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Rome the next ISIS target.


djgabrielie
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Mohamed was a murdering child raping pervert.HISTORICAL FACT.

So I ask where in the bible did God tell Christians to kill everyone who won't believe?

Sometimes I wonder why I even try ,but then I remember that Jesus Christ was

brutally murdered by those who refuse to believe so as to provide the ONLY way

a man could be redeemed.

Anyone who preaches another way is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So I ask you

If the truth is not in someone preaching another way what is?

For we fight not against flesh and blood, but against Powers and Principalty's

Therefore, I choose not to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight or any other time.

In layman's terms. Unless a Muslim is asking me how to get saved he has nothing

To say I want to hear. Now you say you're a Christian. And yet you will most likely say

I'm narrow minded.

Don't forget we won't reach perfection this side of heaven. Oh what the heck

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

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Perhaps it would be good if we could bring it down a notch.  I had no intent to stir the pot. 
 
My post was intended to have people think and research. 
 
Of the 1.6 billion followers of Islam there must be many good ones.  I am a believing Christian, so I do not take Islam at it's face value.....
 
just as they will not acknowledge my beliefs as being sound.

 

Current Day Christianity is peaceful.  There are aspects of current day Islam that seem to be very violent and disturbing, and this aspect of Islam needs to be removed from society.

I do understand the concept of "I do not know", however it might be a good idea to figure things out before it is to late.  

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Coors, I wasn't intending to be confrontational, quite the opposite. I only know about

dinar as much as Yota, Tbomb, Beautiful Dream, Adam, and others like you explain

it to me. However, I know full well what the Scriptures tell me and that by the Holy Spirit.

I'm no where near arrogant enough to tell scholars like Trinity or Nelg that they are wrong.

It's just that as a simple minded truck driver I know what I see.

For example, name me just one country where Islam is the main religion that they don't

create havoc. I don't know any. And my real concern is for my friends safety.

Islam will do here what they have done everywhere else.

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What did you expect the result of your post would do?? Your method does not promote dialogue, thought, and self research. It did exactly what you intended, for folks to get mad and walk away screaming kill them all. It stokes the flames of ignorance.

So now you're saying those who don't agree with you are ignorant?

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So now you're saying those who don't agree with you are ignorant?

no lgd, i am not saying those who disagree with me are ignorant.  that goes against everything i believe.  and if it was delivered that way, i sincerely apologize and ask your forgiveness my brother.  when i use the term ignorance it is not in a derogatory way.  it is in the true sense of the word and nothing more. 

 

the point of all this is the exact opposite.  i am saying that due to OUR ignorance of the context of the Quran, it is dangerous for us to surmise that the method in which it is presented is the Truth.   i am ignorant of the who what when where and why of the subject matter and i believe many in this community are as well.  we don't go to the mosque on a daily basis for Quran studies.  

 

what i don't like is when people prey on OUR ignorance.  it perpetuates the same narrative of Pay Day Loans, Sub Prime Lending, Slavery in America, 911 Tower 7, etc etc etc.  i don't like it when someone selects references from a manual specifically geared to promote an adverse reaction.  i don't like being manipulated.  i want Truth in the rawest form I can get it; not propaganda.  

 

so, brother, i am not trying to offend you.  and definitely i believe Jesus is the only way.  and i don't fear another's religion because if what i have is Truth, it will always rise above.  so i have no problem asking a muslim to explain a verse out of the Quran.  it helps me understand my neighbor and the world in which i live just a little bit better.  it is like Paul on Mars Hill referencing the statue with an inscription, "to the unknown God."  from the point of reference of the polytheistic religion of rome, Paul was able to share the gospel of Christ.....hoping to lead them out of their ignorance into truth.  

 

that is all i intended. 

If you look at what the Islamic "holy" book states......it is pretty clear what Islam thinks about all others,(us)..... and what their intent is !

coorslite21, yes it was very clear your intent.  you said that if i look at what you posted, it will become clear what islam thinks about ALL OTHERS, as well as being able to know the intent.  

 

How can I conclude this expressly from the verses you posted???  How?  your selections weren't even contiguous; a verse from here....a verse from there.....a verse from way over there..... all pulled together to clearly define what Islam thinks about ALL of us.  it would be better to post a contiguous section from the Quran and explain it to people: who, what, when, where, why.  that educates and destroys reaction through ignorance.

Edited by TrinityeXchange
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These are acts of terror by Muslim extremist. It ain't really ISIS or any organization I don't think.

 

Maybe it ain't right to blame muslims for the actions of a few, but there does seem to be a lot of these extremist groups running around doesn't there?

yes it does, but i wonder how peaceful the world really was up until recently.  it might be just me but i believe this stuff has been going on for a many hundreds of years but media, the internet and agendas have a way of making things pronounced.  for instance i was reading a book about iraq and could hardly get past the part concerning the Mongols.  the things they did to their enemies once they captured you was simply insane.  it appears that the world has always been full of violence.  it is just now we have mobile phone cameras in every part of the world to capture and post it for all to see.

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excerpt from the book for anyone interested:

 

Genghis Kahan - the mongol armies swept into western Asia, capturing and destroying the great city of Bukhara.  Next the Mongols took Samarqand, looted it, and enslaved what they regarded as the useful members of the population, its craftsmen.  The rest they massacred.  

 

The story is told that one woman sought to buy her life by giving her captors a large pearl.  They agreed and demanded the pearl.  she replied that for safekeeping she had swallowed it.  They immediately disemboweled her.  Finding several pearls in her stomach, they reported the incident to Genghis Khan.  He then ordered that all the bodies of the fallen be cut open and checked for hidden treasure.  

 

Everywhere they went, the Mongols cut down the people, burned or leveled the towns, and destroyed irrigation works so thoroughly that for hundreds of years the areas they swept across remained deserted,.  Some have never recovered.  

 

The horror of this invasion disheartened the people of Iraq:  what could they expect but death and destruction?  ... the Iraqis had a short reprieve. Genghis Khan died in 1227.  Then the invasions began afresh.  In 1251 Genghis Khan's grandson Mongke sent his brothers...westward into the Islamic countries... mounted archers turned on those troublesome peoples of the Iraqi-Persian mountains, the Kurds.  Not for the last time would invaders seek their total destruction.  Then he moved on toward Baghdad...in less than a week had breached its defenses...Mustasim walked out of the city to surrender.  He found no refuge.  He was forced to order the inhabitants to lay down their arms and follow him.  As they did so, the Mongols mercilessly cut them down.  

 

Taking the caliph back into the city, showing the contents of the treasury, Hulagu is said to have placed a tray heaped with gold before the terrified caliph and ordered him to eat.  When he replied that he could not eat gold, Hulagu taunted him for failing to use it to organize a better army.  Mustasim was allegedly rolled in a carpet and stamped to death.  What happened in Baghdad in the aftermath of Hulagu was comparabe to what happened in Hiroshima after the atomic blast.  

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My last words on this are simply if you believe that Islam wants to live in peace with the rest of the world then you may be naïve.

I suggest you watch the 5 minute video where the Islamic State forces butcher the 21 Egyptian Christians on the beach.

 

These men were in Libya because they were unable to find work in Egypt, …….(where the US supported the Arab Spring movement, which hasn’t worked out so well)…..almost 30% unemployment….

 

These Christian men were there so they could work to send money home to their wives and kids.

 

They were butchered because they were Christians. Our brothers in Christ, yours and mine!

 

They were butchered by a group claiming to be Islamists.

 

Perhaps they are not Islamist….perhaps they are Buddhists, Jews, or agnostics or KBG or CIA……but they claim to be Islamists and they come from the right part of the world to be Islamic faith followers.

 

The 5 minute video is titled:

 

a-video-message-from-the-islamic-state-a-message-signed-with-blood-to-the-nation-of-the-cross

 

Nation of the cross…..hmmmm……would that be the Christian nation??

The speaker looks directly into the camera and rants on about our Christianity.

 

He states that if we convert we will be accepted, if not, we will meet the same fate as these 21 men…….

 

It gets very graphic at that point and then the speaker states that they will take the war to Rome.

 

It seems to me that this group is at war with Christians and Jews, and  I fear it will only get worse.

 

JMO.....and again, these are my last thoughts on the subject.......

Edited by coorslite21
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i never said i believe islam wants to live in peace, my friend.  i don't know what the Quran teaches or if these yahoos are even following the proper context of it.  i simply do not know because i have not studied it for myself.  that is all i am saying and i hope you and i can remain friends through all of this misunderstanding.  

 

on another note my muslim friend offered a point of view concerning this incident that made me rethink some things.  he was explaining to me the division of eastern and western libya and how the military ruling eastern libya have financial ties with nations like france, jordan, egypt and one/two other nations.  isis is reportedly residing in western libya but never came under attack.  he has reason to believe that the egyptian air strike was not against an isis camp in western libya at all but alternative news is showing that it was really a strike against ghadaffi's remaining military regime.  the military does not have airstrike units because they were destroyed with the destruction of gadaffi and his regime.  so egypt carried out the strikes for them under the guise of attack the islamic state.  what is more is that he says reports are coming out that as the old military regime were attempting to escape libya into the mediterranean sea, they were gunned down by french airstrikes.  

 

i am not sure how true all of this is, but the world is a place full of many agendas and mainstream media does us no favor in reporting things the way they truly are.  

 

ps.  oh and i failed to mention that libya is somewhere ranked like 5-7th in oil among middle eastern nations.  please know the things we see taking place over there is more than meets the eye.  like everything else, it comes down to that sexy black gold!

 

read more

Edited by TrinityeXchange
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Washington lied and broke treaties with the native Americans so they could take our land. Many of us were Christians but that mattered not and were murdered! Governments are evil and power hungery and care little for the people the are swarn to serve. Be carefull as you look at this world as it is, realize God is in control, and evil will be delt with in time.

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"All Nazis were Germans".......Hitler was Austrian.   :huh: 

 

GO RV, and NO BV

Yep

I pray for your safety big U. Stay safe.

That's much appreciated my Friend. Grazie!

 

 Last news ( supposedly) is that Italy is asking the UN to be given  the power to coordinate ( along with other Countries)  an action in Libya....We'll see

Perhaps it would be good if we could bring it down a notch.  I had no intent to stir the pot. 

 

My post was intended to have people think and research. 

 

Of the 1.6 billion followers of Islam there must be many good ones.  I am a believing Christian, so I do not take Islam at it's face value.....

 

just as they will not acknowledge my beliefs as being sound.

 

Current Day Christianity is peaceful.  There are aspects of current day Islam that seem to be very violent and disturbing, and this aspect of Islam needs to be removed from society.

I do understand the concept of "I do not know", however it might be a good idea to figure things out before it is to late.  

Liked your  post. Deemed it well-balanced...Grazie

I wonder what our moron and chief would say about ISIS attacking Rome

Again I hope and feel pretty confident we won't  get to that point

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I would venture to say that most Islamic faithful are not even aware of most of these passages .

 

Unirod, how very wrong you are. Most Islamic faithful are taught from very early on in school the Quran. Their prophet told them to "recite" the quran. Any student who has gone to an Islamic Madrassa learns the Quran by heart. The Coptics in Egypt were subjected to this memorization of the Quran. The Coptics know more about the evil this religion perpetrates onto the Christians. Islam invaded Egypt and burnt the Alexandria library. 

 

the jury is still out as to whether or not Hitler was Jewish by DNA evidence

 

I just read some of Coors posting from the Quran and all I can hope is that people are not gullible enough to have someone piecemeal references from a document with comments from someone we do not know and conclude that all muslims are evil.  I really hope we are mature enough not to fall for that ball of wax trick.  Me being Christian know full well the distortion that follows when someone does the same thing with Bible references.  Which is why the Bible teaches to "rightly divide the Word of Truth."  Because a person can take ANY text and ****** pieces from it and build a following misleading them from its original intent.

 

The only way to fully grasp the message of the Quran is to study it for yourself.  There are no shortcuts.  Until then you are ignorant and any answer that you give concerning it should be "I do not know."  

 

I have studied the Quran and I have debated with Muslims. However you fall into their trap when you cry that the a verse here or there is taken out of context. Should you wish to know about a particular context that even a Muslim must follow you go those who have been given the authority to interpret the Quran. No one not even a Muslim can tell you what a quranic verse means without first looking at the interpretations of the Islamic Scholars - unless of course they are one. History of Islam as told by a muslim is very biased to paint Jews and Christians into a bad context. Their television shows consistently show Jews as the purveyors of drinking the blood of babies. The story your muslim friend spoke of is not quite true as their prophet was not confronted in Medina but in Mecca. He was thrown out of Mecca because he went against the merchants there. He came back to Mecca with an army of thieves and criminals and conquered Mecca. This pattern would then persist until Islam had conquered all of the Arabian penisula. Islam came by the sword. It did not come through peaceful means. The bible states that Satan spoke through an Angel of Light. In the cave, their prophet spoke to an Angel of Light. The Angel of Light, as was told, spoke for God. The God of the Jews and Christians states he will speak directly to those who will listen. No creature will speak for God but their prophet being a jealous and very angry person, said an Angel of Light spoke to him of what God said.  

interestingly enough i just had an indepth conversation with a muslim friend about the first scripture and man did he offer some insights (that were not offered by the commentator i might add).  i will try to reproduce the story as best i can.

 

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/197423-rome-the-next-isis-target/#ixzz3SDgqQwpZ

 

Context as explained to me:

Muhammad and his family/tribe lived in Mecca at the time and Muhammad's religious views was contradictory to the views of his family and neighboring tribesmen.  At this time polytheism was BIG BUSINESS and each tribe made and sold idols for the disparate tribes.  There was a huge market for it.  Muhammad's uncle did not convert to Muhammad's religion and he profited from the idol market but he loved his nephew and wanted to protect him.....there were a lot of people who did not appreciate Muhammad's religious views that was taking business away since it was based in monotheism.  

 

So 73 of Muhammad's family and he were helped off by his uncle to Medina.  There was a trade route from Medina to Damascus where Damascus was a central trade route at the time.  Well Muhammad met at Medina Jewish people who inhabited that area and these Jews were known for their ability to create strong weaponry.  Some of these Jews converted to Muhammad's religion.  Muhammad made a deal with the Jews that if they protect him and his family, he would share with them a portion of their productions and servants etc.  The terms were accepted.  The Jews would protect Muhammad and his family.

 

Eventually Muhammad's folk from Mecca come looking for him to put an end to the affects of his message.  They appear at Medina with an army against Muhammad.  The Jews had promised to protect Muhammad and at that time people's words meant everything.....nothing like today.  Well some Jews went back on their word while others remained indifferent not honoring their promise to protect Muhammad or fight against Muhammad.  Their stance was just to stay out of it.  Other Jews blocked the route to Damascus to prevent Muhammad and his people from fleeing northward when the attack took place.  

 

This treachery is what is known as Al-Fitnah.....the dividing of what was whole.  It spoke to the Jews who all agreed to protect Muhammad and his family now becoming divided where some turned against him and other became indifferent; Al-Fitnah.  Muhammad's stance was to destroy them where you see them because they went back on their word.

 

Isn't it amazing how one reference can be taught one way and have me in an uproar against all Muslims while another perspective of the same reference can have me see things entirely different?  And this is why I try not to sound an alarm through the bullhorn of ignorance.  It is best for me to simply say, "I do not know."  As the Holy Scripture teaches, "...and in all thy getting, get understanding."  Understanding keeps us from running around acting like monkeys while the powers that be string us along like puppets on a string.  

I have had many conversations with Muslims and apostates from Islam. Not one of them told this story like this. See my explanation above. The one thing I found out about Muslims is they like their god are the best of deceivers. They will speak calmly with you. The males will charm the females to get the females to fall for the males and eventually marry the males. However, when they are alone (or think they are alone) the filfth and vile that escapes fro their lips is indescribable. I have witnessed this very thing. I have gone into Muslim chat rooms where they thought all were in there were muslims. I have even passed myself off as Muslim and could do so with the breadth of knowledge I held. I am telling you a courteous muslim to your face is not the same amongst his own kind. 

 

Mohamed was a murdering child raping pervert.HISTORICAL FACT.

So I ask where in the bible did God tell Christians to kill everyone who won't believe?

Sometimes I wonder why I even try ,but then I remember that Jesus Christ was

brutally murdered by those who refuse to believe so as to provide the ONLY way

a man could be redeemed.

Anyone who preaches another way is a liar, and the truth is not in him. So I ask you

If the truth is not in someone preaching another way what is?

For we fight not against flesh and blood, but against Powers and Principalty's

Therefore, I choose not to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight or any other time.

In layman's terms. Unless a Muslim is asking me how to get saved he has nothing

To say I want to hear. Now you say you're a Christian. And yet you will most likely say

I'm narrow minded.

Don't forget we won't reach perfection this side of heaven. Oh what the heck

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Not defending Islam here, but take a look at the Old Testament when the Isrealites invade cities. Doesn't God of the Isrealites tell them to not leave one amongst them alive? This included women and children and elderly. I know this because that is a common talking point that Muslims bring up with this very argument. And it is true that god told the Isrealites this when invading cities. Another argument is they will claim that Psalms of the bible speaks their prophets name. However this has been shown to be false as well. 

 

Anoth bi-polar ponderous thread-jacking by the "clip loaded with scripture" guy. Can we stay on topic here? Unless ISIS is tempered, and the factions of secularism in Iraq work together, Abadi's reconstruction plans,though broad and functional, will be hard to carry out.

 

You really need to understand the ideology behind what this evil group is doing. You can listen to the lies and deceit of Muslim and non muslim alike claim that this is not an Islamic group or you can understand why they are lies and know that what ISIS is doing is actually Islamic by its very nature. The same thing was said about the Taliban in 2002. Remember the soccer field executions, the beheading of Daniel Pearl, the prohibition of women and girls from attending school, disallowed to vote. In Islam, women are tilth and property of men. Never forget that. Isis is only practicing their religion as it was meant to be practiced. 

i never said i believe islam wants to live in peace, my friend.  i don't know what the Quran teaches or if these yahoos are even following the proper context of it.  i simply do not know because i have not studied it for myself.  that is all i am saying and i hope you and i can remain friends through all of this misunderstanding.  

 

on another note my muslim friend offered a point of view concerning this incident that made me rethink some things.  he was explaining to me the division of eastern and western libya and how the military ruling eastern libya have financial ties with nations like france, jordan, egypt and one/two other nations.  isis is reportedly residing in western libya but never came under attack.  he has reason to believe that the egyptian air strike was not against an isis camp in western libya at all but alternative news is showing that it was really a strike against ghadaffi's remaining military regime.  the military does not have airstrike units because they were destroyed with the destruction of gadaffi and his regime.  so egypt carried out the strikes for them under the guise of attack the islamic state.  what is more is that he says reports are coming out that as the old military regime were attempting to escape libya into the mediterranean sea, they were gunned down by french airstrikes.  

 

i am not sure how true all of this is, but the world is a place full of many agendas and mainstream media does us no favor in reporting things the way they truly are.  

 

ps.  oh and i failed to mention that libya is somewhere ranked like 5-7th in oil among middle eastern nations.  please know the things we see taking place over there is more than meets the eye.  like everything else, it comes down to that sexy black gold!

 

read more

If you don't know what the Quran teaches, then don't ask a Muslim to explain a particular verse to you. Verses were abrogated as it is taught in the Quran. The author of the Quran clearly states that when a verse has been brought down and a better verse comes after the previous verse has been nullified (if you will). The common misconception that is brought up to Christians who begin to study the Quran or Islam is that there are peaceful verses. It is true the author of the Quran started off believeing Jews and Christians were friends and could be trusted. However as the quran develops these verses become extremely violent towards Christians and Jews. This is brought about because these peaceful verses became abrogated (nullified) when a newer verse came along that went against the older. 

 

Don't let anyone tell you different as Islam is in a constant state of war until one or two things happen, either they are all dead or those who do not believe in Islam are either converted or dead. There is no in between for Islam. Although one might argue by paying the Jiziyah ( blood protection money) that this is the in between. For how long? How long does a humilated non believer to Islam have to pay the Jiziyah to the Muslim. The Hadiths state until the lands of Islam hold no non believer, then all the lands are Dar al Harb - House of War. Make no bones about it, Islam sees all the lands of Earth as Islamic lands. No do you see why Islam wants to take over the world?

 

I don't bring these things up to stir the pot. I bring them up because people need to know. They need to understand what is Islam. There are no cliff notes on Islam and the books of the Hadiths are extremely long and contain many many volumes. There are different interpreters of the Quran and depending on which region of the Earth you live in, you will receive one of these versions. Fatwa's are religious edicts not always necessarily to put the mark of death on a person but also to suit a particular situation. There was a Fatwa in 1960's that declared all Shiites were indeed Islamic. This never took hold. Islam preys on the weak and in their numbers they become stronger. Its not the other way around. This is why you see ISIS talking about breeding their women. If you looked at the population growth numbers, most current first world countries cannot sustain an indigenous population because their current citizens are producing too few offspring. Islam is takiing advantage of this and breeding at a far faster rate to overcome the indigenous population of that particular country. There is so much to Islam than the Quran or the Hadiths that stand out and yet people don't want to look at it because they call it a religion. Ask any muslim and they will tell you its a way of life - it encompasses both political and religious. CAIR stated they were not in America to be any other religion. They were here to make the Quran the Constitution and Sharia its laws. That was back before their cofounders started getting locked up. 

 

People need to wake up as ISIS is just a building block to tear down the walls of Jericho. If you want to know more seek it out and do the research. Believe no one and verify all that you read yourself. Through the pains of research you too will come to believe all that has taken place and come to understand why Islam can never have a modifier. There is no such thing as Radical Islam. Islam has never been hijacked. Is not the getaway driver of a car just as responsible for the murder the robber commits when robbing a bank? When you can answer that truthfully you will then know why there are no moderates in Islam.

 

You all were born with a brain. Some just choose to use it differently than others. 

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I once was baptized and in that day my sins were washed clean, I know the way to heaven and I know the way to hell. I must admit these latter years have brought me to a place that I cannot tolerate all of the things that society says is OK. Everyone one of you either agrees or not and you know what I'm talking about ! You all can profess to be good Christians and keep quiet and tolerate what is going on or you can make your stand. Right or wrong God knows what's in your mind and hearts. There is no room for anything else unless you want to assimilate into today's way of thinking and be politically correct. That still doesn't make it right. One thing else, the day that Christian and Muslims can peaceably co-exist will never happen until the tribulation. If there are some of you or all of you that doesn't believe in Armageddon you might as well be politically correct and hope that you are right. For those of my brothers in Jesus do not bow to the way that they think, do not accept what they say is right. I am ready when God is ready and that's what they will never understand.

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