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dilema


cranster
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I am weighing whether I should get legal advice or just drop a situation I'm in. My father passed away 3 weeks ago. About 15 years ago he purchased a motorhome for somewhere between $150,000 to $250,000. My understanding is that it's worth about $26,000 today. Here's my dilema, and if I pursue this legally it will cause butthurt.

 

My father purchased the motorhome upon his retirement so he and my mother could travel the country. My mother got sick with alzheimers almost imediately afterward, and they stopped traveling. My father made a statement to me shortly after that. He said, "I'm giving this motorhome to all of you kids. You have to take turns with it, and are responsible for gas, and insurance if you use it." That was the end of that conversation. I've actually never used it. Well the motorhome ended up at one siblings residence, and I've heard that other siblings who tried to use it were given grief by the husband of that sibling. One sister was facing the prospect of being homeless with 2 daughters, and asked to live in it for a couple weeks until she could get living arangements sorted out, but was told that this brother inlaw had a prior engagement to take his parents, and family on a mothers day trip, and she would have to make other accomodations.

 

 After my father's death the executor was reading some documents from my fathers lock box, and read one document, then stopped himself because he said it was private. What he read was that my father had transfered the title of the motorhome solely into my brother inlaws name, not even my sisters name was included on the title. His name was secretely placed on the title without notice to all of the siblings after it was given as a gift to eight of us siblings. I haven't spoken to the sister who has it yet, and will do so saturday when assets are split between siblings. She has already been approached about the issue, and is ok with it and feels entitled to this major asset that was given to the whole family because according to her it was my fathers "wish that they have it".

 

Apparently this brother inlaw had quite a penchant for dropping by to have coffee with my father and then walked away with expensive cr*p afterward, like a snow blower, a whole garage full of tools including table saws and other major power tools. It looks like my father also bought him a boat, but I have no claim on any of that because my father didn't gift any of that to me, but the motorhome was given to the entire family before the title was transfered into the highly favored brother in laws name. I'm not sure if this is even actionable since the title is in his name. My sister's attitude was that it was my "fathers desire that just she, and her family have it," but my father never told any of the rest of us that he was taking the motorhome back, and giving it to just one siblings husband, and even if he had I'm not sure that he could have legally rescinded the gift once given, and I don't know if the person whose name is on the title owns it, and that's that, and nothing more to talk about. After attorneys fees, and splitting proceeds 8 ways isn't going to leave much, I had already decided to drop it until I heard about her attitude about it. I'm thinking about consulting with an attorney before the meeting saturday.

 

I am inclined to challenge this greedy, shady brother inlaw legally if I have a case on principle alone even if it creates butthurt with my sister, and other siblings.

Edited by cranster
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That's a tough one cranster.....I have seen many families experience irreparable damage over inheritance issues. While some may say "it's only stuff"....it's unfortunate that those in need can not benefit. I hope the best for you and yours.

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That's a tough one cranster.....I have seen many families experience irreparable damage over inheritance issues. While some may say "it's only stuff"....it's unfortunate that those in need can not benefit. I hope the best for you and yours.

And you don't think it will happen in yours until it does. I'm still weighing this, and not set on either direction. I'd already decided to drop it until I heard the little princesses entitled little attitude about it. I had a neighbor who I used to date, and I grew up with whose mother passed away a month before my dad, and her brother immediately filed a suit against her over the will after their mother died.

Edited by cranster
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I'm just talking out loud, and sorting through this. The rest of his estate will be divided evenly, but I had no idea that I was no longer part owner of that motorhome until after he died. In my mind everything should be divided evenly. That's the only way to make it through without resentment, but that's not the way he chose to leave it.

Edited by cranster
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Wow cranster, that is something we all don't look forward to when our parents pass on, especially when a large family is involved. 

 

When it comes to money, materialist items after the death of parents, true colors shows. 

 

Satan moves in this way to cause havoc even more so between families.  Don't let the hurt control you.  Pray on it, you have a few more days before you meet with your siblings and if your still bothered by it, it wouldn't hurt to consult an attorney. 

 

As for me, if I don't get anything from my parents, the memories are far better than a materialist item.  Can't speak for the rest of my family members. 

 

Good Luck and may God guide you with the wisdom that is needed. May he give you the courage and strength to use the words to touch all those involved. May He soften your heart to His love to accept was is to come.    :)  :angel:

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Wow cranster, that is something we all don't look forward to when our parents pass on, especially when a large family is involved. 

 

When it comes to money, materialist items after the death of parents, true colors shows. 

 

Satan moves in this way to cause havoc even more so between families.  Don't let the hurt control you.  Pray on it, you have a few more days before you meet with your siblings and if your still bothered by it, it wouldn't hurt to consult an attorney. 

 

As for me, if I don't get anything from my parents, the memories are far better than a materialist item.  Can't speak for the rest of my family members. 

 

Good Luck and may God guide you with the wisdom that is needed. May he give you the courage and strength to use the words to touch all those involved. May He soften your heart to His love to accept was is to come.    :)  :angel:

Right now I'm just not happy with someone raised under the same roof I was thinking this is ok. It should have been rejected out right when it was offered... When you are offered a $250,000 motorhome in a family with eight siblings you say "I can't accept this because it should belong to every one of us" would have been the appropriate response there, and if you have a husband who is not a sibling of the rest of us place himself in the position to end up the recipient of such a sizeable gift that had already been gifted to someone else, you say, "What were you thinking, you absolutely can not accept this!"  I don't care about the motorhome. I never used it, and I'm not in need of the money. Just working through some anger, and trying to figure out how to broach this with my sister and let her know that I both love her, and this is not ok because you have placed your self in the position of being the recipient of a life time of resentments by some in this family.

Edited by cranster
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Wow cranster, that is something we all don't look forward to when our parents pass on, especially when a large family is involved. 

 

When it comes to money, materialist items after the death of parents, true colors shows. 

 

Satan moves in this way to cause havoc even more so between families.  Don't let the hurt control you.  Pray on it, you have a few more days before you meet with your siblings and if your still bothered by it, it wouldn't hurt to consult an attorney. 

 

As for me, if I don't get anything from my parents, the memories are far better than a materialist item.  Can't speak for the rest of my family members. 

 

Good Luck and may God guide you with the wisdom that is needed. May he give you the courage and strength to use the words to touch all those involved. May He soften your heart to His love to accept was is to come.    :)  :angel:

 I will let this go because there are two things you can't take with you to heaven. Material things, nor resentment. It has to be worked out, and it isn't wrong to be angry, Just can't let it move in and take residence. I'm just trying to figure out how my not necessarily always tactful self can present this tactfully, and honestly. I also don't think it's necessarily wrong to take legal action against a non sibling who ended up with the lions share of my parents estate.

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Its okay to be angry, God understands your dilemma.  I would be too... but its hard to deal with the greed of someone's heart.  Your sister is doing what a wife would do, and that is supporting her husband.  Hopefully she will have the courage to see that this is wrong, and make some changes for the betterment of the family.  

 

You have the right idea to approach this in a tactful honest way, speak with your heart, let her absorb you words of love, and concerns for her well being and the family unit. 

Edited by pattyangel
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I'm just talking out loud, and sorting through this. The rest of his estate will be divided evenly, but I had no idea that I was no longer part owner of that motorhome until after he died. In my mind everything should be divided evenly. That's the only way to make it through without resentment, but that's not the way he chose to leave it.

 

 

My Dad was in a car accident that left him in a coma and he never recovered from. My sister and her new husband moved in and took care of my siblings until I could get out of the Army, then I took over for several years.

 

Things happened that caused a rift in the family that are divisions to this day.

 

As soon as was possible, I moved thousands of miles away from all of them, and didn't bother to communicate with any for over 16 years.

 

When I finally decided to contact them, it took months just to find my Mom.

 

She started crying, thinking I had been dead for years.

 

It's been a few years since reconnecting, and I still want my space, but have to admit, I have missed being able to talk to someone that love me just for me.

 

The only perfect families live on Hollywood reels, the rest of us have to deal with humans, each one with core faults.

 

I would never admit this to my family, but there are times I do wish I had done things differently.

 

It honestly sounds like the sis was forced to make a choice between her old family or new.

 

Be sure to pick your battles wisely.

 

I'll pray for you, it isn't easy.

Edited by divemaster5734
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My Dad was in a car accident that left him in a coma and he never recovered from. My sister and her new husband moved in and took care of my siblings until I could get out of the Army, then I took over for several years.

 

Things happened that caused a rift in the family that are divisions to this day.

 

As soon as was possible, I moved thousands of miles away from all of them, and didn't bother to communicate with any for over 16 years.

 

When I finally decided to contact them, it took months just to find my Mom.

 

She started crying, thinking I had been dead for years.

 

It's been a few years since reconnecting, and I still want my space, but have to admit, I have missed being able to talk to someone that love me just for me.

 

The only perfect families live on Hollywood reels, the rest of us have to deal with humans, each one with core faults.

 

I would never admit this to my family, but there are times I do wish I had done things differently.

 

It honestly sounds like the sis was forced to make a choice between her old family or new.

 

Be sure to pick your battles wisely.

 

I'll pray for you, it isn't easy.

I appreciate your response. The hurt is real, but the decision to forgive and move on is really the only way cleanly forward that I see. I consulted an attorney, and the attorney said he made two agreements. One verbal, and one written, and the written agreement trumps the verbal agreement. This is a matter of processing emotions, and choosing forgiveness instead of resentment. While I was asleep 3 mondays ago his whole life was being judged. He's my father, and I love him regardless of this choice he made, and do not want God to judge him harshly for this, but to give him the forgiveness I am choosing to give him. I'm happy to hear you have/are amending your family relationships. I recognize that I am at that crossroad now, and being 55 with one heart attack under my belt my life could end at any moment as well. So I am choosing to accept this, and forgive my father, sister, and brother in law.

Its okay to be angry, God understands your dilemma.  I would be too... but its hard to deal with the greed of someone's heart.  Your sister is doing what a wife would do, and that is supporting her husband.  Hopefully she will have the courage to see that this is wrong, and make some changes for the betterment of the family.  

 

You have the right idea to approach this in a tactful honest way, speak with your heart, let her absorb you words of love, and concerns for her well being and the family unit. 

It's decided, between now and Saturday I am going to remain in prayer, and ask God for the words, and for the spirit of forgiveness. It just helped getting it out. The next time I see my father it will be in a state of perfection where the only currency is love, and there will be no memory of material things on earth.

Tough situation, cranster.  Was your father of sound mind before his passing....or do you feel he was manipulated by your brother-in-law?  I apologize if I'm being too personal.   :peace: 

 

GO RV, and NO BV

He did this deal in 2006. He just didn't tell anyone. It is what it is now. It's a done deal.

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I had this conversation with my parents just 2 weeks ago. They wanted all the kids to be equal in executor power.

My opinion was HELL no! Pick someone me sis or baby brother to be executor with the final say!

When my grandparents passed the whole damn family started circling like buzzards.

That is crap! Homie will not play that game.

Oddly I agree with flat dawg!

I feel for you Cranster.

Edited by Muleslayer
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I had this conversation with my parents just 2 weeks ago. They wanted all the kids to be equal in executor power.

My opinion was HELL no! Pick someone me sis or baby brother to be executor with the final say!

When my grandparents passed the whole damn family started circling like buzzards.

That is crap! Homie will not play that game.

Oddly I agree with flat dawg!

I feel for you Cranster.

My dad picked someone outside the family to be executor. He's doing alright so far. I'd say one executor, but more importantly equal distribution of property, anything else just shows favoritism, and will set the family up for conflict, and hard feelings which ironically about 6 months before he died he called the family together to talk to us how important it was for him that we all be reconciled to one another, and at peace with one another, and resolve all conflicts because life is short yada yada, but for some strange reason he left his estate in a way to accomplish the opposite. He received a rather large settlement from a law suit about about 15 years ago, and lavished money and things on half of his children, and left out the rest. As an example he bought a vitamix about a 8 months ago, and thought it was the greatest thing so he went out and bought four of his children $500 vitamix's, and left his to one that he already bought one for so now she has two. There are 8 of us. He burned through pretty much all of it by the time he died so there probably isn't going to be anything left to distribute, and the house will pay off medical bills. It's tough growing up in a home where one parents love is unequal. If my mom had still been alive the outcome would have been completely different, and equal. He had a mid 1800's telescope that I thought was the coolest thing, and he said he told me without me asking that he was going to leave it to me when he died, but he actually just gave it to the executor before he died. That is not the way to treat your children.

Edited by cranster
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Sometimes you just have to walk away and do the things you need to do so it does not happen in your own life. My dad had purchased pre-paid life policies in the names of each of his children and he had another with my moms' name but she had passed. It was years later and dad had remarried so he signed a form to change that beneficiary.  Wrong! The form he signed changed the beneficiary on ALL the policies. Nada-zip to the kids.  They had set up joint wills so that all the kids knew what would happen no matter who passed first. Their house, vehicles, mortgage notes they held, savings, stocks were over the course of 5-7 years that followed all transferred to one individual a step-sister. All that was left was a checking and small savings account which had her name on as well.

Never did get an accounting even filed a complaint with the court.  The reason I responded here was because she purchased a new 40 odd foot diesel motor home with "her" money and owned the house etc.

 If you want to keep your sanity, just quietly tell your sister you consider him a 'thief' and although she is always welcome, he is not. You do not have to deal with him. What is past is past, but you do not have to have regular reminders.  As a note, the children of that step sister have burned thru everything over the years and now she rents. It has been 16 years of no contact.with her. Time lessens the anger and quiets the feelings but not the memory of acts. Good luck.

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I am weighing whether I should get legal advice or just drop a situation I'm in. My father passed away 3 weeks ago. About 15 years ago he purchased a motorhome for somewhere between $150,000 to $250,000. My understanding is that it's worth about $26,000 today. Here's my dilema, and if I pursue this legally it will cause butthurt.

 

My father purchased the motorhome upon his retirement so he and my mother could travel the country. My mother got sick with alzheimers almost imediately afterward, and they stopped traveling. My father made a statement to me shortly after that. He said, "I'm giving this motorhome to all of you kids. You have to take turns with it, and are responsible for gas, and insurance if you use it." That was the end of that conversation. I've actually never used it. Well the motorhome ended up at one siblings residence, and I've heard that other siblings who tried to use it were given grief by the husband of that sibling. One sister was facing the prospect of being homeless with 2 daughters, and asked to live in it for a couple weeks until she could get living arangements sorted out, but was told that this brother inlaw had a prior engagement to take his parents, and family on a mothers day trip, and she would have to make other accomodations.

 

 After my father's death the executor was reading some documents from my fathers lock box, and read one document, then stopped himself because he said it was private. What he read was that my father had transfered the title of the motorhome solely into my brother inlaws name, not even my sisters name was included on the title. His name was secretely placed on the title without notice to all of the siblings after it was given as a gift to eight of us siblings. I haven't spoken to the sister who has it yet, and will do so saturday when assets are split between siblings. She has already been approached about the issue, and is ok with it and feels entitled to this major asset that was given to the whole family because according to her it was my fathers "wish that they have it".

 

Apparently this brother inlaw had quite a penchant for dropping by to have coffee with my father and then walked away with expensive cr*p afterward, like a snow blower, a whole garage full of tools including table saws and other major power tools. It looks like my father also bought him a boat, but I have no claim on any of that because my father didn't gift any of that to me, but the motorhome was given to the entire family before the title was transfered into the highly favored brother in laws name. I'm not sure if this is even actionable since the title is in his name. My sister's attitude was that it was my "fathers desire that just she, and her family have it," but my father never told any of the rest of us that he was taking the motorhome back, and giving it to just one siblings husband, and even if he had I'm not sure that he could have legally rescinded the gift once given, and I don't know if the person whose name is on the title owns it, and that's that, and nothing more to talk about. After attorneys fees, and splitting proceeds 8 ways isn't going to leave much, I had already decided to drop it until I heard about her attitude about it. I'm thinking about consulting with an attorney before the meeting saturday.

 

I am inclined to challenge this greedy, shady brother inlaw legally if I have a case on principle alone even if it creates butthurt with my sister, and other siblings.

 

 

 

It sounds like he left a will since there appears to be an executor to handle his estate. As for having given the motor home as a gift that may have been his intent at that time, but appears he changed his mind for whatever reason and signed title over to the brother-in-law. It wasn't gift given unless title was signed over. Until title is transferred property remains with the one holding title.

 

Unless there was some other funny business involved where the brother-in-law and possibly the sister somehow deceived your father into signing over title or unless there is proof he may have signed over to him but made stipulations as to what was to be done with it which they are covering up to keep it from everyone, I doubt you have any case without proof of some wrong doing.

 

Just relying on what he said about wanting all 8 to have it and what he did later by signing title over to one person, is unlikely going to cut it as valid claim.

 

If there is a will or living trust that stipulates everything as to who is to have what then that is what everyone should accept and move on. The will or whatever was your father's doing and no one else. If the will states anything about the motor home then see what it says. If not, then I doubt there is anything that can be done and even if there was and you had to involve attorneys and the court, by the time all the BS legal costs add up there will be nothing left of that $26,000 to go around between 8 people.

 

Have you been given a copy of the will or trust to see what it says? The executor is responsible for administrating the estate in accord with whatever the will or trust stipulates. Whatever that is that is what everyone should accept and adhere to. Just remember that will or trust was made out by your father and no one else. Any feelings about anything that may seem unfair should be directed towards him alone and not towards anyone who may appear to be a favorite where they appear to have gotten more than others. Unless there was some type of funny business that happened that caused your father to be deceived somehow and that would require some pretty solid proof to have a valid claim to pursue anything.

 

Where was the title kept? Did they have access to it where it may be forged to make it appear he actually signed the title over? If they had access to it then check the signature to see if it matches your father's signature.

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I am weighing whether I should get legal advice or just drop a situation I'm in. My father passed away 3 weeks ago. About 15 years ago he purchased a motorhome for somewhere between $150,000 to $250,000. My understanding is that it's worth about $26,000 today. Here's my dilema, and if I pursue this legally it will cause butthurt.

 

My father purchased the motorhome upon his retirement so he and my mother could travel the country. My mother got sick with alzheimers almost imediately afterward, and they stopped traveling. My father made a statement to me shortly after that. He said, "I'm giving this motorhome to all of you kids. You have to take turns with it, and are responsible for gas, and insurance if you use it." That was the end of that conversation. I've actually never used it. Well the motorhome ended up at one siblings residence, and I've heard that other siblings who tried to use it were given grief by the husband of that sibling. One sister was facing the prospect of being homeless with 2 daughters, and asked to live in it for a couple weeks until she could get living arangements sorted out, but was told that this brother inlaw had a prior engagement to take his parents, and family on a mothers day trip, and she would have to make other accomodations.

 

 After my father's death the executor was reading some documents from my fathers lock box, and read one document, then stopped himself because he said it was private. What he read was that my father had transfered the title of the motorhome solely into my brother inlaws name, not even my sisters name was included on the title. His name was secretely placed on the title without notice to all of the siblings after it was given as a gift to eight of us siblings. I haven't spoken to the sister who has it yet, and will do so saturday when assets are split between siblings. She has already been approached about the issue, and is ok with it and feels entitled to this major asset that was given to the whole family because according to her it was my fathers "wish that they have it".

 

Apparently this brother inlaw had quite a penchant for dropping by to have coffee with my father and then walked away with expensive cr*p afterward, like a snow blower, a whole garage full of tools including table saws and other major power tools. It looks like my father also bought him a boat, but I have no claim on any of that because my father didn't gift any of that to me, but the motorhome was given to the entire family before the title was transfered into the highly favored brother in laws name. I'm not sure if this is even actionable since the title is in his name. My sister's attitude was that it was my "fathers desire that just she, and her family have it," but my father never told any of the rest of us that he was taking the motorhome back, and giving it to just one siblings husband, and even if he had I'm not sure that he could have legally rescinded the gift once given, and I don't know if the person whose name is on the title owns it, and that's that, and nothing more to talk about. After attorneys fees, and splitting proceeds 8 ways isn't going to leave much, I had already decided to drop it until I heard about her attitude about it. I'm thinking about consulting with an attorney before the meeting saturday.

 

I am inclined to challenge this greedy, shady brother inlaw legally if I have a case on principle alone even if it creates butthurt with my sister, and other siblings.

 

 

 

Another observation based on everything you said here.

 

It was 15 years ago when he bought this motor home and it was almost immediately afterwards your mom got sick and they stopped using it and then shortly after that is when he said he was giving it to all you kids. So this all took place approx 13 to 14 years ago.

 

Advance 13 to 14 years later your father passes away and you now learn and discover your father supposedly signed the title over to the husband of one sister.

 

You yourself said you never used it in all that time.

 

There was one instance one sister wanted to live in it for a few weeks until she found a place to live which they did not let her because of some alleged plan already made where the other sister and husband were going to be using it to travel in. It is not clear when this particular instance happened.

 

Then it appears some of the other siblings wanted to use at some point in the past but were given grief about it and appears they never used it or tried to use it again after that. How long ago was this when that happened?

 

It appears based on what you said the motor home sat with the one sister and husband at their place all these years and sounds like they were the only one's who used it and took care of it for the past 13 to 14 years?

 

Perhaps the reason your father signed the title over to him was because no one else seemed to be interested in using it all those years and since it appeared this one sister and her husband were the only ones who were using it and taking care of it he decided to just give it to them?

 

And now that he is gone and everyone knows it is worth about $26,000 everyone now feels they are entitled to a fair cut of that even though no one seemed interested in it after 13 to 14 years?

 

What your father may have said 13 to 14 years ago will mean nothing. Simply saying one thing and then at some point in the future changing his mind and doing something else does not create any binding effect on what was said 13 to 14 years ago.

 

Perhaps if all the siblings had been using it all this time and everyone was paying equal shares in any cost of maintaining it for the past 13 to 14 years then that might be a different story where at least there was evidence everyone was given equal share in the motor home. And if everyone was paying for the up keep and maintenance and now find out the title was signed over to just one person all this time where he never disclosed that and kept taking money from them to pay insurance and up keep costs, then they would be entitled at minimum to get refunded their money spent since it would appear they were mislead and deceived.

 

If no one contributed to anything where this one sister and husband basically bared all the burden, responsibility and costs in maintaining it then why would anyone now feel they are entitled to any part of it after having nothing to do with it for the past 13 to 14 years?

 

And if this one sister and husband were the only ones to take care of it all this time and pay all costs in maintaining it all these years they would be entitled to the sweat equity and money paid they put into it which could be a lot more than the actual value of the motor home. For example, if they spent on average of say only 5 hours per week in personal time and labor of keeping it clean and maintained, plus storing it, and they feel their time is worth $25 per hour, they would be entitled to $125 per week over the past 13 to 14 years they had it and took care of it while no one else came around to give any of their time to help with maintaining it nor paying anything to contribute to the costs involved over the past 13 to 14 years.

 

I don't know all the details of all that actually happened here over the past 13 to 14 years, but this is just merely one observation being made based on just what information you provided here.

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