Can Iraq Form a Government?

[nathan1606]

http://www.counterpunch.org/bello06252010.html Recently, we haven’t been paying a lot of attention to Iraq. When we do hear something, we hear about a prolonged and possibly rather disorderly process reflecting an incompetent or maybe recalcitrant embodiment of Democracy. There are, in fact, some interesting and reasonably democratic forces at play, along with some that are less so. In any case, the type of democracy they have is somewhat complicated, especially at the current stage they. The situation is sometimes represented as a competition between two guys, Iyad Allawi and his people, and Nouri Al Maliki and his people. We see Mr. Allawi insisting that he won, while Mr. Al Maliki is being a very bad sport, using all of the resources he can muster as the incumbent to change the outcome, so far without success. And, at some level, this is all too true.

But there are some significant, and quite reasonable players driving events behind the scenes. The focus on Iyad Allawi and Nouri Al Maliki is not entirely surprising. They both have the American seal of approval. Mr. Al Maliki has, for the most part, been doing our bidding for several years, and Mr. Allawi has lived most of his adult life in the US, and was part of the original group that planned the invasion of Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein. It is oft mentioned that Mr. Allawi is a Shiite with a strong Sunni following, but I am thinking he is most likely a garden variety Western secular person with no particular interest in the sectarian issues that drive native Iraqis. Al Maliki was most likely approved by US ‘advisers’ because, when he left the country during the Iran Iraq war, he retreated to Syria, a secular country, rather than the Islamic Republic of Iran.

In fact, two coalitions more or less tied for first place in this election. The Iraqiya Coalition, with which Mr. Allawi is associated, and the State of Law Coalition, with which Mr. Al Maliki is associated. It’s true that Al Iraqiya won 91 seats, and The State of Law, only 89. Out of 325 seats, this means that each won about 28% of the total seats. The difference between the 2 leading coalitions was less than 1%. This is a statistically meaningless difference. To form a government requires the complicity of a group representing at least 50% of the seats.

This gives Iyad Allawi, as leader of Al Iraqiya, the right to make the first attempt at forming a government. This is going to be difficult for Mr. Allawi because the coalition doesn’t represent any particular block of the population, and was assembled from diverse streams, one by one. State of Law, however, is a break away from a much larger coalition of Shiite streams. And there isn’t anything to stop State of Law from negotiating behind the scenes to pull together their own resources for forming a government behind the scenes. The result is a lot of confusion and complaining.

Assuming the veracity of the previous statement, then there is going to be some stress in the system. With Mr. Allawi and Mr. Al Maliki facing off for battle, we tend to see the contest in terms of (their) personalities. We are encouraged, for instance, to judge Mr. Allawi on the fact that there are Sunnis in his coalition, so he might be a particularly fair minded individual. We have been informed that Mr. Al Maliki, though he cooperated reasonably well with the occupation forces for the last 4 years, is a potential Iranian dupe. And, of course, Mr. Al Maliki is using government resources, albeit without much success, to shore up his position through some rather shoddy tactics. Both are presented to us as potential Iraqi 'strongmen', something we are told the Iraqis need. But how much of a 'strongman' can a puppet be?

We are invited to consider the injustice of having a largely Shia government over the recently disenfranchised (20%) Sunni population. I find the last argument particularly ironic given the utter lack of concern we, in the West, have shown for the Shiite majority in Iraq over the last hundred years or so, not to mention the Shiite majority in Lebanon (whose leadership are designated ‘terrorists’), and sizeable Shiite minorities in Bahrain, Yemen and Saudi Arabia, whom the US is concerned will somehow become empowered and inconvenience the states in which they reside. Our preference for those Shiites is that they keep their heads down and avoid resistance, leaving the power to our longtime Sunni Allies in the region.

But there is a whole other level on which the final decision will be made, and which is not very clear to Americans. Not only is it unclear because we don’t hear much about it, but it fades into the background because the process is so different from the one that underlies our own democracy. We vote for a presidential candidate because we want person X to be president. The Iraqis vote for Parliamentarians kind of the way we vote for Congressmen and Senators based a variety of local and federal issues, and local party affiliations. The local vote in Iraq is, in fact, even further removed from their federal results because there are many small local parties that only join together at a higher level.

We have 2 parties with some auxiliaries which largely support the main parties. In Iraq, they have many streams, which join various larger streams and eventually end up in the large coalitions we know about. In fact there are at least 5 coalitions all the way up at the level where a Government must be assembled and a Prime Minister chosen. They do not have the same consistency and identity that the parties here have. Iraqiya and State of Law are the largest, but the next largest is the National coalition, which is largely comprised of the rest of the Shia not affiliated with the State of Law including the Sadrists and ISCI, well known to us for their early precedence in the Iraq Government . From our standpoint, they seem like insiders and outsiders, but from a local perspective, they are just are a diverse group of Shiite Islamist streams with deep roots in their communities.

The National coalition, among whom the Sadrists are currently the largest block, won 70 seats, 22% to the 28% each held by Iraqiya and State of Law, without a presumptive Prime Minister. The Sadrists hold 40 of the 70 seats. They say they are happy to join forces with the State of Law coalition, but under no circumstances will they accept Al Maliki as Prime Minister. According to Ameer Al Kinani, a prominent member of the Sadrist block, the Sadrists don’t have any problem teaming up with the Iraqiya coalition either. However, they also reject Iyad Allawi as a potential Prime Minister.

To make the point, several months ago, the Sadrists held a referendum in the areas where they are strong to find out the people’s choice for Prime Minister. Ibrahim Al Jaafari won. PM, Al Kinani said that although Ibrahim Al Jaafari is not their first choice for Prime Minister, they will accept him in that position because he is the choice of the people. When asked if the Sunnis in the Iraqiya coalition presented a problem to the Sadrists, he said that they do not. Any democratically elected person should have their seat in Parliament. The thing is, Prime Minister is a political position, not an elected one.

The Sadrists are positioning themselves politically, in a similar way to Lebanon’s Hezbollah. It's not a surprise that their strategies resemble those of Hezbollah, not only because of the Iranian connection, but more directly because Hassan Nasrallah, the popular Secretary General of Hezbollah studied with Muqtada Al Sadr's uncle. They are a nationalist party opposed to international intervention. They are supported by the working class and, and say that they advocate a direct vote sort of democracy. Though affiliated with the Shiite Religious hierarchy, they are politically open those with similar political agendas. Both Al Maliki and Allawi are tainted through their relationships with the occupier. The Sadrist Block supported Al Maliki in his ascent to power, but he did not respond to their needs. His focus on the ‘Rule of Law’ was enacted at their expense, while he failed to provide promised services and support systems for the people. Fresh water, sanitation and electricity are still extremely limited in Iraq, and especially in Baghdad.

The Kurds hold another 40 seats in the new Parliament. Jalal Talabani is a popular first choice for President across pretty much all coalitions. Talabani has been doing a lot of running around, and wining and dining of various groups since the election. For a while, leading up to the election, it appeared he might retire, but the stakes are just too high. Though President of Iraq is a largely ceremonial position, Talabani uses it well. He is a facilitator, adviser and lobbyist, well liked and trusted by players on all sides, other than, perhaps, the Kurdish Gorran Party who are defectors from his own PUK party. Numerous open and clandestine negotiations take place at his complex in Suleimaniya.

It is likely that the Kurds’ support will be required for any coalition to be large enough to form a Government. The Kurds aren’t necessarily concerned about who will be the Prime Minister, though they have had some problems in the past with Iyad Allawi, and Nouri Al Maliki has not applied the law to resolve the status of Kirkuk, a critical issue for them. They are also not concerned about whether or not there are more or less Sunnis in their coalition. They have worked with the Shiites so far, though they are mostly Sunni themselves. However they do have some serious conditions for their support. In order to receive their support, a coalition and it’s leadership must agree to enact Article 140 in the Iraqi Constitution. This article says that they will hold a referendum in Kirkuk to decide whether or not Kirkuk will be adjoined to the Kurdish Region of Iraq.

This is an interesting issue as there are lots of innuendo and dissembling around it. Although the Kurds in Northern Iraq have been very helpful to the US during the lead up to the war and up to this point, and they do seem to have broad support from the US, the Kirkuk issue is where the line is drawn. The US in particular, and the UN representing the international community are opposed to holding this referendum. The Iraq government dithered and procrastinated and avoided their responsibility to enact this proposal from the day it was written to this day. The International Crisis Group, an advisory group to the UN has written a report which suggests that if the referendum were held, it would lead to a civil war, a seemingly rather extreme prediction for a number of reasons. Instead they suggest some variations on making the city a UN Protectorate, a solution that would put the oil rights, a critical point of contention, in limbo.

Not resolving a dispute seems an odd way of keeping peace. Arabization programs 30 – 40 years ago, they are not keen on seeing it become, once again, a Kurdish center of power. Early in the war, Kurds began returning to their homes in Kirkuk. Some Arabs were starting to leave, when the US promised to provide compensation to Arabs who chose to leave and allow the Kurds to return. At this point, they stopped leaving and set down to wait for their compensation, with the Kurds camped in their back yards, so to speak. But, the US never provided the compensation and a situation which was resolving itself, turned inward and began to boil. The current status is the result of a strategy on non-resolution.

There is a mix of Kurds, Arabs and Turkomen in Kirkuk. The city was primarily a Kurdish city when Saddam began his Arabization campaign, and it lies just on the border of the region governed by the Kurdish Regional Government. Are there now enough Kurds present to win a referendum? Probably. The Kurds did not win the regional elections around Kirkuk, but they lost on a technicality. They tied the winners without a significant number of votes that went to the new Kurdish Party, Gorran, which did not get enough votes overall to be seated. Had those votes gone to the Kurdish Coalition, they would have been 2 seats ahead of the united opposition. So, would the Kurds win? Probably, but a decision based on a referendum would make a resolution possible either way.

While we are worrying about whether Iran will have excessive influence over the post-election formation of a Government in Iraq, and our government is most assuredly making some attempt to support their favored players in this process, internal forces are at work that will likely define the form that a future government will take. I have discussed at some length, the interests of two relatively powerful second level coalitions. The Kurds and the Sadrists appear at opposite polarities in the Iraqi political spectrum, but both have specific goals and are willing to compromise to have them met. Both have problems with the presumptive Prime Ministers. Both are looking at ways to address their concerns within the democratic system.

In a process where little streams trickle into larger ones and coalitions are formed like great rivers from hundreds of little streams flowing from the mountains, the voice of the people will coalesce in a very different way than in a rigidly defined 2 party system like our own. We should be very careful about making assumptions about who will prevail and what the end result will look like. We should also hope that our government will leave the Iraqi process enough room so that the Government will be formed through a meaningful consensus, which is the only way it can possibly be empowered to handle the challenges of an independent nation. Without a measure of unity and internal integrity, the new government will not be able to ensure the ultimate withdrawal of the occupying forces.

So how do I want to conclude this piece? What important conclusions can we draw from the facts above? First, and most importantly, the Iraqis do know what a democracy is, and they are capable of asserting their rights within a democratic system. Next, it would seem that the second level of integrated powers in Iraq are discounted by the West, but if the democratic process is allowed to play out, they will strongly influence the shape Iraq’s new government will take, and the shape of Iraq’s future. Finally, I would assume, if Nouri Al Maliki or Iyad Allawi is the next Prime Minister, that the democratic process was derailed by external influences. http://www.counterpunch.org/bello06252010.html

Edited June 25, 2010 by nathan1606

[Mongo]

Can Iraq form a government?..........................No

[Mongo]

True free republics can only be formed by men of GOD, inspired by GOD and sustained by GODLY people in that country. Anything less is doomed to fail. The constitution wasn't just writen by some men wanting to start a country....No . It is a GOD inspired document that's wisdom transcends that of men. There has never been a country like the United States of America in the history of the world and there never will be again, unless GOD creates it.The fruits of evil thrive in other countries and are easy to spot and have a foothold in America also. How soon the generations forget the warning of their forefathers, to keep GOD first in their lives, and walk headfirst onto the paths of destruction only to discover their mistake after it's too late. Iraq will only form a government..... if it is GOD's purpose to use them in his master plan(which is in the bible) then he will. Otherwise Iraq does not possess the wisdom(which comes from GOD) to form a lasting Government. Can they form a government long enough to RV?............I hope so!!!

[Brandon2230]

True free republics can only be formed by men of GOD, inspired by GOD and sustained by GODLY people in that country. Anything less is doomed to fail. The constitution wasn't just writen by some men wanting to start a country....No . It is a GOD inspired document that's wisdom transcends that of men. There has never been a country like the United States of America in the history of the world and there never will be again, unless GOD creates it.The fruits of evil thrive in other countries and are easy to spot and have a foothold in America also. How soon the generations forget the warning of their forefathers, to keep GOD first in their lives, and walk headfirst onto the paths of destruction only to discover their mistake after it's too late. Iraq will only form a government..... if it is GOD's purpose to use them in his master plan(which is in the bible) then he will. Otherwise Iraq does not possess the wisdom(which comes from GOD) to form a lasting Government. Can they form a government long enough to RV?............I hope so!!!

AMEN!!!

[layadooganlazy]

MONGO, I couldn't have said it any better

[The Watcher]

True free republics can only be formed by men of GOD, inspired by GOD and sustained by GODLY people in that country. Anything less is doomed to fail. The constitution wasn't just writen by some men wanting to start a country....No . It is a GOD inspired document that's wisdom transcends that of men. There has never been a country like the United States of America in the history of the world and there never will be again, unless GOD creates it.The fruits of evil thrive in other countries and are easy to spot and have a foothold in America also. How soon the generations forget the warning of their forefathers, to keep GOD first in their lives, and walk headfirst onto the paths of destruction only to discover their mistake after it's too late. Iraq will only form a government..... if it is GOD's purpose to use them in his master plan(which is in the bible) then he will. Otherwise Iraq does not possess the wisdom(which comes from GOD) to form a lasting Government. Can they form a government long enough to RV?............I hope so!!!

Wonderfully put.. I wish our politicians would remember this, just for a little while. I recently read a small little book by Dr. Richard G. Lee entitled IN GOD WE STILL TRUST. It is very evident when quoting our forefathers that they established the government of the United States on Christian and Biblical principles. You may worship as you please in America, you may believe in nothing, but never doubt that we are (were) a Christian nation. As we turn away from God, He will deminish our power and standing until we turn back. The last 40-50 years are evident of that happening. America did not become the envy of the world by itself. Divine Providence led America. Mongo has it right in my opinion, the Constitution is God inspired and it transcends the wisdom of men. God is on his throne. Give Glory to God.

[automag]

nathan1606 Thank you for that post as I am sure that it will cause many here on the forums to seriously ponder what it is we are involved in. Plus as evidenced by some of the replies it will cause the reader to consider the democracy we here in the US hold so dear. The formation of the Iraqi experiment is an eye opener and as a newly forming democracy there can be so many lessons for Americans and others from the different countries represented here on the forum to witness and remember. Remember that our own democracy is our source of strength and we must all protect it like we were protecting our children.

The writer has brought many valid questions and observations with regards to the present state of affairs in Iraq and the region as well as valid questions and observations of the players in the game including players outside of Iraq. There is no way to just offer opinion or rebuttal to this report as there are so many considerations to think about. I will say I believe Iraq can and will be successful. However. It won't be easy nor will it be pretty.

As always Mongo has said it best when referring to our own country. I'm not a very religious person openly yet I do believe in and love Jesus Christ. I don't care to much for organized religion but I highly support it's existence and I support religions teachings to those who would want and need to learn. Simply stated I don't like to go to church but we need churches and people should go. I do go. But not often as I should. But there in lies the greatness of our democracy. Freedom of Choice. If you knew me you would know I did not say this lightly and I have almost witnessed before the congregation which I rarely speak of my own beliefs or do I ever say them in public. But this is an example of the glory of God and the glory of the American example of democracy which Mongo so correctly stated was built on the breadth of God and his wisdom.

That I could be the way I am and exist in this country without persecution is exactly what this country was founded for. Freedom. That in it self was worth the price of the blood, sweat and tears this nation has put forth towards that effort. It will be worth the price the Iraqi's have shed and will pay for the same result..........Freedom. Can they do it? Time will tell. Will they do it? God only knows.

I say that they can. I hope they will. I remember another country that struggled mightily when it first became a concept and after many many decades and thousands and thousands of lives it became a nation. That nation found itself in many a predicament that to the observers eye would have spelled doom and failure. But even when the chips were down the people of that nation forged ahead and eventually even when all seemed hopeless they became the mightiest nation on the earth. They didn't succeed alone for they had the help of others but succeed they did. With the help of God they became The United States of America.

I get chills reading that name. The United States of America. I hope you do as well. But never forget that without the blessings of our Lord and Saviour we would have disappeared long ago. We must continue on with the Lord by our side or again we will perish and we must never forget that.........Please.

Think about it....All that pontificating from a guy who doesn't like to go to church. If thats not proof of God I don't know what is..

[iwamfnn]

True free republics can only be formed by men of GOD, inspired by GOD and sustained by GODLY people in that country. Anything less is doomed to fail. The constitution wasn't just writen by some men wanting to start a country....No . It is a GOD inspired document that's wisdom transcends that of men. There has never been a country like the United States of America in the history of the world and there never will be again, unless GOD creates it.The fruits of evil thrive in other countries and are easy to spot and have a foothold in America also. How soon the generations forget the warning of their forefathers, to keep GOD first in their lives, and walk headfirst onto the paths of destruction only to discover their mistake after it's too late. Iraq will only form a government..... if it is GOD's purpose to use them in his master plan(which is in the bible) then he will. Otherwise Iraq does not possess the wisdom(which comes from GOD) to form a lasting Government. Can they form a government long enough to RV?............I hope so!!!

Might you by chance be insinuating that our founding fathers were anything other than deists? How F-ing ignorant. Google some quotes from some of your GODLY composers of the US Constitution with relation to their belief in a GOD, you will certainly be in for a rude awakening. Give Thomas Jefferson a try. In fact...Google the Jeffersonian version of the bible and read it in its entirety. Oh wait? Isn't that a sin to manipulate and contort the word of GOD?!!? How could such a GODLY man be capable of such a thing?! It is okay to have a system of beliefs and I respect that, but I become offended at ignorant statements regarding the belief sets of the framers of our constitution. I hold them in high esteem. Please keep your ignorance in check.

[dwhite1971]

I am with you Mongo.

Go RV!!!

[Mongo]

Might you by chance be insinuating that our founding fathers were anything other than deists? How F-ing ignorant. Google some quotes from some of your GODLY composers of the US Constitution with relation to their belief in a GOD, you will certainly be in for a rude awakening. Give Thomas Jefferson a try. In fact...Google the Jeffersonian version of the bible and read it in its entirety. Oh wait? Isn't that a sin to manipulate and contort the word of GOD?!!? How could such a GODLY man be capable of such a thing?! It is okay to have a system of beliefs and I respect that, but I become offended at ignorant statements regarding the belief sets of the framers of our constitution. I hold them in high esteem. Please keep your ignorance in check.

It wasn't men that made this country great you twit it was GOD working through many men. Oh......you knew TJ personally? You must be old. I have nothing but contempt for liberal, progressive slant on history that you hold. They poison the youths minds in school with the stuff you spew out of your mouth as truth. How sad you live in the very ignorance that you say I live in.Your living the eye's wide shut life. so sorry for you!!

[automag]

Might you by chance be insinuating that our founding fathers were anything other than deists? How F-ing ignorant. Google some quotes from some of your GODLY composers of the US Constitution with relation to their belief in a GOD, you will certainly be in for a rude awakening. Give Thomas Jefferson a try. In fact...Google the Jeffersonian version of the bible and read it in its entirety. Oh wait? Isn't that a sin to manipulate and contort the word of GOD?!!? How could such a GODLY man be capable of such a thing?! It is okay to have a system of beliefs and I respect that, but I become offended at ignorant statements regarding the belief sets of the framers of our constitution. I hold them in high esteem. Please keep your ignorance in check.

It ain't what you said. It's how you said it. What? You think you are the only one who knows about the founding fathers and their ideas? Who frigging cares. They are history. But you my little putz are right now.

You wanna make your point? Fine. DO IT!! But for you to join minutes ago and walk in here with that attitude is BS dude. Tell you what. Let me bend over and you can kiss my butt with that attitude. I don't like it and I don't like friggin Morons like you. Make no mistake. You and I will not be friends. We get trash like you here all to much nowadays and it's becoming a real pain in the butt.

You disrespected Mongo and that is a no no. He made his point and all you could do was trounce him in favor of your beliefs. Your interpretation and your opinion. What the hell ever gave you the thought that your opinion was better than his that you could take a baseball bat to his opinion? You were rude and you exclaimed he needed to keep his uneducated opinion to himself. Well my response to that is GO TO HELL.

Do me and all the other members of forum a favor. Get the hell out of here. Oh there will be no doubt you are gonna respond to this. You will because you just can't resist. So go ahead. We are taking bets as I type on how and what you'll say. It will be just another guy like you and we get them enough around here that we become entertained provoking people like you. So go ahead. Make My Day!!!

[terr]

True free republics can only be formed by men of GOD, inspired by GOD and sustained by GODLY people in that country. Anything less is doomed to fail. The constitution wasn't just writen by some men wanting to start a country....No . It is a GOD inspired document that's wisdom transcends that of men. There has never been a country like the United States of America in the history of the world and there never will be again, unless GOD creates it.The fruits of evil thrive in other countries and are easy to spot and have a foothold in America also. How soon the generations forget the warning of their forefathers, to keep GOD first in their lives, and walk headfirst onto the paths of destruction only to discover their mistake after it's too late. Iraq will only form a government..... if it is GOD's purpose to use them in his master plan(which is in the bible) then he will. Otherwise Iraq does not possess the wisdom(which comes from GOD) to form a lasting Government. Can they form a government long enough to RV?............I hope so!!!

Mongo, I totally agree with you on this. With God all things are possible.

[Prim]

Why is it that people with a nasty tongue don't understand ....... I think I know. Thanks Mongo.

[automag]

If anybody has any doubts that forming a democracy is easy, then read this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326891123551892.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[drox]

Isn't that the problem in the world today... My God is better than your God? Silly me, I was under the impression he was on all of our sides. Bless you all.

Nathan... nice opinion piece you found. Thanks. She left quite a few holes in her article but for the most part was a nice summation.

[SandyTigger]

nathan1606 Thank you for that post as I am sure that it will cause many here on the forums to seriously ponder what it is we are involved in. Plus as evidenced by some of the replies it will cause the reader to consider the democracy we here in the US hold so dear. The formation of the Iraqi experiment is an eye opener and as a newly forming democracy there can be so many lessons for Americans and others from the different countries represented here on the forum to witness and remember. Remember that our own democracy is our source of strength and we must all protect it like we were protecting our children.

The writer has brought many valid questions and observations with regards to the present state of affairs in Iraq and the region as well as valid questions and observations of the players in the game including players outside of Iraq. There is no way to just offer opinion or rebuttal to this report as there are so many considerations to think about. I will say I believe Iraq can and will be successful. However. It won't be easy nor will it be pretty.

As always Mongo has said it best when referring to our own country. I'm not a very religious person openly yet I do believe in and love Jesus Christ. I don't care to much for organized religion but I highly support it's existence and I support religions teachings to those who would want and need to learn. Simply stated I don't like to go to church but we need churches and people should go. I do go. But not often as I should. But there in lies the greatness of our democracy. Freedom of Choice. If you knew me you would know I did not say this lightly and I have almost witnessed before the congregation which I rarely speak of my own beliefs or do I ever say them in public. But this is an example of the glory of God and the glory of the American example of democracy which Mongo so correctly stated was built on the breadth of God and his wisdom.

That I could be the way I am and exist in this country without persecution is exactly what this country was founded for. Freedom. That in it self was worth the price of the blood, sweat and tears this nation has put forth towards that effort. It will be worth the price the Iraqi's have shed and will pay for the same result..........Freedom. Can they do it? Time will tell. Will they do it? God only knows.

I say that they can. I hope they will. I remember another country that struggled mightily when it first became a concept and after many many decades and thousands and thousands of lives it became a nation. That nation found itself in many a predicament that to the observers eye would have spelled doom and failure. But even when the chips were down the people of that nation forged ahead and eventually even when all seemed hopeless they became the mightiest nation on the earth. They didn't succeed alone for they had the help of others but succeed they did. With the help of God they became The United States of America.

Just want to share a chat I had with a friend of mine via YM today:

sandytigger: xxxxx ,are u there?

sandytigger: helloooooooo

sandytigger: i see u now

xxxxxx: hello Mr. xxxxxx

sandytigger: salam

xxxxxx: Aleikum Assalam

xxxxxx: I'm back, Sorry Mr. xxxxxx I had some problems with the network provider

sandytigger: okay, did u read all my notes?

xxxxxx: I did

sandytigger: okay, any answers?

sandytigger: ok, since u work for banks, do they have the smaller denominations now?

sandytigger: like 1 dinar, 5 dinars, 10 dinars, 50 dinars, 100 dinars 500 dinars ?

sandytigger: 20 dinars?

xxxxxx: yes sure, even though those smaller denominations are not found, but theyre counted

sandytigger: do they have the new dinar bills available already?

xxxxxx: no

sandytigger: when do you think they will print new smaller bills?

xxxxxx: maybe after forming the new government, and exactly the minstry of finance

xxxxxx: I hope next month

sandytigger: what are people saying on the streets?

sandytigger: who do you think is going to be the president and the prime minister ?

xxxxxx: people only cares about the wether and electricity, they don’t care for politics. They all ali baba

sandytigger: you mean, crooks?

xxxxxx: yes, they do all stealing

xxxxxx: we're dying over here, do you know that it's 46 centigrade today, no electricity, no water for toilet they bad people, all thieves everyone one of them

sandytigger: i know, it was 50 degrees celsius here

sandytigger: i feel all your pain

xxxxxx: that's why the political interests are not on our priorities

xxxxxx: now it's worse

xxxxxx: they are thefts

xxxxxx: they dont deserve it

sandytigger: we all know that but you should care for forming new government

xxxxxx: we elected them, they promised that everything will be better

xxxxxx: and nothing changed

xxxxxx: now we cant get them away, and they dont do what they have to do

sandytigger: what do you mean, cant get them away?

xxxxxx: we elected them already, so now they sit there doing nothing.

sandytigger: I see.

xxxxxx: but I think -as long as Almaliki has merged his bloc with al hakeem- then most probably Al jafary will be the prime minister

xxxxxx: and maybe al maliki

xxxxxx: we're so desperate

xxxxxx: do you understand me Mr. xxxxxx

sandytigger: i do

xxxxxx: I hate this country

sandytigger: u should care for your country

xxxxxx: I hoped I got the the chance to leave it

xxxxxx: but I didn't

sandytigger: I’m sorry to hear that my friend. asif

sandytigger: on a different subject, since you work with banks]

sandytigger: when do you think the dinar will equal the us dollar?

xxxxxx: after this suggestion will be accepted

sandytigger: what do you mean suggestion?

xxxxxx: in government, when they accept proposals, then when ministry of finance formed, maybe they start

xxxxxx: I dont know when, it depends who will be in charge

sandytigger: what are they saying in the banks?

sandytigger: about the dinar and the dollar?

xxxxxx: no one knows believe me mr. xxxxxx

sandytigger: this is hard to believe

xxxxxx: thew economy will be strong again

sandytigger: when ?

xxxxxx: and we will be again the sixth stronger economy in the world

xxxxxx: when dinar goes back to normal level rate to dollar

sandytigger: ?

sandytigger: do you know when?

sandytigger: have you heard anything about it

xxxxxx: I dont know, sorry. Believe me. No one knows. They keep it very secret.

sandytigger: I am sure iraqis talk about it

sandytigger: what are iraqis saying

xxxxxx: nothing, believe me, only people with power know.

sandytigger: what is your boss saying?

xxxxxx: he knows nothing about it

sandytigger: REALLY?

sandytigger: so no iraqi citizen know who the president is going to be, who the prime minister is going to be and when your money will go up in value again????

sandytigger: this is very hard to believe xxxxxxx

xxxxxx: i asked him once, and he said it's just a suggestion has been put on from the minstry of finance, and nothing happened yet

sandytigger: suggestion as in proposal?

xxxxxx: yes, that was his answer

sandytigger: okay I understand but it is still hard to believe. Not that I don’t believe you, just find it hard that no one is talking. That’s all.

xxxxxx: people are retarded

xxxxxx: believe me, only people with power can do something, regular citizens cannot do anything.

sandytigger: i am very dissapointed with how slow things are happening with your government.

xxxxxx: just the ones who think the way you care about that subjects

xxxxxx: the way you do I mean

sandytigger: u should know all these things

xxxxxx: do you think I'm lying to you Mr. xxxxxx?

sandytigger: no i know you are not lying. I believe you my friend.

xxxxxx: I feel comfortable when I talk to you

xxxxxx: you inspire my Mr. xxxxxx

xxxxxx: I will keep in touch with u

xxxxxx: I have to go now Mr. xxxxxx

sandytigger: okay, thank you for your time.

xxxxxx: talk to you soon

xxxxxx: bye

sandytigger: , shukran, ma asalama

xxxxxx: please be safe

sandytigger: u 2

xxxxxx has signed out. (7/9/2010 2:26 PM)

[ROACH]

MONGO FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!

[leggman24]

Thanks for the insite SandyTigger. Seems like even the people over there dont have a clue whats going on either. Feel for all of them. Seems like if the right people get in then we will see what both us and the Iraqi people want. GO RV!!!!!!

Edited July 9, 2010 by leggman24

[Doc31]

Good article

Thanks for the post

[denbo420]

Wonderfully put.. I wish our politicians would remember this, just for a little while. I recently read a small little book by Dr. Richard G. Lee entitled IN GOD WE STILL TRUST. It is very evident when quoting our forefathers that they established the government of the United States on Christian and Biblical principles. You may worship as you please in America, you may believe in nothing, but never doubt that we are (were) a Christian nation. As we turn away from God, He will deminish our power and standing until we turn back. The last 40-50 years are evident of that happening. America did not become the envy of the world by itself. Divine Providence led America. Mongo has it right in my opinion, the Constitution is God inspired and it transcends the wisdom of men. God is on his throne. Give Glory to God.

As the Arabs say: La ilaha ila Allah, Allahu Akbar

for translation please send check or money order in the amount of 2 cents to the following address..............

[EBJNYC]

It wasn't men that made this country great you twit it was GOD working through many men. Oh......you knew TJ personally? You must be old. I have nothing but contempt for liberal, progressive slant on history that you hold. They poison the youths minds in school with the stuff you spew out of your mouth as truth. How sad you live in the very ignorance that you say I live in.Your living the eye's wide shut life. so sorry for you!!

The truth is most of our FOUNDING FATHERS were FREEMASONS. Freemasonry requires its members to believe in "A GOD" -- does not specify which God.

Edited July 9, 2010 by EBJNYC

[army03]

Great Read..Thanks

The truth is most of our FOUNDING FATHERS were FREEMASONS. Freemasonry requires its members to believe in "A GOD" -- does not specify which God.

What proof do you have to support your statement.

If you are a Mason we can talk off line and not in the formatt/forum

[denbo420]

Great Read..Thanks

What proof do you have to support your statement.

If you are a Mason we can talk off line and not in the formatt/forum

Seems like there's a documentory a week on the History channel depicting all these conspiracy theories involving the Freemasons, 'll admit some of em are scary. I don't know enough to make a judgement call

[terr]

True free republics can only be formed by men of GOD, inspired by GOD and sustained by GODLY people in that country. Anything less is doomed to fail. The constitution wasn't just writen by some men wanting to start a country....No . It is a GOD inspired document that's wisdom transcends that of men. There has never been a country like the United States of America in the history of the world and there never will be again, unless GOD creates it.The fruits of evil thrive in other countries and are easy to spot and have a foothold in America also. How soon the generations forget the warning of their forefathers, to keep GOD first in their lives, and walk headfirst onto the paths of destruction only to discover their mistake after it's too late. Iraq will only form a government..... if it is GOD's purpose to use them in his master plan(which is in the bible) then he will. Otherwise Iraq does not possess the wisdom(which comes from GOD) to form a lasting Government. Can they form a government long enough to RV?............I hope so!!!

Mongo. those are words of wisdom right there, hope they are listening and you get an AMEN from me. I agree, too many trying to be top dog there. God, will take care of us all, and them.

The truth is most of our FOUNDING FATHERS were FREEMASONS. Freemasonry requires its members to believe in "A GOD" -- does not specify which God.

I too feel sorry for you in your lack of knowing the one true GOD. From what I understand , FREEMASONS have protected the word of God for a really long time. You are not seeing the whole picture I don't beleave, but I sure think Mongo gets it.