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rockfl9
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37 minutes ago, rockfl9 said:

Caz , by always evading the question  and resorting to trivial remarks only proves you don't have a clue.    But for some reason you wont give up (ego).   We  have brought up some points that have sound financial and banking basis ... I think you realize that .. you cant refute them or you would at least try .  A large RV of the dinar would put the world currency market into chaos  which the   Gurus  are calling the GCR.  I call it BUNK.

Rockfl9, can you help Markinsa on her post with the links.  I can't get to her until later.  Thanks

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Why can't any of you respect each other's views without getting into childish argument?  If you go by just the numbers that you read there is a grim picture. If you go by the history of Iraq, the potential of Iraq, all of the mis leading articles or contradictory articles of Iraq and all of the countries and companies willing to help Iraq you can tell there is a possibility of a revaluation of their currency at some point in the future. You have to look at the whole picture. I can guarantee you nobody would have anything to do with Iraq if they were the average war torn third world country. It seems to me that if they were going to lop they would have done that already. Why add all the security features to their worthless currency? Ive already told you I know nothing about economics to the level that is involved here. I honestly don't know how some of you can say you know it won't happen when there is far more involved in world economics then you know. If you can tell me you know exactly what happens behind the scenes then please tell us what you know other then what you read. I know some of you have some experience in banking but do you have the experience to the level that is involved here? When you make decisions on this level there is a a lot of consequences good or bad. Honestly sometimes I don't think they know what will happen when they make decisions. These are some of the smartest economic minds on the planet that are making decisions and they make mistakes. What makes you think that you know for a fact other then the numbers don't add up. Numbers can be manipulated and if you don't think it happens your mistaken. 

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14 hours ago, Average joe40 said:

Why can't any of you respect each other's views without getting into childish argument?  If you go by just the numbers that you read there is a grim picture. If you go by the history of Iraq, the potential of Iraq, all of the mis leading articles or contradictory articles of Iraq and all of the countries and companies willing to help Iraq you can tell there is a possibility of a revaluation of their currency at some point in the future. You have to look at the whole picture. I can guarantee you nobody would have anything to do with Iraq if they were the average war torn third world country. It seems to me that if they were going to lop they would have done that already. Why add all the security features to their worthless currency? Ive already told you I know nothing about economics to the level that is involved here. I honestly don't know how some of you can say you know it won't happen when there is far more involved in world economics then you know. If you can tell me you know exactly what happens behind the scenes then please tell us what you know other then what you read. I know some of you have some experience in banking but do you have the experience to the level that is involved here? When you make decisions on this level there is a a lot of consequences good or bad. Honestly sometimes I don't think they know what will happen when they make decisions. These are some of the smartest economic minds on the planet that are making decisions and they make mistakes. What makes you think that you know for a fact other then the numbers don't add up. Numbers can be manipulated and if you don't think it happens your mistaken. 

Joe, no one here gets into a childish argument except with Caz, because he is a child at heart and reduces every serious discussion into name-calling and accusations of addictions, lies and the mocking worrying of the well-being of Lopster's children.  He has not, nor ever will, bring anything of a serious bent to the table. So that is why it is difficult to respect his 'view'.  As far as respecting the views of other more serious dinarians it must be understood this isn't a debate of established economic doctrine such as John Maynard Keynes versus Milton Friedman.  Those have and always will be discussed and argued over.  This Dinar bit is about basic, rudimentary, cause & effect, economic and monetary laws and practices that are the DNA of the world economy.  They cannot change.  It's like arguing the molecular makeup of water.  We know it's H2O.  

Iraq's history has been chaotic from the beginning.  They have never know democracy before. Potential is only potential. As it is oil is 95% of their industry. The lack of development in other sectors has unemployment at near 30%.  They have less than a half percent of the oil wells the State of Texas has and with falling oil prices Iraq has announced they cannot pay their foreign debt which amounts to 125 billion dollars.  Even with increased oil output they can only deliver half the electricity needed for its citizens. Then you throw in all the terrorist activity, the break away Kurds and it is a mess.  There isn't a lot of promise here.  Dinaraians believe that Iraq is some unique nation at the center of the world stage where a global reset of the economy is going to change all nations for the better and everyone is waiting on bated breath wondering what Iraq is going to do because where Iraq goes, the world goes.  What Iraq does, the world does.  Nevermind the United States.  The CBI controls The Fed, the US Treasury and our government.  

You mention do we know someone 'behind' the scenes or that there is far more involved in world economics than we know.  This is how the Dinar cult got started. Since an RV of the Dinar is treated as a non-issue in all serious, economic media, dinar websites had to develop the narrative that the RV is a secret and is intended for Iraqis, Elites and the CABAL.  But, you have been fortunate enough to find out about it.  That's why information about an impending RV is called 'Intel'.  Because, as the story goes, there are people 'behind' the scenes, as you say, delivering this classified 'intel' to internet dinar sites who deceminate it and explain it to dinarians who are thrilled they have access to this privileged information.  The reason this intel is not put out by mainstream news outlets is because they are in on the secret and don't want the masses to know.  But doesn't this beg the question that if this is really 'intelligence' and these websites are publishing it then IT IS out there for the public to see. So that's why I would much rather read about Iraq from credible sources than a shadowy internet site saying they have 'contacts' in Iraq, the IMF. the World Bank, the CBI etc.  Doesn't this sound at all suspicious to you?

Obviously then, there is no one behind the scenes secretly plotting Iraq's and the world's future.  This is conspiracy paranoia run amock. Whatever Iraq is doing or going to do economically is no different than what any other nation would try to do in the same mess Iraq is in.  It's not a secret and it's all verifiable.  You say if Iraq was going to LOP they would've done so? How do you know that? I LOP just means erasing zeros to make more convenient transactions and then the rate against the dollar adjusts accordingly.  Iraq Lopping or not has no bearing on an RV.  But if Iraq really could get rid of all its problems by RVing don't you think they would've done it by now? Why wait 15 years? To stabilize? Well the idea for the RV IS to stabilize Iraq.  Why RV if Iraq is stable? 

But again.  Even if Iraq had an option of an RV (which they don't) they wouldn't do it because they need a cheap dinar to help exports.  An in country RV would cause hyper inflation and although the Iraqis would have more money they would also have corresponding higher prices on everything.  And they certainly wouldn't let Dinarians fly over and exchange even if the CBI had enough dollars, which they don't (It would take 60 trillion dollars)

And that's the crux of the matter. Dinarians literally believe that Iraq can out of nowhere say and decree to the world that, "We, the sovereign Nation of Iraq are now 100,000 times richer".  Well who's going to pay for this new found wealth? Dinarians believe the US and the rest of the world will say "Oh shootdarnphooey, I guess we will have to.  If it was that easy wouldn't every other country have tried it already?  And that's the other thing:  it's never been done.

You see then why it is very difficult to 'respect' the 'view' from the other side.  It is not a view, it is hope derived from the cult land of Dinar. 

 

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11 minutes ago, caddyshack said:

And that's the crux of the matter. Dinarians literally believe that Iraq can out of nowhere say and decree to the world that, "We, the sovereign Nation of Iraq are now 100,000 times richer".  Well who's going to pay for this new found wealth? Dinarians believe the US and the rest of the world will say "Oh shootdarnphooey, I guess we will have to.  If it was that easy wouldn't every other country have tried it already?  And that's the other thing:  it's never been done

Then why does the articles keep popping up about the CBI removing the Zeros from their currency? (see the links I provided above) 

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Another question. How did Iraq go from 4000 dinars to the current rate without lopping? If they did that then I think it's safe to say they can go from their current rate to be on part with our dollar without lopping. I mean that's a huge rate increase in itself honestly. I think if a person has the money to want to take the risk, by all means do it.

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12 minutes ago, Rmc10 said:

I know a guy who lost almost $200000 in the stock market crash of 2007 2008. I'd say my risk is a LOT less than that so it's not really a big deal to invest a few thousand in the dinar.

That's correct.  Many lost more than that in the dotcom meltdown of 2000, and after 9/11.  But did you leave your stock in there? You'd have over a 300% return now. If only the Dinar could give you that much return.

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1 hour ago, Markinsa said:

Then why does the articles keep popping up about the CBI removing the Zeros from their currency? (see the links I provided above) 

I'm not sure what you want me to comment about? Isn't this why there is a Lopster tank because no one is allowed to talk about a Lop in the other forums?  Now you are saying that talk of a Lop by Iraq is a positive sign for an RV? 

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1 hour ago, caddyshack said:

That's correct.  Many lost more than that in the dotcom meltdown of 2000, and after 9/11.  But did you leave your stock in there? You'd have over a 300% return now. If only the Dinar could give you that much return.

Well that was right before his retirement so he lost it all and wasn't able to gain it back. If you never take a risk you will regret it for the rest of your life. I'd rather buy some dinar and it never revalue than say it will never revalue, never buy any, and then it does revalue and say $@*# me. Lol. 

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4 hours ago, Rmc10 said:

Well that was right before his retirement so he lost it all and wasn't able to gain it back. If you never take a risk you will regret it for the rest of your life. I'd rather buy some dinar and it never revalue than say it will never revalue, never buy any, and then it does revalue and say $@*# me. Lol. 

Right, I understand.  But dinar investors are not in it for the mundane double your money in a couple years type investment.  Everyone got in because of the certainty of a $3.22 to 1 dinar RV.  I mean you can't beat a 300,000% ROI.   But when warnings come out like this:

"In response to the growing concerns with fraud and scams related to investment in the Iraqi dinar, State agencies such as Washington state, Utah, Oklahoma, Alabama and others have issued statements and releases warning potential investors. Further alerts have been issued by news agencies.

The Better Business Bureau has included Dinar Investments in its list of top 10 scams. There has also been a book written on the subject.

These alerts warn potential investors that there is no place outside of Iraq to exchange their dinar, that they are typically sold by dealers at inflated prices and that there is little to substantiate the claims of significant appreciation of their investment due to revaluation of the currency."

You start to wonder if there is even the slightest bit of legitimacy to it. 

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6 hours ago, caddyshack said:

I'm not sure what you want me to comment about? Isn't this why there is a Lopster tank because no one is allowed to talk about a Lop in the other forums?  Now you are saying that talk of a Lop by Iraq is a positive sign for an RV? 

My point is, there is talk about a change in the currency structure of the Iraq Dinar.  What you and many others interpret as a LOP, myself and others here interpet to be a Revaluation.  No one knows, our bet, it will be a gain for us, your position there will be no gain.  Its speculation on our part.  But you come in here and tell us we're crazy.  We're not basing our opinions on nothing, we're basing our opinions on the Iraq news, and other sources that tell us the CBI is going to RV.

.

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The CBI and economists are agreeing that there could be/should be a revaluation some day in the future. That's what they want. Noone knows either way when it will happen or if they can really do it. I read those things, the one from Forbes and he even said at the very end of his writings that it could in fact revalue but it may take years and it's a very small chance that it could, IHO, so there is a chance it could and even he being a doubter said it himself. That small chance is what we are banking on. It's more like gambling than investing in my opinion but it very well could be a once in a life time opportunity. Have a great night everyone! :)

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Caddyshack, potential is exactly why I invested a small amount. There are countries and corporations that want to be involved in the potential of Iraq. I don't see it the way you do. Could they remain the same old Iraq? Yes they could very well remain the same. When you have countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia right next door you can't deny that over time it is a possibility of better times ahead of them. When that time is nobody knows. If they can get their energy and agriculture sectors back up and running as well as infrastructure then unemployment will fall. I think you would be surprised at how fast it will fall. The info that you supplied as far as the Dinar being a scam is because of past and current situations. It doesn't account for potential progress and that's what I'm speculating could happen and the dinar is  a speculative investment. I'm not worried about Isis because eventually they will be gone. Yes there will be bombings and flare ups but just about every country in the region has to deal with that. Look beyond the current situation and realize the possibilities. There wouldn't be anybody over there if they didn't realize the possibilities including the United States. 

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10 hours ago, Markinsa said:

My point is, there is talk about a change in the currency structure of the Iraq Dinar.  What you and many others interpret as a LOP, myself and others here interpet to be a Revaluation.  No one knows, our bet, it will be a gain for us, your position there will be no gain.  Its speculation on our part.  But you come in here and tell us we're crazy.  We're not basing our opinions on nothing, we're basing our opinions on the Iraq news, and other sources that tell us the CBI is going to RV.

.

I see. So although Iraq says it is going to LOP (Redenomination) you interpret that to mean Iraq is claiming it's going to RV?  If so, we know what a LOP is. It's been done in quite a few countries including Zimbabwe, Yugoslavia, Peru, Brazil, China and is a band aid for countries with steep or hyper inflation where small monetary units are not used because wages and prices are going up so fast.  

As for an RV I have never read anything where Iraq or the CBI said they are going to RV.  They have said they will RD to make transactions of dinar more convenient.  Of course RDs do not change purchasing power.  An RV is a decree by a government that forcibly changes the value of its currency against an established baseline, such as wages, commodities or a foreign currency.  In this case obviously, the RV is against the US dollar.  RVs DO happen every day on the FOREX as currencies are exchanged except that he raising of the value is called appreciation.  China is the only example I know of that actually RVd against the US Dollar because it was pegged to the dollar. China revalued the yuan 25% over nine years.  Now the yuan is pegged to a basket of currencies.

Another problem you may have is when Iraq does RD with new notes the old notes you currently have will need to be replaced.  And you can only do that in Iraq and will have little time to do it.  

But I do see what you're thinking.  Dinarians believe that if Iraq does an RD and reduces its money supply from 70 trillion dinar to 67 billion then it will match the US currency held by the CBI and will then be valued at 1 to 1.  And then the CBI will order The Fed to give dollars to Wells Fargo to act as an exchange for US Dinarians. And then The Fed will take these Dinars and cash them in at the CBI for Dollars which will deplete the CBI of its US currency reserves.  Does that sound about right?

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9 hours ago, Average joe40 said:

Caddyshack, potential is exactly why I invested a small amount. There are countries and corporations that want to be involved in the potential of Iraq. I don't see it the way you do. Could they remain the same old Iraq? Yes they could very well remain the same. When you have countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia right next door you can't deny that over time it is a possibility of better times ahead of them. When that time is nobody knows. If they can get their energy and agriculture sectors back up and running as well as infrastructure then unemployment will fall. I think you would be surprised at how fast it will fall. The info that you supplied as far as the Dinar being a scam is because of past and current situations. It doesn't account for potential progress and that's what I'm speculating could happen and the dinar is  a speculative investment. I'm not worried about Isis because eventually they will be gone. Yes there will be bombings and flare ups but just about every country in the region has to deal with that. Look beyond the current situation and realize the possibilities. There wouldn't be anybody over there if they didn't realize the possibilities including the United States. 

Certainly Iraq could emerge from the ashes and be a productive, stable country.  Of course the possibilities are there which is why there are people over there and there is foreign investment.  But those entities aren't there because they believe in an RV.  They are over there to make money as in US dollars. An RV of any kind would kill foreign investment. People here seem to think an appreciation of currency is commensurate with economic stability and progress.  Some countries like China want a cheap currency for its exports. Some the opposite.  Imports, exports and interest rates drive the value of currencies. The US likes a cheap dollar when exporting its cars but wants a strong dollar to have cheaper imported oil.  One man's Revalue is another man's Devalue.  It all depends.  If Iraq is going to have a stronger dinar it will come organically and naturally like any other currency once it gets traded on FOREX.  Much to the chagrin of Dinarians there is no shortcut, no cheating to getting wealthier by having the dinar RV all at once at the $3.22 that has been consistently advertised for the last 10 years or so.  And isn't this the dilemma? If Iraq does become economically successful and becomes a major world power why would it need to RV? The theory on all these dinar websites has been the RV is needed TO make Iraq successful now you are saying Iraq will become great on its own through foreign investment taking advantage of all its resources and potential. Well then, an RV is not needed. Right?

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20 hours ago, caddyshack said:

Joe, no one here gets into a childish argument except with Caz, because he is a child at heart and reduces every serious discussion into name-calling and accusations of addictions, lies and the mocking worrying of the well-being of Lopster's children.  He has not, nor ever will, bring anything of a serious bent to the table. So that is why it is difficult to respect his 'view'.  As far as respecting the views of other more serious dinarians it must be understood this isn't a debate of established economic doctrine such as John Maynard Keynes versus Milton Friedman.  Those have and always will be discussed and argued over.  This Dinar bit is about basic, rudimentary, cause & effect, economic and monetary laws and practices that are the DNA of the world economy.  They cannot change.  It's like arguing the molecular makeup of water.  We know it's H2O.  

Iraq's history has been chaotic from the beginning.  They have never know democracy before. Potential is only potential. As it is oil is 95% of their industry. The lack of development in other sectors has unemployment at near 30%.  They have less than a half percent of the oil wells the State of Texas has and with falling oil prices Iraq has announced they cannot pay their foreign debt which amounts to 125 billion dollars.  Even with increased oil output they can only deliver half the electricity needed for its citizens. Then you throw in all the terrorist activity, the break away Kurds and it is a mess.  There isn't a lot of promise here.  Dinaraians believe that Iraq is some unique nation at the center of the world stage where a global reset of the economy is going to change all nations for the better and everyone is waiting on bated breath wondering what Iraq is going to do because where Iraq goes, the world goes.  What Iraq does, the world does.  Nevermind the United States.  The CBI controls The Fed, the US Treasury and our government.  

You mention do we know someone 'behind' the scenes or that there is far more involved in world economics than we know.  This is how the Dinar cult got started. Since an RV of the Dinar is treated as a non-issue in all serious, economic media, dinar websites had to develop the narrative that the RV is a secret and is intended for Iraqis, Elites and the CABAL.  But, you have been fortunate enough to find out about it.  That's why information about an impending RV is called 'Intel'.  Because, as the story goes, there are people 'behind' the scenes, as you say, delivering this classified 'intel' to internet dinar sites who deceminate it and explain it to dinarians who are thrilled they have access to this privileged information.  The reason this intel is not put out by mainstream news outlets is because they are in on the secret and don't want the masses to know.  But doesn't this beg the question that if this is really 'intelligence' and these websites are publishing it then IT IS out there for the public to see. So that's why I would much rather read about Iraq from credible sources than a shadowy internet site saying they have 'contacts' in Iraq, the IMF. the World Bank, the CBI etc.  Doesn't this sound at all suspicious to you?

Obviously then, there is no one behind the scenes secretly plotting Iraq's and the world's future.  This is conspiracy paranoia run amock. Whatever Iraq is doing or going to do economically is no different than what any other nation would try to do in the same mess Iraq is in.  It's not a secret and it's all verifiable.  You say if Iraq was going to LOP they would've done so? How do you know that? I LOP just means erasing zeros to make more convenient transactions and then the rate against the dollar adjusts accordingly.  Iraq Lopping or not has no bearing on an RV.  But if Iraq really could get rid of all its problems by RVing don't you think they would've done it by now? Why wait 15 years? To stabilize? Well the idea for the RV IS to stabilize Iraq.  Why RV if Iraq is stable? 

But again.  Even if Iraq had an option of an RV (which they don't) they wouldn't do it because they need a cheap dinar to help exports.  An in country RV would cause hyper inflation and although the Iraqis would have more money they would also have corresponding higher prices on everything.  And they certainly wouldn't let Dinarians fly over and exchange even if the CBI had enough dollars, which they don't (It would take 60 trillion dollars)

And that's the crux of the matter. Dinarians literally believe that Iraq can out of nowhere say and decree to the world that, "We, the sovereign Nation of Iraq are now 100,000 times richer".  Well who's going to pay for this new found wealth? Dinarians believe the US and the rest of the world will say "Oh shootdarnphooey, I guess we will have to.  If it was that easy wouldn't every other country have tried it already?  And that's the other thing:  it's never been done.

You see then why it is very difficult to 'respect' the 'view' from the other side.  It is not a view, it is hope derived from the cult land of Dinar. 

 

Pathetic lieing loser....takes two to tango. One big difference.....I didn't lie!

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