FBI PUBLISHES REPORT STATING NOBODY DIED AT SANDY HOOK

[DiveDeepSix]

^{So you are saying that Sandy Hook never even happened huh?}  

 

I don't think with out rock solid proof I could ever say that, because if I were wrong I couldn't live with myself for how it would make the families of the dead feel.  The government knows this as well, so anyone who questions it gets to look like a complete @$$ from the media.  I do however firmly believe there was more to it then meets the eye and the government was involved or knew about it at some level, most likely we will never know, unless of course they want us to, which could of course be their agenda from the start, knowing it would cause a massive revolution hence giving them the power to do what they want ( or would like to do) to us commoners!  Disarm and enslave us, has worked in the past!!   

 

WHN, great farewell to PJ!!     

[umbertino]

Given the unintended consequences of those little efforts, I wish they'd at least wait until AFTER the big / good shows... everything good is gone before noon on the first day... How annoying on your day off to have to get up that early to now go stand in the really really  long first  door-opening line..... Its kind of cute though to see the little enterprising kids with their little wagons.... For 3.00 they'll haul all your stuff to the car for ya. Course that's 3.00 a trip.... How those little buggars are able to transport a metro center full of so many endless pallets worth of material so quickly, is beyond me. I'm guessing back fire was not part of initial plan....

I know it's kind of a "my bad" way to think, but I decided if I ever bought a manufacturing plant, the first ad money I'd spend would be to take out full page ads about a ban..... and then sit back and watch the stuff fly off the shelves...

Course if there really was a will.... a desire to stop violence.... ban efforts are unquestionably targeting the wrong thing. That's like banning cars because drunk drivers kill people with them.....

Grazie Rayzur.. I always find your posts intelligent and very interesting......

 

About the last paragraph you wrote and the comparison weapons-cars....I'd humbly add that  weapons ( firearms, etc.) are made specifically to kill ( unlike cars)...Ciao my Friend

[Rayzur]

Grazie Rayzur.. I always find your posts intelligent and very interesting......

 

About the last paragraph you wrote and the comparison weapons-cars....I'd humbly add that  weapons ( firearms, etc.) are made specifically to kill ( unlike cars)...Ciao my Friend

 

Ciao Umbert!!! LTNS how ya doin bro.. Ya know I got nothin but love for ya and with sibs, aunts, uncles and cousins in Italy I think I get the sentiment of what you're saying... I could debate the nuance of the point you're making, however to do so would only further distance us from the point I was actually making by comparison....

I don't think here in the US there is an effort to ban guns by way of taking issue with the (believed) purpose for which they were made.... For example specific to the S/H incident, no one said, we should ban guns because they were made to kill. Instead efforts to ban them emerged from the belief that doing so would eliminate the consequence of using them....

Therein, in both cases of my comparative example, people focused upon the consequence, would be making efforts to ban the instrument leading to that consequence, without dealing with the root cause or human factors, without which,  there would not have been said consequence.... 

Both can and have been instruments of death as result of inappropriate use. Targeting the consequence of death resulting from alcohol mixed with driving was not solved by banning alcohol or cars. Targeting the consequence of death resulting from guns mixed with autistic kids brains hardwired to violent video games, will not be solved by banning guns. 

  And carrying it out further... there have been vehicle related deaths not involving alcohol... there have been gun related deaths not involving video hardwired autistic kids.... In both cases death was caused by careless, negligent, accidental or other human attribute. In both cases they have been purposefully used to kill. In both cases, we call that murder and deal with it (or manslaughter, or negligent homicide, or aggravated assault and so forth). And in both cases, banning the instrument of death absent focus on the underlying factors of human interaction, will not eliminate human violence against other humans. 

 

Ya want to stop gun related violence perpetuated by young autistic spectrum guys.... Then start looking at the video games hardwiring an otherwise socially disconnected kid, who is playing them daily for hours... ,

[Jim1cor13]

Thanks Rayzur. indeed, I never thought some of those games were harmless,

because they have a tendency to affect many kids who often do not realize

it. Some of the games are so violent, I would imagine they devalue the targets

which translates to devaluing lfe in general, and it can seem "ok" for those

kids affected to think it is 'normal' behavior.

 

Some kids seem to be able to realize it is just a game, but even then, there is

potential that it begins to change their perception regarding interaction with other

people, etc.

 

Good points made, thank you. The human element is always the weakest part,

as we are easily influenced by many things, especially young minds such as kids

and those who begin to see these virtual games as 'real life'.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Jim1cor13

[SinjinWolf]

Ciao Umbert!!! LTNS how ya doin bro.. Ya know I got nothin but love for ya and with sibs, aunts, uncles and cousins in Italy I think I get the sentiment of what you're saying... I could debate the nuance of the point you're making, however to do so would only further distance us from the point I was actually making by comparison....

I don't think here in the US there is an effort to ban guns by way of taking issue with the (believed) purpose for which they were made.... For example specific to the S/H incident, no one said, we should ban guns because they were made to kill. Instead efforts to ban them emerged from the belief that doing so would eliminate the consequence of using them....

Therein, in both cases of my comparative example, people focused upon the consequence, would be making efforts to ban the instrument leading to that consequence, without dealing with the root cause or human factors, without which,  there would not have been said consequence.... 

Both can and have been instruments of death as result of inappropriate use. Targeting the consequence of death resulting from alcohol mixed with driving was not solved by banning alcohol or cars. Targeting the consequence of death resulting from guns mixed with autistic kids brains hardwired to violent video games, will not be solved by banning guns. 

  And carrying it out further... there have been vehicle related deaths not involving alcohol... there have been gun related deaths not involving video hardwired autistic kids.... In both cases death was caused by careless, negligent, accidental or other human attribute. In both cases they have been purposefully used to kill. In both cases, we call that murder and deal with it (or manslaughter, or negligent homicide, or aggravated assault and so forth). And in both cases, banning the instrument of death absent focus on the underlying factors of human interaction, will not eliminate human violence against other humans. 

 

Ya want to stop gun related violence perpetuated by young autistic spectrum guys.... Then start looking at the video games hardwiring an otherwise socially disconnected kid, who is playing them daily for hours... ,

 

Razur, there are only a few people whose opinions I semi-regularly scan on this forum; yours is one of them. And I rarely comment/respond to posts. But as a father of child on the autistic spectrum, it'd be a dishonor to my son if I didn't respond this time. To profile these children as mass murderers is an unfortunate and dangerous assertion. It's like saying that black males could never be effective fighter pilots because they have less evolved brains.

 

Anyone who thinks or believes that an autistic spectrum person is psychotic, a sociopath, or prone to becoming a mass murder is simply ignorant at best or maliciously prejudice at worst. With about 1 in 86 kids being diagnosed along the autistic spectrum these days, there should be gun-wielding children/youth taking out their classmates in schools across the country every day according to your theory.

 

And to make another point, there are millions of people in the United States who play Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, Halo, etc who don't go around shooting people in real life. I'm not saying these games are wholesome, but I've enjoyed Call of Duty from time to time, and guess what? I don't own a gun nor do I want one in the house (and I'm a Republican who supports the NRA).

 

I'm also not suggesting that I have the answer(s). But one thing I know for sure is this: To paint a red target on autistic-spectrum boys is completely out of line and grossly irresponsible. And when people attack my son and other children like him, I'll call them out every single time.

 

I realize this isn't a professional forum filled with experts in the child development field, and that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion regardless of whether it is informed, but there are times when dangerous statements are made, and I believe your statement is one of them because there's bound to be someone who reads it and believes "OMG, autistic kids are killers!"

 

Mental illness is mental illness, whether you're a kid who takes a gun to school and does the unthinkable or a mother who drowns her kids in the bath tub because the voices in her head told her to.

 

I don't know you, Razur, and I certainly mean no disrespect. Nor is it my intention to pick a fight with anyone. But as a dad who has first hand experience with these precious children, I won't let these comments pass unaddressed when I see them.

 

Peace.

[DinarCash]

With respect Rayzur, I too follow your post so no pun intended here.  But a women of your stature on this site is looked up by all, and is respected highly.  But I have to agree with SinjinWolf, and he stated it very well.  I too know parents with children who have this challenge.  It is unfair to say or insinuate that these precious children are a threat to society. (Not your words directly, but surely can be interpret as such) 

 

I too play video games with my grandson, Halo to be exact, but he knows that this is a game of defense/protecting your fellow man during danger, lessons can be learned if it's presented with the proper understanding and education of the game.   

[Rayzur]

Thanks guys for so tactfully pointing out how my words could be taken and  misconstrued to mean something I clearly did not intend. To be clear Autistic Spectrum kids are not killers. One is not more prone to be a killer because of an Autistic Spectrum Disorder. No direct correlation between the two has ever been noted or shown otherwise....And I would sincerely regret anyone walking away with that misunderstanding based upon something I said. 

 

Anyone who's  read my posts on this specific issue, knows I am adamantly opposed to using any mental health criterion as as an index for approving gun ownership. Those two things need to remain completely separate and I would oppose any effort to open that door. The only predictive variable with any merit in determining a future event, is past behavior. 

 

That said, anytime a mass casualty event occurs,  those with the recognized professional expertise to do, try to figure out what if any patterns emerge. Maybe there is hope for prevention, maybe its an attempt to at least understand, so as to perhaps mitigate what if anything emerges. In the past one of the consistent factors emerging was that of bullying. The kids all had that to some degree in their background (10-15 years ago).... My comment which unfortunately could be misunderstood completely, focused upon the most recent subset of kids who happen to fall along the Autistic Spectrum Disorder continuum, ( generally toward Aspergers) AND who have spent hours playing violent video games day in day out for 3-4 hours AND who did so from approximately age 10-12 into their Teens, AND who did so alone (without an adult giving context and/or other kids), AND who evidenced a troubled relationship with their parents.

 

Somewhere in a much  earlier thread, I detailed the science behind this pattern. Basic to it was the notion that given our brains do not fully develop until age 25, hard wiring ANY kids brain with simulations consistent with those now used commonplace with the US Army, will likely lead to an increase in these incidents. The recent patterns most recently emerging  suggest that kids with ASD/Aspergers IF exposed to ALL of the above variables, may be more at risk. And in any case, specific to these recent kids, there was way more going on besides the mere ownership of guns. However, no one should read that to mean it was ever stated that ASD kids kill because they are ASD kids. There is no truth in that.... And I would ask anyone reading this to be clear about that..... Don't walk away thinking there is some relationship that does not in fact exist.....

 

I guess I would also clarify that a person with Autism (ASD)  is not a person who is  considered to be  psychotic, personality disordered (sociopath) or even neurotic because they have been diagnosed with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder... And further, there is also no known causal relationship between any of those disorders and violence resulting in murder because someone has one of those mental illnesses... the one exception being Anti-Social PD (psychopath) . . 

 

 

In addressing some of the other comments in general, it might  be helpful to note that an adult brain is very different from a kid's brain in terms of where it is developmentally. By the time you're 25, your frontal lobes are pretty much physically developed and wired. To say you play war games without effect as an adult would make sense. You've likely developed a whole host of neurologically / physically connected brain matter that gives you the ability to accurately sort what you are doing. It's not as likely that you would hard wire your brain differently at that point. Quite the opposite is true for a kid. They might look act and respond like little adults, but their brains are not fully formed until they about 25 years old. I honestly don't care if adults play, or their kids play or whatever else anyone does regarding these games... everyone is free to choose.... (not to mention I get how hard it is to control playing them with teenage kids...). From my perspective, I would just suggest you are there with your kids, especially in their early teens in giving context to what they are doing... at least talk about it, draw distinctions, give adult input into the process of  their integration of what they are doing...(kind of like what you were saying DinarCash)  and limiting the hours that such that its not their sole activity,.... balance it with other stuff...Get em outside running about or some physical activity to balance the brain activity... 

 

I think any kid exposed to the variables listed above when combined together (not just one or a few, but combined)  is at risk. I expect we will see an increase of this violence in kids. The research on that alone goes back to the 1950s. This is not new news. There may be an continuing emergent pattern suggesting some kids when exposed to those combined variables are at greater risk than others, but its only a matter of degrees if so, and at best. And that may have been an atypical pattern cluster and we may not see it emerge again, As our society evolves, so does the possibility for new patterns to emerge. And none of that  eliminates all kinds of at risk possibilities relative to kids in general. Indeed,  the whole issue of bullying carries far more impact as a pattern up to this point.

 

Thanks again for pointing out that the way wrote my reply, could have led to the mistaken assumption I was saying something I was not.... Hopefully, I've clarified it without muddying it even more... Its late, but I didn't want to risk even one more person reading this thread and walking away with mistaken assumptions about a group of kids that is not true. If there are any questions or I have not made it clear, please let me know... I have no problem staying with this until its clarified to the point we all can walk away satisfied we are on the same page I believe we are... . 

 

 

[Yukon Silvermoon]

.......And squirrels shall inherit the Earth.......sneaky little buggers.

GO RV, and NO BV

I think I've finally figured it out. The government staged false flag operations so that 22 would disappear, and they would be free to raise their army of mutant squirrels to enslave America. It's the perfect crime... Edited October 2, 2014 by Yukon Silvermoon

[SinjinWolf]

Razur, thank you for your very well-thought out and gracious reply. I appreciate the compassion behind your response. And after reading your comment, I believe we share a similar position. I also acknowledge how many years it takes for the human brain to fully develop; especially the frontal lobe, which is highly impressionable even throughout adulthood and can be weakened by such things as stress hormones and lack of sleep, for example, compromising one's decisions. 

 

I'm particularly sensitive to this issue for two reasons: 1) Within hours of Sandy Hook (which is really the topic of this thread) news casters were straining to associate asperger's as a trigger as to why the gunman did what he did (if you believe there was a gunman; I myself am still undecided). In fact, the news media very quickly started backing down and went into damage control when they became aware of how utterly ignorant, baseless, insensitive and dangerous their on-air comments really were.

 

2) I'm realizing that very few people even have a rudimentary understanding of autism and aspergers.

 

Many of these people become quite self-righteous in their interaction with me as a parent, chalking up my child's sometimes challenging behavior to a bratty, spoiled, disrespectful kid; some of these people are in my family - they approach this from a purely behavioral perspective; they don't get it, and what's worse, I'm not sure that they care enough to try to educate themselves on the matter. Its not my job to educate them. I mean, you can lead a horse to water but...   

 

So the role my wife and I have taken with our son is to be his biggest supporters, to believe in him no matter what, and to be his protector and advocate no matter what. I'll guard and protect him against anyone or any power - I don't care if its his grandparents, educators, or the government; matters not to me. However, while all of that is true regarding my role, I'm also making sure that he receives speech therapy, occupational therapy, and behavior therapy every week so he can use and direct his mind to understand this world and enjoy life, and make a valuable contribution to society in a way that fulfills his unique gifts.

 

I take full responsibility for my son, 100%. Which means I won't let him be exposed to influences that could potentially damage his mind and brain because I know he filters the world in a very different way than me. He won't be playing violent video games. And he won't be left to run with kids who do. You can know right now that I will always be very involved in his life - I will know about every family and kid he wants to befriend. And if their standards and values differ in a way that will be detrimental in any way to my son, then we will find healthier options.

 

I guess I'm rambling on at this point in the effort to support your comments, and also to support any parent on the forum who is in a similar situation as me.

 

When this thing RVs, it would be a pleasure becoming better acquainted.

[nstoolman1]

Where are the lawsuits? Columbine had numerous ones.