There Seems to be Confusion on what "Lifting the Zeros" Means

[ewingm]

Reading the Dinar Forum upstairs, I saw that when the Energy spokesman said they would "lift the zeros" in 2015, virtually every poster was happy, happy, happy, leaving me with the impression that the majority of dinarians posting must feel that "lifting the zeros" refers to changing the exchange rate from .00086 to .86, WITHOUT changing the currency. This of course would make every iraqi very much more wealthy than when they went to sleep.  I wonder what would happen to the marketplace prices in the following days.  I bet the prices for a pair of shoes would skyrocket!  Now if you believe that lifting the zeros means off the currency bills, then they are talking about a redenomination.  Producing currency bills without the three zeros.  This is what countries with hyperinflated M2's do.  They print new currency lifting the zeros and then run two currencies concurrently for a couple of years.  Market prices stay the same.  No inflation.  Now which scenario I just presented makes the most sense? 

[boosterbglee]

SO which one do YOU want?   

[Nadita]

SO which one do YOU want?   

Boost

 

LOL... you just cut the chase lol

[ewingm]

Its not a matter of what I want.  Its a matter of what it means to lift the zeros.  If you change the exchange rate from .00086 to .86 that is a 100,000 % revalue.  If the currency then remains with all the zeros, you have made every single iraqi, and of course millions of worldwide speculators very rich.  But you must look at the effect that would have on goods and services in the iraqi marketplace.  Total chaos!  That's why it has NEVER been done like that.  No sovereign government would intentionally create such an economic nightmare for its citizens.  Everything in Iraq would be subject to an almost instantaneous explosion of prices.  Hyperinflation gone wild.  You don't need a degree in Gruber economics to see the result of that decision.  That's why I believe they are referring to a currency redenomination lifting the zeros.  Its the only thing that makes sense.

[dinarbeleiver]

You obviously have no clue what so ever ewingm totally clueless - why don't we discuss what happened when the german Deutschmark was given value after being exchanged with the reictmark and the effect it had on goods and services! I fancy wiping the floor with your complete ignorance

If the currency increases in value that makes goods and services cheaper it means you can buy more- God you lopsters are desperate to pull the wool over people's eyes

Just because shoes are worth 4000 dinars one day if the value of the currency goes up the price of the shoes is adjusted - that's why we have a dollarisation in Iraq at the moment

4000 dinars may buy you one pair of shoes to throw, then after currency reform the same 4000 dinar note will buy you 4000 shoes to throw - the price of the shoes will be adjusted however because they have prices in dollars they will have a guide

If the dinar is suddenly made 1-1

There are two sets of prices in Iraq and that's a fact a dollar price and a dinar price

[v-star 650]

also look at  what  happened  when the dinar tumbled ,  did the  value of things go down with the  dinar de-value ?  {  dinar from over 3.oo   too dinar  too - 3000  per  }  did the  values  of  consumables  fall  ?  I do not  know ,   but   if  the  value of  these  things stayed  the  same  when dinar fell ,   why could they not  just  reverse  the  idea ,   things stay the same , and the dinar  gets  re-valued  too 1 too 1 ....  easy cheesy ....   well in my world  any way !  ...............   the reason  you see every one in dinar lands  get so excited by the  mention of  dinar  gaining in value  is ,  the hopes  that  every one will make  a  nice  profit  from sitting on  paper  that  every one  else in the world  bashed , { saying  the dinar  will be nothing , it is  a bad  investment ,  you would be  a  fool  too invest in dinar scam }   if the dinar  made it too even  1  dinar  equals  1 dollar ,  then  the   masses of  the world  would  be in a  rage  because  they  followed  the   --- nay sayers ----    {  the  same   was true  for  the  ford  and chevy  stocks , during  the last  economic   down  turn , if you had  the  cash , and the  good fortune  to purchase  either of these  stocks  in the 2009  too 2010`s   your  good fortune  ,  just  went  from  1.50 per share  too  30 .oo  dollars  per share ------->  so  why  could  the dinar  not follow  the  same  ride ?  }    

[staunch]

What really jacks everything up is the fact that we assign a $ USD amount to the dinar (because it's pegged to USD) if they released the dinar from the peg and dedollarized, then they could do whatever they want with the dinar.

As it stands right now, the direct link between international (pegged) value and what the dinar will buy on the streets screws up any monetary value change because of all the USD riding along right beside the dinar in the streets.

OMG...that didn't come out like I was thinking. Too early, not enough coffee. Maybe I'll try again later.

Edited December 10, 2014 by staunch

[Shabibilicious]

 

GO RV, and NO BV    

[dontlop]

Its not a matter of what I want.  Its a matter of what it means to lift the zeros.  If you change the exchange rate from .00086 to .86 that is a 100,000 % revalue.  If the currency then remains with all the zeros, you have made every single iraqi, and of course millions of worldwide speculators very rich.  But you must look at the effect that would have on goods and services in the iraqi marketplace.  Total chaos!  That's why it has NEVER been done like that.  No sovereign government would intentionally create such an economic nightmare for its citizens.  Everything in Iraq would be subject to an almost instantaneous explosion of prices.  Hyperinflation gone wild.  You don't need a degree in Gruber economics to see the result of that decision.  That's why I believe they are referring to a currency redenomination lifting the zeros.  Its the only thing that makes sense.

Protecting your family are YA???

Explain how your protecting your family by starting this topic?

You said they refuse to come to this web site , so how is this protecting your family ??????

I'd say you spend 25 to 50 times more time here on this web site than you do with your family

You don't have a family do YA ?

You over invested and sold out for a loss.

A big loss

Now your mad because no one will listen to you

Ah ha ha ha ha ha

[rockfl9]

NOT surprised that the chimp twins add NOTHING NEW to this topic . Brains are stuck in 2004 Iraq. Learned nothing in 10 years.

[dontlop]

also look at what happened when the dinar tumbled , did the value of things go down with the dinar de-value ? { dinar from over 3.oo too dinar too - 3000 per } did the values of consumables fall ? I do not know , but if the value of these things stayed the same when dinar fell , why could they not just reverse the idea , things stay the same , and the dinar gets re-valued too 1 too 1 .... easy cheesy .... well in my world any way ! ............... the reason you see every one in dinar lands get so excited by the mention of dinar gaining in value is , the hopes that every one will make a nice profit from sitting on paper that every one else in the world bashed , { saying the dinar will be nothing , it is a bad investment , you would be a fool too invest in dinar scam } if the dinar made it too even 1 dinar equals 1 dollar , then the masses of the world would be in a rage because they followed the --- nay sayers ---- { the same was true for the ford and chevy stocks , during the last economic down turn , if you had the cash , and the good fortune to purchase either of these stocks in the 2009 too 2010`s your good fortune , just went from 1.50 per share too 30 .oo dollars per share -------> so why could the dinar not follow the same ride ? }

It didn't just went from

Saddam accumulated debt that had to be paid back and inflated his currency by printing up more

They only had 28 billion dinar when it was worth 3 dollars each

90 billion dollars worth

Now they have 1000 times that many

28 trillion

It's what countrys do when they kinda like go Bankrupt

They just keep printing up money to pay their bills and diluting the value to compensate

It's like this

You got a bottle of vodka enough for 30 drinks or 30 shots in each bottle

But 90 people show up and everyone wants a drink

YA water it down till YA get 90 drinks

It's still a drink

But it's diluted

The dinar is diluted

It's done

YA don't just undilute it

It's to late

You can't undilute the watered down drinks

You can have a thousand dinar worth a thousand bucks or a million dinar worth a thousand bucks

If you owed 1 million dinar what would you want to pay them in ? If they were owed in dinar. They still get a million dinar but it's only worth 1000

But they were owed 1 million dinar and were paid one million dinar

Saddam owed his military pay checks

He owed all his contractors

So he just printed up Dinar and diluted it down

It doesn't matter which one you "want"

It is what it is

NOT surprised that the chimp twins add NOTHING NEW to this topic . Brains are stuck in 2004 Iraq. Learned nothing in 10 years.

What did you add ,?? your ignorant comment ? Edited December 10, 2014 by dontlop

[Shabibilicious]

NOT surprised that the chimp twins add NOTHING NEW to this topic . Brains are stuck in 2004 Iraq. Learned nothing in 10 years.

 

Before I falsely accuse and inadvertently stomp on you........could you be more specific in identifying the "chimp twins"?       Please keep in mind the lop has been discussed ad nauseum for years....therefore "NOTHING NEW" would certainly define this topic.   

 

GO RV, and NO BV

Edited December 10, 2014 by Shabibilicious

[ewingm]

People, you are all missing the point.  If the dinar were to RV 100,000% overnight, that means every single iraqi wakes up 1000 times richer then when he went to bed.  Prices for food, clothes, SHOES, etc will all begin to skyrocket to catch up to the windfall.  Example:  An iraqi has a savings account with 50,000 dimar in it ($50).  In the marketplace, shoes cost 1000 dinars( $1). Then the 100,000% RV happens.  His account still has 50,000 dinar in it, but its now worth $50,000 DOLLARS.  He went from having $50 dollars worth of spending power to $50,000 dollars of spending power.!!  Now multiply that scenario times 30 million iraqis and you begin to see what will instantly begin to happen to their economic structures.  Prices for EVERYTHINGnwill begin to skyrocket !  Emplyer will not know what to pay their employees for salary now that every dinar they earn is worth 1000 times more!  Think, people.  All I'm asking is that you think.  Quit dreaming about becoming a millionaire and look realistically at this scenario.  This is why this has NEVER been done by a country in the history of the world.  This is not a value neutral event.  This makes everyone richer then they were before.  CUrrencymreforms are almost always value NEUTRAL for this very reason.  Think.

[dontlop]

And what happens ewingm ?

Can you say they buy everything under the sun?

Can you say they can't buy it in iraq unless it's imported ?

Can you say the external debt goes into trillions of dollars ?

Can you say Iraqs total income is around 80 billion a year ?

Can you say their debt to GDP moves to 1000% debt to GDP ?

Saddams debt to GDP was 600% and that destroyed the dinars value

If they experienced a 1000% debt to GDP they would be way way worse off than saddam ever was

Trade deficits destroy a nation

There is nothng for us to learn about that , so if you know go explain it to your relatives

And quit pretending your here to protect your reletives

[ewingm]

I CAN say that it would create a nightmare of chaos. That is the reason NO nation has done such a thing. NEVER in HISTORY.  They perform a redenomination with months of public announcements making sure that everyone understands that it is VALUE NEUTRAL.  That is how it is done.  Google it if you don't believe me.  This isn't rocket science.  You don't make 100,000% overnight RV's of a currency.  This is the piece that no guru discusses because they KNOW what I'm saying is correct.  It would create chaos in iraq.  Absolute chaos.  When they "lift the zeros" it will be through a value neutral event of a redenomination.  It is what the CBI has been stating for years.  And a redenomination is BAD for overseas speculators of dinars.  It will create chaos in the US.  So a 100,000% RV is chaos for iraqis and a RD is chaos for dinarians.  Which way do you think the FO and CBI is going to go?  Let me guess.

Edited December 10, 2014 by ewingm

[Shabibilicious]

You want me to tell you.....or you want to guess?  Make up your mind.  Sheesh.    

 

GO RV, and NO BV

[staunch]

The point I was trying to make earlier (and did so poorly) was that a dinar is only worth a dinar on the iraqi streets regardless of what it's worth against the USD. It's having the dual currency in iraq that negates any change in the value of the dinar. Whichever becomes stronger, they will use. To effectively raise the value of the dinar against the dollar without creating this hyper inflated economy, you would have to rid yourself of the dollar and impose penalties for using it. I'm not even sure if it is possible to do that.

But again, a dinar is worth a dinar in iraq. Just because you can buy x amount of dollars with it, you can only buy one dinar with one dinar

[dontlop]

When a citizen spends domestic currency outside of his country that's creating debt for your country

It's not creating debt as long as it's circulating inside iraq

The minute it leaves Iraq its debt

It's supposed to be offset in trade but iraq trades 90% of its exports in dollars

So they aren't creating debt for the dinar so they just keep debuting the dinar with dollars instead

Over and over the cbi rebuts the same dinar that's backed up already

But all the dinar outside of iraq is soveriegn debt

That's why the iraq dinar has never been traded on the international exchange

Ever

It's always just been a local currency

Edited December 10, 2014 by dontlop

[ewingm]

Staunch, you are way over simplifying this, my brother.  Yes, a dinar is just a dinar when they are at .00086.  Iraq's businesses and food markets all accept that the dinar right NOW is worth .00086 of a dollar.  They know this because the dinar is PEGGED to the dollar.  But if you overnight RV 100,000%,  now the dinar is worth .86 of that pegged dollar.  ALL commodities, foodstuffs, clothing rent, electricity, etc. etc. must now be rapidly and SIMULTANEOUSLY adjusted upwards by 1000 times!  Everyone is running around in iraq not knowing exactly what something or someone is actually worth.  Total chaos!  That is why it is NEVER, NEVER done this way.  Now if the CBI wants to slowly revalue the 1166 exchange rate with small 50 pip moves OVER TIME, then the market has time to adjust without causing mass panic and chaos.

[dontlop]

Ewingm that's not true

Iraq likes a highly valued dinar because it makes imports cheaper in Iraqs markets

If I sell toothbrushes to iraq right now for a dollars worth of dinars and they rvd I woukd sell iraq toothbrushes for a dollars worth of dinars

You and others have pushed that crap that phisical goods and services would cost more after a rv

But that's not true at all

Not even a little bit true

A dollars worth of dinars will always be a dollars worth of dinars no matter what the exchange rate is

A dollars worth please

The price is exactly what a dollars worth is at the time

If a barrel of oil is 90 dollars or 90,000 dinars and the dinar exchange rate went to a dollar for a Dinar , the new price of oil would be 90 dollars or 90 dinars , since they both equal the same in value

Currency is not good or silver its a unit of payment based on goods and services

Nothing else

A unit of payment

The iraqi govt can print up 500 trillion dinar today and make the value equal ten dollars each and when they pay their debts that's the amount they are charged according to the exchange rate that the iraq govt decides to put on their own currency

No imf is setting currency exchange rates

They can recommend one but not impose one

And reccommend no one excepted them at a given exchange rate or except them based on financial auditing

At the request of the iraqi govt

Govts invite the imf to audit and monitor and make recommendations , this is a benifit to the country to show they are ligitimate

But it is in no way required

[ewingm]

You are correct, but you are describing a REDENOMINATION!  If iraq were to simply RV 100,000% without REDUCING the outstanding dinar count, you would load up the amount of dollar's worth by a factor of 1000 times.  You can increase the exchange rate from .00086 to .86, but you must SIMULTANEOUSLY REDUCE the dinar count if the event is to remain neutral.  The CBI has repeatedly said the reform would be value NEUTRAL.  What about this simple exercise in monetary reform don't you get?

[dontlop]

Depreciation and devaluation are sometimes incorrectly used interchangeably, but they always refer to values in terms of other currencies. Inflation, on the other hand, refers to the value of the currency in goods and services (related to its purchasing power). Altering the face value of a currency without reducing its exchange rate is a redenomination, not a devaluation or revaluation.

Who doesn't understand it ewingm?

You need to learn how to speak intelligently

Then you might be able to explain yourself

Just because you insist on having a ten year old conversation over and over every day doesn't mean no one understands

Everyone just wants to rich from bs what's wrong with that

Pretending is fun

Like you pretending your here to protect someone that isn't here

[dontlop]

What now

You gonna say it again ?

WE KNOW !!!!

We're pretnding like you

He's wingm

You can buy all the dinar you want if your interested

[keepmwlknfny]

You obviously have no clue what so ever ewingm totally clueless - why don't we discuss what happened when the german Deutschmark was given value after being exchanged with the reictmark and the effect it had on goods and services! I fancy wiping the floor with your complete ignorance

If the currency increases in value that makes goods and services cheaper it means you can buy more- God you lopsters are desperate to pull the wool over people's eyes

Just because shoes are worth 4000 dinars one day if the value of the currency goes up the price of the shoes is adjusted - that's why we have a dollarisation in Iraq at the moment

4000 dinars may buy you one pair of shoes to throw, then after currency reform the same 4000 dinar note will buy you 4000 shoes to throw - the price of the shoes will be adjusted however because they have prices in dollars they will have a guide

If the dinar is suddenly made 1-1

There are two sets of prices in Iraq and that's a fact a dollar price and a dinar price

You still don't know the difference between a RD and and a RV when looking at it....The german currency was redenominated. There was no profit to be made on that transaction. It was a wash...

[ewingm]

Save your breath, Keeps.  DinarBeliever is too far down the pike to see reality.  Anything short of a value neutral currency reform will bring utter chaos to the iraqi economy.  A 100,000% RV without lopping the zeros off the currency will lead to a nightmarish scenario.  Nobody would know what to charge or what anything is worth.  The currency reform MUST be value neutral, OR very small incremental changes (pips) in the 1166 exchange rate over time.  Slowly.  That allows the market to correct appropriately.  I can't see why the speculator has a difficult time understanding this fundemental economic tenet.  Dreams get in the way, I guess.