Marijuana Debate

[Whatshername]

Sorry about the short notice...

Marijuana Prohibition Is Unscientific, Unconstitutional And Unjust

By Jacob Sullum

Next Thursday (TODAY 5/21 9:00 - 11:00 am CST) I am scheduled to debate Robert White, co-author (with Bill Bennett) of Going to Pot: Why the Rush to Legalize Marijuana Is Harming America, on Glenn Beck’s radio show. Each of us will get half an hour or so to make his case before taking questions from Beck and each other. Here is what I plan to say:

Marijuana Prohibition Is Unscientific

A few days before the House of Representatives passed a federal ban on marijuana in June 1937, the Republican minority leader, Bertrand Snell of New York, confessed, “I do not know anything about the bill.” The Democratic majority leader, Sam Rayburn of Texas, educated him. “It has something to do with something that is called marihuana,” Rayburn said. “I believe it is a narcotic of some kind.”

That exchange gives you a sense of how much thought Congress gave marijuana prohibition before approving it. Legislators who had heard of the plant knew it as the “killer weed” described by Federal Bureau of Narcotics Commissioner Harry Anslinger, who claimed marijuana turned people into homicidal maniacs and called it “the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind.” Anslinger warned that “marihuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes” and estimated that half the violent crimes in areas occupied by “Mexicans, Greeks, Turks, Filipinos, Spaniards, Latin Americans, and Negroes may be traced to the use of marihuana.”

Given this background, no one should pretend that marijuana prohibition was carefully considered or that it was driven by science, as opposed to ignorance and blind prejudice. It is hard to rationally explain why Congress, less than four years after Americans had emphatically rejected alcohol prohibition, thought it was a good idea to ban a recreational intoxicant that is considerably less dangerous.

It is relatively easy, for example, to die from acute alcohol poisoning, since the ratio of the lethal dose to the dose that gives you a nice buzz is about 10 to 1. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 2,200 Americans die from alcohol overdoses each year. By contrast, there has never been a documented human death from a marijuana overdose. Based on extrapolations from animal studies, the ratio of the drug’s lethal dose to its effective dose is something like 40,000 to 1.

There is also a big difference between marijuana and alcohol when it comes to the long-term effects of excessive consumption. Alcoholics suffer gross organ damage of a kind that is not seen even in the heaviest pot smokers, affecting the liver, brain, pancreas, kidneys, and stomach. The CDC attributes more than 38,000 deaths a year to three dozen chronic conditions caused or aggravated by alcohol abuse.

Much more here... http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2015/05/14/marijuana-prohibition-is-unscientific-unconstitutional-and-unjust/

If you don't get Glenn Beck's radio Show in your area, you can listen here...

http://v6.player.abacast.net/2621

[jaman]

when I smoked....I thought I died, but. then I woke up and found I was really...REALLY stoned

[divemaster5734]

The robber baron is dead, (Hurst).

He got what he wanted, pot made illegal so we would have to read news papers made from trees.

He made his millions back after his intense campaign of lies and deceptions, and he;'s probably rotting in hell for all the persecution he has caused.(at least I hope he is)

His daughter hated him so much she rebelled by throwing in with a bunch of total losers, at least I think she's out of jail now.

 

It long past time to right that wrong.

Aside from being a fully organic product, crime has actually dropped in every state it has been legalized.

[divemaster5734]

The robber baron is dead, (Hurst).

He got what he wanted, pot made illegal so we would have to read news papers made from trees.

He made his millions back after his intense campaign of lies and deceptions, and he;'s probably rotting in hell for all the persecution he has caused.(at least I hope he is)

His daughter hated him so much she rebelled by throwing in with a bunch of total losers, at least I think she's out of jail now.

 

It long past time to right that wrong.

Aside from being a fully organic product, crime has actually dropped in every state it has been legalized.

 

 

OK, foot in mouth time.

Meant to say granddaughter.

It aint about them anyway, it's about fining this bs failed war on drugs.

[Whatshername]

In the interest of BALANCE... Bill Bennett and Robert White Discuss Their Brand New Book “Going to Pot: Why the Rush to Legalize Marijuana Is Harming America”

http://www.billbennett.com/audio/bill-bennett-robert-white-discuss-brand-new-book-going-pot-rush-legalize-marijuana-harming-america/

[Jim1cor13]

Many reasons for the many years of prohibition along with the

typical campaigns to demonize the plant by pure propaganda,

and it worked, as the lies spread by Harry Anslinger grew more

insane. Soon it would be "by prescription only" for the sake of

control by a few. The early days of big pharma also played a role

of course.

 

In the United States, marijuana prohibition began partly as a 'throw-in'

on laws restricting opiates and cocaine to prescription-only use, and

partly in Southern and Western states and cities where blacks and

Mexican immigrants were smoking it. Missouri outlawed opium and

hashish dens in 1889, but did not actually prohibit cannabis until 1935.

Massachusetts began restricting cannabis in its 1911 pharmacy law, and

three other New England states followed in the next seven years.

 

California's 1913 narcotics law banned possession of cannabis preparations

-- which California NORML head Dale Gieringer believes was a legal error, that

the provision was intended to parallel those affecting opium, morphine and cocaine.

The law was amended in 1915 to ban the sale of cannabis without a prescription.

 

New York City made cannabis prescription-only in 1914. A Colorado newspaper editor

wrote in 1936. "The fatal marihuana cigarette must be recognized as a DEADLY DRUG,

and American children must be PROTECTED AGAINST IT," the Hearst newspapers

editorialized.

Harry Anslinger, head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, headed the charge. "If the

hideous monster Frankenstein came face to face with the monster marihuana, he would

drop dead of fright," he thundered in 1937. The lies and fabrications were unrelenting.

 

  Amazing how the campaigns were able to work so well, the use of fear always gets

the job done. We see it today, same tactics, across many subjects, whatever it takes to

shape public opinion. In its proper use, responsibly, I know many people who use it for

medicinal reasons and it not only helps them greatly, with pain, etc., but no side effects

and no addicitve tendnecies like pharma potions.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Jim1cor13

[dog53]

medicinal purposes only 

 

 

 

[Whatshername]

  All good things in moderation?

 

[Jim1cor13]

Indeed WHN 

medicinal purposes only 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good one dog...those were some great movies.

[Sage449]

I used to be against Maryjane until I saw what it did for my friend that had leukemia - only thing that kept her alive and willing to eat after the kind of treatments she had to do. After that, I changed my mind - still not so gung-ho on recreational use - we've enough dumb @sses out there without adding drunks and stoners to the mess or driving on the road. BTW, more items are coming to light about it killing brain cells etc. so I'm not convinced that booze is worse; and some people do over react to being doped up and are getting killed. It seems to be on the food - apparently harder to curb the amount of the drug in food so with the munchies they over ingest and end up killing themselves either from over dosing or walking in front of a train, or jumping out of a window trying to fly.

Flame away - can't hurt me, I'll just light up and lala land. JK I don't even do straight butts.........

[RV ME]

  Amazing how the campaigns were able to work so well, the use of fear always gets

the job done. We see it today, same tactics, across many subjects, whatever it takes to

shape public opinion. In its proper use, responsibly, I know many people who use it for

medicinal reasons and it not only helps them greatly, with pain, etc., but no side effects

and no addicitve tendnecies like pharma potions.

 

WHAT???? WAIT!!!!  You mean Reefer Madness was just propaganda?

 

 

Used to often debate with my brother (who never smoked, but totaled 3 cars while drunk) which was worse, weed or alcohol (which is the true “gateway” drug for most people IMO).  He would never agree with me but couldn’t explain why his auto insurance was so much more expensive than mine.

[69mustang]

If we're going to legalize this, why not coke, heroine, PCP, etc?

[Jim1cor13]

  RV ME 

 

I remember that movie, and how everyone was affected by it for a short time.

The target was the kids, who did not know any better, of course, get them

whilst they are young, and pump that propaganda in.

 

i bet your brother would have been much better off rolling one, rather than

drinking one    I have always thought alcohol was much worse, due to how

it can often feed into violence, while I never saw a violent MJ user in all my years,

on the contrary, they were always subdued in a good way, and those who were

normally agressive types, also were calm and actually decent, for a short time.

[Jim1cor13]

If we're going to legalize this, why not coke, heroine, PCP, etc?

 

Compare the qualities of cannabis to those you mentioned, the only one

that has been used for thousands of years and has no lasting side effects,

nor does physical damage is cannabis. Do some history checking on heroine

for example, and how it got into the public, and for what reasons.

[puckster_guy]

They'll only legalize it so they can make a killing on the tax revenue. Besides they can't stop the widespread use so they might as well make some money from it.

[divemaster5734]

While I'll bet if alcohol was newly invented it would not be legal either, it is legal.

 

It is understood that a glass of wine a day has medicinal values, but a bottle a day brings only problems.

 

Adults are left to make their own decision as to how much they will consume.

 

Pot has far more positive benefits than alcohol, yet people have been locked up for 20 years for possession of as little as one joint.

 

The hypocrisy is blatant. 

 

The entire "war" on drugs is a total bust.

 

All it has done was funded billions of dollars into even more oppressive policies and practices, created insanely wealthy bad guys, and victimized millions of innocents. 

 

It is time for Americans to stand up and force the government to stop preying on us.

 

From the gangs of speed trap cops, to the federal thugs with guns,(just name almost any department in HS), to judges and prosecutors that pad their yearly bonuses with bad convictions they know will never be reversed because the person they just screwed is too broke or scared to fight back, to all those authority abusing jackboots that are convinced they are "elites" because they have police authority, it is out of control.

 

Just because a cop is civil to you while they are giving you a ticket after trumping up an infraction doesn't mean what they are doing is right, because they are the ones with the guns and they will shoot you if they feel like it.

 

Our only survivable action is to simply submit, endure the abuse, and hope some bystander is recording.

 

That is not freedom.

 

We are not free.

 

We are slaves to our government oppressors, this whole bs war on drugs is nothing more than a symptom of the illness.

 

If the governments oppression is cancer, the war on drugs is just a stinking runny nose.

 

This country is about to self-destruct, I don't really care who is smoking a joint, it's the dirt bag official that has me scared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thegente]

If we're going to legalize this, why not coke, heroine, PCP, etc?

All of the drugs mentioned above are refined to a lethal purity with chemicals. Marijuana is a plant that grows wild that has many health benefits....BIG DIFFERENCE. A media fear campaign, uniformed decision making, along with the fact that tobacco, pharmaceutical and alcohol companies have been lobbying against it for the last century, those are the reasons it has been declared illegal. Alcohol and pharmaceutical drugs kill far more people than illicit drugs like heroin and coke. Alcohol more is a FAR more dangerous drug than marijuana. How many stoners do you know that smoke a few joints and then go home and beat their wives, or kill people in car wrecks? And I've never heard of someone OD'ing on MJ. Maybe they ate too much Taco Bell or Ice Cream and fell asleep on the couch, but that's about the worst of it....

Please do some more research on the subject, I think you will be surprised by what you read. Hope this helps!!

A few examples:

 

 

Benefits of Cannabis:

http://www.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2014-4?op=1

http://www.naturalnews.com/033757_cannabis_oil_cancer_cure.html

Pharmaceutical drugs kill more Americans than Heroin and Coke:

http://www.businessinsider.com/painkillers-kill-more-americans-than-heroin-and-cocaine-2012-9

 

[thegente]

Oh, and we already tried Prohibition with alcohol in the 20's, and just look how well THAT worked out. It's what made the Mob an underworld superpower.... Making something illegal won't stop the end user/buyer, all it does is feed the government beast, and make billions for criminal cartels.

Even if all of the drugs you mentioned were made legal, how many people including yourself are going to start banging lines of coke everyday, or slamming heroin into their arm? There might be a small spike, but I think most who aren't doing it now, ain't gonna start.

[Bandit795]

The Mexican cartels are actually furious that marijuana is now legal in some states. They're losing revenue.

[RV ME]

I used to be against Maryjane until I saw what it did for my friend that had leukemia - only thing that kept her alive and willing to eat after the kind of treatments she had to do. After that, I changed my mind - still not so gung-ho on recreational use - we've enough dumb @sses out there without adding drunks and stoners to the mess or driving on the road. BTW, more items are coming to light about it killing brain cells etc. so I'm not convinced that booze is worse; and some people do over react to being doped up and are getting killed. It seems to be on the food - apparently harder to curb the amount of the drug in food so with the munchies they over ingest and end up killing themselves either from over dosing or walking in front of a train, or jumping out of a window trying to fly.

Flame away - can't hurt me, I'll just light up and lala land. JK I don't even do straight butts.........

The only deaths attributed to the legalization of marijuana that I know of have been not from smoking it, but by eating food or candy that has been infused with the (some?) of the chemicals derived from the natural plant.  To me, that is kind of like comparing chewing on a natural coca leaf vs doing a line of cocaine.  The natural substance is not the problem, it is only after it is refined and concentrated.  When used naturally, as God made it, you cannot OD on marijuana.

[Nelg]

Anything that you take that steals your brain should never be considered as an option.  Alcohol, Marijuana, or any other drug that we create for the love of momentary pleasure but has a destructive element that clouds our mind or causes us to do stupid things . . . even killing others . . . are to be avoided at all costs.  

 

The only use of a drug should be under the supervision of doctors in hospitals.  ANY recreational drug is dangerous and corruptive to the mind.  ANY thinking person will avoid them at all cost.   

[Whatshername]

Anything that you take that steals your brain should never be considered as an option.  Alcohol, Marijuana, or any other drug that we create for the love of momentary pleasure but has a destructive element that clouds our mind or causes us to do stupid things . . . even killing others . . . are to be avoided at all costs.  

 

The only use of a drug should be under the supervision of doctors in hospitals.  ANY recreational drug is dangerous and corruptive to the mind.  ANY thinking person will avoid them at all cost.

That sounds correct in theory, Nelg... but unrealistic in practice. I wonder what percentage of humans reach for comfort in any form, of a body or mind-altering substance. I'm guessing it's pretty high (no pun intended) and would be higher with legal access.

BTW... Jim1cor13 will be around soon to school you on the evils of the pharmaceutical industry!

[Jim1cor13]

 

The only use of a drug should be under the supervision of doctors in hospitals.

 

Nelg, you may want to reconsider your advice, based upon the stats, as to who or

what is actually more dangerous.

 

 

Death by medicine is a 21st-century epidemic, and America's "war on drugs" is clearly

directed at the wrong enemy! Prescription drugs are now killing far more people than

illegal drugs, and while most major causes of preventable deaths are declining, those

from prescription drug use are increasing, an analysis of recently released data from

the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) by the Los Angeles Times

revealed.

 

The Times analysis of 2009 death statistics, the most recent available, showed:

• For the first time ever in the US, more people were killed by drugs than motor vehicle accidents
• 37,485 people died from drugs, a rate fueled by overdoses on prescription pain and anxiety medications, versus 36,284 from traffic accidents
• Drug fatalities more than doubled among teens and young adults between 2000 and 2008, and more than tripled among people aged 50 to 69

Again, these drug-induced fatalities are not being driven by illegal street drugs; the analysis found that the most commonly abused prescription drugs like OxyContin, Vicodin, Xanax and Soma now cause more deaths than heroin and cocaine combined.

 

Add to this the numbers from 2000 - 2010, and we are well over 452,000 DEATHS, now well over that number, plus the serious consequences due to pharma drugs administered by their dealers, causing numerous problems. So these doctors were doing the

"responsible" thing that you advise, and do these numbers mean anything? How many more deaths and related suffering will

we allow as these numbers grow?

 

I have personally known too many people that have been hurt by modern pharma, and too many doctors, 

over the years, and it is getting worse. So I would reconsider the thinking that somehow one

can justify placing anyone is this kind of scenario. It is getting to be one large 'lab experiment',

and yet the majority still think this is "normal".

No, I am not schooling anyone, just presenting the facts that too many

ignore for the sake of bowing to an industry that hurts too many people

and is considered normal. This is how blind we have become about these

issues that no one seems to care about. The pharma industry is not some

sacred institution like some treat it.

[Whatshername]

Just messin' with you Jim! I saw you down there and couldn't resist... I knew you'd say it... and better than I could!

[divemaster5734]

 

No, I am not schooling anyone, just presenting the facts that too many

ignore

 Excellent point.

 

Big Pharma is the single largest donor to every major medical school.

 

I have friends that are doctors that complain their single biggest pest is the drug reps peddling their wares.

 

Pharmacies report every doctors prescription, which is then used as a marketing tool by the reps.

 

New med students are taught to treat symptoms with chemicals, only allowing the patient to experience relief one dose at a time, making sure to leave them dependent on pharma's daily blessing.

An online alternate paper, unfiltered news, is even now actively engaged in WIKI monitoring and article replacement, as all articles related to natural cures are scrubbed within hours of each post by hordes of pharma employees that constantly scour the internet, altering, deleting, or otherwise "correcting" forums, bbs's, and articles that may deter future customers.

 

It is a pitched battle that takes place every day.