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12 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Markinsa,  IF you read that verse...logically it does not make sense.  You cannot be WITH someone and BE that someone at the exact same time.  Cannot be done.  Notice other translations... 

Other variations of rendering John 1:1 also exist:

 

 

To you it may not make sense because you don't want to believe it.  However, if you accept that and read the Bible with that knowledge everything becomes much clearer.  For instance in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve were sent out of the Garden, he referred to  himself as "Us."

 

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 

 

In other parts of the Bible God and Jesus are described as one and the same.

 

John 14:7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

 

John 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.” 13 So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not true.” 14 Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. 16 But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me. 17 Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.” 19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.

 

 

John 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

 

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

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43 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Wow...Synopsis you picked the ONLY bible in existance to say that Jesus is god himself...the other bibles however do not share that sentiment...

 

29 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

 

Also John 1.18....If NO man has seen God yet thousands saw Jesus....Jesus cannot be God

 

No matter how you slice and dice it, Jesus Christ HAS to be God Himself!

 

Good works just won't cut it.

 

Romans 4:4-5 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but as an obligation (something owed to him).

But to one who, not working [by the Law], trusts (believes fully) in Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (the standing acceptable to God).

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

Psalm 130:7-8 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

O Israel, hope in the Lord! For with the Lord there is mercy and loving-kindness, and with Him is plenteous redemption.

And He will redeem Israel from all their iniquities.

 

 

Hebrews 10:1-25 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

10 For since the Law has merely a rude outline (foreshadowing) of the good things to come—instead of fully expressing those things—it can never by offering the same sacrifices continually year after year make perfect those who approach [its altars].

For if it were otherwise, would [these sacrifices] not have stopped being offered? Since the worshipers had [a]once for all been cleansed, they would no longer have any guilt or consciousness of sin.

But [as it is] these sacrifices annually bring a fresh remembrance of sins [to be atoned for],

Because the blood of bulls and goats is powerless to take sins away.

5 Hence, when He [Christ] entered into the world, He said, Sacrifices and offerings You have not desired, but instead You have made ready a body for Me [to offer];

In burnt offerings and sin offerings You have taken no delight.

Then I said, Behold, here I am, coming to do Your will, O God—[to fulfill] what is written of Me in the volume of the Book.

8 When He said just before, You have neither desired, nor have You taken delight in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings—all of which are offered according to the Law—

He then went on to say, Behold, [here] I am, coming to do Your will. Thus He does away with and annuls the first (former) order [as a means of expiating sin] so that He might inaugurate and establish the second (latter) order.

10 And in accordance with this will [of God], we have been made holy (consecrated and sanctified) through the offering made once for all of the body of Jesus Christ (the Anointed One).

11 Furthermore, every [human] priest stands [at his altar of service] ministering daily, offering the same sacrifices over and over again, which never are able to strip [from every side of us] the sins [that envelop us] and take them away—

12 Whereas this One [Christ], after He had offered a single sacrifice for our sins [that shall avail] for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

13 Then to wait until His enemies should be made a stool beneath His feet.

14 For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy.

15 And also the Holy Spirit adds His testimony to us [in confirmation of this]. For having said,

16 This is the agreement (testament, covenant) that I will set up andconclude with them after those days, says the Lord: I will imprint My laws upon their hearts, and I will inscribe them on their minds (on their inmost thoughts and understanding),

17 He then goes on to say, And their sins and their lawbreaking I will remember no more.

1Now where there is absolute remission (forgiveness and cancellation of the penalty) of these [sins and lawbreaking], there is no longer any offering made to atone for sin.

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have full freedom and confidence to enter into the [Holy of] Holies [by the power and virtue] in the blood of Jesus,

20 By this fresh (new) and living way which He initiated and dedicated and opened for us through the separating curtain (veil of the Holy of Holies), that is, through His flesh,

21 And since we have [such] a great and wonderful and noble Priest [Who rules] over the house of God,

22 Let us all come forward and draw near with true (honest and sincere) hearts in unqualified assurance and absolute conviction engendered by faith (by [b]that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness), having our hearts sprinkled and purified from a guilty (evil) conscience and our bodies cleansed with pure water.

23 So let us seize and hold fast and retain without wavering the [c]hope we cherish and confess and our acknowledgement of it, for He Who promised is reliable (sure) and faithful to His word.

24 And let us consider and give [d]attentive, continuous care to watching over one another, studying how we may stir up (stimulate and incite) to love and helpful deeds and noble activities,

25 Not forsaking or neglecting to assemble together [as believers], as is the habit of some people, but admonishing (warning, urging, and encouraging) one another, and all the more faithfully as you see the day approaching.

Footnotes:

  1. Hebrews 10:2 G. Abbott-Smith, Manual Greek Lexicon.
  2. Hebrews 10:22 Alexander Souter, Pocket Lexicon.
  3. Hebrews 10:23 William Tyndale, The Tyndale Bible, Miles Coverdale, The Coverdale Bible, and others.
  4. Hebrews 10:24 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

John 10:24-33Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.

25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].

26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].

27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to ****** them out of My hand.

29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to ****** [them] out of the Father’s hand.

30 I and the Father are One.

31 Again the Jews [a]brought up stones to stone Him.

32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

33 The Jews replied, We are not going to stone You for a good act, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere [b]Man, make Yourself [out to be] God.

Footnotes:

  1. John 10:31 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.
  2. John 10:33 Capitalized because of what He is, the spotless Son of God, not what the speaker may have thought He was.
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

John 14Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

14 Do not let your hearts be troubled (distressed, agitated). You believe in and adhere to and trust in and rely on God; believe in and adhere to and trust in and rely also on Me.

In My Father’s house there are many dwelling places (homes). If it were not so, I would have told you; for I am going away to prepare a place for you.

And when (if) I go and make ready a place for you, I will come back again and will take you to Myself, that where I am you may be also.

And [to the place] where I am going, you know the way.

Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You are going, so how can we know the way?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.

If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen Him.

Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to see the Father—that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.

9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the ([a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father’s name convince you.]

12 I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, if anyone steadfastly believes in Me, he will himself be able to do the things that I do; and he will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father.

13 And I will do [I Myself will grant] whatever you ask in My Name [as [b]presenting all that I Am], so that the Father may be glorified andextolled in (through) the Son.

14 [Yes] I will grant [I Myself will do for you] whatever you shall ask in My Name [as [c]presenting all that I Am].

15 If you [really] love Me, you will keep (obey) My commands.

16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that He may remain with you forever—

17 The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you.

18 I will not leave you as orphans [comfortless, desolate, bereaved, forlorn, helpless]; I will come [back] to you.

19 Just a little while now, and the world will not see Me any more, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.

20 At that time [when that day comes] you will know [for yourselves] that I am in My Father, and you [are] in Me, and I [am] in you.

21 The person who has My commands and keeps them is the one who [really] loves Me; and whoever [really] loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I [too] will love him and will show (reveal, manifest) Myself to him. [I will let Myself be clearly seen by him and make Myself real to him.]

22 Judas, not Iscariot, asked Him, Lord, how is it that You will reveal Yourself [make Yourself real] to us and not to the world?

23 Jesus answered, If a person [really] loves Me, he will keep My word [obey My teaching]; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (abode, special dwelling place) with him.

24 Anyone who does not [really] love Me does not observe and obey My teaching. And the teaching which you hear and heed is not Mine, but [comes] from the Father Who sent Me.

25 I have told you these things while I am still with you.

26 But the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will cause you to recall (will remind you of, bring to your remembrance) everything I have told you.

27 Peace I leave with you; My [own] peace I now give and bequeath to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. [Stop allowing yourselves to be agitated and disturbed; and do not permit yourselves to be fearful and intimidated and cowardly and unsettled.]

28 You heard Me tell you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you [really] loved Me, you would have been glad, because I am going to the Father; for the Father is greater and mightier than I am.

29 And now I have told you [this] before it occurs, so that when it does take place you may believe and have faith in and rely on Me.

30 I will not talk with you much more, for the prince (evil genius, ruler) of the world is coming. And he has no claim on Me. [He has nothing in common with Me; there is nothing in Me that belongs to him, and he has no power over Me.]

31 But [[d]Satan is coming and] I do as the Father has commanded Me, so that the world may know (be convinced) that I love the Father and that I do only what the Father has instructed Me to do. [I act in full agreement with His orders.] Rise, let us go away from here.

Footnotes:

  1. John 14:10 Several ancient manuscripts read “His works.”
  2. John 14:13 Hermann Cremer, Biblico-Theological Lexicon.
  3. John 14:14 Hermann Cremer, Biblico-Theological Lexicon.
  4. John 14:31 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies.

John 8:34-59 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

34 Jesus answered them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, Whoever commits and practices sin is the slave of sin.

35 Now a slave does not remain in a household permanently (forever); the son [of the house] does remain forever.

36 So if the Son liberates you [makes you free men], then you are really and unquestionably free.

37 [Yes] I know that you are Abraham’s offspring; yet you plan to kill Me, because My word has no entrance (makes no progress, does not find any place) in you.

38 I tell the things which I have seen and learned at My Father’s side, and your actions also reflect what you have heard and learned from your father.

39 They retorted, Abraham is our father. Jesus said, If you were [truly] Abraham’s children, then you would do the works of Abraham [follow his example, do as Abraham did].

40 But now [instead] you are wanting and seeking to kill Me, a Man Who has told you the truth which I have heard from God. This is not the way Abraham acted.

41 You are doing the works of your [own] father. They said to Him, We are not illegitimate children and born out of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love Me andrespect Me and welcome Me gladly, for I proceeded (came forth) from God [out of His very presence]. I did not even come on My own authority or of My own accord (as self-appointed); but He sent Me.

43 Why do you misunderstand what I say? It is because you are unable to hear what I am saying. [You cannot bear to listen to My message; your ears are shut to My teaching.]

44 You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires [which are characteristic] of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar [himself] and the father of lies and of all that is false.

45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me [do not trust Me, do not rely on Me, or adhere to Me].

46 Who of you convicts Me of wrongdoing or finds Me guilty of sin? Then if I speak truth, why do you not believe Me [trust Me, rely on, and adhere to Me]?

47 Whoever is of God listens to God. [Those who belong to God hear the words of God.] This is the reason that you do not listen [to those words, to Me]: because you do not belong to God and are not of God or in harmony with Him.

48 The Jews answered Him, Are we not right when we say You are a Samaritan and that You have a demon [that You are under the power of an evil spirit]?

49 Jesus answered, I am not possessed by a demon. On the contrary, I honor and reverence My Father and you dishonor (despise, vilify, and scorn) Me.

50 However, I am not in search of honor for Myself. [I do not seek and am not aiming for My own glory.] There is One Who [looks after that; He] seeks [My glory], and He is the Judge.

51 I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, if anyone observes My teaching [lives in accordance with My message, keeps My word], he will by no means ever see and experience death.

52 The Jews said to Him, Now we know that You are under the power of a demon ([a]insane). Abraham died, and also the prophets, yet You say, If a man keeps My word, he will never taste of death into all eternity.

53 Are You greater than our father Abraham? He died, and all the prophets died! Who do You make Yourself out to be?

54 Jesus answered, If I were to glorify Myself (magnify, praise, and honor Myself), I would have no real glory, for My glory would be nothing andworthless. [My honor must come to Me from My Father.] It is My Father Who glorifies Me [Who extols Me, magnifies, and praises Me], of Whom you say that He is your God.

55 Yet you do not know Him or recognize Him and are not acquainted with Him, but I know Him. If I should say that I do not know Him, I would be a liar like you. But I know Him and keep His word [obey His teachings, am faithful to His message].

56 Your forefather Abraham was extremely happy at the hope andprospect of seeing My day (My incarnation); and he did see it and was delighted.

57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?

58 Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I Am.

59 So they took up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus, by mixing with the crowd, concealed Himself and went out of the temple [[b]enclosure].

Footnotes:

  1. John 8:52 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
  2. John 8:59 Richard Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament.
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

1 Corinthians 15:3-4Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

For I passed on to you first of all what I also had received, that Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for our sins in accordance with [what] the Scriptures [foretold],

That He was buried, that He arose on the third day as the Scriptures foretold,

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

I hold in peace having received Jesus Christ that I am redeemed by the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross - having died as a man - yet lives forever as the Only Son of God and Jesus Christ Himself being very God Himself who always has been, always is, and always will be. No matter what accurate version of the Bible is used. Any version that obscures Jesus Christ as God is no translation and should summarily be discarded. There is no possible way for salvation other than Jesus Christ himself taking up the cross and paying the penalty for all mankind's sin.

 

 

Isaiah 52:13-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Exalted Servant

13 Behold, My servant will prosper,
He will be high and lifted up and [a]greatly exalted.
14 Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
So His appearance was marred more than any man
And His form more than the sons of men.
15 Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;
For what had not been told them they will see,
And what they had not heard they will understand.

Footnotes:

  1. Isaiah 52:13 Or very high

John 3:14-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever [a]believes will in Him have eternal life.

Footnotes:

  1. John 3:15 Or believes in Him will have eternal life

 

I can understand works based theology is very appealing yet entirely wrong. Salvation and the physical life on this earth is all for HIS Glory and in no way to justify ourselves.

 

Isaiah 43:25Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

25 I, even I, am He Who blots out and cancels your transgressions, for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins.

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

Ezekiel 36:22-32 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Israel to Be Renewed for His Name’s Sake

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23 I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord,” declares the Lord God, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28 You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29 Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not [a]bring a famine on you. 30 I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!”

Footnotes:

  1. Ezekiel 36:29 Lit put
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

 

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1 minute ago, Botzwana said:

You guys gotta stick to one or two verses when replying.  When you quote the whole bible, it takes alot of my time to respond.  

Let´s go with your first point though.  Let US....If I was with my wife and 6 friends from out of town and I said let us go to the movies.....It could mean all 8 of us, it could mean only my wife and I etc.  Let US does not point to any kind of Trinity or Godship.  God COULD have been talking to the angels.  Millions and millions of angels.  Let US....

 

Your John 14.....I look like my father.  Alot.  People can tell we are father and son.  My Dad and I also had the same ideas and purpose in life.  However that does not make me my father.  It says right there.  The father SENT me.  If a boss sends a coworker to pick up a deli sandwich....who is the more powerful?  The one sending no?  God is more powerful than Jesus and clearly not him.  

 John 8....I concede that Jesus was the first thing God created.  That means he was WELL around before Abraham, or the founding of the world.  That does not make him God though.  Am I god if I was born before my son?  OF course not.

 

Ok, I'm not going to force it down your throat, if you want to take that route that's your choice.  I read the Word, and that's what I get, that's what my Spirit and my Soul are telling me. That Jesus is God.  It doesn't make any sense otherwise.  JMO.

 

.

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Titus 2:11-15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 For the grace of God has appeared, [a]bringing salvation to all men,12 [b]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of [c]our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

15 These things speak and exhort and reprove with all [d]authority. Let no one disregard you.

Footnotes:

  1. Titus 2:11 Or to all men, bringing
  2. Titus 2:12 Or disciplining
  3. Titus 2:13 Or the great God and our Savior
  4. Titus 2:15 Lit command

The intent of the prolific posts is not to obscure (or to impress or condescend or whatever) but to show there is overwhelming support for who Jesus Christ was, is, and always will be and to respond to the statements that have been made.

 

How does one go verse by verse in that respect?

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8 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Why wouldn´t it make sense?  What is the difficult part here?  

 

Synopsis, I do not feel there is overwhelming support system" rel="">support.  Jesus IS the savior...And he is Godlike.  Heck, he can walk on water.  My point of contention is that he is not God the all powerful.  He is exactly what he says he is.  God´s Son.  

 

Because Jesus is the spoken Word of God!  It is like the three states of water, Ice, Water and Liquid,  Height Width Length,  Body, Soul, Spirit.  The whole Bible is talking about God/Jesus!!!  Who was Moses writing about????

 

39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from men; 42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

 

Look right here, the first three verses of Genesis, God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, the Word of God!  The Bible is awesome!

 

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Synopsis, I do not feel there is overwhelming support system" rel="">support.  Jesus IS the savior...And he is Godlike.  Heck, he can walk on water.  My point of contention is that he is not God the all powerful.  He is exactly what he says he is.  God´s Son.  

Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

 

Botzwana, I do not want to lock horns with You. However, it is hard to overlook gaps in what you have presented. Please consider:

 

Colossians 1:15-23New American Standard Bible (NASB)

15 [a]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16 For [b]by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [c]is before all things, and in Him all things [d]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19 For [e]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [f]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [g]heaven.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in [h]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, [i]was made a [j]minister.

Footnotes:

  1. Colossians 1:15 Lit Who is
  2. Colossians 1:16 Or in
  3. Colossians 1:17 Or has existed prior to
  4. Colossians 1:17 Or endure
  5. Colossians 1:19 Or all the fullness was pleased to dwell
  6. Colossians 1:19 I.e. fullness of deity
  7. Colossians 1:20 Lit the heavens
  8. Colossians 1:23 Or in faith
  9. Colossians 1:23 Lit became
  10. Colossians 1:23 Or servant
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

 

So, Jesus Christ did create all things.

 

As I have said before, I have abandoned intellect since I believe the nature and character of Jesus Christ is not revealed under the intellectual contest of men. I'll make one more quote:

 

Philippians 2:5-11New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Have this attitude [a]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [b]grasped, but [c]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [d]on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Footnotes:

  1. Philippians 2:5 Or among
  2. Philippians 2:6 I.e. utilized or asserted
  3. Philippians 2:7 I.e. laid aside His privileges
  4. Philippians 2:8 Lit of
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation

 

My personal belief is:

  • If Jesus Christ is not God.
  • If Jesus Christ did not appear as a man on earth.
  • If Jesus Christ did not die on the cross.
  • If Jesus Christ did not resurrect.
  • If Jesus Christ did not ascend to the right hand of the Father.

Then I will go to hell eternally since I have violate an entirely Holy God who is all Loving by disobeying HIM. An entirely Holy God would not allow a defiled person like myself to be in HIS Holy presence. How would a Holy and Loving God allow me to defile others in HIS presence? Wouldn't HE HIMSELF have to make me Holy through HIS Son Jesus Christ who is very God in the flesh (human form) and in so doing show HE alone is Love?

 

So, I'll quit now since I wanted to express my perspective but I do not want to be argumentative.

 

Thank You for responding.

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Everyone take this for what it is. As for the men of faith I say consider what the devil has done here.

Matthew 7: 6

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

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Jesus is God incarnate. The disciples saw him as such. Jesus said he was God. The Pharisees did not believe him. They thought he was demon possesed. They could not know him because they did not believe. Jesus also said that if a person does not believe him they won't believe anyone else either who follows him. I have a JW friend and he tried to tell me that Jesus is not big G but God showed me a story in the bible where Jesus healed the blind man and the Pharisees did not believe he was God but he told them he was and he still is. That's why Christians worship Jesus. Jesus is the Word. He is Lord. 

Edited by Rmc10
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Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (NIV)

 

 

John 8:58New King James Version (NKJV)

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

 

That says it all right there and there are many more instances where Jesus said he is equal to GOD. I believe him. 

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17 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Ok one person at a time.  

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and theSpirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

 

Nowhere in that verse is Jesus mentioned.  At BEST you might have two.  God and the spirit of God.  IF the spirit of God is a person and apart of the godhead of the Trinity...WHAT is it´s name?  God has a name.  Jehovah.  The son has a name, Jesus.  Yet nowhere in the Bible does this third entity have a name.  It must not be a spirit being.  When the Christian martyr Stephen was given a miraculous heavenly vision, he saw only two persons, not three. 

 

 

Com'on Botzwana, You gotta have faith!  "Let there be light" is the Word of God! Jesus is the Word of God! The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit! So You have God the Father, The Holy Spirit and the Son!  Verse 1, Verse 2 and Verse 3. That's sweet!

 

.

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8 hours ago, Botzwana said:

Synopsis-what is locking horns to you?  no one is cussing here or calling someone a devil.  

 

To clarify, "locking horns" is a vernacular for sparring or to test the opponents defensive and offensive skills either physically or verbally. I in no way meant the term to refer to a devil. The reasons I say that are as follows:

 

1 Timothy 6:20-21 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

20 O Timothy, guard and keep the deposit entrusted [to you]! Turn away from the irreverent babble and godless chatter, with the vain and empty and worldly phrases, and the subtleties and the contradictions in what is falsely called knowledge and spiritual illumination.

21 [For] by making such profession some have erred (missed the mark) as regards the faith. Grace (divine favor and blessing) be with you all! Amen (so be it).

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

2 Timothy 2:14-26Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

14 Remind [the people] of these facts and [solemnly] charge them in the presence of the Lord to avoid petty controversy over words, which does no good but upsets and undermines the faith of the hearers.

15 Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

16 But avoid all empty (vain, useless, idle) talk, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness.

17 And their teaching [will devour; it] will eat its way like cancer or spread like gangrene. So it is with Hymenaeus and Philetus,

18 Who have missed the mark and swerved from the truth by arguing that the resurrection has already taken place. They are undermining the faith of some.

19 But the firm foundation of (laid by) God stands, sure and unshaken, bearing this seal (inscription): The Lord knows those who are His, and, Let everyone who names [himself by] the name of the Lord give up all iniquity and stand aloof from it.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also [utensils] of wood and earthenware, and some for honorable andnoble [use] and some for menial and ignoble [use].

21 So whoever cleanses himself [from what is ignoble and unclean, who separates himself from contact with contaminating and corrupting influences] will [then himself] be a vessel set apart and useful for honorable and noble purposes, consecrated and profitable to the Master, fit and ready for any good work.

22 Shun youthful lusts and flee from them, and aim at and pursue righteousness (all that is virtuous and good, right living, conformity to the will of God in thought, word, and deed); [and aim at and pursue] faith, love, [and] peace (harmony and concord with others) in fellowship with all [Christians], who call upon the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But refuse (shut your mind against, have nothing to do with) trifling (ill-informed, unedifying, stupid) controversies over ignorant questionings, for you know that they foster strife and breed quarrels.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome (fighting and contending). Instead, he must be kindly to everyone and mild-tempered [preserving the bond of peace]; he must be a skilled and suitable teacher, patient and forbearing and willing to suffer wrong.

25 He must correct his opponents with courtesy and gentleness, in the hope that God may grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth [that they will perceive and recognize and become accurately acquainted with and acknowledge it],

26 And that they may come to their senses [and] escape out of the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him, [henceforth] to do His [God’s] will.

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

Titus 3:9-11Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

But avoid stupid and foolish controversies and genealogies and dissensions and wrangling about the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile.

10 [As for] a man who is factious [a heretical sectarian and cause of divisions], after admonishing him a first and second time, reject [him from your fellowship and have nothing more to do with him],

11 Well aware that such a person has utterly changed (is perverted and corrupted); he goes on sinning [though he] is convicted of guilt and self-condemned.

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

 

The reason for quoting these verses is in direct reference to my behaviors as a basis not to quarrel or to be argumentative.

 

7 hours ago, Botzwana said:

I guess the debate is over.

 

Yep. With me at least. I mentioned earlier:

 

As I have said before, I have abandoned intellect since I believe the nature and character of Jesus Christ is not revealed under the intellectual contest of men. 

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 I still think you are a good person Botz but Christians believe differently than JWs when it comes to Jesus. Jesus also is called Lord in the New Test. There are many names for God and Jehova is one, so is Yaweh, Lord, Master, ect., There are many times where Jesus is equated to God in the bible. We can agree to disagree and I still respect you. Just know that I can't just stay silent though if someone tells me Jesus isn't equal to God the Father. He is God the Son. His spirit is the Holy Spirit. He died for our sins and rose again so we can spend eternity with him. That's my believe and scripture backs it up. My hubby's best friends parents are JWs so I don't knock anyone who is but I feel JWS in general misinterpret scripture from it's true meaning. My husband grew up Pentacostal and I grew up Baptist. We don't have the same beliefs on everything but we as Christians have one main belief as the main thing and it focuses around the diety and life of Christ. Catholic Christians even have some different beliefs about things when it comes to scripture and they even have added books of the bible but they also believe in the diety of Christ. I also have a friend who is a Christian but her damily celebrates Jewish holidays and doesn't eat pork things like that. We all do have our own beliefs with things but I cannot deny Jesus or he will deny me. It says that in his word and as a Christian I am to follow him. LGD is very passionate. I can tell from his writings and he even says sometimes his emotions get the best of him. You are very passionate about your beliefs and that's okay as well. There is a verse in the bible that talks about swords sharpening one another and a healthy debate is good but always know when you debate with a Christian about the diety of Christ it usually ends with someone being offended because that is the center of our belief system and a Christian will not bend but will stand firm when it comes to that belief. JFYI No harm meant by this post in any way. 

Edited by Rmc10
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7 minutes ago, Rmc10 said:

 I still think you are a good person Botz but Christians believe differently than JWs when it comes to Jesus. Jesus also is called Lord in the New Test. There are many names for God and Jehova is one, so is Yaweh, Lord, Master, ect., There are many times where Jesus is equated to God in the bible. We can agree to disagree and I still respect you. Just know that I can't just stay silent though if someone tells me Jesus isn't equal to God the Father. He is God the Son. His spirit is the Holy Spirit. He died for our sins and rose again so we can spend eternity with him. That's my believe and scripture backs it up. My hubby's best friends parents are JWs so I don't knock anyone who is but I feel JWS in general misinterpret scripture from it's true meaning. My husband grew up Pentacostal and I grew up Baptist. We don't have the same beliefs on everything but we as Christians have one main belief as the main thing and it focuses around the diety and life of Christ. Catholic Christians even have some different beliefs about things when it comes to scripture and they even have added books of the bible but they also believe in the diety of Christ. I also have a friend who is a Christian but her damily celebrates Jewish holidays and doesn't eat pork things like that. We all do have our own beliefs with things but I cannot deny Jesus or he will deny me. It says that in his word and as a Christian I am to follow him. LGD is very passionate. I can tell from his writings and he even says sometimes his emotions get the best of him. You are very passionate about your beliefs and that's okay as well. There is a verse in the bible that talks about swords sharpening one another and a healthy debate is good but always know when you debate with a Christian about the diety of Christ it usually ends with someone being offended because that is the center of our belief system and a Christian will not bend but will stand firm when it comes to that belief. JFYI No harm meant by this post in any way. 

 

Spot on.....I was "raised" Baptist and currently a member of a Pentacostal church. The subject of "non-essential" tenants and denominational differences  is a hot button right now. The Lord is drawing us together as a unified body for the battle ahead. That unified body will once again be based on the God-man, "Christ crucified". Praise God!!!

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There are two places I like to point to when I am discussing JESUS being GOD. 

 

Isaiah 7:14 

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.(Which means "God with us")

 

Matthew 1:23

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“Behold! The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel” (which means, “God withus”). 24When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and embraced Mary as his wife.…

 

 

Both the Old and New Testaments confirm JESUS is GOD with us. 

 

My other point is that only GOD HIMSELF is the only one who has the authority to add or take away from HIS Word. JESUS used His Authority as GOD to give a NEW Commandment. If HE was not GOD, HE would NOT have the authority to issue a NEW Command.

John 13:34 Jesus said:

33Little children, I am with you only a little while longer. You will look for Me, and as I said to the Jews, so now I say to you: ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ 34A new commandment I give you:Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”…

when HE did this, HE added to the 2nd Greatest commandment :

30and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.” 32

Leviticus 19:18
'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."

That last quote tells you who spoke this....The LORD.

 

JESUS is LORD to the glory of the FATHER.

 

And with that in mind and just to remind all of us when we are chatting with each other, let us do so in loving kindness:

 

Romans 14:10-12

The Law of Liberty
10Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written: “As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God.” 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.…

Cross References
Isaiah 45:23
"I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
 

John 13:32…

32If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify the Son in Himself—and will glorify Him at once. 

 

And this verse makes it clear not only who JESUS is but in a spiritual nutshell clearly defines the HOLY TRINITY and the 3 (GOD the FATHER, GOD the SON, and GOD the HOLY SPIRIT) being ONE.

Isaiah 9:6

King James Version
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Obviously "child and son" are JESUS. And as the Bible says HE will rule. HIS name "Counseller" is one of the names JESUS used to tell the Disciples who HE was sending to be with them while HE goes to Heaven. "Comforter" was the other name. That is the HOLY SPIRIT. And no denying who "Mighty God, Everlasting Father" is. YAHWEH GOD the FATHER....And then, I love this just in case any one has any doubts Isaiah gives us the last name or title AFTER listing those other names.

 "Prince of Peace".

Like a nail in the coffin of doubt....Who are all of these that Isaiah listed? Why of course, they are the Prince of Peace. Thus the PERSON of GOD are ALL THREE. And clearly by this verse, ALL are ONE GOD!!!  

 

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18 minutes ago, keylime said:

There are two places I like to point to when I am discussing JESUS being GOD. 

 

Isaiah 7:14 

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.(Which means "God with us")

 

Matthew 1:23

22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“Behold! The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call Him Immanuel” (which means, “God withus”). 24When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and embraced Mary as his wife.…

 

 

Both the Old and New Testaments confirm JESUS is GOD with us. 

 

My other point is that only GOD HIMSELF is the only one who has the authority to add or take away from HIS Word. JESUS used His Authority as GOD to give a NEW Commandment. If HE was not GOD, HE would NOT have the authority to issue a NEW Command.

John 13:34 Jesus said:

33Little children, I am with you only a little while longer. You will look for Me, and as I said to the Jews, so now I say to you: ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ 34A new commandment I give you:Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”…

when HE did this, HE added to the 2nd Greatest commandment :

30and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.” 32

Leviticus 19:18
'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."

That last quote tells you who spoke this....The LORD.

 

JESUS is LORD to the glory of the FATHER.

 

And with that in mind and just to remind all of us when we are chatting with each other, let us do so in loving kindness:

 

Romans 14:10-12

The Law of Liberty
10Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written: “As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God.” 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.…

Cross References
Isaiah 45:23
"I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
 

John 13:32…

32If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify the Son in Himself—and will glorify Him at once. 

 

And this verse makes it clear not only who JESUS is but in a spiritual nutshell clearly defines the HOLY TRINITY and the 3 (GOD the FATHER, GOD the SON, and GOD the HOLY SPIRIT) being ONE.

Isaiah 9:6

King James Version
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Obviously "child and son" are JESUS. And as the Bible says HE will rule. HIS name "Counseller" is one of the names JESUS used to tell the Disciples who HE was sending to be with them while HE goes to Heaven. "Comforter" was the other name. That is the HOLY SPIRIT. And no denying who "Mighty God, Everlasting Father" is. YAHWEH GOD the FATHER....And then, I love this just in case any one has any doubts Isaiah gives us the last name or title AFTER listing those other names.

 "Prince of Peace".

Like a nail in the coffin of doubt....Who are all of these that Isaiah listed? Why of course, they are the Prince of Peace. Thus the PERSON of GOD are ALL THREE. And clearly by this verse, ALL are ONE GOD!!!  

 

So to reiterate...

What  does Isaiah call the "son/child" who is given? What is HIS name?  Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace!

What? How can this be? How can the SON be called all of these? How can the Son or Child's name be Counsellor(HOLY SPIRIT)? How can the Child's name be the Mighty God, Everlasting Father(YAHWEH)? How can the Child's name be Prince of Peace(JESUS)?

HOW?

I don't know. But clearly it is.

So rather than take mans word for it. I will take God's word for it. And rest my faith in that.

Romans 3:3,4

3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? 4Absolutely not!Let God be true and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that You may be justified in Your words,and prevail in Your judgments.” 

Because when I go before JESUS I don't want HIM to ask me..."You read it in my word. How come you didn't believe it?" No. No. NO!

I want HIM to say, "Enter into my rest, good and faithful servant. You had ears and heard. You had eyes and saw. You had a heart and believed. WELL DONE!!!"

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Love is passage from the Gospel of John chapter 17......

 

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am,and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

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On 8/29/2017 at 1:13 AM, ladyGrace'sDaddy said:

I really do think that we're in the Jubilee yr now. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

How many Jubilee years are there? Can any year be a Jubilee year? Can we have 15 years in a row be a Jubilee year? Inquiring minds wants to know what constitutes a Jubilee year!

Edited by Theseus
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5 hours ago, Rmc10 said:

 I still think you are a good person Botz but Christians believe differently than JWs when it comes to Jesus. Jesus also is called Lord in the New Test. There are many names for God and Jehova is one, so is Yaweh, Lord, Master, ect., There are many times where Jesus is equated to God in the bible. We can agree to disagree and I still respect you. Just know that I can't just stay silent though if someone tells me Jesus isn't equal to God the Father. He is God the Son. His spirit is the Holy Spirit. He died for our sins and rose again so we can spend eternity with him. That's my believe and scripture backs it up. My hubby's best friends parents are JWs so I don't knock anyone who is but I feel JWS in general misinterpret scripture from it's true meaning. My husband grew up Pentacostal and I grew up Baptist. We don't have the same beliefs on everything but we as Christians have one main belief as the main thing and it focuses around the diety and life of Christ. Catholic Christians even have some different beliefs about things when it comes to scripture and they even have added books of the bible but they also believe in the diety of Christ. I also have a friend who is a Christian but her damily celebrates Jewish holidays and doesn't eat pork things like that. We all do have our own beliefs with things but I cannot deny Jesus or he will deny me. It says that in his word and as a Christian I am to follow him. LGD is very passionate. I can tell from his writings and he even says sometimes his emotions get the best of him. You are very passionate about your beliefs and that's okay as well. There is a verse in the bible that talks about swords sharpening one another and a healthy debate is good but always know when you debate with a Christian about the diety of Christ it usually ends with someone being offended because that is the center of our belief system and a Christian will not bend but will stand firm when it comes to that belief. JFYI No harm meant by this post in any way. 

One thing that you doth forget is the period in which the translation into English occurred (see what I did there!). At the time the head of a Noble family was called Lord and the wife was called Lady. This stuck when referring to nobility and greater persons. Even sometimes when speaking to a King they were addressed as Lord. However, the Bible in all actuality is unclear in the hierarchical nature to which Jesus is and through time this confusion has caused great controversy. Even the Holy Mother Mary is called/referred to her title as  Lady. While her heirarchical structure within the Bible is not as confusing, as parents of Nobles were also referred the same title passed down to their children. The Egg Theory as to the Holy Trinity being one in the same does not hold water nor does the male being Father/Son theory when it comes down to it. As Botz pointed out many passages point to Jesus and God being to separate entities. However, the ones he did not point out were those in which Jesus prays and is asked who he is praying to. His reply is always his Father. Second Jesus himself said he would be at the right hand of his father. These passages themselves lend to the confusion is Jesus and God one in the same. Now some will argue that Jesus spoke in parables when he taught. Yes, the keyword here is "taught". As there is a passage when Jesus tells his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy a sword. This is the literal word of Jesus and no parable has been associated with this passage in the Garden at a time when Jesus was not teaching either informally or formally. While there are Codices in various libraries in the Middle East, the Dead Sea scrolls have been controversial in some ways and very few have even heard of the controversies that have arisen from them as more scrolls have been recovered from that time period. Other books have come to light like the Book of Judas and the Book of Mariam also shed controversy on the image of Jesus. From all of the books we have been able to clearly ascertain, Jesus was a man in the first century. He inspired the world and was able to perform miracles of the Church. What no one knows with 100% certainty given the verses as anecdotal evidence, Jesus is or was a God while he walked the Earth in the form of a man. This is where faith comes into play. Faith or the belief that Jesus was God in human form is not wrong nor is the belief given the verses Jesus was the Son of God but not God himself is also correct. The only way to verify whether or not Jesus was God in the flesh is witness with our own eyes. However, this is only possible when we are removed from our flesh and our conscious/spirit travels to Heaven and meet him or them. I know there is a place we call Heaven and a Hell and I will leave it at that.

When the evidence is put forth in an objective manner the evidence holds true for both sides which is why Faith is needed to answer the question. You either believe or you do not  Jesus is God in this circumstance. 

Edited by Theseus
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58 minutes ago, Theseus said:

How many Jubilee years are there? Can any year be a Jubilee year? Can we have 15 years in a row be a Jubilee year? Inquiring minds wants to know what constitutes a Jubilee year!

The Jubilee (Hebrew: יובל‎ yūḇāl) year is the year at the end of seven cycles of shmita (Sabbatical years), which are every seven years, and according to Biblical regulations had a special impact on the ownership and management of land in the Land of Israel; there is some debate whether it was the 49th year (the last year of seven sabbaticals)

Thus, this year is considered a Jubilee year. In 50 years it will be another Jubilee year and so on. Every seventh year is shmita (Sabbatical year).2016 was a shmita year and the seventh of seven shmitas since the last Jubilee. Of course there is always debate as to the exactness of these even amongst Rabbinical Scholars. 

What is interesting is in the 1967 6th day war, Israel, by defending itself, gained back all of Jerusalem including the mount where Solomon's temple stood. That was the year of Jubilee. 

http://www.truebibleteaching.com/bible-prophecy-and-world-events-today/967-israel’s-jubilee-years-1917,1967-and-2017.html

The Jubilee Year of 1917, which saw the liberation of the land from Ottoman Turk rule after hundreds of years, and the subsequent Jubilee Year of 1967, which saw the liberation of the city of Jerusalem, where great signs to all True Bible Students of the approaching coming of Christ as they fulfilled Bible Prophecy.  The year 2016 was the beginning of the next Jubilee period, and we now contemplate what this Jubilee period might bring. This first year 2016-17 is the year of release or as it is in the Hebrew 'Shmita'.

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50 minutes ago, Botzwana said:

Well I go to Numbers 23:19 that says clearly that God is not a man.  Jesus WAS a man.  Therefore Jesus cannot be God.

Actually, the whole verse reads

Numbers 23:19 says:

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

That verse occurs when Jesus had not appeared on earth in human form. So yes, at the time of this being written God is/was not a man that He should lie. Neither was He at that time the son of man that he should repent....But all that changed when JESUS came to earth and even used the title "Son of Man"...to reference Himself thus drawing attention to that very verse because GOD the SON JESUS did not have to repent because HE was perfect. Neither did HE lie as all men do because HE was GOD as man who didn't lie. 

Again, you completely discount the prophet prophesying what the "Son" will be and what his names will be which tells you all you need to know about who JESUS is.

Isaiah 7:14, and Isaiah 9:6.....Unless your Bible doesn't have these verses...there is no disputing JESUS is GOD.

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