BREAKING: VA Colluding With FBI To Disarm Veterans

[Markinsa]

BREAKING: VA Colluding With FBI To Disarm Veterans

 

 

Robert Gehl ROBERT GEHL APRIL 22, 2015

Last week, we reported on the news that more than 99 percent of the “mental defectives” listed on Eric Holder’s “gun ban” list are U.S. Military veterans.

 

We now know that the VA is actively trying to disarm these veterans by getting them placed on this list.

 

The Daily Caller is reporting that the Veterans Administration is sending veterans’ personal medical and financial information directly to the FBI and the ATF so their guns can be seized.

 

Some of the veterans who were deemed “mental defectives” are beginning to speak out, despite fearing for their own and their families’ safety. The Daily Caller details that it all starts when a vet goes to the VA looking for help

 

Here’s what we know:

 

VA medical information is used to block veterans from possessing firearms:

 

The Daily Caller obtained a “MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS AND THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION REGARDING THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM.”

 

The document, dated Feb. 27, 2012, makes clear the VA must send health information to the FBI for its gun background-check database.

 

“VA will provide an encrypted compact disc exchanged via mail to the FBI no less than quarterly for, inter alia, inclusion in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS),” the memo reads.

 

The memo defines the NICS database as a list of “persons prohibited under federal law from receiving or possessing firearms.”

 

“Data disclosed by VA to the FBI under the terms of this agreement is to be entered into the NICS Index…”

 

The VA puts you on the list if they say you can’t handle your “financial affairs”:

 

“…VA provides the Department of Justice a monthly list of individuals who have been rated by VA as being unable to manage their VA benefits,” according to a federal government “frequently asked questions” document obtained by TheDC.

 

The VA information technology center in Austin, Texas sends the FBI “a monthly CD” containing names of new veterans being added to the list.

 

The number of veterans who are tracked “fluctuates,” according to the memorandum, but “There were 129,440 beneficiaries in the program as of July 12, 2012.”

 

Changing your method of banking can get you put on the list:

 

“A [VA] counselor named Dr. Blair says, ‘How are you handling your finances?’,” veteran Henry Wrobel of Canton, Texas told TheDC. “I said my wife suggested, to make it a little bit easier for me, maybe use the auto-debit instead of going to the post office because it’s hard for me to drive” with injuries including two “made-up thumbs” resulting from 12 hand surgeries, a wired-on shoulder, and other ailments.

 

“I told him it’s working very well,” Wrobel said. The counselor “wrote down that I was unable to handle my own finances and that ‘his wife handles his finances.’ I got a letter saying that because I can’t handle my finances I’m like a felon and I can’t be around guns.”

 

“I had a pistol permit in Connecticut at 21, and the only things against me are one speeding ticket and two parking tickets. My constitutional rights, my dignity, means nothing to” the counselor, Wrobel said. “I have no crimes whatsoever against me, and now I’m stripped of my constitutional rights as though I’m a felon.”

 

Wrobel, who is starting a miniature trucking company, said, “My wife has been appointed my fiduciary as though I’m a retarded child… I’m not a dummy, I’m disabled. There’s a difference.”

 

Wrobel blamed America’s “anti-gun president” for trying to “break the spirit of America” by taking away veterans’ guns.

 

 

 

ATF agents will come to your house to disarm you:

 

“I was getting real sick from the medications they had me on,” Colorado war veteran Douglas Szklarski told TheDC. “I pretty much lived in bed. Somebody brought me a joint. I started using cannabis. It started turning me around immediately. So I said I wouldn’t [take the VA pills] anymore. They said you have to take them. They deemed me incompetent.”

 

“I’ve had like nine doctors say I wasn’t incompetent and they still went after my guns.”

 

“ATF came to my house. I had to surrender them,” Szklarski said, noting that he appealed the VA’s decision. “I just got my guns back.”

 

“Certain veterans they put you on a list, and if you’re on the list you don’t get help from them. The more you complain the more they attack you.”

 

Szklarski said that the VA erroneously labeled him an alcoholic and threatened him with arrest when he said he planned to protest their decision publicly.

 

“They tried to do everything they could to break me and they’re pissed that they didn’t.”

 

“It’s not even humane. You want to talk about discrimination, become a vet.”

 

War widows are threatened by the federal government:

 

“The VA, without going through any of the courts, made the determination that my mother was incapable of handling her finances, which isn’t true, and so she can’t handle firearms,” Lawrence, a retired serviceman and son of a Vietnam War widow, told TheDC.

 

“In her case she had a mild stroke and we were requesting additional assistance from the VA to get someone to do cooking and house chores,” Lawrence said. “They made a determination that she’s incompetent and incapable of handling her finances, which is totally untrue because she set up many of her accounts to have money automatically deducted from her account so she wouldn’t miss them. I do the same thing.”

 

“A doctor said she’s not incompetent, but they’ve still required my mother to have a fiduciary. It’s a totally bogus claim by the VA. My understanding is that a determination has to be made in a court of law based on a doctor’s analysis.”

 

“They were sending notices to my mother to the wrong address. This whole thing is just a total mess.”

 

Lawrence said that his mother, who lives in a secluded area with long police wait times, did not own any firearms when she was deemed incompetent, but that he’s concerned about how the information is being used against her.

 

“What concerns me is they basically have taken away one of her constitutional rights without due process,” he said. “They said that they would maintain all this information in just the VA database, so if she were to go out and get a firearm they said sure. But we found out that they send all that information to the FBI and ATF etc. They basically lied to us there. And it’s like a no-fly list. Once you get on it, you can’t get off.”

 

“They actually threatened to withhold her benefits if she didn’t sign up for a fiduciary. She lost her husband in Vietnam! She’s entitled to those benefits. How they can turn around and say she isn’t entitled to them? It sounded like a threat. When the federal government makes a threat, it puts the fear of God into you.”

 

Veterans across the country are at risk:

 

“The [FBI] memo is particularly troubling to us because it makes it clear that the FBI is rubber-stamping the lists of veterans being sent to it by the VA and placing these veterans on the NICS list under the category of people being declared to have been ‘adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution.’” Michael Connelly, executive director of the United States Justice Foundation, told TheDC. “In fact, there is no adjudication process for the veterans and it is clear that the FBI and the VA are equating not paying ones bills on time with mental illness.”

 

“Some of the veterans we represent have been put on the list simply because they let their spouses pay the family bills or even have the bills paid automatically every month by the bank,” said Connelly, who flagged the documents provided to TheDC for this report. “There is a total lack of due process here, and it is never mentioned in the memo. The burden of proof is on the veterans and even if they succeed in getting the incompetency ruling reversed the VA is apparently not informing the DOJ of that so the veterans stay on the NICS list. Some veterans say that they send the info to the FBI that still refuses to move them from the list.”

 

The VA refuses to admit fault.

 

“The Department of Veterans Affairs’ policy to inform veterans of their rights regarding the Brady Act has not changed,” VA told TheDC in a statement. “As has been policy for multiple administrations, VA acts in accordance with federal law and works with the Department of Justice to properly maintain the NICS database. VA notifies any veteran who may be deemed by VA to be mentally incapable of managing his or her own funds of the opportunity to contest this determination and also to seek relief from the reporting requirements under the Brady Act, as required by law.”

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

***///

 

hobummer & his masters hate us Vets.  

 

... makes us put a 'V' designation on our driver licences - We're 'BRANDED' so they know who/where we are...

 

... to get targeted and rounded up when he declares martial law so he can take us out of the mix and not have to

 

deal with us trying to defend Our Republic from his kind...

 

We're walking around with targets on our backs.... there are more of US on DHS 'lists' than terrorists !

 

 

Using the VA to gather info about our guns, banking, etc is such a kommie move by this kommie.

 

 

Tell the VA it's none of their business.  

 

Tell them the precedent has been legally set by this administration:

 

if lois lerner doesn't have to answer and she gets rewarded,

 

and every VA administrator hasn't answered questions and have been rewarded,

 

then, neither do you.

 

Tell them if they then brand you as a "non-cooperative", you're getting a lawyer....

 

Hmmmnn....

wonder if the ACLU, poverty law center and their ilk would ever come to the defence of US Military Vets...?

[divemaster5734]

Every time I go the VA and every new person I speak to, always ask the same battery of questions.

Whatever you do, DO NOT tell them you have any lawful firearms, unless you are willing to lose it just because you are a vet...DM

 

 

 

Documents obtained by The Daily Caller and interviews with American veterans reveal a shocking government program: The Department of Veterans Affairs is disarming America’s veterans by getting them placed on the FBI’s criminal background-check list.

The VA sends veterans’ personal medical and financial information directly to the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, which can seize their guns in home raids.

Veterans deemed mentally incompetent or financially incapable are finally speaking out about the errors in the system and the fearful harassment they and their families face from the federal government. And it all starts when vets go to the VA to get medical help.

Here’s what we know:

 

VA medical information is used to block veterans from possessing firearms:

The Daily Caller obtained a “MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS AND THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION REGARDING THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM.”

The document, dated Feb. 27, 2012, makes clear the VA must send health information to the FBI for its gun background-check database.

“VA will provide an encrypted compact disc exchanged via mail to the FBI no less than quarterly for, inter alia, inclusion in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS),” the memo reads.

The memo defines the NICS database as a list of “persons prohibited under federal law from receiving or possessing firearms.”

“Data disclosed by VA to the FBI under the terms of this agreement is to be entered into the NICS Index…”

Edited April 25, 2015 by Markinsa
Merged Topics

[Markinsa]

I posted an article similar to this one yesterday:

 

BREAKING: VA Colluding With FBI To Disarm Veterans

 

 

.

[The Machine]

hey i'm with you on the right to bare arms  ....... but anybody mentally incompetant should not access to a weapon.

 

 

I dont believe in disarming veterans ....... they're the people who deserve weapons ..... they have earned the right

 

 

 

I think the right to bare arms should be only allowed to those who put there lives on the line ........

 

 

 

at least that way the guns would be in the hands of those that know the concequences of pulling the trigger

 

 

and no those who pull the trigger "just to see what happens"

Edited April 25, 2015 by The Machine

[Markinsa]

hey i'm with you on the right to bare arms  ....... but anybody mentally incompetant should not access to a weapon.

 

But 99.9% of us aren't incompetent, what happens is, they ask us questions like, "Do you feel like harming yourself?, "Have you been depressed?" etc, etc, and then put that in their computer, so we have to be real careful on how we answer questions like that.

 

.

[The Machine]

But 99.9% of us aren't incompetent, what happens is, they ask us questions like, "Do you feel like harming yourself?, "Have you been depressed?" etc, etc, and then put that in their computer, so we have to be real careful on how we answer questions like that.

 

.

 

I didnt say you were all incompetet ........ I just said that those who are mentally incompetant should not access to a weapon ...... it sounds like common sence but it's too easy to get access to firearms in the US.

[Markinsa]

I didnt say you were all incompetet ........ I just said that those who are mentally incompetant should not access to a weapon ...... it sounds like common sence but it's too easy to get access to firearms in the US.

 

I know you didn't, I just wanted to clarify what was going on.

[divemaster5734]

I posted an article similar to this one yesterday:

 

BREAKING: VA Colluding With FBI To Disarm Veterans

 

 

.

 

Had I seen the post I definitely would not have reposed, my apologies.

 

But 99.9% of us aren't incompetent, what happens is, they ask us questions like, "Do you feel like harming yourself?, "Have you been depressed?" etc, etc, and then put that in their computer, so we have to be real careful on how we answer questions like that.

 

.

 

Have noticed the barrage of questions getting more and more leading every time I go in.

It's not just a matter of "preventative" medicine, they are intentionally looking for anything they can twist into an issue.

Even the most innocent of responses can be turned into a controversy.

[Nelg]

They will NEVER find out where I purchased my weapons, and never find where they are hidden.  And, yes, I can get to one right now simply by reaching .  . . . now do really think I would tell.  

 

The first phase or action when a government wants to control a country is to remove all weapons.  They do not want a population that has the ability to fight back.  

 

Second, gradually infiltrate the leadership in government with individuals dedicated to controlling the country "for the peoples on good." 

 

Third, remove the leaders capable of organizing a resistance movement.

 

Fourthly, gradually impose laws that give the government more control of the peoples finances while bringing them to a state of dependence on the government.  

 

Fifthly, develop a security force who are dedicated and loyal to the present leadership outside the ranks of existing forces of military and police.  (Manipulate the information to these units to control their usefulness.)

 

Sixth, take over without a fight.  (They think.)

[nstoolman1]

I and my family get those questions also and we are not a "military" family. My instructions to the wife and 2 daughters: No you don't have any

guns in the house. It is not just a vet problem. When they ask do I have any hobbies that require hearing protection I answer No.

[Markinsa]

Had I seen the post I definitely would not have reposed, my apologies.

 

 

Have noticed the barrage of questions getting more and more leading every time I go in.

It's not just a matter of "preventative" medicine, they are intentionally looking for anything they can twist into an issue.

Even the most innocent of responses can be turned into a controversy.

 

 

I went ahead and merged the topics.  

 

.

[Xtaxguy]

The corrupt and incompetent bosses of the VA are pushing this to protect their own ******.  Even the worst ***** in the world are smart enough to now that some day there will be serious blow back on them of the **** they've been dumping on others.  They know they have the full support of our first female president, but they'd do it anyway to preserve their RICO empires.

 

The VA's ONLY function in re medical care should be to determine eligibility, at which time a card useable at any willing health care provider facility should be given, and the provider paid at rates equal to or higher than Medicare rates (particularly for line of duty related injuries and without copays or preapproval requirements from idiot clerks).  The bastards the new Secretary said he can't fire should be transferred to paper filing (not reviewing, vetting, etc., just alphabetize and store) facilities in, say, Northern Greenland, with only ship transportation available for vacations.  The good licensed providers would quickly be snapped up by the best hospitals and rehab centers, and would almost certainly be much more fulfilled by better pay, less BS, far better facilities ad support, rational rules, and distance from venal political *******.  

 

How in the hell did we ever get federally owned hospitals in the first place?  Give the performance of the feds in absolutely every other endeavor they have kept in house, how could anyone think that anyone but the worthless bureaucrats would be better off with vets going to federal hospitals than anywhere else.  I'm eligible, but I have always chosen private providers at my own expense. Same as every other male (and several females) in my extended family that has never missed a war.  I saw Letterman General Hospital (active duty Army high end facility at the Presidio of  San Francisco) and several large VA hospitals to which some of Letterman's patients were transferred after discharge.  All reminded me of the Circles of Hell in Dante's inferno, to say nothing of Catch-22 and other works on the same subject.

 

There must be 15 or 20 million vets alive today.  Our numbers will decline steadily and rapidly in the near future (the youngest Viet Nam vets are about to go on Medicare, and the military shrank greatly after that).  We've got to fix this before we leave.  I have never talked to a general who wasn't appalled at what, if anything, he had seen at most VA hospitals, or at what, if anything, he saw others encounter in trying to deal with the VA empire.  All those stars and not one has stepped up to lead a very loud and aggressive vet group to force a total overhaul of the current rotted out system.  But the boys with purses throw their little tantrums and the pols and MSM fall all over themselves apologizing and turning our culture upside down to accommodate their every whim.  Guess those stars don't necessarily mean you're a leader with a pair, do they?  Now I do recall a couple of Sergeants Major who would have been up to the task, but damn, if they're still around they're in their mid-80's. 

 

If a little digging were done, I'll bet we'd find the following: 

 

*   the 'crats making up this nut list are not licensed to make such evaluations;

 

*   the criteria for adding someone to this list are not medically nor legally valid;

 

*   the disclosure of this privileged information is in violation of HIPPA and other privacy laws and contrary to the state laws that govern the licensing of the physicians and other providers;

 

*   the 'crats doing this dirty deed are illegally practicing medicine without licenses;

 

*   the whole procedure and letter of understanding on which it is based is a violation of the federal procedure laws regarding the promulgation of Regulations (in other words, it's just an illegal written conspiracy between out of control bureaucrats to beat down people they don't like);

 

*   VA and other admin "spokespersons" will shortly gear up to do their own version of the Hillarious two-step on this topic. 

 

Any half-wit money motivated attorney could time up an army of federal lawyers for years on these issues, during which time hundreds of other good causes of action could no doubt be discovered.  But the right route is to convince Congress that this whole mess must be fixed NOW.  We can shame them.  We can fund their opponents.  We can cajole them.  We can threaten them.  We can investigate, arrest, indict and convict them (the majority no doubt have not too well hidden felonious skeletons about).  We can convince them that we will do one or more of each of these things to each and every one of them unless they put together a reform package we like, vote it through, and override the veto that would no doubt come from the cowardly kitty in the White House. 

 

Well golly.  I guess somebody pulled my chain.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2015 by Markinsa
Language | See Forum Rules

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

***///  

 

Hats off to all participating here.  Good talk.  

Nice to know we are not alone in our mindset re: all this bullsh** they're putting us through.... 

XTAXGUY -- great post. 

[George Hayduke]

I am a VN vet and an Iraq vet (if you count PSC) and have seen PTSD from both theaters. While I would not diminish the challenges service members with PTSD must face each day, I began to notice about five years ago an uptick in the ease with which young service members were so easily granted disability status for PTSD after leaving the service.  Around that same time Sen. Feinstein made a number of public comments regarding Iraqi veterans diagnosed as mentally incapacitated and that they should be denied access to weapons.

 

A number of young soldiers I served with in the sandbox were quite relieved when they began receiving their disability checks and asked me if I had applied for the PTSD diagnosis.  I warned them that a day is coming where the VA, BATF and Homeland Security will have their names on a 'risky persons' list and may come knocking at their  door.  I've told my 'Nam brothers the same thing.

 

Unfortunately, once you are diagnosed with PTSD and have revealed you have access to weapons you then,  can't 'un-ring the bell'.  I don't know what the answer is for those who have already crossed that line but, I know I will live with my PTSD with the guidance from the Lord and the faithfulness and support of a loving wife while I keep my bad dreams beneath my bed along side my rifle. 

 

GH 

 

Edited April 26, 2015 by George Hayduke

[Jim1cor13]

Thank you George for sharing your experiences and also thank you for your service.

 

I find it incredible how so many veterans are treated by the VA. The lack of interest

that appears to exist, the lack of concern in general is baffling to me. Vets are often

treated with contempt which tells me there is a real problem and a real disconnect.

 

I have known several folks who served in vietnam, and they had many issues they

dealt with daily that most never knew about. Of course part of it is that these young

men and women were called upon to perform their service in a hostile environment

that maybe one is never truly prepared for after the fact. In any case, the treatment

vets in my opinion is beyond reprehensible. I do not give a pass to a vet who acts

like an idiot, or goes beyond the call of duty to harm innocents as some have, but

overall, our vets should be treated with both respect and compassion just due to

what they have endured within their service duties when sent to the most hostile

areas.

 

I would think every one in some way returns changed, sometimes it is a good change,

sometimes it is a painful one, but for sure, something changes within those who see

things and experience things no person should have to.

[Sentinel7]

Simple fact of life and simple rule to live by.

No one outside those that live in your house needs to know what is in your house or what goes on in your house.

 

Always remember everything you say or do can be used against you.

 

ALWAYS REMEMBER YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS

 

If you use social media keep it neutral and politically correct Sell all firearms now before laws change to prevent you from selling to private citizens without tracking and background checks. If the laws in your state have already changed then make sure receipts show dates before law went into effect.

Acquire cheap throwaway firearms that you are willing to allow to be confiscated

Keep your sold firearms well hidden and out of conservation at all cost.

 Investigate and acquire alternative weaponry 

 

Build Co-ops or bands of brothers for security and trading keep them small and organized

French underground good example.

 

We are now living in an ever-expanding police state and the time to prepare is now.

The government likes to take you down one at a time they like us divided, separate and fearful.

 

REMEMBER YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS

We must think of ourselves as Jews in Nazi Germany in order to survive

 

 

          No Surrender No Retreat and No Compromise  

  

 

[SgtFuryUSCZ]

***///

 

SENTINEL:  Roger that. 

Become your own OathKeepers

[dog53]

Like everything you said Sentinel17 

I believe there will come a time where instead of a all volunteer army like we have now .

It will be a all drafted army. Who in there right mind is going to volunteer when you know soon as your out your 2nd amendment rights go down the drain. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keep em clean and keep them loaded.

[Muleslayer]

Build Co-ops or bands of brothers for security and trading keep them small and organized

French underground good example.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/201246-breaking-va-colluding-with-fbi-to-disarm-veterans/#ixzz3YZAHuyYM

Something that Rayzur turned me on to.

A.N.T.S google it!

P.s. Anybody heard from Rayzur lately?

She looks way better than Sandfly!

Edited April 28, 2015 by Muleslayer