After 4 years, Banished to the LOPster tank for my opinion.

[umbertino]

Thanks

Also as with anything else just written by men the entirety is open to interpretation.

In the sense that anything and everything can be debated? I agree

[SocalDinar]

The First Websters Dictionary in 1828 defined Unicorn as a Rhino.  Nothing stated about a horse or horse like animal

[Nelg]

Thanks

Also as with anything else just written by men the entirety is open to interpretation.

God used men to write the Bible, He is the Author.  The writers were instruments to accomplish giving of the Bible to mankind.  They were inspired by the Spirit and as such gave us the truth that God wanted us to hear.  Unfortunately the translations are in the hands of man.  Too many are relying on translations that are dubious in places.  Thankfully, the contested translations are few and have are know to be difficult and are inconsequential to the major message of Scripture.  

Interpretations is a different matter.  Interpretations is the process one goes through to determine the meaning and understanding of the texts being considered.  

[SocalDinar]

Oh, Im sorry about that, I did not mean to offend you in anyway and meant no disrespect.

Its just that my God does not Author books.

[Nelg]

Oh, Im sorry about that, I did not mean to offend you in anyway and meant no disrespect.

Its just that my God does not Author books.

Not offended in the least.  It is just an explanation of what took place.  The Bible (books) were given by God through men and collected by men shortly after they were given.  It's simply part of the process.  Some individuals get the "interpretation" and the "translation" process confused.  

[RVPleaseToday]

"Thankfully, the contested translations are few and have are know to be difficult and are inconsequential to the major message of Scripture."

 

​That's just not true.

 

I've studied in college both new testament greek and old testament hebrew, and the translation problems are huge. Old Testament Hebrew lacked vowels and punctuation. When combined with cultural meanings we have no hope of understanding, any kind of accurate translation is always a challenge. We use textual criticism to attempt to sort this stuff out; but, in the end, it is often a guess.

 

The biggest problem, though, is that we simply have no way of knowing who actually wrote most of the books of the Bible, what their agendas were, and how the original manuscripts were altered over time to support various views that changed constantly.

 

Belief in God is a matter of faith, not of fact.

Edited March 17, 2015 by RVPleaseToday

[Nelg]

Difficulties in translation do exist in the Scripture, that is not in question.  But scholars are continually searching to find a word to translate the meaning to each generation.  Our English, French, Spanish, etc. translators do the same thing as they try to communicate the Bible into particular languages.  Knowing the "original" meaning of a particular word in Hebrew, Aramaic, or ancient Greek is more difficult, and no one questions that.  I still maintain that those difficulties in translation are not major portions of Scripture nor do they involve a radical change in the meaning of the texts where they are found.  

Liberal scholarship and liberal critics have always been convinced that their job was to undermine the validity of biblical revelation.  Sadly they have found teaching positions in major universities that also seek to eliminate the foundations of biblical truth.  I have been in their classes; though long ago. It is their agenda to prove that the biblical texts are not from God but from men alone.  In doing so they seek to undermine the authority of the biblical texts.  Their rejection of the Bible as God's word is fundamental, they think, to releasing students from their "mythological" beliefs of the past.  Unfortunately, the world has a leaning in that direction as well.  The world does not want any type of God that makes man accountable for the lives they live, and the biblical record tells of God that calls men to be accountable for their actions.  

 

Most of the biblical texts (Old and New Testament) writers are know, but a few of the books or letters do have a question of just who penned the writing.  The writer of the material is important to in some respects, but not important as far as authorship is concerned.  Personally, I question just who the writer is of some books or letters, but I never question the Authorship.  I know that it comes from the Holy Spirit inspired person, and as such, it is the word of God.  The letter to the Hebrews is a good example.  The writer is not know, but the qualities and character of the book indicate that it is inspired revelation.  

Again, it is not the writer of the mss, but the Author that is important, and that Author was God.

 

By the way, "...faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."  For one to have "faith in God" one must have a reason, and reason is based on evidence or facts.  

Edited March 17, 2015 by Nelg

[Shabibilicious]

The most important question is........is "RV on my mind" still stuck in the Tank?    

 

GO RV, then BV

[RVPleaseToday]

"By the way, "...faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."  For one to have "faith in God" one must have a reason, and reason is based on evidence or facts."

 

You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. 

[Nelg]

"By the way, "...faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."  For one to have "faith in God" one must have a reason, and reason is based on evidence or facts."

 

You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. 

Not all "evidence" can be seen.  

[Nelg]

"By the way, "...faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."  For one to have "faith in God" one must have a reason, and reason is based on evidence or facts."

 

You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. 

By the way, there is not contradiction in this statement.  

[Jim1cor13]

Truth is, there is no need for any books, writings, traditions of men

in order for one to 'hear and see' enough to understand spiritual matters.

 

These are matters written on ones heart that have nothing to do with dogma

creed, etc. Religion demands submission, often submission to myths and

fables that are passed down which has nothing at all to do with 'knowing'

or understanding spiritual matters. Those who refuse submission to religious

dogma are then told they will be forever tormented, supposedly by the same

god who loves them. There is no life within this kind of control, only fear, lies

and bondage.

[RVPleaseToday]

Yep. As Dave Mason sang:

 

"So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye.

There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy,
There's only you and me and we just disagree."

Edited March 19, 2015 by RVPleaseToday

[Markinsa]

You guys probably won't understand this, but let's give it a try.

 

---

 

Luke 16:19-31

New Living Translation (NLT)

 

19 Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury. 20 At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus who was covered with sores. 21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.

 

22 “Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side.

 

24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’

 

25 “But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’

 

27 “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. 28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’

 

29 “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’

 

30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’

 

31 “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

.

[Nelg]

 

You guys probably won't understand this, but let's give it a try.

 

---

 

Luke 16:19-31

New Living Translation (NLT)

 

19 Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury. 20 At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus who was covered with sores. 21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.

 

22 “Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side.

 

24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’

 

25 “But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’

 

27 “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. 28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’

 

29 “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’

 

30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’

 

31 “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

.

 

Taught this section of Scripture last night.  

Thanks.  

[Bumper64]

I would like to applaud everyone in the last few pages of this thread.  It has been a long time since we have had a mature and intelligent debate without name calling and just being plain  ugly towards each other in the tank and I want to thank all of you for that as I have actually enjoyed reading this thread, good job everyone!!

 

       

[RV on my mind]

So Bumper64,  Since I started this thread and you liked it, Do I get any brownie points that will maybe get me released from the tank?   

 

LOL! Thought maybe worth a try?   

[SnowGlobe7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xjbO-0qaDU

[Bumper64]

So Bumper64,  Since I started this thread and you liked it, Do I get any brownie points that will maybe get me released from the tank?   

 

LOL! Thought maybe worth a try?   

 

To answer your question from earlier in this thread, yes I have released someone from the tank and as I expected he/she was put back into the tank within a week!!!  If you feel lonely i'm sure I will find some more lopsters to throw into the tank with you so you don't feel lonely!  I keep an eye on the post

[Markinsa]

To add to what Bumper said, if Lopsters get the bright idea of creating another account to get out of the tank, and we find out about it, both accounts get banned.

 

.

[Texstorm]

So Bumper64,  Since I started this thread and you liked it, Do I get any brownie points that will maybe get me released from the tank?   

 

LOL! Thought maybe worth a try?   

RV on my mind keep up the good work ! One can always hold out hope and I hope that this thing RV's first !

[umbertino]

To answer your question from earlier in this thread, yes I have released someone from the tank and as I expected he/she was put back into the tank within a week!!!  If you feel lonely i'm sure I will find some more lopsters to throw into the tank with you so you don't feel lonely!  I keep an eye on the post

Bumper ( said in a super-friendly tone... You know I think you're a good person and a great mod...)... Even  depts. of corrections every now and then release   a few inmates as a goodwill gesture.....I know ( I suppose) it's all in the Boss  hands.. But such an action would be fantastic....Just free them  all and give them all a chance....At least once....Pardon them all..... That'd be awesome....Grazie in advance

Edited March 19, 2015 by umbertino

[rockfl9]

Bumper ( said in a super-friendly tone... You know I think you're a good person and a great mod...)... Even  depts. of corrections every now and then release   a few inmates as a goodwill gesture.....I know ( I suppose) it's all in the Boss  hands.. But such an action would be fantastic....Just free them  all and give them all a chance....At least once....Pardon them all..... That'd be awesome....Grazie in advance

TKNX for the try UMB . But the Mods are not likely to admit error. I only needed to respond to obvious goorroo poo but lately others have taken care of thAT. SORRY no RV this year

[Texstorm]

Rv on my mind you are a fantastic person ! You are here just like the rest of us and I still think enough of you that you are on my short friendship list. I like your sense of humor, and you are just as important than I. It just so happens that at the time I agreed with the Mods and you temporarily lost yourself control, it happens. There it not one of us here that hasn't had a bad day and so you had yours. I am ready to get you back on board and I would take full responsibility of my membership Mods just to have him back topside.

[caz1104]

I'm all about 2nd chances & each individual & circumstance is different........................butttttttttt if we go by history as LOPsters preach.................it shows us that LOPsters will eventually revert back to who & what they are. JMO