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Apple challenges 'chilling' demand to decrypt San Bernardino shooter's iPhone

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Oh, for pete's sake !  Quit over-thinking this thing, FLATDAWG - puh-leeze:facepalm2:




Are we all being victimized by Big Brother ... ? Absolutely.


Technology has brought us way far -- fast.


If we choose to allow them to invade us / our space, they will.  If we don't -- they will anyway.  


The appliances in your own home that you purchased and installed rat you out.


The SMART METER on the side of your house is a tattle-tale, too.


The systems in your vehicle are a serious breach of your privacy and the gov can even shut you down

whilst you're speedin' down the highway if they want to.


Your license tag gets scanned everywhere, everyday.


Like SENTINEL sez, your TV is watching YOU !  


So is your LapTop


This apple issue is NOT the 1st time gov has called upon a phone company to do this.  Won't be the last.


If getting those 18 minutes will save even ONE American life - GREAT !

 If it will help lead to other  TERRORISTS  EMBEDDED  HERE - even better !


As much as we'd all like to retain every aspect of our PRIVACY -- sadly, it's too late.

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This isn't about just one Phone getting unlocked from one dead Terrorist ....Amazing looking back from the past when everyone was up in arms about how the US Government was spying on Americans....amazing how times have change....

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I remember the party lines when I was a kid.  Old lady Long down on the corner listened to every phone conversation that came out of our house......She had busy body, boredom issues.  My point being, if she was listening, so was everybody else, including the dark forces......and we all somehow survived it.  Living in fear will eat you up.  


GO RV, then BV

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Sure, FLATDAWG, after all it's just a safe which we can replace after it's breached.


But we cannot replace our loved ones.


The County can replace their phone once breached, too.


Are we still "up in arms" over gov intrusion, YerYOTAness...?  You betcha.  We don't like it.


Think about how much data the gov had on the Boston bombers.... and they didn't do a damned

thing with / about it.  EPIC FAIL.  The blood of those American victims is on the gov's hands to be sure.


We believe apple can hand over a transcript of those 18 minutes without jeapordizing their 'technology'.


They don't have to tell the gov how they got it.  

Just print it out, hand it over and tell the gov "see ya ! Vaya con Dios !"


Meanwhile -- from up in space.... the gov, and everybody else's satellites are seeing everything yer doin' anyway.  Hell, so does GOOGLE EARTH... !


The IRS sees you, the waiter scanning yer Credit Card at Chipotle's sees you,

yer rat-neighbor sees you, ho'bummer's drones see you,....etc, etc...


It's too late.  The technology is out there.


Lock the apple tech in a secure room with the damned phone,

download the 18 minutes and tell the gov --

"... here ya go, good luck, glad we could help SAVE LIVES.... now go away and do your part, we did ours."





Edited by SgtFuryUSCZ
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The fourth amendment voluntarily surrendered by the American people.

That ship has sailed get over it after all we still have nine left.


With the death of the forth also goes the third only now they do not have to quarter soldiers in your home now they can have one soldier watch a whole neighborhood through smart appliances and the cloud.

How long until they mandate every home have smart appliances because of the war on terror?


But don’t worry we still have eight.


Brings us to the first amendment which the left hates as it is the amendment that causes people to be offended.

Every one should be able to go through life without reading, seeing or hearing anything that might cause them distress.

Do you realize how our lives would change if we lose the first amendment?

We would look like North Korea in our dress. We would be issued political correct subjects to talk about. We would only see and hear government approved radio and tv shows.


But as Shabs says we will survive it.


The second amendment constantly under attack from all sides

The government hates it because it allows us to defend ourselves from a tyrannical government trying hard to control all aspect of your life.

Criminals hate it because they think they should be able to ply their trade  of rape,rob and kill without danger to themselves.

The liberals hate it because they despise self defense if the police cannot get to you in time and you and your family are wiped out. Don’t worry they will be handled by the courts.

Not to mention it hampers their agenda of total domination.


What ever you do not over think it because you might just realize that America home of the brave land of the free is disappearing before your very eyes


Seems we are losing the war on terrorism by voluntarily doing what Islam wants us to do.


                                No Surrender No Retreat and No Compromise

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Not sure which to be more disappointed with ya ladies, your belief of the official story or how easily y'all are willing to give up the little privacy you have left.

I wouldn't put it past this government, especially this administration, that the whole event was done to get the back door they want.

In related news, I read the the land of fruits and nuts and joo York are considering outlawing encrypted phone.

Edited by flatdawg
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Can't argue with that, SENTINEL.  You're right.


We've lost so many major battles in this regard, that this apple thing seems like

those who let it all slip through their fingers

are crying over a little spilt milk A LITTLE TOO LATE.


And that's what we're trying to say here... all we can do now is try to stop the bleeding from the gaping,

sucking chest wound -- which, YES... is SELF-INFLICTED.

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FLATDAWG - SENTINEL just told you .... we have no privacy left.


Big Brother HAS taken what they want of US.... by design.


And We The People are responsible.


And you're right... they are not stopping... very liberal NY & Kalifornia are the vanguards for implementation

of the their evil take-down... they always roll over and take it, either through ignorance, weakness or indifference,


and the voices of dissent of Patriots who try to intervene have been labeled conspiracy theorists, crazy, and

non-team-players.  All THAT is also be design.


Now it's too late.


Now we apply tourniquets... apply what pressure we can... scream loudly for a medic....

and watch our patient slowly bleed to death....


How to stop THE MADNESS now is the question.


So far down this rabbit hole.... so far.....

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No privacy left? Wrong ladies... still have my iPhone and iPad.

Most members of my "gun club" moved to iPhones years ago because of encryption. The three hold outs did so yesterday and today.

Edited by flatdawg
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Lets see if I got this straight

The FBI can’t find the hard drives to the terrorist’s computers

The two cell phones they did find were smashed to the point that no information can be extracted.


FBI finds one phone that is locked and encrypted they can’t get in.

According to the FBI if they can get into this phone they will be able to save the world for all mankind.


These terrorist’s made a hard drive disappear totally destroy two phones but was stupid enough to leave a phone with plan B and a company employee phone list for anyone to find.

Do you really believe that? 


Maybe you need to ask why did the FBI go to court were Apple was not allowed to be there.

Maybe you should ask why the judge made a decision without hearing Apples case.


Haven’t you ever noticed that when the government says this is one-time transgression

that in a very short time it’s that ship has sailed get over it.


             Compromise on any of your rights you lose liberty and freedom



                      No Surrender No Retreat and No COMPROMISE


You are right Sentinel.


Unfortunately, most americans willingly compromised for the (un)patriot act without thinking and

gave up an initial part of their liberties, trading it for "security". The remainder of such liberties

appears will be given away only needs a "shock and awe" event to close the deal and

those who allow fear to control their lives will be first in line.


It is pure psychology to those inside, and it seems to work quite well against those on the outside.

There is something not right about the investigation and the approach of the FBI. *IF* it was a case

of only wanting this info, nothing needed to be publicized...they could have gone to Apple covertly,

got their requested info without dragging in the drama. It was made public for a reason.

Edited by Jim1cor13
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Court filing from Department of Justice says Apple is more concerned with ‘its marketing strategy’ than helping FBI unlock San Bernardino shooter’s iPhone



Spencer Ackerman in New York and Danny Yadron in San Francisco


Friday 19 February 2016 21.09 GMT



The FBI accused Apple of prioritizing its public relations strategy over a terrorism investigation on Friday in a significant escalation of this week’s war between the tech company and the law enforcement agency.


The accusation, made in a court filing demanding Apple comply with an order to unlock an iPhone belonging to the San Bernardino terrorists, represents a nadir in the relationship between two opponents that previously extended each other public respect.


“Apple’s current refusal to comply with the Court’s Order, despite the technical feasibility of doing so, instead appears to be based on its concern for its business model and public brand marketing strategy,” Justice Department attorneys wrote in the Friday filing.


Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO, called the court order “chilling” in a letter published on the company’s website. Cook called for public debate and has been backed in his fight by some of tech’s biggest names, including Google’s chief executive Sundar Pichai, WhatsApp and whistleblower Edward Snowden.


“The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand,” he wrote.


The government and the US’s most valuable company have been shadowboxing over digital privacy since fall 2014, when Apple expanded the use of encryption on its phones. In a shift, Apple said it would no longer be able to unlock devices for authorities, even if faced with a warrant.


But the disagreement has been mostly cordial. Even in January 2016, FBI director James Comey and other national security officials met Tim Cook in San Jose in an effort to mend fences and look for other areas of cooperation.


The government on Friday took off its gloves.


It accused Apple of “numerous mischaracterizations” of the government’s request and “an incorrect understanding” of the law underlying the Justice Department argument.


The government has asked Apple to write and digitally sign software that would make it easier for investigators to guess the passcode for an iPhone 5C used by Syed Farook, one of the shooters in the December attack in San Bernardino, California, that left 14 people dead.


Apple said that forcing it to do so would undermine trust in the security of its company’s products. The government, in effect, would be forcing it to hack one of its phones through the automatic update process consumers use monthly.


“The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe,” Cook wrote.


If Apple complies with this order, the company argues, it will set a legal precedent that will allow the government to order “updates” on suspect’s Apple products again and again.


The problem, the government counters, is that Apple has complied with similar requests in the past, before it tightened the security of its products. In the past the government, says, it hasn’t made the same public protests.


A key government claim is that it is seeking access to one particular device, thereby limiting the danger to Apple’s security features, and would permit the company to retain possession of the specific code it would have to write to unlock the phone. The company maintains that once it does that, it sets a precedent that law enforcement officials would use at every opportunity when it cannot immediately unlock a suspect’s phone.


The Justice Department said Apple had cooperated under the law in previous cases and was falsely attempting to make a legal exemption for the iPhone Farook used. It also rejected Cook’s contention that it was being asked to introduce a security flaw onto its devices that would stretch beyond the current case.


Department lawyers made particular note of pre-2014 compliance the company gave, before it introduced a version of its mobile operating system that removed the company from possessing decryption keys for its users. They contend that Apple, as a provider of the secured communications, is inherently responsible for fulfilling warrant requests for third-party data.


“Just because Apple has sold the phone to a customer and that customer has created a passcode does not mean that the close software connection ceases to exist; Apple has designed the phone and software updates so that Apple’s continued involvement and connection is required,” the government lawyers contend.


The filing comes as the government is waging its own public relations battle over the increasing use of encryption by tech companies. For more than a year Comey has been pushing the Obama administration and Congress to regulate how companies like Apple use encryption that can stymie his agents. Both sides have declined, realizing that the FBI fought and lost a similar battle – the so called Crypto Wars – during the Clinton administration.


“At no point has Apple ever said that it does not have the technical ability to comply with the Order, or that the Order asks Apple to undertake an unreasonably challenging development task,” the government’s filing says. “On this point, Apple’s silence speaks volumes.”


But the government in its filing seems to acknowledge its legal push is about much more than gaining access to a single phone. Rather, it wants to ensure it can maintain access to any phone.


“Where Apple designed its software and that design interferes with the execution of search warrants… where it owns and licensed the software used to further the criminal enterprise, where it retains exclusive control over the source code necessary to modify and install the software, and where the very software must now be used to enable the search ordered by the warrant, compulsion of Apple is permissible,” the government says.


Apple has yet to file any formal response with the court. A hearing is scheduled in California for 22 March.



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