been steadily dropping for the past decade.  Back when the Secure Fence Act was agreed upon, there was a surge in illegal immigration, which at its peak had about 12.2 million people crossing and over a million apprehensions. Compare that to now, where the number of those coming over the border has dropped by more than a million and apprehensions are down to around 400,000.

So how do I know that Pelosi and Schumer and the Democrats are winning on this? Because Republicans are wavering. Senator Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., has proposed re-opening the government while talks continue and three GOP senators – Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Susan Collins of Maine, and Cory Gardner of Colorado – have said they would break with Trump to re-open the government.

One last point: Although Speaker Pelosi calls the wall immoral, I disagree. It’s not immoral, but it is ineffective and Democrats know this. The majority of undocumented immigrants come to the United States through our airports and overstay their visas. Within the past month, three tunnels were discovered between the United States and Mexico – one about 50 feet long from Mexico to a parking lot in Arizona, and two others in the border city of Nogales. Authorities suspect the tunnels were built to smuggle people or contraband across the border.

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And the president’s argument that drugs are being smuggled over the border is also ringing hollow. A little over a week ago, 709 pounds of cocaine were seized at a Port of Philadelphia facility, the largest haul in 10 years. These drugs were found inside containers that came from Puerto Rico.  Even the El Chapo trial shows us the president is wrong when it comes to drugs, as witnesses have been saying for weeks that while Joaquin Guzman (El Chapo) moved tons of cocaine and heroin from Mexico to the U.S., almost none of it came across the unsecured stretch of our borders.

Democrats and the leadership under Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer know this is more than a political power play and they know what’s really at stake; returning approximately 800,000 federal workers back to their jobs and securing the border with smart choices, not by fulfilling a campaign promise made by a Republican president.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/on-the-shutdown-pelosi-and-schumer-are-winning

 

Fair and balanced...

B/A

[Pitcher]

Border rancher: 'We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal'

 

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LORDSBURG, N.M. — Ranchers and farmers near the U.S.-Mexico border have been finding prayer rugs on their properties in recent months, according to one rancher who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation by cartels who move the individuals. 

The mats are pieces of carpet that those of the Muslim faith kneel on as they worship. 

"There’s a lot of people coming in not just from Mexico," the rancher said. "People, the general public, just don’t get the terrorist threats of that. That’s what’s really scary. You don’t know what’s coming across. We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal. It’s not just Mexican nationals that are coming across." 

 

 

Her comments were part of a larger conversion about how many in the region believe migrants are coming to the U.S. illegally from all over the world, not just Central America. 

Border Patrol and its parent agency, Customs and Border Protection, did not respond to multiple interview requests. But CBP's Arizona region issued a statement on Twitter Wednesday that said agents had arrested people from across the world over the past five days. 

The rancher, who lives with her family in a remote, southwestern part of the state, said the discoveries raise questions about how many people who illegally entered the U.S. in Hidalgo County, N.M., traveled thousands of miles from overseas to sneak across the southern border. 

She is one of just a few hundred residents of Animas, N.M., a tiny town that sits between the international border and the Border Patrol's Lordsburg Station, which is 95 miles north of the boundary. 

A New Mexico rancher speaks with the Washington Examiner about migrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border illegally, Tuesday, Jan. 15, 2019.

 

The few hundred residents have no local police department. They rely on the Hidalgo County Sheriff's Department and U.S. Border Patrol to help when they need it, but otherwise count on tips and support from one another because of the 40 miles that separate the community from the county headquarters in Lordsburg. 

The rancher and six other residents of Animus told Washington Examiner this week that migrants from places other than Mexico and Central America are arriving. 

"I've talked to several agents that I trust. There’s not a lot that I do trust, but the ones I do trust, I talk to them," she said during a tour of her property. "What Border Patrol classifies as OTMs [other than Mexicans] has really increased in the last couple years, but drastically within the last six months. Chinese, Germans, Russians, a lot of Middle Easterners. Those Czechoslovakians they caught over on our neighbor’s just last summer."

Billy Darnell, a cattle rancher in Animus, said his neighbor had 18 women and children from the Philippines show up on his property last year. Border Patrol was called to the scene and took the group in. 

A New Mexico rancher holds a bottle found while touring her property near the U.S.-Mexico border, Tuesday, Jan. 15, 2019.

(Anna Giaritelli / Washington Examiner)

Government data indicates six known or suspected terrorists were caught trying to enter the U.S. from Mexico from Oct. 1, 2017, through March 31, 2018. However, the Trump administration has stated on several occasions that 3,700 people who were identified as coming from countries with terrorism problems have also been apprehended at that border. 

"We’ve talked about the thousands — the thousands of terror watch list individuals who traveled through our hemisphere last year," Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said on Fox News this month. "To pretend there’s not a danger on an unsecured border, on an open border, is just ridiculous. It belies common sense."

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/border-rancher-weve-found-prayer-rugs-out-here-its-unreal

[Pitcher]

The polls may show people want the government to open but Pelosi is wrong on Border Security and absent of common sense. Maybe she should go to the border and talk to some Ranchers, Border Patrol Agents, and anyone with some common sense..Oh I forgot she is too busy playing in Hawaii and Puerto Rico.  

[bostonangler]

Everyone is beginning to see there was an agreement and Trump is refusing it because he wants the wall to be his legacy... Experts have all said there are better solutions for the money than medieval technology. I don't think people are against security, they just want what is best. We all know Trump's record isn't doing what is best. Ask the Americans who are working for free. Ask the economist who are saying the effect on the economy is twice as bad as the administration thought it would be. Ask the farmers... They are dying with the effects of tariffs. Ask the soldiers who are dying in Syria, because ISIS isn't defeated like Trump just stated.  Ask our allies. They know what will happen if Trump pulls out of NATO. Ask the people in South Korea. Because North Korea is no longer a threat according to our president.

I could go on, but the bottom line is he is full of himself and fewer and fewer people are believing.

 

B/A

[cranman]

@bostonangler So you think the wall will be ineffective and in no way will contribute to the reduction of illegal immigration ?  You believe that the border patrol agents do not want a wall and that it won't help them with there day to day job of monitoring the border and catching illegal immigrants that try to cross the border?   Just curious.

 

I agree with your belief that we need to stop hiring them and giving them a reason to come here.  Absoloutely!  Those that do hire them should be fined or penalized somehow.  Those that give sanctuary should punished for aiding and abetting  a fugitive.  Lots of things should be done now and simultaneously.

 

Speaking as someone who has worked security a nuclear site and at Combat Outpost Bases and Forward Outpost Bases in theaters of combat I have to say I like walls.  They make me feel safe, warm and cozy.  (a little humor). When manned, maintained and monitored correctly they are a great deterrent and force multiplier (sorta speak).

 

JMO.  

[Pitcher]

BA,  Almost everything you say is wrong but I’m too tired to debate you.  

[CSM (R) Thack]

54 minutes ago, cranman said:

Speaking as someone who has worked security a nuclear site and at Combat Outpost Bases and Forward Outpost Bases in theaters of combat I have to say I like walls.  They make me feel safe, warm and cozy.  (a little humor). When manned, maintained and monitored correctly they are a great deterrent and force multiplier (sorta speak).

Hooah!!!!👍🇺🇸

[yota691]

12 hours ago, Pitcher said:

BA,  Almost everything you say is wrong but I’m too tired to debate you.  

B/A be like 

 

[bostonangler]

Are Americans working for free? Yup

Is the shutdown hurting the economy worse than predicted? Yup

Are farmers being hurt by tariffs? Yup

Is ISIS defeated? Nope

If America leaves NATO will it hurt our allies? Yup

Is North Koreas still a threat? Yup

 

So what part of this isn't correct?

 

B/A

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Do liberals have their head in a cloud, yep. Are liberals blinded by their unabated hatred for President Donald J Trump? Yep

[Pitcher]

Are Americans working for free.    They will get paid. 

Is the shutdown hurting the economy.    Not yet.

Are farmers hurt by tariffs.    For a short while but China is buying MORE soybeans now than before tariffs. 

Is Issis defeated.  No but they are lowered to just small groups.  Unlike during Obama when they were taking over Iraq

if America leaves NATO it will hurt our Allies.   We are not leaving Nato. They are paying more than ever. 

Is Nort Korea still a threat.   Yes but they are not firing missles over Japan and we haven’t paid them off like Obama

 

 

You tell half truths to fit your Democratic agenda. Why won’t your Democratic leaders grow up and negotiate in good faith with President Trump.  Why is everything with the Democrats NO and Resistance.  Your leaders are garbage

[Shabibilicious]

29 minutes ago, Pitcher said:

Are Americans working for free.    They will get paid. 

Is the shutdown hurting the economy.    Not yet.

Are farmers hurt by tariffs.    For a short while but China is buying MORE soybeans now than before tariffs. 

Is Issis defeated.  No but they are lowered to just small groups.  Unlike during Obama when they were taking over Iraq

if America leaves NATO it will hurt our Allies.   We are not leaving Nato. They are paying more than ever. 

Is Nort Korea still a threat.   Yes but they are not firing missles over Japan and we haven’t paid them off like Obama

 

 

You tell half truths to fit your Democratic agenda. Why won’t your Democratic leaders grow up and negotiate in good faith with President Trump.  Why is everything with the Democrats NO and Resistance.  Your leaders are garbage

 

Whoa whoa.....negotiate in good faith.  There are no negotiations coming from the White House either.....it's a wall, period.  He's not negotiating, Pitcher, and you know that.

 

And those furloughed workers can't just walk into their creditors and say.....well at some point I'll be getting paid, so just sit on my bill until that day....think of it Mr. Creditor as me furloughing you.  Doesn't work that way.  

 

GO RV, then BV

Edited January 17, 2019 by Shabibilicious

[Pitcher]

President Trump will not negotiate with himself. Pelosi has stated that she wil not give one penny to Fund a wall and her offer of one dollar is insulting. Every President going back to Reagan received money to build a wall and this President gets zero. Why?

Resistance.  

 

Pelosi is using this event to appeal to her base as is Trump. It’s stupid but it takes two to tango.  That’s what politicians do, they compromise, you get some of what you want and we get some of what we want.  DC is broken and the Dems are the party of NO, as were the Reps during Barry’s term.  

 

Both sides are dug in and both sides are wrong in my opinion. The Federal workers are the pawns being used by both parties.  The Dems could end this but if you remember last year we had a shut down and a temporary reopen to negotiate and Pelosi wouldn’t do it. That’s why Trump is non bending this time. 

 

 

[Shabibilicious]

1 minute ago, Pitcher said:

President Trump will not negotiate with himself. Pelosi has stated that she wil not give one penny to Fund a wall and her offer of one dollar is insulting. Every President going back to Reagan received money to build a wall and this President gets zero. Why?

Resistance.  

 

Pelosi is using this event to appeal to her base as is Trump. It’s stupid but it takes two to tango.  That’s what politicians do, they compromise, you get some of what you want and we get some of what we want.  DC is broken and the Dems are the party of NO, as were the Reps during Barry’s term.  

 

Both sides are dug in and both sides are wrong in my opinion. The Federal workers are the pawns being used by both parties.  The Dems could end this but if you remember last year we had a shut down and a temporary reopen to negotiate and Pelosi wouldn’t do it. That’s why Trump is non bending this time. 

 

 

 

Fair enough....both sides to blame at this point.  American workers are being held hostage while the children in D.C. refuse to play with each other, I get it.  It's just too bad they couldn't have reached a deal a year ago when the Dems were offering 25 billion plus and Donald refused because of DACA and chain migration.  They should have hashed it out then, like adults.  I say, suspend all their Twitter accounts and watch things start to move toward an agreement.  

 

GO RV, then BV

[MyLadiesDaddy]

30 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

 

Fair enough....both sides to blame at this point.

 no they're not, President Trump's solution has everything that the Democrats claim to want. But you don't know that because you're not listening to all sides of the story.

 

 

[Shabibilicious]

32 minutes ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

 no they're not, President Trump's solution has everything that the Democrats claim to want. But you don't know that because you're not listening to all sides of the story.

 

 

 

Yes they are.  Rep Crenshaw didn't make one mention of DACA.  If the Dems give Trump his wall and all the other security measures that come with it, without negotiating some the immigration issues they would like to see, then they are giving away any leverage they have.  This could have all been settled a year ago.  Both sides are indeed to blame at this point....but make no mistake, Trump accepts blame for the shutdown, it's on tape and everybody has seen it, maybe not on Fox, but everywhere else in the free world.

 

GO RV, then BV

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Trump offered DACA to the Democrats back in January of 2018 and they refused, but you already know that. 

So if they refused it once why waste your breath offering it again? 

But I'll guarantee you if Pelosi offered Trump 5.6 Billion for boarder Security in exchange for DACA Trump would sign that bill in a second. 

[Shabibilicious]

2 minutes ago, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

Trump offered DACA to the Democrats back in January of 2018 and they refused, but you already know that. 

So if they refused it once why waste your breath offering it again? 

But I'll guarantee you if Pelosi offered Trump 5.6 Billion for boarder Security in exchange for DACA Trump would sign that bill in a second. 

 

There were other issues besides DACA, I was using that as an example because the list is long and tedious.  And you may be right about the 5.6 Billion now, but you and I both know neither one of them is going to be the first to flinch and offer up anything....this is why we're broken.  Saving political face is more important to all concerned.....I just never realized that Pelosi gives Trump quite a run in that arena.

 

GO RV, then BV

[Pitcher]

Yota, I just watched your video. Thank you for sharing this, it’s funny.  Don’t listen to what they say to get elected, watch what they do.  

The Dems said all the correct things until they decided to dig in to embarrass this President. Resistance!!!

No wonder Americans are skeptical about the swamp. They say one thing and then do the opposite.  Hypocrisy at its finest.  

 

 

[bostonangler]

3 hours ago, Pitcher said:

Are Americans working for free.    They will get paid. 

Is the shutdown hurting the economy.    Not yet.

Are farmers hurt by tariffs.    For a short while but China is buying MORE soybeans now than before tariffs. 

Is Issis defeated.  No but they are lowered to just small groups.  Unlike during Obama when they were taking over Iraq

if America leaves NATO it will hurt our Allies.   We are not leaving Nato. They are paying more than ever. 

Is Nort Korea still a threat.   Yes but they are not firing missles over Japan and we haven’t paid them off like Obama

 

 

You tell half truths to fit your Democratic agenda. Why won’t your Democratic leaders grow up and negotiate in good faith with President Trump.  Why is everything with the Democrats NO and Resistance.  Your leaders are garbage

Trump’s White House admits shutdown is having far worse impact on economy than originally anticipated

As Democrats and Republicans clash over Donald Trump’s demands for $5.7bn in funding for a southern border wall, the president's Council of Economic Advisers has acknowledged the government shutdown will have a far worse impact on economic growth than anticipated.

The agency — which advises the president on matters of economic policy — revealed in its latest analysis the shutdown could force the US economy to contract, meaning a drop in national output, along with declines in real personal income and industrial production.

The loss in economic growth will nearly double what the council had predicted in its original estimates. The shut down is currently in its 26th day.

Mr. Trump has walk backed the possibility of declaring a state of emergency along the US-Mexico border — a move that could possibly provide a path for the president to receive his wall funding, but would likely face legal scrutiny — and warned earlier this month the shutdown could last “months or even years”.

Video: Hundreds of Thousands Struggle as Shutdown Continues

Meanwhile, in an effort to alleviate the damage caused by the shutdown, the White House administration has called thousands of federal employees working at airports, food inspection facilities and the Internal Revenue Service back to work this week without pay.

Council of Economic Advisers chairman Kevin Hassett blamed the Democratic Party in an announcement revealing the agency’s latest assessment of the shutdown.

“Congress needs to look at the harms that we’re talking about,” he said on Tuesday, “and address them.”

Nearly 800,000 federal employees are currently working without pay or are furloughed across the country, causing a spike in absences at the nine agencies impacted by the shutdown.

Whereas Mr Trump took credit for the government shutdown before it happened, telling Democratic leadership during a televised meeting, “I am proud to shut down the government for border security,” he has since shifted the blame to Democratic Party for refusing to accept his demands.

“Nancy and Cryin’ Chuck can end the Shutdown in 15 minutes. At this point it has become their, and the Democrats, fault!” the president tweeted on Monday.

[bostonangler]

3 hours ago, Pitcher said:

if America leaves NATO it will hurt our Allies.   We are not leaving Nato.

 

Idle threats????

 

President Donald Trump said privately several times last year that he wanted to withdraw the U.S. from NATO, the New York Times reported Monday night. Citing senior administration officials, the Times said the idea was expressed around the tumultuous NATO summit last summer in Brussels, with Trump saying he didn't see the point of the U.S. belonging to NATO. Sources told the Times that they worry Trump could again seek to withdraw from NATO now that the calming influence of former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is gone and as European military spending continues to lag. Experts told the Times that withdrawing from NATO would be a catastrophe for U.S. foreign policy, sabotaging 70 years of U.S. efforts and handing a huge victory to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has repeatedly sought to undermine NATO.

[bostonangler]

3 hours ago, Pitcher said:

Are Americans working for free.    They will get paid. 

Is the shutdown hurting the economy.    Not yet.

Are farmers hurt by tariffs.    For a short while but China is buying MORE soybeans now than before tariffs. 

Is Issis defeated.  No but they are lowered to just small groups.  Unlike during Obama when they were taking over Iraq

if America leaves NATO it will hurt our Allies.   We are not leaving Nato. They are paying more than ever. 

Is Nort Korea still a threat.   Yes but they are not firing missles over Japan and we haven’t paid them off like Obama

 

 

You tell half truths to fit your Democratic agenda. Why won’t your Democratic leaders grow up and negotiate in good faith with President Trump.  Why is everything with the Democrats NO and Resistance.  Your leaders are garbage

 

Sorry Pitcher no offense, but you are defending someone who is making things up... ISIS isn't defeated. They may be even more dangerous now that he has challenged them to remain relevant. No one has ever believed North Korea and this past meeting proved our President is easily played. Farmers crops are rotting in silos and they are asking for bailouts... We don't like bailouts, remember? 

The next big thing Trump is going to do is put us in a war. It's as though the end times predictions are playing out before our eyes and he is the catalyst.

 

B/A

[coorslite21]

32 minutes ago, bostonangler said:

 

Idle threats????

 

President Donald Trump said privately several times last year that he wanted to withdraw the U.S. from NATO, the New York Times reported Monday night. Citing senior administration officials, the Times said the idea was expressed around the tumultuous NATO summit last summer in Brussels, with Trump saying he didn't see the point of the U.S. belonging to NATO. Sources told the Times that they worry Trump could again seek to withdraw from NATO now that the calming influence of former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is gone and as European military spending continues to lag. Experts told the Times that withdrawing from NATO would be a catastrophe for U.S. foreign policy, sabotaging 70 years of U.S. efforts and handing a huge victory to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has repeatedly sought to undermine NATO.

 

Typical Goverment....moving beyond the intended/initial scope......Ken Star did it on his investigation of Clinton.....same thing going on with Mueller......

NATO was established to protect Western Europe from the Soviet Union........at the time ...that part of the World was very weak.......today the Soviet Union is diminished into Russia......and supposedly the EU stands together.......creating  lesser threat.....

Additionally those we have protected don't seem to want to pay a fair share.....and even are in open opposition to the US.......

NATO is no longer needed.....and those countries that oppose the US shouldn't get a dime in US aid........JMO

CL

[Pitcher]

With all due respect you are still bending things to support your views. You’re a hater, I get that but don’t even try to convince me that the Dems are correct on just about any issue because they are not.  My friend you are a  parrot and common sense would tell you that the Dem policies are not good for America, they just don’t work.   Our country wasn’t built by whinny, lazy entitled people but that’s what we have become under your party’s policies.   I guess I will have to be done with you because you have your views and I have mine,  I’m not going to change and you won’t either.  This has become a colossal waste of my time. I was mildly amused but now I’m just bored with it and your constant hatred of our President.  Have a nice life. BTW that’s not me giving you red rubies