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Poll: Give the Scottish Independence Referendum the Middle East Expert Treatment?

TBomb

By TBomb,
in Politics, 2nd Amendment (Gun Control)

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Scottish Referendum - What are your thoughts?  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel America should lend support in advancing the Scottish Independence Referendum?

    • Absolutely!
      5
    • I don't really care either way.
      2
    • It's none of our business.
      6

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TBomb Newbie

TBomb

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12 Sep 2014
We Give the Scottish Independence Referendum the Middle East Expert Treatment
 
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These days, everyone is talking about the Scottish Independence Referendum, especially when they’re not talking about ISIS. But sadly nobody has managed so far to explain this complicated topic in an easy to understand manner. So we commissioned a panel of Western Middle East experts and asked them to apply their unique approach to the subject with their customary disregard for cumbersome nuance and the stifling requirements of accuracy. The result is this fascinating article.

On Thursday the 18th of September, Scottish voters will be asked to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence from the United Kingdom. The question they must answer is "Should Scotland be an independent country?" They must answer either ‘Yes’ or a ‘No’, in accordance with one of the central tenets of Western culture known as ‘binary oppositions’. This handy guide will give you all the information you need to know about the referendum and what’s it likely to mean for you. (Not much really, aside from maybe needing to get an extra visa.)
 


Scotland is a small, oil and gas-rich nation bordered by England to the south. That’s an important word, there oil, need we say more? The Scots are a proud and noble people, unlike their English neighbours who are noble but self-effacing. Scotland is a tribal society divided into clans, such as the Mackenzei clan, the Maclean clan, and the McDonalds who invented hamburgers. Most Scots consider their clans to be an important part of their lives, and clan chiefs wield significant influence amongst the population.
640px-Scottish_clan_map.png Map of Scottish clans. Like that explains anything, but we do that
with the Middle East all the time.
The Scottish are divided into ‘Protestants’ and ‘Catholics’, which are denominations of the local Christian religion. The fierce rivalry, there are no non-fierce rivalries in Scotland, has plagued Scottish society for decades, with zealots often accusing the other group of being heretic. This rivalry for long manifested itself through the competition between the two main football clubs, the Protestant Rangers and the Catholic Celtic, until Rangers were hilariously relegated to the third division in 2012 as a result of financial troubles. 

The sectarian dimension relates to the independence question in a very complicated way, so for the purpose of journalistic expediency it’s not inaccurate to say that Protestants favour the union while Catholics prefer independence. Or the other way around. 

The English and the Scottish had a long-running rivalry throughout history, which partially explains the current animosity. The two nations often went to war against each other, but the rivalry came to an end with the Acts of Union 1707. (So called because it was signed at seven minutes past five in the afternoon.) Despite being part of the United Kingdom for hundreds of years, many Scots never felt comfortable and always wanted to seek independence so that they can enjoy their simple way of life in the mountains, drinking whisky and eating the local delicacy known as ‘fried Mars bars’. 

The English however are intent on depriving the Scots from achieving this goal, not least because it would mean re-designing the flag and changing all the letterheads. (The English are pragmatic down-to-earth people, but they are notorious for their aversion to change, particularly when stationery is involved.) The English would also like to keep their hands on Scottish oil and gas reserves, because clearly as Middle East experts we feel obliged to stress the importance of oil regardless of context. 

It’s hard to understand the role that post-industrialisation and the collapse of traditional political affiliations have played in the rise of the current form of the Scottish secession impulse so we’re not going to try to. It’s much easier to talk about unicorny things like the emerging European identity and its frameworks for supporting indigenous cultures. That’s the type of think-tanky thing that gets you funding and grants, so let’s emphasise this angle of the Scottish independence question. We should also mention vaguely relevant things like Catalonia because it would make it easier to avoid the real complex questions around Scottish independence. 

Finally, and drawing from our collective experience as Middle Experts, we must stress that the US should not and must not continue its policy of non-intervention in the Scottish independence question. We must do something. Things must be done. There is a necessity for the doing of things. It’s also the point at which we normally ask the requisite rhetorical question near the end of the end: should we allow Scotland to exist as a small oil-rich country? (Like, do we need another Qatar now?) President Obama must avoid this by arming the Protestants. Or the Catholics. 
- See more at: http://www.karlremarks.com/2014/09/we-give-scottish-independence.html#sthash.PFpsNHUn.VPbD8oH3.dpuf

 

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sxsess Newbie

sxsess

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Where's Scotland?   :shrug: 

 

GO RV, and NO BV

Ha funny Shabs. I'm actually going to Aberdeen Saturday for a weeks stay on business. It will be interesting to talk to the people there to hear there views. From past experiences there, the Scots I've worked with in the past have a big problem with being under the rule of England. By that, what I mean is that Scotland votes for what England chooses for them. If I were Scottish I would definitely vote for independence. Especially with the way England has squandered everything it has touched since Thatcher left office.

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TBomb Newbie

TBomb

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I'M WITH YOU SXSESS! MY HUSBAND'S FAMILY BELONG TO THE MORRISON CLAN (THEY'RE GILMOURE'S) - HE IS AUSTRALIAN BY BIRTH, BUT IS VERY INTERESTED IN THIS OUTCOME.  I'VE NO DOUBT THAT ENGLAND IS GOING TO FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL TO KEEP THEIR GDP UP AND IN SO DOING, THE VALUE OF THEIR POUND. WE'LL SEE. 

 

U.K. NEWS Polls in Scotland on Independence Too Close to Call Number of Undecided Voters Makes Outcome of Vote Hard to Predict
 
 
By 
CHARLES FORELLE
CONNECT
Sept. 12, 2014 9:25 a.m. ET
 
 
The big guns of British politics have been wheeled out over the past few days to campaign for votes in Scotland's referendum on independence. Recent polls suggest the vote on whether Scotland will leave the United Kingdom is too close to call. Photo: Getty
LONDON—A series of tight polls ahead of an independence referendum next week suggests Scots might well make a momentous decision to secede from the United Kingdom.
That reflects a surge of pro-independence fervor in the past several weeks. But aggregations of recent survey data still give the "no" camp, which favors remaining in the U.K., a modest lead, and enough voters are undecided—and divining their intentions is sufficiently difficult—that the outcome of the ballot is too close to call.
Recent polls on average have given the "no" side a lead of about 4 percentage points. The latest poll, a telephone survey released Friday, has "no" ahead by two percentage points, with 17% undecided.
Though that lead is small—it has been relatively consistent: only one poll by a major survey firm has ever had the "yes" side ahead. British bookies, for their part, reckon about a 25% chance of a "yes" vote.
Polling companies, mostly using panels of online-survey participants, have been peppering out polls for more than a year. Until this month, they showed the "no" side consistently and comfortably on top. Then, last week, two major polling outfits estimated the race was neck-and-neck: one, TNS BMRB, had "no" one point ahead; the other, YouGov, had "yes" two points up.
"It's convergence on 'it's close,'" says John Curtice, a professor at the University of Strathclyde and an expert on electoral surveys.
OG-AC554_Scotpo_G_20140912091025.jpg
 
So keen are pollsters that YouGov this week asked 2,099 British adults what effect the news that Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge are expecting a second childwould have on the referendum. (Ninety-two percent of respondents, sensibly, said no effect or that they didn't know.)
"It's incredibly unpredictable now," says Alastair Graham, associate director of TNS. Newfound support for independence among women and, especially, young voters has helped the "yes" campaign make up ground. But, Mr. Graham says, recently "there seemed to be a move to 'yes' among most groups." The exception is old and rich voters. They have long disliked the idea of independence from the U.K.
But polling a referendum is hard, and this one especially so. There are no historical data from which pollsters can build models to predict who actually shows up to vote. Scotland has lowered the voting age from 18 to 16, adding a cohort to the electorate about which little is known. And then there are the undecided voters: the polling companies disagree widely on how many there even are.
 
 
If Scotland votes for independence, just what will it be splitting from? Find out in this short animation.
TNS's most recent poll, conducted at the end of August and beginning of September, found 23% of those surveyed were undecided, though 84% said they were certain they'd vote. "There is a huge chunk of the population that hasn't made up their minds," says Mr. Graham. TNS does interviews in person; companies that poll online show fewer undecideds but also project very high turnout.
Polls aim to pick a sample of people representative of actual voters. That is difficult to do, so pollsters typically weight their samples—many Scottish samples, for instance, don't have enough young voters, poor voters or men, so pollsters multiply numbers from those categories to fit their proportion of the voting population.
In theory, those adjustments should make polls more accurate. But if, say, the young voters who are polled aren't representative of all youngsters, the adjustment becomes a distortion.
OG-AC557_scotla_G_20140911173644.jpg
 
 
Prof. Curtice says the groups typically underrepresented in the Scottish polls tend to lean to "yes." Because of weightings, that doesn't mean the surveys are necessarily underestimating "yes" voters, but rather that their "yes" numbers might be volatile.
Another potential unknown, he says, are nonvoters: People who didn't vote in the 2011 Scottish parliament election are underrepresented in the surveys—but they may well show up for the much more consequential referendum on Sept. 18.
Indeed, estimating turnout is a headache. For regular elections, says Mark Diffley of Ipsos MORI in Edinburgh, pollsters can look to past polls and ballots to see what proportion of those who say they're likely to vote actually do. Not so now. "It's a unique event for which we haven't got a whole load of experience of measuring behavior."
An independence referendum in Quebec in 1995 had turnout over 90%—well above rates in the federal or provincial elections; the 2011 Scottish parliament elections drew 51%.
BN-EN069_scotpo_F_20140912072553.jpg
Cupcakes showing "yes," "no" and "undecided" are displayed in Cuckoo's Bakery on Thursday in Edinburgh, Scotland. Getty Images
And then there are the young. Several surveys have showed a shift to "yes" among voters between 16 and 24, although small sample sizes make reliable estimates hard: A Survation poll published Wednesday, surprisingly, showed the "no" side ahead 51-32, with the rest undecided, among that cohort. But the poll only surveyed 57 young people, making the margin of sampling error around plus or minus 13 percentage points.
The inclusion of 16- and 17-year-olds is another quirk. Pro-independence Scottish leaders had pushed to give them a vote, but University of Edinburgh researchers surveyed them in April and May and found they were "less likely than the average adult to vote for independence," says Jan Eichhorn, one of the researchers. He says they are less likely to emphasize their Scottishness over their Britishness than even their slightly older peers.
Prof. Eichhorn, a close poll watcher, is on pins and needles. "Nothing would surprise me between about 45% for 'yes' and 55% for 'yes,'" he says.
—Jason Douglas contributed to this article.
Write to Charles Forelle at charles.forelle@wsj.com
 
 
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TBomb Newbie

TBomb

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09/14/2014 20:10

  Sterling fell amid concerns the independence of Scotland
121636.jpg
 Follow-up - and babysit - Sterling fell to its lowest level in 10 months, because of doubts about the future of Scotland's independence from Britain.

 

The total decline in the value of sterling 1 percent in Asian trading on Monday morning, to hit 1.6165 pound USD, also fell 1 percent against the euro also scored 1.2527 euros.

 

The decline came after a poll showed that the site YouGov YouGov that supporters of "independent Scotland" have made little progress on the referendum, for the first time.

 

A week ago, the trading price of sterling against the dollar to $ 1.66.

 

Voters will head to the polls Thursday, September 18th / September, and will be asked to choose "yes or no" answer to a question: "Do I need to take Scotland?"

 

According to the survey results, published by the Sunday Times newspaper, 51 percent voted in favor of independence for Scotland, while refusing to 49 percent.

The uncertainty surrounding the arrangements for the currency to be taken by an independent Scotland, in the light of modern politicians in Westminster about the possibility of formation of a currency union official.

 

Scotland could use the pound sterling on an informal basis without the control of the policy, and can do this with any other currency.

 

Barclays said in a research note: "vote for independence represents only the first chapter."

He added: "There will be a state of uncertainty on issues ranging from schedules for the independence of the political, economic, and institutional frameworks resulting from this, as well as the division of assets and liabilities, and the financial impact and policies, as well as currency options, which will be available for Scotland."

 

Said Robert Beeston, editor economist at the BBC: "Whenever doubts remained, the United Kingdom over the long term will suffer from the high cost of finance, and economic growth will be affected strongly on both sides of the border."

 

X, Y

http://alrayy.com/121636.htm

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Maggie123 Newbie

Maggie123

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Seriously Maggie???? People are starving but lets make sure the castles are heated...wow..sigh.

 

Yep... just read that here a couple of days ago... I believe it was Umberto who posted it.

The Queen was turned down... because... "that money is for the poor people"... imagine that!!!

 

The article also went into how the Prince's are paid from that funding too...

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TBomb Newbie

TBomb

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Many Questions Arise From Scottish Independence Vote

By THE NEW YORK TIMES

SEPT. 15, 2014
 

Voters in Scotland will decide on Thursday whether to continue a 307-year partnership with England or declare independence from the United Kingdom. How did a seemingly fruitful union, more than three centuries strong, reach the breaking point? Here’s a look at the referendum and the issues at stake.

What exactly will voters consider?

The Scottish independence referendum will ask simply, “Should Scotland be an independent country?”

The language, approved in a deal in 2012, requires voters to cast a yes or no ballot, and the two campaigns have organized themselves on either side of the essential question.

The “yes” campaign is led by Alex Salmond, whose Scottish National Party won a surprising victory in the Scottish Parliament in 2011. His efforts are fueled by Scottish pride, nostalgia and a distaste for the center-right government in London led by Prime Minister David Cameron, a Conservative. Scots have traditionally been more left-leaning than their English neighbors.

The Better Together camp that advocates a “no” vote encourages Scots to remain part of Britain to preserve a cultural, political and economic partnership that its supporters promise would grow stronger. The “no” supporters had maintained a notable lead in the public opinion polls until recent weeks. But as the Sept. 18 referendum approaches, polls show the contest is tightening, prompting politicians to offer alternatives to independence-minded Scots, should they choose to remain part of Britain.

Continue reading the main storyVideo

14SCOTLAND-VIDEO-videoSixteenByNine540-v
PLAY VIDEO|3:42 Bracing for Scotland’s Referendum

Bracing for Scotland’s Referendum

As Scotland prepares for its referendum on independence, many English and Scots that live in border towns feel an acute uncertainty that could remain no matter which way the vote goes.

 Video CreditBy Erik Olsen on Publish DateSeptember 13, 2014. Image CreditAndrew Testa for The New York Times

What is at stake?

The referendum may appear to be a question of national identity, but economic issues dominate the debate: What currency will Scotland use? How will revenue from North Sea oil reserves be divided? Who will shoulder the burden of outstanding public debts?

If Scotland votes “yes,” it will take 18 months for independence to come to fruition. There is likely to be continued negotiation over a number of money matters.

Business leaders and economists worry that an independent Scotland will not be able to prosper alone: its economy relies on revenue from North Sea oil, which has been falling sharply, and its per capita government spending is higherthan the rest of Britain. Though Mr. Salmond has said that Scotland would continue to use the British pound as its currency, his opponents in England say that is unacceptable. And the president of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, has said it would be “extremely difficult, if not impossible” for Scotland to join the European Union.

Business leaders are taking the prospect of dissolution seriously, and the uncertainty has hurt the British pound on currency markets in recent weeks. In fact, some businesses have already signaled their intention of abandoning Scotland should voters choose independence. Major financial institutions such as the Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group, and the insurance giant Standard Life, have indicated they would move their registered offices from Scotland and incorporate in England. Though many jobs will stay in Scotland, some observers worry that unemployment in Scotland will rise and tax revenue could be lost.

Scotland administers many of its own affairs since a 1997 referendum on devolution of powers from London, including health and education services, the justice system, its housing policy and some taxation powers. But there are worries that a truly independent Scotland would fall short, and its exit could hurt Britain’s competitiveness and undermine its continued partnership in the European Union.

Who can vote?

In a compromise struck between Mr. Cameron and Mr. Salmond, the referendum will be open to voters as young as 16, even though the national voting age is 18. But to cast a ballot, one must be a resident of Scotland. Those who live outside of Scotland — Scottish citizen or not — won’t have a say. That hasn’t kept expatriate Scots or interested Britons from supporting independence or encouraging a continued union. The actors Sean Connery, Brian Cox and Alan Cumming support independence. Rock stars like Mick Jagger, Sting and David Bowie, along with J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter books, and the former soccer star David Beckham are among those who are calling for Britain to stay together.

Queen Elizabeth II, as she is on all matters of politics, is neutral. However, as she was leaving church on Sunday near Balmoral, her Scottish estate, she encouraged voters to“think very carefully about the future” before they cast their ballots on Thursday. Her remarks were embraced by the “no” camp as potentially helpful to its cause.

Will the queen have to give up Balmoral if Scots vote for independence?

No, the queen will not be evicted from her summer retreat, nor will she give up Holyrood Palace in Edinburgh, the official royal residence in Scotland. And the queen will remain the head of state of an independent Scotland, like she is head of state of Canada, Australia and New Zealand, other independent countries once part of her realm. But in the future, Scottish voters could elect parties to their independent Parliament that would make Scotland a republic, forsaking the monarchy.

Scotland and England have been united under a single monarchy since the Scottish king, James VI, inherited the English throne from Queen Elizabeth in 1603. More than 100 years later, under the Act of Union of 1707, the two countries voluntarily entered a political union when their Parliaments merged, though Scotland kept control of some of its own affairs and still maintains its own legal and educational systems.

Who will govern Scotland?

Continue reading the main storyVideo

Brexit-videoSixteenByNine540-v4.jpg
PLAY VIDEO|1:44 Scotland’s Debate: Stay Big or Go Small

Scotland’s Debate: Stay Big or Go Small

On Sept. 18, Scotland is scheduled to vote on seceding from Britain. We take a look at the issues at stake for the Scottish people.

 Video CreditBy Carrie Halperin on Publish DateAugust 6, 2014. Image CreditAndy Rain/European Pressphoto Agency

Scotland, which had its own Parliament from the 13th century until the Act of Union in 1707, had been working toward establishing greater autonomy as recently as 1997. The Scotland Act of 1998 transferred some powers previously held in London back to Scotland, where a Parliament and provincial government have administered devolved matters.

There are 128 members of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish National Party holds 65 seats after its victory in elections in 2011. This body is expected to take up the governing of an independent Scotland.

What would a new Britain look like without Scotland?

When Billy Bragg’s “Take Down the Union Jack” climbed up the British music charts in 2002, the year Queen Elizabeth II was celebrating 50 years on the throne, few would have thought that it could become a legitimate call.

But days before the independence referendum, Mr. Bragg’s lyrics sound less preposterous:

“Britain isn’t cool, you know, it’s really not that great. It’s not a proper country, it doesn’t even have a patron saint.”

Certainly, if Scots vote to secede on Thursday, Great Britain will be less great: it will lose 5.3 million residents, more than 8 percent of its population.

So what might the kingdom sans Scotland be called? And could the Union Jack — a flag that combines the colors of the three patron saints of England, Scotland and Ireland — come down at last as demanded by Mr. Bragg, who is English but a staunch supporter of Scottish independence?

The Flag Institute, a charity, has received many proposed redesigns, with some suggesting that a red Welsh dragon be superimposed. Welsh people think this is a great idea. But there are only three million of them and their 53 million English counterparts may object.

A more subtle approach would combine the black-and-yellow flag of the Welsh patron saint, David, with those of England’s St. George and Ireland’s St. Patrick. But if the white-on-blue saltire of Scotland’s St. Andrew is excluded, should the red-on-white saltire of St. Patrick remain nearly a century after Irish Independence — particularly given the resentment it inspires among Ulster unionists?

The most straightforward idea, replacing the flag’s current blue background with a black one, has a catch, too: “That used to be a fascist flag in the U.K.,” said Graham Bartram, the Flag Institute’s chief vexillologist (vexillology is the study of flags). “It would be like all those sci-fi movies coming true. I can just see all the soldiers marching in their black uniforms saluting a black flag.”

Helpfully, the College of Arms, the official register for coats of arms, has said that the flag would not technically have to be changed if the queen remained the head of state of an independent Scotland.

What would the United Kingdom be called?

If the flag is a contentious issue, so is the nomenclature of what the British government has awkwardly named the “continuing United Kingdom.” The Scottish government prefers to call it the “rest of the United Kingdom,” or rUK.

Whatever the official name — like the flag, most people bet that it will remain the same — there is a danger that in the world’s perception, at least, Great Britain would become Little Britain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/16/world/europe/many-questions-arise-from-scottish-independence-vote.html?_r=0

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Maggie123 Newbie

Maggie123

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyYgDi8z6Bc#t=41

 

Pranksters erect fake border posts between Scotland and England  

 

Published on Sep 17, 2014

 

With Scotland's independence referendum just day away, a group of jokers decided to lighten the tone of the debate by erecting a spoof border post at Carter Bar, the point at which the A68 highway crosses from England into Scotland
Edited by Maggie123
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