FOUR BLOOD MOONS: Something Is About To Change

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Lol!

 

I love Jesus. But religion does not belong in astrophysics.

Really, then you might wanna read Genesis chapter one and see what Jesus said

about the sun and moon.

[Markinsa]

Lol!

 

I love Jesus. But religion does not belong in astrophysics.

 

So you think God cannot create a Universe that works like a perfect time piece?  I mean really, what are are those planets and stars for if not to show His Glory?  I'm sorry, but you've really underestimated God's Power and Wisdom.

 

-

[Texstorm]

Lol!

 

I love Jesus. But religion does not belong in astrophysics.

What are you a NASA rocket scientist ? Everything belongs to GOD, even the air you breath and including the whole universe and if you believe in GOD you should know that. 

[Djorgie]

Lol!

 

I love Jesus. But religion does not belong in astrophysics.

Glad to hear that!

 

However, "religion" doesn't belong ANYWHERE! BUT, EVERYTHING belongs to YHWH/GOD...

 

Astrophysics is man-made science and has nothing to do with what YHWH/God has done. He created the sun, moon and stars not only for providing us with light and warmth but, he also created them for signs and appointed times (Holy Days) and for days and years.

 

He has on Many occasions given his children signs in the sun and moon and He does not lie. When he tells us there will be signs, then there WILL BE SIGNS!

[Fly]

 

I think you pretty much answered your own question here LOL... However, There are two reserections made clear in scripture. The first being the  dead in Christ and the second being the dead not in Christ, and they will experience judgement and then the sencond and final death. Those in Christ who are still alive at His return won't experience either of these deaths for obvious reasons. 

 

Some of your similar thoughts from other posts

Unfortunately for some (non believers), they will experience not only the first death but, the second as well... meaning that since they have died the first physical death as we know it, then they too must be resserected to face judgement and the final death which results in thier souls being completely destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

This is the understanding the Holy Spirit has given me and I have no doubt that it is the truth.

 

 

 

God warned Adam against disobedience, which would lead to death. God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Gen 2:16,17)

 

As you understand from study of scriptures death is the opposite of life a state of inactivity, Ec 9:10. It is the result of disobedience to God the creator, Through Adams choice to be disobedient, he passed that choice on through his ancestry, Ro 5:12― That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned, Ro 3:23―For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

The inspired bible shows a much more loving Father “whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (1Tim 2:4) Then the one describe in your comments, teaching God the Father will resurrect those who have previously succumb to Adamic death, only for the purpose of putting them right back into the death state, is this the act of a loving powerful just and wise God? Image family members and loved ones watching their as loved ones are resurrected up from death, how excited they must feel to be experiencing life with them once again in perfect conditions, only to bear sadness of seeing go to the grave once again!

 

Satan suggests at Gen 3:4 God is a lair, God can not lie and remain holy wouldn’t you agree. So my word that goes out of my mouth will be. It will not return to me without results, But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight, And it will have sure success in what I send it to do. ( Isaiah 55:11) Ro 6:7 says; “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

                                                                                                                                        

The Bible gives a picture of Judgment Day that is much different, the day is not one to be dreaded or feared, the bible gives some idea of how wonderful Judgment Day will be for humankind.

 

First though it should be made clear "Judgment day" it is not one and the same as Armageddon Gods day war.

 

The word “Armageddon” has its origin in the Hebrew expression “Har–Magedon,” or “Mountain of Megiddo.” It is found at Revelation 16:16, which states: “They gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.” Who are assembled to Armageddon, and why? Just two verses earlier, at Revelation 16:14, we read: “The kings of the entire inhabited earth” are gathered together “to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” Naturally, those statements raise additional intriguing questions. Where do these “kings” fight? Over what issue do they battle, and with whom? Will they, as many believe, use weapons of mass destruction? Will there be survivors of Armageddon? Let the Bible provide the answers.

 

Does the reference to the “Mountain of Megiddo” mean that Armageddon will be fought at a certain mountain in the Middle East? No. For one thing, no such mountain really exists—at the site of ancient Megiddo, there is only a mound rising about 70 feet above the adjacent valley plain. In addition, the area around Megiddo could not begin to hold all “the kings of the earth and their armies.” (Revelation 19:19) However, Megiddo was the site of some of the fiercest and most decisive battles in Middle Eastern history. Thus, the name Armageddon stands as a symbol of a decisive conflict, with only one clear victor.

 

Armageddon cannot be just a conflict among earthly nations, since Revelation 16:14 states that “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” form a united front at “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” In his inspired prophecy, Jeremiah stated that “those slain by Jehovah” will be scattered “from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.” (Jeremiah 25:33) Thus, Armageddon is not a human war confined to a particular location in the Middle East. It is Jehovah’s war, and it is global.

 

Note, however, that at Revelation 16:16, Armageddon is called a “place.” In the Bible, “place” may signify a condition or a situation—in this case, that the entire world will be united in its opposition to Jehovah. (Revelation 12:6, 14) At Armageddon all earthly nations ally themselves against “the armies that were in heaven” under the military command of the “King of kings and Lord of lords,” Jesus Christ.—Revelation 19:14, 16.

 

What about the claim that Armageddon will be a holocaust involving weapons of mass destruction or a collision with a celestial body? Would a loving God allow such a horrific end to humankind and their home, the earth? No. He expressly states that he did not create the earth “simply for nothing” but “formed it even to be inhabited.” (Isaiah 45:18; Psalm 96:10) At Armageddon, Jehvoah will not ruin our globe in a cataclysmic conflagration. Rather, he will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”—Revelation 11:18.

 

Judgment Day fallows after Armageddon and must be something quite different then what is commonly believed.

The Scriptures show that God has appointed Jesus Christ to be the Judge during Judgment Day. (Acts 17:31) And we can be confident that he will be fair and just in his judgment.—Isaiah 11:3-5.

 

Contrary to popular opinion, Christ will not judge those who are resurrected on the basis of their past sins, many of which may have been committed in ignorance. The Bible explains that at death a person is set free or released from any sins he committed. It says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Romans 6:7) This means that when a person is resurrected he will be judged according to what he does during Judgment Day, not on the basis of what he did before he was resurrected.

 

Judgment Day, therefore, is not a literal 24-hour day. It will be 1,000 years long. It is the same 1,000-year period during which Christ and his associate kings will rule over redeemed mankind. (Revelation 20:4, 6) During this time people will work together toward making the earth a paradise. In due time the dead will be welcomed back to life on earth.—Luke 23:43.

 

What happiness there will be when families long separated by death are joined together again! Yes, how pleasant to live in peace, to enjoy good health and to receive instruction regarding God’s purposes! During Judgment Day all who are alive on earth will be learning about Jehovah God and his ways. They will have opportunity to obey and serve him.

 

In describing what will take place on earth during the time of judgment, Revelation 20:12 says that the resurrected dead will then be “judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Those resurrected will not be judged on the basis of the works done in their former life, because the rule at Romans 6:7 says: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”

 

However, Jesus said that unwillingness to take note of his powerful works and repent or unresponsiveness to God’s message would make it hard for some to endure Judgment Day.—Mt 10:14, 15; 11:21-24.

 

Those who choose to serve Jehovah during Judgment Day will be in line to receive everlasting life. But, even under these best of circumstances, some will refuse to serve God and will turn to wickedness. As the scripture says: “Though the wicked one should be shown favor, he simply will not learn righteousness. In the land of straightforwardness he will act unjustly.” (Isaiah 26:10) So wicked persons who refuse to change their ways will be destroyed. Only the righteous will be permitted to enjoy the paradise earth.

 

The bible inspired by Holy Spirit provides us with this is description of our Heavenly Father, a God of Love.

[ronscarpa]

Thanks WHN, SG7 & Mark ... (+1 each)...Good stuff..!   

Thanks for everyone with great posts on page 2...! Sorry I missed you...R 

[SnowGlobe7]

Thanks Ron! Appreciate all you bring to us!

[Nelg]

Lol!

 

I love Jesus. But religion does not belong in astrophysics.

I think you might have that backward, but it really doesn't matter.

 

Jesus/Jehovah, created astrophysics, and all science.  What He did not do is reveal His will or prophetic teaching in a way that one would need to be an astrophysics to understand it.  

[AoK]

"Lol!

 

I love Jesus. But religion does not belong in astrophysics."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2015 by AoK

[Nelg]

All creation shows His glory, power, and majesty, but they do not reveal His will to humanity.  His will is known through His word given by the Spirit.  And we can understand the "mystery" of God's plan because it is revealed in Jesus Christ and give to the apostles and prophets by the Spirit.  We cannot understand His will for mankind through things that do not come from Scripture; our manipulative calculations, speculative thinking, and continuing contradictions.  By "contradictions" I mean when one speculator states that they "KNOW" it is truth because the Holy Spirit gave it to them, and another writer speculates something entirely contradictory to the first writer, but HE KNOWS it is true because the Spirit told him it was truth!  Now how confusing is that!!??  Especially when someone else comes along and teaches that all the others are false teachers and HE has been given the truth, of course HIS is from GOD!!!  

 

Everyone on this thread wants to know the truth from God.  We love God and what He has done for us through Jesus Christ, the Lord.  I am not questioning the sincerity and dedication of anyone writing.  But I do question the wild speculation and the discussions that produce quarrels (2Tim 2:23-26).  

 

I do not accept the interpretation of much of what has been written here.  That does not mean that I do not love and believe in God with all my heart, mind, and body.  However, when that which is being taught takes the mind away from the truths of salvation in Christ, the completed plan and redemption of mankind through what Jesus did at the cross and in His resurrection, and focuses our attention on speculation and guesswork, it is useless and wasted time.  

 

From what I have read in the rest of this thread, my opinion will not be well received.  I understand that.  But wouldn't it be wiser and more profitable to study Christ and build up one another?

[Neapolitan]

A CHARISMATIC NEW WORLD LEADER APPEARS FROM NOWHERE AND TAKES CONTROL OF GREECE  

Geri Ungurean | February 11, 2015 | 225 Comments

 

A MAN HAS COME ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCENE, AND MANY WHO KNOW THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOR, ARE TAKING A HARD LOOK AT HIM.  

“And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” Revelation 13:2 (KJV)

EDITOR’S NOTE:

 

We are looking for Jesus Christ, and not the Antichrist. But when we discovered this new “mystery man” who from nowhere has taken rock-star control of Greece, is backed by George Soros, has formed alliance with Russia and is talking with Pope Francis about a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians. We thought you just might want to know about it.

His name is Alexis Tsipras, and it seems that he meets much of the criteria of the prophesied Antichrist. He was just elected as the Prime Minister of Greece. He is an atheist and a far left winger. His party in Greece is called SYRIZA. He has appeared out of nowhere in the last couple of years, almost magically. He has landed himself in a most precarious situation. Greece is broken. Is he the one to fix it, and also the EU which is struggling and groping at almost anything to revive Europe? All eyes are on this man.

On Sept 17, 2014 Mr. Tsipras met with Pope Francis at the Vatican. He was the first leader of a left-wing party that met the head of the Roman-Catholic church–ever. This is not surprising with this Pope, because he is rabidly ecumenical, and very “Green”,  always talking about global warming and people harming the earth. It has been said that Tsipras and the Pope get along famously, and are in one accord. No problem that one claims to be the head of the “faithful” on this earth, and the other, a staunch atheist. Could it be that there are unseen circumstances, not being divulged to the public? I would say, assuredly so.

Alexis Tsipras has personally asked Pope Francis, in a meeting at the Vatican, to create a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians. Click image for quote from Tsipras official website.

Terry James of Rapture Ready wrote a piece on the possibility of this man being the Antichrist, but he made strong point at the beginning of the piece, telling Christians that we should be looking for the glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ to Rapture His church from this earth.

Here are two excerpts from Terry James article on “Nearing Midnight”

Antichrist Archetype Emerges

“…There has surfaced, in my view at least, an archetype of the leader to come who will be the first beast of Revelation 13.  This generation is not yet in the Tribulation, but is experiencing precursors to that last seven years that makes us know that a time of unprecedented troubles is just ahead. Likewise, a leader has arisen from the area of the reviving Roman Empire, one whose emergence makes the observant Bible prophecy student suspect ever more assuredly that Antichrist is waiting in the shadows of the immediate future.

Any such leader rising suddenly and dramatically out of the very nucleus of what was ancient Rome justifiably raises the eyebrows of Bible prophecy students.  The visible, physical reactions of those who have put him on his pedestal are quite interesting…glassy eyes filled with tears of joy, as they looked worshipfully at the man on whom they are hanging their hopes.  As a matter of fact, the slogan for his campaign was “Hope is coming!” — Terry James, RaptureReady.com

“I think we are looking at an archetype of the man whose name will add up to six hundred, three score and six.”—Terry” 

[1] – source

Here is part of a blogpost from christianpost.com:

“One interesting candidate that is clearly different from most of the others is Greek politician Alexis Tsipras He is the nominee for the Party of the European left; he also is the youngest of all the candidates at 39 years of age. He is a total atheist whose political roots are in socialism and communism. He remains un-married, but has cohabitated with his high school girlfriend for twenty years and they have one child.

Not only is he a wildly popular figure in Greece, but was elected unanimously to the SYRIZA a conglomerate of 13 far left radical groups. He has an Obama-like quality of being believed without a long established history of significant accomplishments or well accepted political plans or skills.” [2] – source

Alexis Tsipras sworn into office takes Civil Oath

“Alexis Tsipras, who was sworn in earlier this week as the new Prime Minister of Greece,has become his country’s first openly atheist leader. A survey noted that atheist leaders in Europe are becoming more prominent, with France and Croatia also being led by non-religious figures.

Tsipras was sworn in on Monday after his Syriza party won the elections in Greece, but he chose not to take a religious oath at the ceremony. Reuters noted that Tsipras, whose left-wing party has opposed austerity measures, broke from tradition when he decided to take a civil, rather than a biblical oath.” [3] – source

He is the first leader of Greece to refuse to take a religious oath on the Bible in the history of the country.

Tsipras has met with Pope Francis to discuss a peace treaty with Israel:

Tsipras said: “Even though we started from different points, ideological points, we believe we have common positions in the principles of solidarity, in the principles of justice, peace and cohesion.”

“We agreed on the need to continue the dialogue between the European left and the Christian church,” he said. “There is a need to create an ecumenical alliance against poverty, inequalities, against the logic that markets and profits are above people.”” 

- 

Alexis Tsipras in meeting with Pope Francis

The Pope and the new Greek leader also discussed climate change. Pope Francis is open to everyone, well almost everyone. He embraces the Atheist, the Wiccan, really any beliefs are fine with him, as long as social justice is addressed and a common hatred of Capitalism is quite important.

Think of how the bible describes the character and nature of the Antichrist, while you read the following quote from Alexis Tsipras official website:

“

We discussed the need for peace to return on earth, for the immediate cease of war interventions

…asked him to take an 

international initiative for the termination of conflicts in the Middle East

. Finally, we agreed that the dialogue between the Left and the Christian Church must go on. We may have different ideological starting points; however, 

we converge on common values

, like solidarity, love for the fellow Human being, social justice, and our concern regarding world peace.”

Alexis Tsipras in his meeting with Pope Francis

Alexis Tsipras as the Antichrist? Pope Francis as the False Prophet? It certainly is pretty interesting, wouldn’t you say?

George Soros backs Tsipras

“The Guardian featured an article today about George Soros and the opening of his “Solidarity Center” in Thessaloniki, Greece, the first of many he plans to open in order to help Greeks who were hit the worst by the economic crisis.”

You see, it is a hobby of Mr. Soros to take his billions of dollars and play politics. He groomed Barack Obama for his entrance onto the world stage. He is part of the New World Order (Illuminati). He is probably one of the most evil people who ever walked the earth. Strong statement – I know. But how about Hitler? Of course, Hitler was incredibly evil. But did you know what George Soros did in Germany during the Holocaust? He was a teen and from a billionaire father. He was a Jew, but to save his own life, he turned in his fellow Jews to be loaded on the trains, heading for their deaths. He is unrepentant of these deeds – he says there is nothing to be sorry about.

Isn’t it interesting that the pre-elections took place in Thessaloniki (Thessalonica from the Bible) and now Mr. Soros has established his Solidarity Center in that same city? One thing I find fascinating is that in the Bible, the Antichrist was spoken of in much detail by the Apostle Paul in the book of 2 Thessalonians 2:

“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”

There are no coincidences with our God.

“According to the article Aliki Mouriki, a sociologist of the Greek National Center for Social Research said: “Greece, to a great degree, has become a failed state. It is unable to provide basic facilities for its citizens because of budget cuts. In the absence of public welfare, and with around one and a half million officially unemployed, growing numbers are looking for substitutes elsewhere.”

Last year, George Soros had offered Greek institutions 1 million dollars to buy heating oil, after mayors in different Greek municipalities requested help. “It had got to the point where some of the schools had not a drop of oil left. This month we got 20,000 tons from Soros and it has really helped. The government has now promised an extra four million euros but we have yet to see it,” said the mayor of Naoussa in Northern Greece.

George Soros has donated money for heating oil to approximately 190 Greek institutions such as orphanages, schools, nurseries and homes of the elderly and is planning to open “Solidarity Centers” around Greece. The first one opened in Thessaloniki just a few days ago and is already filled with applications.

George Soros’ philanthropy has been the subject of a great controversy. Parents’ associations all over Greece are refusing donations because they are suspicious of his motives. Yiannis Boutaris, mayor of Thessaloniki responded saying “Why Soros gives money to Thessaloniki or other Greek regions, or even to NGOs to help vulnerable groups, should not be the centre of attention. It is the fact that Greek tycoons, shipowners and those from the diaspora don’t follow his example.”[4]

Russia is looking to make an ally within its biggest enemy – Greece

The plot is beginning to thicken.

Greece’s defense minister was invited to Moscow to meet Sergei Shoygu, his Russian counterpart, in the near future. Greece is part of the 28 members of NATO. Russia has always regarded NATO is its biggest threat. Now, Russia appears to have a newfound interest in establishing a relationship with Greece’s defense minister. On Tuesday Kammenos met with both the US and Russian ambassadors to Greece.

The solidarity shown to #Greece by the peoples of Europe is the European “dream” in practice. It is the future of #Europe

— Alexis Tsipras (@tsipras_eu) February 10, 2015

“The discussion with the ambassador of Russia, Mr. Maslov, was also about the pending agreements between the Ministries of National Defence of Greece and Russia, the capabilities of a strategic cooperation, the organisation of the year of Greek-Russian friendship in 2016 which will take place in Greece and in Russia. I received an invitation by Russia’s Minister of Defence to visit Moscow within the next period of time,” Kammenos wrote on Greece’s Ministry of National Defense website.” [5] – source

The new Greek government at times has been critical of both the EU and NATO. Tsipras has spoken of withdrawing from NATO.

“On Nato, Syriza describes its approach as a ‘multi-dimensional, pro-peace foreign policy for Greece, with no involvement in wars or military plans.’ It seeks ‘the re-foundation of Europe away from artificial divisions and Cold War alliances such as Nato.’ … Last year on Syriza MP called for Greece to leave Nato altogether, though the comments were rapidly played down by senior officials,” writes BBC.

“The new Greek government is cause for concern, especially because Tsipras has voiced his opposition to NATO membership in the past,” Ian Bremmer told Business Insider last week. “And his early actions — these comments regarding sanctions, as well as his meeting with the Russian ambassador to Greece without hours of taking office — demonstrates that he is willing to engage differently with Moscow.”

It Was Just Like Obama’s First Election Night!”

Already there are comparisons between Tsipras and Obama. The adoring crowds. The rock star status. The people really don’t know much about their new PM. Sound familiar?

They know that Tsipras met his partner, and mother of his kids, in high school, when they both joined Student’s for Communism.

I have been digging into the Internet, attempting to find everything I can about Alexis Tsipras. What I am about to tell you will probably shock you as it did me. I want to stress that I have found this information on different Greek sites (translated of course) and it by no means proves that this is true. But if it is, then I do think that we “may” be looking at the Wicked (as the Bible calls him).

Here is what I have been reading:

“The father of Alexis Cipra, Pavlos Cipra, died in 2012. He was a billionaire with a direct link with the Mossad, he was the father of a slave BHL entrepreneur in Africa where he was trafficking in Africans. He sent dozens of Africans in Greece in order to exploit them, giving them just enough to survive in its construction companies and public travux.

The family business “SKAPANEA” was responsible for all major public works in Greece since the junta until today, construction / restoration of Orthodox churches through broadcasting. Like the Italian Mafia, the other companies have to pay a percentage to the “family” if they want to survive. “ [6] – source

Yes, you read that correctly. I have been finding people in Greece saying that Tsipras is actually “Cipra” and is of Jewish blood.

“Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.” Many End Times scholars have concluded that this passage of Scripture from Daniel 11:37 shows the Antichrist to be atheist, since he no longer regards the God of his fathers.

We as children of God, should be looking for the Blessed Hope of His appearing to catch us away from this wicked planet. But we should also be watchmen on the wall, discerning the times and events. In this way, we will be more informed to share our thoughts and Scripture with others.

 And when I look at Tsipras/Cipra – I see someone who may just be the man of sin of which the Bible speaks.

We won’t be here, but this should give us pause, and make us realize that we need to share the Gospel with everyone we know!!

MARANATHA!!!!!

Blessings in Yeshua

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=30736

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Wow, I'm gonna have to come back to this when I've more time.

THANKS

[Whatshername]

Wow, I'm gonna have to come back to this when I've more time.

THANKS

 

Please do LGD... I'm enjoying this thread very much.  Thanks to ALL who have contributed. 

[Fly]

I think you might have that backward, but it really doesn't matter.

 

Jesus/Jehovah, created astrophysics, and all science.  What He did not do is reveal His will or prophetic teaching in a way that one would need to be an astrophysics to understand it.  

 

Jesus/Jehovah, created astrophysics, Jesus, being the one Jehovah (Jesus’ Father) was especially fond of, working alongside his father as a master worker, as Jehovah, was using his power (Holy Spirit) to create all other things through him (Jesus) and for him (Jesus). The power and source of all creation comes from Jehovah, so Jehovah working with Jesus alongside created the physical universe.

 

When he prepared the heavens, I was there; when he established the foundations of the earth, Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; (Pro 8: 27, 29b, 30)

 

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. (Col 1:15,16)

 

Making the statement Jehovah created astrophysics is embellishing on the meaning of what the term astrophysics actually is; astrophysics: The branch of astronomy that deals with the physical properties of celestial bodies and with the interaction between matter and radiation in the interior of celestial bodies and in interstellar space. Clearly this science is man created for research and study to learn about the universe, something that the Creator already knows everything there is to know about it.

http://www.space.com/26218-astrophysics.html     

 

and all science. New chemicals have revolutionized many industries but they also pollute the water we drink and the air we breathe. Insecticides have greatly increased the crop yield of our farms. They have also killed wildlife and endangered human health.

Science and warfare, more than half the world’s best scientists and engineers employed in the arms race, who is to blame? Certainly, those scientists must at least share the blame who spend their time developing more destructive nuclear bombs or better delivery systems for these weapons, or who use their intelligence and training to develop poison gases or materials for germ warfare.

Honest scientists understand that while science has produced things improving life, it has also done the opposite. It has been responsible for producing things that have made life miserable for millions of people.

The bloodshed and destruction of this century’s world wars are an example. World War II alone is reported to have taken over 50 million lives. Many of these victims died in horrible ways due to the inventions of science and technology: explosives dropped on many peace-loving civilians by speeding aircraft, rockets, tanks, flamethrowers, automatic weapons, torpedoes, atomic bombs and other engines of death. These, too, were the products of scientific and industrial advancement.

 

Some science has been a benefit, though much has lead to false hopes and deterioration of life, good or bad, all science is the product of man. I well know, O Jehovah, that man’s way does not belong to him. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step. (Jer 10:23)

 

All of this I have seen, and I applied my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his harm. (Ec 8:9)

 

The bible warns us, so should we remain unwise to the designer of this system― 2Cor 4:4“among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” Compare― Ep 2:2 “in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.”

 

What He did not do is reveal His will or prophetic teaching in a way that one would need to be an astrophysics to understand it.  

 

Perhaps then what is needed is more effort put into acquiring of bible understanding, taking in knowledge gaining a personal relationship with our creator thus having learned and own the bibles message not only for oneself, but for God. “Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me.” (Pro 27:11)

 

I find it interesting referring to teaching in a way that one would need to be an astrophysics to understand it.

Dose a definition really make any difference when the teaching has been adopted from another source?

 

We may have a different definition.  I prefer not to use the term since it is not a biblical word, I wonder why it is not a biblical term and as such is subject to several human definitions.  Oh… ok then… wait for it… I prefer to say the Father is God, Jesus is God, Holy Spirit is God. But Father is not Jesus, Jesus is not the Spirit, and Spirit is not the Father.  All are God. Oh… now that really simplifies it…but wait there’s more… Yet Jesus says that He is sending the Spirit to the disciples, and then says that He is coming to them.  He also said that He and the Father are One. The Spirit is called the Lord, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, and all are God. so since this now has been made perfectly clear as the bibles teaching

  

We are limited in our understand of God. but not this limited! none of this can be proven biblically as it is only backed by mans belief system We talk of each and think of each as separate beings with separate personalities and thoughts. This is appositely true of Jesus and his Father Jehovah God, not though of the Holy Spirit, as this is not a person, being or individual, this is Jehovah God’s active force or “power” It is human thinking and limited. You believe this as you are the one saying it It is hard for us to envision how God can be One and yet separate to function as three persons, yet God did just that.  The entire Godhead was in the beginning creating, planning, and functioning as One with the same mind and same judgment and the same One God. The separation was necessary in order to redeem humanity. Not one bit of this teaching can be found anywhere in the scriptures That is the wonder of Philippians 2:5-11. “Wonder” must be another prefer word, were as the teachers of the hand me down adopted teaching uses the prefer word “mystery.”      

http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/194071-the-allah-of-the-quran-and-the-god-of-the-bible-are-not-the-same/#entry1477906

 

How Is the Trinity Explained?

The Roman Catholic Church states: “The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion . . . Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: ‘the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.’ In this Trinity . . . the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.”—The Catholic Encyclopedia.

 

Nearly all other churches in Christendom agree. For example, the Greek Orthodox Church also calls the Trinity “the fundamental doctrine of Christianity,” even saying: “Christians are those who accept Christ as God.” In the book Our Orthodox Christian Faith, the same church declares: “God is triune. . . . The Father is totally God. The Son is totally God. The Holy Spirit is totally God.”

 

“Beyond the Grasp of Human Reason”

 

This confusion is widespread. The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”

 

Many who accept the Trinity view it that same way. Monsignor Eugene Clark says: “God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.” Cardinal John O’Connor states: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” And Pope John Paul II speaks of “the inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity.”

 

Thus, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge says: “Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves.”

 

We can understand, then, why the New Catholic Encyclopedia observes: “There are few teachers of Trinitarian theology in Roman Catholic seminaries who have not been badgered at one time or another by the question, ‘But how does one preach the Trinity?’ And if the question is symptomatic of confusion on the part of the students, perhaps it is no less symptomatic of similar confusion on the part of their professors.”

 

The truth of that observation can be verified by going to a library and examining books that support the Trinity. Countless pages have been written attempting to explain it. Yet, after struggling through the labyrinth of confusing theological terms and explanations, investigators still come away unsatisfied.

 

In this regard, Jesuit Joseph Bracken observes in his book What Are They Saying About the Trinity?: “Priests who with considerable effort learned . . . the Trinity during their seminary years naturally hesitated to present it to their people from the pulpit, even on Trinity Sunday. . . . Why should one bore people with something that in the end they wouldn’t properly understand anyway?” He also says: “The Trinity is a matter of formal belief, but it has little or no [effect] in day-to-day Christian life and worship.” Yet, it is “the central doctrine” of the churches!

 

“Not a God of Confusion”

How could such a confusing doctrine originate? The Catholic Encyclopedia claims: “A dogma so mysterious presupposes a Divine revelation.” Catholic scholars Karl Rahner and Herbert Vorgrimler state in their Theological Dictionary: “The Trinity is a mystery . . . in the strict sense . . . , which could not be known without revelation, and even after revelation cannot become wholly intelligible.”

 

However, contending that since the Trinity is such a confusing mystery, it must have come from divine revelation creates another major problem. Why? Because divine revelation itself does not allow for such a view of God: “God is not a God of confusion.”—1 Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS).

 

In view of that statement, would God be responsible for a doctrine about himself that is so confusing that even Hebrew, Greek, and Latin scholars cannot really explain it?

 

Furthermore, do people have to be theologians ‘to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent’? (John 17:3, JB) If that were the case, why did so few of the educated Jewish religious leaders recognize Jesus as the Messiah? His faithful disciples were, instead, humble farmers, fishermen, tax collectors, housewives. Those common people were so certain of what Jesus taught about God that they could teach it to others and were even willing to die for their belief.—Matthew 15:1-9; 21:23-32, 43; 23:13-36; John 7:45-49; Acts 4:13.

 

One that accepts and embraces the teaching of Christendom the most reprehensible part of the world empire of false religion. One may want to consider deeply before passing judgment, presupposing the nature of subconscious that assumes one is indifferent.

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. (Re 18:4,5)

 

This is not for to disparage anyone! and it is not for those that think they know better and it is not for those that think they are not affected because of never making a choice; your choice has been made for you. It is for those who wish to have their heart and mind filled with the knowledge and understanding provided by our heavenly Farther teaching found exclusively in his word. 

 

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. (John 17:3)

 

Respectfully

 

Vernon  

[MyLadiesDaddy]

WOW, This thread has become quite fascinating.  Neapolitan I am fascinated by your

 

post and wish to thank you so much for bringing it over. I would like to add something

 

that I believe the Holy Spirit showed me concerning the Antichrist, but first I'd like to 

 

respond to something fly said.

 

HOW IS THE TRINITY EXPLAINED

 

I once heard it like this and that with the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

 

We are created in the image of God, but WE are created male and female. Something 

 

does not compute. 

 

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:27

 

And yet we know also from scripture that in heaven there is no gender.

 

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Matthew 22:30

 

Thus indicating that in heaven there is no sex. 

 

This is why Jesus is called the Bridegroom, the Church is called His Bride, and our celebration in heaven is called the Wedding (John 3:29;Matthew 22:1-14;Revelation 19:7-9)

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-heaven.html#ixzz3RkxNP2EQ

 

All scripture I quote is from this link, http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/22.htm

 

So how can both male and female be created in the image of God? The answer is much simpler than you think.

 

We know of the trinity

 

God the Father 

 

God the Son

 

God the Holy Spirit

 

There are only three things in a man and a woman that can possibly fit that a fore mentioned conditions of the trinity.

 

God the Father equals the mind

 

God the Son equals the body 

 

God the Holy Spirit equals the soul

 

And how is it exactly that man and woman are created? BODY, MIND, AND SOUL.

 

Thus after the IMAGE OF GOD.

 

 

Now I'd love to show everyone something that I received from the Holy Spirit after fasting 

 

and prayer about the Antichrist. I believe that the scriptures not only tell us, WHO he is, but also  

 

that they give us the name that he once went by.  Take a walk with me through the New Testament, if you will.

 

  12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. John17:12

 

The term,"son of perdition" is only used twice in the entire bible and I find it of some importance that our Lord uses it here to 

 

actually describe a single man. 

 

The title “son of perdition” is used twice in the New Testament, first inJohn 17:12and again in2 Thessalonians 2:3. The phrase simply means “man doomed to destruction” and is not reserved for any one individual. In fact, there are two people to which the title “son of perdition” is applied. In context,John 17:12is referring to Judas Iscariot, while2 Thessalonians 2:3is referring to the “man of lawlessness”—the Antichrist—who will appear in the end times before Christ’s return.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/son-of-perdition.html#ixzz3RlFMyAnW

 

And this is not the last time we hear of Judas Iscariot either, consider where he went to AFTER he dies.

 

25That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. Acts 1:25

 

Then as we progress we see that even the Apostle Paul refers to Judas by another name,

 

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. 2Thessalonians 2:3

 

We find also that Judas has another very interesting quality that as far as anyone knows has never happened to 

 

another person. But we know that it will also happen to the Antichrist.

 

 And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot,the son of Simon. 27And after the sop Satan entered into him. John 13:25

 

Satin entered into him. Never before has it been said of anyone that Satin himself entered into a person. 

 

Yet we know that the Antichrist is a man possessed by Satin himself. 

 

 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,2Thessalonians2:9

 

So what have we learned? 

 

Judas Iscariot was possessed by Satin himself.

 

Judas Iscariot died and went to his own place.

 

Judas Iscariot is the only man referred to as The Son Of Perdition. And that by Jesus Christ himself.

 

What do we know about the Antichrist?

 

Paul refers to him as That man of sin, the SON OF PERDITION.

 

He is a man possessed by Satan himself. And he wont be revealed until he sits in the temple of God.

 

That is in the Holy of Hollies, and claims to himself to be God. Thus causing the Abomination of Desalination. 

 

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Matthew 24:15

 

 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:27

 

Likewise we know that he will make peace with Israel. So ask yourself how on earth is he gonna do that.

 

By being a Jew. And as Neapolitan has pointed out he will forsake the God of his fathers. Just like Judas Iscariot.

 

So I submit to everyone here that as we have learned that Judas Iscariot, went to his own place, it seems

 

reasonable that the Antichrist would be Judas Iscariot reincarnated. And before you say that is impossible

 

because scriptures teach us there is no such thing, consider this,

 

   10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. Matthew17:10-13

 

It is clear that when God wants to do something he can do whatever he likes.

 

​In conclusion, is it possible that  Alexis Tsipras aka Alexis Crpia is the Antichrist? 

 

VERY MUCH SO.

 

And though Paul said that he shall not be revealed until he commits the Abomination of Desolation, he did

 

not say that we wouldn't be able to recognize him as Holy Spirit filled Christians. Only that the world will not

 

see him for who he is until its too late.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Also, Neapolitan, I am bringing this over as I believe everyone should read his 

 

entire speech. It's truly amazing.

 

Ps sorry about the miss spelling of the word Satan. 

 

STATEMENT BY TSIPRAS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THEIR MEETING

In our meeting with Pope Francis today -who is often referred to as “The Pope of the Poor”- we had the opportunity to discuss the economic crisis, as well as the crisis in human values. To discuss the need for politics to re-inspire people in values which are collective, universal and substantive instead of the currently pre-dominant values of profit and material consumption.

We discussed the need for peace to return on earth, for the immediate cease of war interventions, the need for solidarity’s rehabilitation as a value, and the need to speak about the significance of making sure that people always count more than profits.

We pleaded with him to continue struggling against poverty and to speak in behalf of the dignity of humans as well as the structural causes behind poverty which are the inequality in the distribution of wealth and the rampant behavior of the financial markets.

We asked him to take an international initiative for the termination of conflicts in the Middle East and the Ukraine; we discussed the issue of migration that enormous plague of our times and the need for a revision of the European migration policy which generates humanitarian crises in the Mediterranean.

I brought to him the true picture of Greece, a country that after four years of an unjust policy of austerity continues to sink inside the crisis a crisis assuming the proportions of a humanitarian disaster. And I explained to him that what happened was implemented in order to save banks not humans. In addition, I told him that the majority of the Greek people, and I personally, are determined to put an end to this policy, something which necessitates the support of broader forces across Europe.

Finally, we agreed that the dialogue between the Left and the Christian Church must go on. We may have different ideological starting points; however, we converge on common values, like solidarity, love for the fellow Human being, social justice, and our concern regarding world peace.

 

Unbelievable, use politics as a means of giving people values,

Bring peace to the earth.

If this doesn't sound like the Antichrist I'll be a monkeys uncle. 

[Neapolitan]

Social Justice - Where have we heard that before?  

[Nelg]

PART ONE:  An answer to "Fly."

 

 

 

First, Jehovah and Jesus are the same.  Jesus is a manifestation of God to the humanity.  His becoming “flesh” was needful as the completion of the plan to redeem humanity from themselves and sin. That plan to redeem us was established “before the foundation of the world” by the entire Godhead.  It will be completed with the eventual return of Jesus with the saint to receive their immortal bodies and final reward for the life after physical death.

 

 

The scarlet cord through the Bible

We should understand that the death of Christ is of supreme importance throughout the Scripture.  It is the subject of many types and prophecies in the Old Testament, beginning with the one we have just considered, Genesis 3:15.  Because the texts are so numerous we shall only consider a few.  

 

There is a wonderful and oft quoted passage in Isaiah which specifically depicts the suffering and death of the Messiah (Read Isaiah 53:1-12).  Note the relationship between verses 4-6 and that of Genesis 3:15.  He was “crushed” or “bruised” because of our iniquities.

 

Daniel puts a time frame of sixty-nine weeks from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah is “cut off,” or crucified (Dn 9:24-27). 

 

Zechariah prophecies of the killing of the Shepherd (13:7) and at the same time the opening of a fountain for sin and uncleanness (13:1).

 

The words of Jesus to the disciples after His death and resurrection proclaim that the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms foretold His suffering and death (Lk 24:44-47).

 

The death of the Messiah has a prominent place in the New Testament. 

The last few days of Jesus’ ministry on earth compose about one-fifth of the narratives in the four gospels. 

The rest of the New Testament contains 175 direct references to Christ’s death.  Since there are some 7,959 verses in the New Testament, that would mean that one out of every fifty-three verses refer to the death of Jesus.

 

Christ did not come primarily to set us an example, or to teach us how to live, but to die for us.  The death of Jesus on the cross was not an accident, not an afterthought, not a second plan if the first one didn’t work (His becoming King on the earth), but the accomplishment of a definite plan and purpose, the removal of death and punishment from mankind, and the establishment of means for mankind’s salvation.

 

The death of Christ is the fundamental meaning of the gospel.  By “gospel” we do not mean just the life of Jesus as given in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  Certainly this is “good news.”  However, more correctly it is used to mean the “good news” about salvation from sin.  Paul uses it this way (1Co 15:1-4). 

 

It is good news because it implies that we do not need to die for our own sins.  Christ did that.  He purposely came in to this earth in the form of a man and purposely died and suffered the wrath of God against sin.  He did what we cannot and could not do. 

 

If we consider the teachings of Jesus, the Law of Moses, the Sermon on the Mount, the example He lived, we come to the conclusion that all of these reveal our inability to live up to what is demanded of us.  They also reveal our sinfulness and need for a savior.  However, none of these point out the remedy for sin.  The keeping of the law, the living of a good life, or the sacrificing of a thousand lambs could not remove sin.  That remedy is found only in the death of Jesus.  This is the whole point of Roman 7.  After examining his own life Paul is left crying for deliverance.

 

The death of Jesus is the distinguishing element in Christianity.  Remove it and Christianity is reduced to the level of a great ethical religion on the par with other religions of the world. 

 

It is saddening to say, but there are “Christian” groups who no longer proclaim Christ crucified.  They will tell you that what they proclaim from the pulpit is great advice, the Sermon on the Mount, and the wonderful teachings of Jesus, but not the cross and the blood.  These groups will tell you that “to preach the cross is a bloody story which no one wants to hear.”

 

If we remove the cross and the death of Jesus for sin from our teaching and preaching then we have nothing to offer mankind! 

 

The Christ must be lifted up on the cross if man is to be saved from sin and death (Jn 3:14-18).  This passage is not talking about His life and teaching, but His death as a sacrifice for sin. 

 

God cannot redeem mankind, cannot pardon sin, and cannot remove the penalty of death merely on the act of our repentance.  God can pardon and remove death only when the penalty for sin has been first fully paid. 

Christ had to die!  He had to die if God was both to justify the ungodly and remain just Himself (Rm 3:25-26).  The death of Christ is an absolute necessity if man is to be saved.  With out the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 

 

The “crushing” of Christ at the cross is the extreme interest of those in Heaven.  Those who are now in “Abraham’s bosom” seem to understand the purpose of Christ coming to earth.  Though they did not understand what they were saying when they preached and taught it while on earth, they know it now (1Pt 1:10-12).

When Jesus was transfigured, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus and spoke to Him about His death (Lk 9:30-31). I wish we were privy to the entire conversation.  It would be interesting to hear what these two might have said to the Lord. We do know that they knew of whom they were speaking. Jesus was the one they had speaking about in the Law and in the prophets.  How excited they must have been!  Now they were seeing the completion of all they had predicted. Here was the “Christ” coming to die upon the cross; the fulfillment of the eternal plan.

John, the apostle, sees a vision of those around the throne, redeemed from the earth; sing a song about the death of Jesus and the victory He accomplished through His shed blood (Rev 5:8-10).  Above everything else, the plan of God to redeem mankind from sin is glorified in the words of this song.

 

The plan of God to redeem mankind is the primary purpose of Scripture.  Any other purpose must be subservient to this one. 

 

The statement by Peter in Acts 2:22-24 declares that the death of Jesus on the cross was not an after-thought of God but part of the divine plan. 

Peter declares that Jesus was “delivered up” to death by the “predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God”  (2:23).

 

Therefore, God planned the agony of death at the cross.  It was necessary for Him to die.  This was not a fiat of history, but the meaning of all history! 

The entire procedure of Jesus’ persecution, rejection, and crucifixion was planned before sin and rebellion was ever conceived in the heart of man; or before the penalty executed on mankind.

The purpose is stated clearly in the remaining part of the sermon:

The resurrection of Jesus “put an end to the agony of death.” (2:24)

The exalting of Jesus to reign as king from His heavenly throne (2:30). 

The rendering of salvation for all those who believe, repent, and are baptized (2:38-40).

 

This predetermined plan, the mystery and wisdom of God was the death and resurrection of Christ (1Co 1:18-25, 30).

The plan of God to remove sin and death by death was and is perceived by the unbeliever as “moronic,” “foolishness.” (1:18)

If we think like the world and use the wisdom of man, then the message of Christ crucified will still seem like a foolish plan. (1:20-21).

To reason in such a fashion will only produce unbelief and the cross will be a stumbling block (1:21, 23).

Yet this was the method chosen by God to redeem mankind.  It is the power and wisdom of God (1:24).

Christ crucified has become to the believer “the wisdom of God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption” (1:30).

It was this message, Christ crucified, which was the primary message of Paul (1Co 2:1-5).

This predetermined plan to redeem mankind was given before the beginning of time; that is, it was conceived by the divine mind (God) in eternity (1Co 2:6-10).

After Paul says that the wisdom of God, the mystery of God, is the preaching of Christ crucified; he then states the origin of this plan.  It was predestined before the ages; in eternity (1Co 2:7).

It is the plan of “all that God has prepared for those who love Him” (1Co 2:9).

 

This mystery, the predetermined plan, is God’s will for mankind (Ep 1:3-14).

All spiritual blessings are to be “in Christ” (1:3). 

The choosing of us was “before the foundation of the world” (1:4).  This period was before anything was created, even man.  The point being made is that God has not chosen us individually and forced us to become saved, but that those who believe would be saved “in Christ.”

 

To the Thessalonians Paul writes that salvation is for those who are called through the gospel (1Th 2:13-14).  The “calling” of God is not by means other than what He has ordained.  Certainly those during the OT and NT periods were “called” directly by God, through angelic messengers, heavenly visions,” or by circumstances and events.  But the ordained “call” for saints today is the calling of the gospel of Christ. 

The “calling” is by or through the gospel, which is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1Co 15:1-4).  This is the message of grace.

 

Paul, in telling Agrippa about his own calling, says that he was not “disobedient to the heavenly vision” (Acts 26:19), which was the grace proclaimed (Gal 1:15). 

Our “predestination” as adopted sons is through Jesus Christ (1:5).  God has predetermined that anyone coming to belief or faith in Christ would become a son of His.  The calling or plan of God is not for selected individuals while isolating others to an eternal separation.  It is for all those who have and obedient faith in Christ.  And, that person “in Christ” would and does receive all the blessings of God: salvation, remission of sin, the Holy Spirit, etc..(1:7, 11, 13-14). 

This “mystery” has been revealed “in the fullness of time” (1:9-10).  This mystery is not something that is still a mystery and only those with a direct connection with God can discover.  It is today the mystery revealed.

The fullness of time was revealed as the time when Christ died for us.  (cf. Rm 5:6-10)

Paul states, “But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.” (Gal 4:4-5)

 

To Timothy he writes concerning the power of God (Christ), “who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”  (2Tm 1:9-10)

This mystery we can understand by revelation (Ep 3:1-11), and it is this mystery that the church must proclaim to the world.  We cannot hold it back and conceal it from men.  It must be proclaimed for mankind to be saved.  It is God’s purpose that we preach and teach this message, the gospel!

Therefore, through this “mystery,” an essential relationship is established with and for the saints (Rm 8:28-30). This mystery was that all men coming to Jesus in faith, and yield to God’s work within them, will be conformed into the image of Jesus.

 

Here is the point to all that we have considered.  The relationship lost in the fall is reestablished by the death and resurrection of Jesus.  Our belief in Him as Savior, our trust in Him as Lord and God, and our obedient faith in Him make our salvation possible.  Additionally, it was God’s plan to reshape individuals into the image of Christ, an image that He could count as His sons and daughters. 

Now, what does this mean to us? 

Christ’s death for the sin of mankind was purposed and planned before the foundation of the world.  God knew that mankind would sin.  It was not that He purposed temptation and sin, but because He KNEW man would sin and suffer the consequences of that sin, God prepared a way to save and redeem us.  What great love!  (John 3:16-21)

 

Mankind is significant.  I am significant.  My life has meaning.  God so loved me that He worked through the history of mankind just to save me.  He came and died, taking the wrath that belonged to me on him, so that I might have eternal life.

 

God does not want us to be ignorant about His eternal plan.  He has revealed this mystery through the revelation of the Scripture.  I cannot understand the salvation of mankind or my salvation by conjured experience, or by reading the ancient books of philosophy and wisdom of the world.  Nor can I expect to gain enlightenment from the guru’s of mystic religions or even from the so called prophets of modern religion which would give me enough knowledge to live my life to the saving of my soul.  Understanding and knowledge come to us through the pages of only one source, the Bible.  It and it alone, reveal the “mystery” and plan of God.  Therefore we must give time to studying what God wants us to understand.

 

Since God has so willed and plan for redemption, then I can trust Him to do exactly what He said He would do - save me from sin.  Our confidence in the redemption found in Christ is essential for our joy and faithful living.  Our assurance and confidence in Christ gives us the power to live daily in a world filled with death, but not save us from death.  Christ alone saves.  If we do not have this hope, we are of all people the most miserable people on the planet (1Co 15:12-19).

 

The body of Christ has a primary function: proclaiming the message of Christ crucified to the world.  All other purposes are subservient to this purpose. 

History is going somewhere!  We are not just on a mass of rock spinning into oblivion.  God has a purpose and plan for us, and that plan is to be with God forever. 

 

Jesus is the image of God, He is the firstborn from the dead of all creation. He was the “firstborn” of Mary, His mother (Lk 2:7); but that is not the firstborn spoken of in Col 1:15!  The expression used in this passage indicates a “priority to” or “a preeminence over,” in this case, creation.  It has nothing to do with Jesus’ birth. Paul’s use of the word in Colossians as it applies to His eternal relationship with the Father, and the clause means both that He was the "Firstborn" prior to, or before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective in v. 16, makes clear). Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 1:5 have reference to Christ’s resurrection from the dead and receives an immortal body.  Thus, as the first to have a resurrected body, and the only one to this point in time (1Tim 6:14-16), Christ is the “firstborn” among many brethren (Rm 8:29).  The Hebrew writer in explaining the superiority of Jesus, calls him who came into the world, His Son (1:5), superior to all the angels (1:6) who were to worship the Son (1:6), and of the Son God says, “Thy THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER.” (1:8), and that this One, Jesus, created all thing, which expresses the same thing as Col. 1:18; He was the creator.  This one brought into the world through Mary, is superior to all things and will come again as the firstborn to take to heaven all those who are themselves “firstborn ones” (Heb 12:22-24). 

To make the Christ (who is Logos; Lord; Jehovah) lower than God is incorrect.  He is, and always will be, God/Jehovah.  Jesus’ incarnation is a necessary self-subjection to the Godhead.  The salvation of mankind required that incarnation and subjection.

 

Science as a creation of man: 

Certainly “science” is the creation of man, but what is studied is the Creation of God!  Maybe I should have worded that differently, but the point is that GOD is the Creator of everything. And, in some sense, even the sciences. Yes, mankind asks the question.  Yes, humanity tries to find the answer as to how thing work, live, die, regenerate, bred, move, etc.  But God already knows all the questions and the answers we are going to ask as scientists.  With science mankind searches to find the answers.

 

When human beings get involved and try to understand God’s Creation, we often do things that are 1) the results of our own ego, limitations, and perversions of science and the things that science has invented; 2) the results of Satan’s influence on the weakened mind of scientist.  That’s why the study of science and God should be required of all those who would study science.  You remove the spiritual nature of the universe, forget about our moral responsibility to God and others, fail to take care of this world which has been given to us, we will quickly see the destruction of all that God holds dear to Himself.

 

Certainly we need to seek to know God and learn more and more of His holy word.  It is only the revelation given to mankind through the teaching Holy Spirit to the apostles and prophets that is beneficial to students of the God.

 

 

I find it interesting referring to teaching in a way that one would need to be an astrophysics to understand it.

Dose a definition really make any difference when the teaching has been adopted from another source?

 

 

There is a vast difference in using tools (science) as a means for better understanding the word of God and using those tools as rules and laws for making the word of God fit into their parameters as truth only as it fits into what science says is true.  The “last word” should always be from the Bible and the scientific tool.   

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Here

 

That's where we heard it before

Edited February 15, 2015 by ladyGrace'sDaddy

[Nelg]

PART TWO:  An answer to “Fly”

 

In the quoted section by Fly, Nelg’s quotes are in blue; Fly’s quotes are in black. 

My answer will always be in Ariel and 12pt. black. 

 

 

I know it is hard for you to accept, but the Godhead has functioned as One for eternity and does not need either you are me to tell them what they can and cannot do and be.  In my post I try to say what the Bible says with little explanation, but that doesn’t always come across when I don’t site the Scriptures that are making the point.  Actually, I should stop assuming that you know these things.  What I state is in the Bible and I will try to make it a little easier for you.

We may have a different definition.  I prefer not to use the term since it is not a biblical word, I wonder why it is not a biblical term and as such is subject to several human definitions.  

I said this in regard to the term “Trinity.”  I prefer the term “Godhead” or “Deity” who is One.  Trinity is a term that can mean three different Gods, which I do not believe.  I believe in ONE God Who has manifested Himself in three ways. 

Oh… ok then… wait for it… I prefer to say the Father is God, Jesus is God, Holy Spirit is God. But Father is not Jesus, Jesus is not the Spirit, and Spirit is not the Father.  All are God. Oh… now that really simplifies it…but wait there’s more… Yet Jesus says that He is sending the Spirit to the disciples, and then says that He is coming to them.  He also said that He and the Father are One. The Spirit is called the Lord, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, and all are God. so since this now has been made perfectly clear as the bibles teaching  

We are limited in our understand of God. but not this limited! none of this can be proven biblically as it is only backed by mans belief system We talk of each and think of each as separate beings with separate personalities and thoughts. This is appositely true of Jesus and his Father Jehovah God, not though of the Holy Spirit, as this is not a person, being or individual, this is Jehovah God’s active force or “power” It is human thinking and limited. You believe this as you are the one saying it It is hard for us to envision how God can be One and yet separate to function as three persons, yet God did just that.  The entire Godhead was in the beginning creating, planning, and functioning as One with the same mind and same judgment and the same One God. The separation was necessary in order to redeem humanity. Not one bit of this teaching can be found anywhere in the scriptures That is the wonder of Philippians 2:5-11. “Wonder” must be another prefer word, were as the teachers of the hand me down adopted teaching uses the prefer word “mystery.”   Actually, "mystery" has reference to the plan of God kept hidden from "before the foundation of the world," but made know to the apostles and prophets to disclose to the church.  I addressed this in Part One.  Enjoy.

 

Because you have a major problem with the Godhead. I will address this below.  The article you posted had little to do with the Godhead, but with the Catholic Church.  You will need to take that up with them and not me.  However, I will address one thing.  I do not interpret Revelation with the tired and wrongly applied stance that it is about "the Catholic Church."  Maybe, but I see no real interpretation.  More like a weak application.  

 

I have outlined my post below.  The Deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit will be posted by tomorrow afternoon or evening.  

   

The Godhead

 

Throughout the history of the church, the enemies of God have attacked the Biblical teaching concerning His Nature, particularly the Deity of the Son of God. The doctrine we touch upon in this chapter is one of the most attacked (and best and most consistently defended) of all the major teachings of the Faith: God is Triune, eternally existing as Father, Son, and Spirit (three personalities that are personally distinct)--yet there is only one God.

This has been called the doctrine of the GODHEAD since the days of the early church, but the early church wars and the philosophical debates surrounding that doctrine, have obscured the fact that the doctrine of the Godhead is solidly supported by Holy Scripture, and is directly drawn from the Scriptures.

 

Now that is easy to say.  I can go to the Scripture and read biblical passages that teach this biblical doctrine, but don’t ask me to explain the “mind of God” concerning how this can be?  I don’t know.  I believe and teach this truth(s) because it is found in the Bible and I believe God.  There are many things about God that I do not understand.  If you hear anyone (except Christ or the Spirit) say that they understand all about God, then you need to run as far away from them as possible.  They have started out with a lie. Therefore you know their “father.  Just think about it for a moment . . . this biblical doctrine is addressing the essential nature of God, how can we expect to understand it fully?!

 

Be warned.  Nearly every cult that has departed from the biblical faith has either begun from someone trying to explain the Godhead or a perversion of that doctrine has been close to the center of the movement.  The cults and false religions have a problem with the deity of Jesus in particular, or the deity of the Holy Spirit.  Basically they will say that the Spirit is a “power” and not a Person.  It began during the years immediately after the resurrection of Christ and continues to today’s among those deny the deity of the Godhead.

 

Now, as I discuss this on the venue of this format, I will try to avoid using unbiblical or technical theological language, and will keep my statement biblical and will back up my presentation with passages as taught in the context of Scripture. Because of the vast importance of this doctrine, and the need to cover all the bases, I'll give you a lot of verses to look up on your own.

 

The doctrine of the Godhead has these elements:

(1) There is only One True God (monotheism);

(2) There is a plurality of persons within God, and this plurality is not imaginary, pretended, or temporary;

(3) The Father is God

(4) The Son is God

(5) The Holy Spirit is God.

In other words: 1+1+1=1(3).  That is, the sum of the three is still only one, yet there is a "threeness" that the Bible expresses clearly without ever attempting to explain. Again, there is no context or section of Scripture that explains the Godhead; it only discloses that there is One God manifested as Three Personalities  

 

Monotheism: There is Only One True God

Many of the enemies of Christianity, including Muslims, Jews, and cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, have charged that the Godhead constitutes paganism, polytheism, the worship of more than one "god." However, the foundation of the doctrine of God's tri-unity is that there is only One God. It is emphatically taught in both the Old and New Testaments.

 

 

The statement of faith of Israel was (and is) "hear oh, Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD." (Deut 6:4). When asked, Jesus said more than once that this was the most important of all the commandments (Mark 12:28-34).

The absoluteness of this monism of God is stated again and again in the Old Testament:

". . . there is no god with me" (Deut 32:39);

". . . I am the LORD, and there is none else" (Isa 45:18)

". . . before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isa 43:10).

Similarly, the New Testament expresses the oneness of God:

"There is one God and one mediator between God and man (1 Tim 2:5);

". . .and this is eternal life, that they might know thee, the only True God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent . . ." (John 17:3).

 

 

In the Old Testament, God proclaimed Himself under many names, each expressing different attributes of Him, but the characteristic name He used with His covenant people was YHWH (or JHVH, depending on how you express the Hebrew letters in English), a word with no vowels. This has been transliterated into English as either Jehovah or Yahweh.

 

 

The reliable English Bible translations universally translate it in English as either LORD or GOD, using all capital letters to indicate that it is the NAME. Jehovah defined His Name to Moses in Exodus 3:14: " . . .I AM THAT I AM: and He said: Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me to you." "I AM THAT I AM" . . .

Jehovah owes His existence to no one or nothing--He is the self-existent One, The Only True God.

 

Plurality: Within the One True God Exists a Plurality of Persons

 

In light of the strong declarations the Bible makes on monotheism, this is a perplexing assertion. However, the Bible is just as plain on this point.

 

There is most definitely only One God, however, there is also a plurality, a "threeness" about God that the Bible expresses, which we cannot define in human terms in light of His one-ness.

 

 

First, there are plural terms and names applied to God. The most prevalent in the Bible is the Hebrew Elohim. The Cults have invented all sorts of spurious reasons why the Bible might use such a plural term to describe the One God, but Moses could have used other names of God: Eloah, the singular of Elohim, which is used in mostly poetic literature.  He knew the singular terms, but he didn’t use that term.  He chose, by design, to use the plural word Elohim, because that is the word that was used by God in the burning bush. 

 

Other plural terms used for God in the Old Testament include panim (equivalent to the Greek prosopa, for "faces," "persons," or "presence,") which is found in Exodus 33:14-15, Psalm 27:8-9, and Deuteronomy 4:37; the literal Hebrew for Maker in Job 35:10, Psalm 149:2, and Isaiah 54:5, is the plural, Makers; for creator in Ecclesiastes 12:1, the literal Hebrew is Creators.

 

God also is described with plural pronouns, as in ". . . Let us make man in our image." (Gen 1:25), see also Genesis 11:6-8 and Isaiah 6:8. Finally, in Isaiah 48:16-17 is a statement that, read in the light of the New Testament, is as plain a statement of the Godhead as anywhere in the Bible, as the Lord GOD (Adonai Jehovah) has sent Me, and His Spirit. Thus saith the Lord (Jehovah), your Redeemer, the Set-apart One of Yisra’el, “I am” (Jehovah) your God (Elohim) are mentioned in the same context as separate persons. [Read “The Scriptures,” Institute for Scripture Research]

 

Of course, there are many Scriptures in the New Testament that speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the same context, and with an obvious view to distinction between them.  The most striking is the Baptism of Jesus in Matthew 3:16-17.  “And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and coming upon Him and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”  Note that the all three are represented:  Jesus was baptized, the Spirit descended as a Dove, and the Father speaks from heaven. 

 In John chapters 14-16, there are repeated references to this distinction. 

[Nelg]

We are limited in our understand of God. but not this limited! none of this can be proven biblically as it is only backed by mans belief system We talk of each and think of each as separate beings with separate personalities and thoughts. This is appositely true of Jesus and his Father Jehovah God, not though of the Holy Spirit, as this is not a person, being or individual, this is Jehovah God’s active force or “power” It is human thinking and limited. You believe this as you are the one saying it It is hard for us to envision how God can be One and yet separate to function as three persons, yet God did just that.  The entire Godhead was in the beginning creating, planning, and functioning as One with the same mind and same judgment and the same One God. The separation was necessary in order to redeem humanity. Not one bit of this teaching can be found anywhere in the scriptures That is the wonder of Philippians 2:5-11. “Wonder” must be another prefer

I have underlined and put in bold your unfortunate statement.  If this cannot be found in the Bible, then WHY did you not find them since I had no problem finding these passages?  Hummm.  

The Father is God

This should go without saying, but for those modalists who reject the permanence of the first person of the Godhead, we say (a) Jesus is repeatedly called the Son of God, therefore God is a Father, and the Father is God. ( There is no Scripture that even hints that the Father ever ceases to be a separate person. © There are many Scriptures that establish that there is a distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The problem here is that when people approach Scripture with a preconceived idea (such as the false doctrine that there is no distinction between Father and Son), they find things in the Bible that are not there!

Another difficulty prominent among those who deny that Jesus is God is that many people misunderstand the relationship of the Father to Jesus Christ. The reason for the confusion among some is that they concentrate on statements made by and about Jesus during His period of humiliation on earth. The eternal relationship between Father and Son is one between equals.  “These things Jesus spoke; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, ’Father, the hour has come; glorify Thy Son; that the Son may glorify Thee, even as Thou gavest Him authority over all mankind that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent.  I glorified Thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which Thou hast given Me to do.  And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I ever had with Thee before the world was.’” (cf John 17:1-5).  See how He talks to the Father?  I have already discussed Heb 1:1-14, where the Father orders the angels to worship Him.  (Above.) Christ Jesus was one with the Father; is the Giver of Eternal life; has authority over all mankind; authority was given to Him by the Father; He was sent by the Father; he accomplished the work given Him by the Father; He had the same glory as the Father.  All of this Scripture shows both the equality Christ had with the Father and servitude Jesus had to the Father.  Distinction and equal. 

Such statements as ". . . my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28), must be understood in the light of Jesus' purpose in His earthly ministry, His incarnation and coming in the flesh. In Hebrews, after beginning by expounding on the exalted and absolute divinity of the Son (1:1-14) the writer states, "but we see Jesus, who was made a little lower (or, for a little while lower) than the angels for the suffering of death . . ." (see also Phil. 2:5-11). Jesus came to earth to accomplish eternal redemption. His essential Godhood was veiled, hidden, in flesh. But, as our next point states: Christ is also God. 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

. my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/196413-four-blood-moons-something-is-about-to-change/page-4#ixzz3RpMKn5tS

 

Very good post Nelg, but I still think it's a simple concept to take. 

 

If one is truly willing to see. For there is none so blind as those that will not see. 

 

For example 

 

Jesus said his Father was greater than he was, in the same way that we would say 

 

the body can't live without the mind. Therefor, the mind would be greater. Yet the 

 

mind would be useless without the body and therefor the two are one in purpose, 

 

or essentially equal.  

[Nelg]

Jesus Christ is God

He is not just the Son of God, but He is God the Son. This is the foundation doctrine of Christianity--Jesus Himself said " . . . for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins." (John 8:24) (Note: the word "he" is not in the original.) This is not just a speculative, philosophical teaching--unless God redeems us Himself, we cannot be redeemed (see Psa 49:7,15)!

 

As we begin to examine evidence that supports the claim that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh or God incarnate, a good starting point is Jesus’ own self concept.

 

It must first be admitted that Jesus never defines His place in the Godhead in theological language. However, He made many statements about himself that would be not only inappropriate, but blasphemous if He was not God in the flesh. It is important to remember that Jesus’ life was not spent doing theology or thinking and writing about theological issues. Instead, His life was focused on relationships, first with His disciples, and then with the Jewish people. The purpose of these relationships was to engender in these people a belief in Jesus as their Savior or Messiah, as their only source of salvation.

Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders of His day, that they would die in their sins if they did not believe that He was who He claimed to be (John 8:24).  

Unless He was God, it would have been highly inappropriate for Jesus to say, as He does in Matthew 13:41, that both the angels and the kingdom are His. Elsewhere, angels are called “the angels of God” (Luke 12:8 9; 15:10) and the phrase Kingdom of God is found throughout the Scriptures. But Jesus says, “The Son of man (term of the Messiah in the flesh) will send “His” angels, and they will gather out of “His” kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers” (Matt. 13:41).  Are the “angels of God” Christ’s, or is Jesus correct in saying that are “His” angels? 

When the paralytic in Mark 2:5 was lowered through the roof by his friends, Jesus’ first response was to say that the man’s sins were forgiven. The scribes knew the implications of this statement, for only God could forgive sin. Yes, we are ask to forgive the sins of others, but this is not the same as the forgiveness received by Jehovah God.  Their remarks clearly show that they understood Jesus to be exercising a divine privilege. Jesus had an opportunity to set the record straight at this point in His ministry by denying that He had the authority to do what only God can do (Mk 2:7). Instead, His response only reinforces His claim to be deity. Jesus says, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic,  ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say,  ‘Rise, take up your pallet and walk’?”  Then Jesus says something unusual, “But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” - - He said to the paralytic, ‘I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home” (Mk 2:9-11). The religious leaders knew immediately who Jesus was claiming to be. 

 

We know Jesus is God because He is called God (John 1:1) by John, the apostle.  “In the beginning was the Word [logos], and the Word [logos] was God [Theos/Elohim].” Prior to Jesus’ incarnation, he existed as God and with God (Jn 1:1-3). As “logos” He was equal with God, but was willing to become “flesh” and dwell among us (1:14) as the “only begotten” from the Father.  Because no man has seen God at any time; “the only begotten God” explained Him to us (Jn 1:18).  If the “logos” was equal to Jehovah, why do some say that he was merely “a god” or “god-like”?  The Greek text of verse 1 has no definite article (“the”) in the phrase, “and the Word was with God.”

Therefore, some religious groups are tempted to add the indefinite article (“a”), which the Greek language does not have.  This they argue allows the noun God to be translated as an indefinite noun, perhaps referring to “a God” but not “the” almighty God. Sometimes that is an appropriate translation, but not always, and not in this case.  The definite article in Greek specifies a particular object (person, place or thing). It is as if one pointed to one apple in a group of apples and said “that one.”  An anarthrous Greek noun (a noun without an article), on the other hand, signifies the quality or characteristic of the specified noun.  Thus, the phrase, “And the Word was God” describes the Word as having “God-quality or character.” Instead of saying that Jesus was merely “a god” or “god-like,” this verse is an explicit claim to the deity of Jesus. The first phrase might literally be translated: “When the beginning began, the Word was already there.” In other words, the “Word” co- existed with God and predates time and creation.

The second phrase “The Word was with God” indicates both equality and distinction of identity. A more literal translation might be “face to face with God” implying personality and relational coexistence.

Actually, the lack of an article for the noun makes the case for the deity of the “Word” more clearly. The Greek phrase, “theos en ho logos” is describing the nature of the “Word,” not the nature of God. The article “ho” before the word “logos” shows that the sentence is describing the nature of the Word; He is of the same nature and essence as the noun in the predicate; that is, the Word is divine.

 

Jesus also claimed to have existed prior to His incarnation on earth. In John 8:58 He says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.” Some believe that the words used here by Jesus constitute His strongest claim to deity. The Jews recognized the phrase “I am” as one referring to God because God used it (1) to describe himself when He commissioned Moses to demand the release of His people from Pharaoh (Exodus 3:14), and (2) to identify himself in Isaiah. The Jews hearing Jesus understood the nature of these claims. After His comment about pre-existing Abraham, they immediately picked up stones to kill Him for blasphemy because they understood that He had declared himself God.

 

In John 20: 28, where Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God . . .," the literal Greek rendering is " . . .the Lord of me, and the God of me." Hebrews 1:4-14 is a most remarkable Scripture passage, as Old Testament prophets are quoted to show (1) God calls Christ His Son, ( He tells angels to worship Christ, an honor belonging to Jehovah alone (Isa 42:8), © He calls the Son, God. He declares that the kingdom of Christ is eternal.

Another reason we know He is God is that the works of God are ascribed to Him. Creation (John 1:3, Heb 1:2) Preservation of the universe (Col. 1:17, Heb 1:2-3), the sending of the Spirit of God (John 16:7) the forgiveness of sins (Acts 5:30-31) and the giving of eternal life (John 17:2-3) are just a few examples of the divine works He did.

He demonstrated His power over nature, over disease, demon powers, even over death, and on two occasions, he let the veil of His humanity up a bit. On the mount of Transfiguration, He allowed the disciples with Him to see His Glorious being as it really was, and when the soldiers came to get Him in the Garden, He knocked them to the ground by saying . . . "I AM." (The word “he,” which follows "I AM" in most translations is not in the original) (John 18:4-6). Truly He did the works of God.

 

Yet another reason we know that The Son is God is He possesses divine attributes. The Bible says He has Self existence (John 5:26), Eternity (John 1:2), Omniscience (John 1:48), Omnipresence (Matt 18:20--note that He was on earth, and in the flesh, and used the present tense, showing that He had this attribute even in His earthly ministry), Immutability (Heb 13:8), Sovereignty (Matt 11:27), and Omnipotence (Matt 28:18-20).

There is a strong statement of the absolute Deity of Messiah in Jeremiah 23:5-6:

" . . . Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby He shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." Here we have Jehovah God clearly speaking, and just as plainly speaking of Messiah, and the Name He gives Messiah is Jehovah-Tsidkenu-- the sovereign Jehovah calls the Messiah Jehovah!

 

In Jesus’ trial He makes a clear declaration of who He is. The Jews argued before Pilate in John 19:7, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

Matthew 26 records that at Jesus’ trial, the high priest tells Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus replies, “You have said it yourself, . . . But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Again, the Jews understand what Jesus is saying. The high priest proclaims, “He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy.” He calls for a vote of the council, and they demand His death (Matt. 26:65-66).

 

This would have been a wonderful opportunity for Jesus to save himself by clearing up any misconceptions concerning His relationship with the Father. Instead, He places himself in a position of equality and of unique power and authority.

The next reason we know that the Son is eternal God Himself, is that He is worshipped. Isaiah 42:8, Exodus 20:3, and many other Old Testament passages forbid the worship of anyone but Jehovah God Himself--yet we see in many passage that Christ is worshipped (examples--Phil. 2:9-10, Acts 7:59-60, Rev. 5:6-14, which is worship in heaven itself. More than that, Jesus accepts worship as God (Mt 16:15-16; 26:6-13; Lk 5:8-9; 7:36-50; 19:35-40; Jn 20:27-29).

Another indicator of how Jesus perceived himself is in His use of Old Testament Scripture and the way He made His own proclamations of truth.

In a number of cases, Jesus began a sentence with “You have heard that it was said, . . . but I say to you. . . .” (Matt. 5:21-22, 27-28). Jesus was giving His words the same authority as the Scriptures.

Even the prophets, when speaking for God, would begin their statements with: “The word of the Lord came to me,” but Jesus begins with: “I say to you.”

Over and over again Jesus makes it plain that He was God who had become man in order to accomplish the work of the Godhead in the redemption of mankind from sin and death. 

The most difficult think for man to understand is how God could become man.  It boggles the brain as individuals try to “figure it out.”  Satan tried to stop God from saving man, but he never understood the wisdom and knowledge of God. 

I don’t know why or how God could forgive me of sin and free me from death and punishment.  What I do know is He did and I am thankful for His mercy and grace.  Thank God for “the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.” (Acts 20:28). 

Coming next – The Holy Spirit is God.

. my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/196413-four-blood-moons-something-is-about-to-change/page-4#ixzz3RpMKn5tS

 

Very good post Nelg, but I still think it's a simple concept to take. 

 

If one is truly willing to see. For there is none so blind as those that will not see. 

 

For example 

 

Jesus said his Father was greater than he was, in the same way that we would say 

 

the body can't live without the mind. Therefor, the mind would be greater. Yet the 

 

mind would be useless without the body and therefor the two are one in purpose, 

 

or essentially equal.  

I agree that it is simple if we accept the Bible and the deity of the Godhead.  When one comes to the Scriptures with preconceived beliefs then it becomes more difficult to see.  A teacher's responsibility is to teach God's word as truth, correct error when necessary and hold fast to the faith.  

My prayer is that Fly will see that he is flying too close to the flames by rejecting the deity of Jesus.

Keep praying LG'sD.   

[waterman13]

and I am the son of God, because of His Grace and His Word. Praise Jesus! (Yeshua)

Wm13

[George Hayduke]

Nicely done Nelg.  Thanks for the time and prayer put into it.