Who Lost Iraq .. Bush Or Obama (1-2)?

[DinarThug]

CNN. Broadcasting Part One Of A Two Part Series - Stay Tuned For Part Two !

 

 

Who lost Iraq .. Bush or Obama (1-2)?

 Monday, 27 November 2017

 

 

 

Washington - Special

In a happy but short and misleading moment, most Americans stopped thinking about Iraq. After US troops withdrew in late 2011, President Barack Obama declared the country "sovereign, stable and self-reliant." 

After Iraq returned to chaos with a thief breaking into the country and taking over a third of its territory, questions arose about how to save Iraq. There was even a sharp debate: Who lost Iraq, Bush or Obama ?, which was presented to the magazine "Politico" in Washington, DC. 

Would Iraq have remained stable if Obama had left a small contingent of troops? Has Bush's "surge" truly stabilized the country? To answer these questions, Politeco collected 12 experts, including veterans of both departments - the State Department, the White House, the Pentagon and the CIA - in a seemingly simple idea: Who lost Iraq? 

The wounds of the Iraqis do not end 

Former US Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, who was in Iraq for the period 2005 to 2007, described the course Iraq had left when he left, and Iraq, which Obama inherited when he began his responsibilities in January 2009, saying: "It was a very difficult period. Especially in the aftermath of the bombing of the Samarra military mosque in 2006, sectarian violence has become a front and center - a very large number of dead and wounded, Shiites and Sunnis - and the rise of al Qaeda in Iraq. We have begun greater efforts to train Iraqi forces, resulting in substantial growth in their size and capabilities. The new Iraqi government, led by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, has shown greater willingness to use force against Shi'ite militias in Basra and Sadr City in Baghdad. In addition, the al-Qaeda abuses in Iraq against the Sunni community have begun to turn some Sunnis against them. With increased communication with the year, we started to have large numbers of them working with us. " 
"There are still some unresolved issues - there is no oil law to distribute resources, and there is no reform of the de-Baathification process," Khalilzad said. These were self-inflicted wounds, if you like - the mistakes we made, in my opinion, at first. But I think the Iraqis were moving in the right direction. You had a government that gained greater national legitimacy. There was greater Sunni involvement in the government compared to a previous period. By the end of the Bush administration, the level of violence had dropped significantly compared to 2006 and early 2007. " 
In response to a question, will Iraq reach what it was at the beginning of Obama's first term, and is he on a path that could lead him to a place where he can stand alone? The former US ambassador to Baghdad, Chris Hill, pointed out that al-Maliki was acting as if he had got everything, but his ties to the Sunnis on the ground were heading towards recession, which is the opposite of his relationship with the Sunni politicians in his government. 

The American generals 

Retired General Daniel Bulger, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and wrote the book "A General Account for the Iraq War and Afghanistan," says America lost Iraq because "the generals - like me - misused our great army. We train, organize and equip our combat to crush the traditional enemy forces, uniforms. Go in, kill 'em and get the hell out. In 2003, we tried to use more than 100,000 of our troops to defeat the established insurgency and build viable democratic institutions in a country that we barely understood. " 
"With the passage of time, we learned how to hunt down terrorist leaders. We got a good knowledge of Iraqi society and culture, but we never got a better level of knowledge of the besieged, besieged Iraqi people. They are the real losers of this difficult war, and they have been living in a state of agony and craziness for decades. The last to persecute them is the supporters of those who left us in the field when we retreated in 2011. " 

the Iraqian people 

US Ambassador to Iraq from 2010 to 2012, James Jeffrey, a visiting scholar at the Washington Institute for Peace, believes that "Iraq did not put, because if we agree on the idea of loss we should ask who lost Yugoslavia? Who lost Vietnam? But it must be recognized that "it is not a successful country," blaming "the Iraqi people, who overreacted with the American partner. The vast majority of the Iraqi population did not understand American or Western values or show a deep desire to see a national system similar to Western regimes.Despite this, the United States has been working for nearly eight years in an effort to achieve the above goal, without success in the end. " 

Tomorrow the second part of the investigation

 

link

[SnowGlobe7]

ouch

[Artitech]

Subversive obama lost these years will never get back! JMHO 

[sandfly]

no m did, we had too pull out. m would not do the paper work for the  protection of our men and women. that's why we had to pull out. 

[Floridian]

1 hour ago, sandfly said:

no m did, we had too pull out. m would not do the paper work for the  protection of our men and women. that's why we had to pull out. 

 

Yup!    That’s what they told us, but Maliki could’ve been “persuaded”,  if Obummer would have wanted to.    Instead, he wanted to keep his campaign promise.  

Another lousy decision!  

[King Bean]

19 minutes ago, Floridian said:

Yup!    That’s what they told us, but Maliki could’ve been “persuaded”,  if Obummer would have wanted to.    Instead, he wanted to keep his campaign promise.  

Another lousy decision!  

 

Totally agree with you and Sandfly. Maliki knew that if he could get the US forces out, he could embezzle and ransack his own country without interference. That's exactly what he did. Force the Vice President out, force Shabibi out, pilfer from CBI reserves and oil income, trample average citizens, collect under the table income from thousands of ghost soldiers on the payroll and get a cut while looking the other way as the Kurds did the same thing. No legit national leader would allow this without some benefit. And Obama wanted to wipe his hands clean in time for re-election. Yet here we are, 3 years after Abadi took 'control' and no accountability for Maliki and crew. All in all, it's a pathetic country.

Edited November 28, 2017 by King Bean

[bostonangler]

"Mission Accomplished"" I guess not.

 

B/A

[Shabibilicious]

I believe the wheels for the Iraq of today was set in motion way back in the Reagan days when he was arming both Iran and Iraq during which millions perished.  As always, just my opinion.

 

GO RV, then BV 

[DinarThug]

5 hours ago, DinarThug said:

Who lost Iraq .. Bush or Obama (1-2)?

 Monday, 27 November 2017

 

Comment By Frank ...

 

 

 

BUSH was shoved into Iraq.

Obama lost it by Immeasurable Carelessness and Imbecilic Stupidity.

TRUMP ................... Found it again.

History does not Lie ................. Only the Historians.

Frank 

[DF#1]

4 hours ago, sandfly said:

no m did, we had too pull out. m would not do the paper work for the  protection of our men and women. that's why we had to pull out. 

I don't think we've ever had any protection from them guys, nor do we need it. Our troops rule over there...go RV

[DinarThug]

34 minutes ago, Shabibilicious said:

I believe the wheels for the Iraq of today was set in motion way back in the Reagan days when he was arming both Iran and Iraq

 

Do U Mean The Same Reagan Guy Who Saw The US Hostages Getting Released By Iran The Day He Took Office ...

 

     

[Shabibilicious]

Just now, DinarThug said:

 

Do U Mean The Same Reagan Guy Who Saw The US Hostages Getting Released By Iran The Day He Took Office ...

 

     

 

Yep.....very same one.  He was a good president.......The first one I was old enough to vote for during his second term.  

 

GO RV, then BV

[DinarThug]

Part 2 ...

 

 

Who lost Iraq .. Bush or Obama (2-2)?

 Tuesday, 28 November 2017

 

 

Washington - Special 
In a happy but short and misleading moment, most Americans stopped thinking about Iraq. After US troops withdrew in late 2011, President Barack Obama declared the country "sovereign, stable and self-reliant." 
After Iraq returned to chaos with a thief breaking into the country and taking over a third of its territory, questions arose about how to save Iraq. There was even a sharp debate: Who lost Iraq, Bush or Obama ?, which was presented to the magazine "Politico" in Washington, DC. 
Yesterday we published the first part of reading "Writings" of this important investigation, and today we continue with the second and final part.

Shia ? 
"Saddam Hussein helped us yesterday to waste Iraq, and today we have helped deliver it to the Iranians - at least the capital, Baghdad and the south," says Thomas Rex, author and journalist of The Failure of the American Military Adventure in Iraq. But I think that the people who really lost Iraq are Shiite leaders of shortsightedness. They had the upper hand but favored the game of the weak. They could bring Sunnis to generous offers of semi-autonomous rule and respect for sectarian differences. Instead, as soon as Uncle Sam left the country, they took a series of steps to remove the Sunnis and thus encourage encouraging growth.

Maliki 
"The Iraq war was a bad strategic choice," said James Miller, the US undersecretary of defense for political affairs for the period 2012-2014, with weak implementation by the Bush administration. The administration has redoubled the error of the war it has chosen not to define an adequate strategy to be implemented. "A new strategy, starting in 2007 with the surge of US forces to achieve some sort of success with the help of Sunni tribal leaders, has helped a lot, but the fact remains that the instability caused by the war has enabled Iran and increased the global terrorist threat," he notes. 
Miller says that former Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki "failed to build on the security gains made by the US military through the establishment of a truly Iraqi national army, while Iraq needs to achieve a sustainable political balance includes the year." Achieving this will require continued and even increased support on the ground from the US military, and continued engagement by the president and senior members of his administration with the Iraqis.

Time is who will say? 
"Iraq was our war between 2003 and 2011, and with the support of US forces, the war today is the war of Iraqis," said John Negroponte, US ambassador to Iraq in 2004 and 2005 and director of national intelligence from 2005 to 2007. " There are still many patriotic Iraqis who want to die in defense of their country. It is clear that they can use our assistance in areas such as training, equipment, logistics, air support and intelligence. "Our nation has a long-term interest in the battle against Saddam in Iraq in order to remove the followers of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi from the political platform through which they can terrorize the rest of the Middle East and beyond." 
"But it would be much better for our position in the region if Iraq were able to do so with our proactive help, not just with the help of Iran," he said. Iraq has not yet established. "

Bush and Obama: partnership mistakes 
"President Bush made the mistake of invading Iraq in the first place," said Wendy Anderson, who held several senior positions in the Pentagon from 2010 to 2014. President Obama received his share of mistakes, as the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq in 2011 is very early. But Iraqis, especially former Prime Minister Maliki, let's not forget Sunnis, played bad roles. Neighboring countries have also used chaos in Iraq to advance their own interests. "

Obama's strategy was not complete in a confrontational confrontation in Iraq but he worked hard to recruit the region to support Prime Minister Haider Abadi. He continued to press the Iraqi leadership for internal political reconciliation, without which there would be nothing we would always do. He sees the organization of the Islamic state as a regional problem and not just an Iraqi and Syrian problem. " 
Anderson adds that her country can accelerate the pace of providing Iraqis with training and equipment, and strengthen their will to fight, to conclude saying "whether Iraq has been lost, we can not judge to wait and see."

Who lost Iraq .. Obama or Bush - the first section

link

[Shabibilicious]

What!!!?  Somebody negged me for voting for Reagan back in the day?  

 

GO RV, then BV

[boosterbglee]

Here's a greenie for you Shabs!   It was probably BA! 

[Shabibilicious]

1 minute ago, boosterbglee said:

Here's a greenie for you Shabs!   It was probably BA! 

 

Hahahaha.....Thanks.  

 

GO RV, then BV

[bostonangler]

51 minutes ago, DinarThug said:

 

Do U Mean The Same Reagan Guy Who Saw The US Hostages Getting Released By Iran The Day He Took Office ...

 

     

 

Iran-Contra.... Who made out in that deal?

 

B/A

[jmartin1145]

2 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

What!!!?  Somebody negged me for voting for Reagan back in the day?  

 

GO RV, then BV

I cant believe it either. I would bet it was bostonangler. Come on Boston, fess up.

[Half Crazy Runner]

3 hours ago, Shabibilicious said:

What!!!?  Somebody negged me for voting for Reagan back in the day?  

 

GO RV, then BV

 

That’s crazy!

+ 1 greenie from me! 

[Artitech]

4 hours ago, DF#1 said:

I don't think we've ever had any protection from them guys, nor do we need it. Our troops rule over there...go RV

 

35 minutes ago, Half Crazy Runner said:

 

That’s crazy!

+ 1 greenie from me! 

Completely agree, we shouldn’t even entertain the thought! If military commanders though there were any criminal conduct. They could address it through military code! If there were no criminal conduct by any military members determined by the commanders , you tell the Iraqis to go f themselves! That simple! All branches of services have very compentant investigations units! JMHO 

[blueskyline]

How else would Maliki been removed ???

[DinarThug]

10 hours ago, SnowGlobe7 said:

ouch

 

 

 

 

     

[jcfrag]

10 hours ago, sandfly said:

no m did, we had too pull out. m would not do the paper work for the  protection of our men and women. that's why we had to pull out. 

No surprise there!

[DinarThug]

Melania Trump Releases First White House Christmas Video – It’s Very Different from Michelle’s

First lady Melania Trump’s first White House Christmas video prominently included a nativity scene among other decorations on display at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, while Michelle Obama’s first Christmas video did not.

As reported by The Western Journal, this year’s White House Christmas theme is titled “Time-Honored Traditions.”

“The President, Barron, and I are very excited for our first Christmas in the White House,” said First Lady Melania Trump said in a release on Monday.

“I hope when visiting the People’s House this year, visitors will get a sense of being home for the holidays,” Trump stated. “On behalf of my husband and Barron, I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and joyous holiday season.”

On display in the East Wing of the White House is the first family’s Christmas card, which also includes the words “Merry Christmas.”

President Donald Trump often spoke on the campaign trail about his desire to bring the phrase back.

During their entire eight years in office, Barack and Michelle Obama never included “Merry Christmas” on their Christmas cards, opting instead for “Happy Holidays,” the New York Post reported.

Michelle’s first Christmas video also did not include the nativity scene in it.

At the Values Voter Summit last month, Trump said, “You know we’re getting near that beautiful Christmas season that people don’t talk about anymore. They don’t use the word Christmas because it’s not politically correct.”

“Well guess what, we’re saying Merry Christmas again,” the president said.

“We are stopping cold the attacks on Judeo-Christian values,” he pledged.

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/melania-trump-releases-first-white-house-christmas-video-different-michelles/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=conservativeupdate&utm_content=2017-11-28&utm_campaign=manualpost

[Karsten]

I would dare say that it was a Failure of Bush to finish the job this father started....Maliki filled a vacuum left by Saddam and between Maliki who wanted control and our loser who wanted IS to win. obama could have pushed for a Statis of Forces Agreement but he promised to get out......Creating another Vacuum and ISIS moved in. After that was accomplished and obama did his twice around the track Victory Tour as he pulled America out.....He left all the Amour loaded with Ammo and Keys  for the taking....Had a thinking man that was concerned about Iraq and the people left 10,000 US troops there to stop what happened maybe 100's of thousands of Innocent Christians, Yezitity and others wouldn't have been slaughtered.

 

Karsten