Article 36 of the CBI Law

[Sage449]

ewingm - many people do dumb things and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. I think the same thing about those that jumped into this without checking the kool-aid. I only put up what I could afford to lose and I so agree with Snowglobe - that if I didn't do this and it came to fruition, how would I feel by missing out on a blessing. I'm not expecting to get filthy rich - have not spent more than I could afford to lose or may have wasted on other stupid things. I could have done dope or drunk up what I've spent just as easily as buying the dinar - so I chose the dinar over craps, drinking or blackjack.

I was just curious why you and AdwRd are or seemingly, so angry over why some of us chose to do this - your thread just seemed angry to me because people won't listen and that this is all a farce and nothing good can come of it. Am not meaning to rile or poke the bear - just trying to understand why this thread seemed to fire up some people.

Sorry - couldn't find the original post where there was discussion from you and AdwRd over why people insisted on buying dinar. Apologize - not trying to derail your thread.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Sage449

[jobug38]

I personally bought mine for a chance to break even or come out ahead. Bought mine some time ago and I have made a profit already, not much but its still a profit. I have come to this and other threads in this past and you guys have valid points. Bottoms line is no one knows what the CBI is going to do! So the way I see it , it's wide open to go in any direction. I just like to hope. It's what seperates me from most people, with hope you have faith in the out come no matter what. Its always worked for me. I do take in everything on the up and downside of this. I'm realistic no one knows!

[caz1104]

Sage449,

 

You ask some very valid questions. I've asked many a LOPster many times my self over the last 4 years. Why does it bother them so much what others chose to do with there own money?  Most consistant answers I've got are 1)" save folks from themselves for they are not smart enough". & 2) to expose Gurus/Pumpers for the liars they are.

I can't speak for others but I don't need to be saved. And I already know not take Gurus/Pumpers seriously, same goes for LOPsters. 

[gymrat76541]

I point any interested individuals to the CBI Law at the following link:  http://cbi.iq/documents/CBILAW-EN_f.pdf

 

Please take a look at Article 36 on page 25.  Based on previous currency denominations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redenomination), I would like to know how anyone will be exchanging their Dinars once the LOP occurs.  You cannot go to dealers since they will not be allowed to travel to Iraq with such a large quantity of Dinar notes.  You will not be able to go to Iraq to exchange Dinars yourselves since you will be hindered by travel restrictions in addition to import/export currency limits.  Finally, banks will not exchange them since the IQD is not internationally traded.

You can exchange currency in ANY Middle Eastern country................Kuwait, UAE. Safe as can be!  

[Jaxinjersey]

The ongoing battle in the arena of RVers and LOPsters comes down to ONE thing...  Faith.

 

Regardless of any speculations, interpretations, facts, or "facts" (reasoned interpretation... so must be true)... there is only one winner in this battle.... Faith.

 

You cannot defeat Faith... regardless of what that faith is in.

 

The paramount reason for DinarVets existence is Faith...  "doubters" are amusingly tolerated!

 

RVers win this battle, hands down...  period.   The participation in the "debate" of this is mind-boggling.  There is no debate... because you can't debate Faith.

 

So... say the RV never happens... so what!   So we lost some money!   I say... money well "spent" on a fun journey.  And as of right now... my money's still "buying" me some fun!

 

Faith is fun.  People who have faith, in anything... are generally fun.   And... that's their "right"   You can't take that away!

 

Don't bother disputing my perspective...  I'm enjoying my Faith in this matter... the same as I might as a fan who spent money on season tickets for a bad team!   I still want to see them try to win!

 

You LOPsters have excellent reasoning and common sense skills, no doubt!   But WAY TOO MUCH free time!  You must be "fun" at parties!  Hahahahaha!

[AdwRd]

The ongoing battle in the arena of RVers and LOPsters comes down to ONE thing...  Faith.

 

Regardless of any speculations, interpretations, facts, or "facts" (reasoned interpretation... so must be true)... there is only one winner in this battle.... Faith.

 

You cannot defeat Faith... regardless of what that faith is in.

 

The paramount reason for DinarVets existence is Faith...  "doubters" are amusingly tolerated!

 

RVers win this battle, hands down...  period.   The participation in the "debate" of this is mind-boggling.  There is no debate... because you can't debate Faith.

 

So... say the RV never happens... so what!   So we lost some money!   I say... money well "spent" on a fun journey.  And as of right now... my money's still "buying" me some fun!

 

Faith is fun.  People who have faith, in anything... are generally fun.   And... that's their "right"   You can't take that away!

 

Don't bother disputing my perspective...  I'm enjoying my Faith in this matter... the same as I might as a fan who spent money on season tickets for a bad team!   I still want to see them try to win!

 

You LOPsters have excellent reasoning and common sense skills, no doubt!   But WAY TOO MUCH free time!  You must be "fun" at parties!  Hahahahaha!

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.  Faith is the virus of 'non-thinking'.

Edited May 7, 2014 by AdwRd

[SnowGlobe7]

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.  Faith is the virus of 'non-thinking'.

Read more: http://dinarvets.com/forums/index.php?/topic/177326-article-36-of-the-cbi-law/page-2#ixzz313AHTIuR

 

Oh ye of little faith...

[Sage449]

CAZ1104 - "....I can't speak for others but I don't need to be saved. And I already know not take Gurus/Pumpers seriously, same goes for LOPsters."

Wow - ditto - I don't need to be saved by them - I am quite capable inspite of what others think, of making my own rational, informed decisions. And as for faith - I enjoy having faith in a higher power - Faith is confidence or trust in a person, deity, the doctrines or teachings of a religion, or any specifable belief that is not based on proof. While some have argued that many forms of faith are opposed to reason, proponents of faiths argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence, and that rationality and faith are complimentary aspects of human perceptual and imaginative capacities. The word faith is often used synonymously for hope, trust, belief, or a religious tradition. I happen to choose a higher power (God) for my faith place. And I do feel sorry for those that have none.

And my last question, is why on earth would I take any advice from someone that has no faith, in anything? If a person does not know about things related to real faith, it is not their place to define it, any more than a person who does not know about mathematics should try to teach it.

[ewingm]

Dinarians,  Please don't misunderstand my position on this thing.  I am an individual of great faith.  Faith in things unseen.  Faith in the spiritual realm.  I'm not a hater.  I think you all are a great bunch of people to debate with.  I know what your dreams are on this.  Whether or not you hold dinar is strictly your business.  In my circumstances as a non-holder, I have been immersed in all the koolaide thinking and illogical thinking of people around me whom I care about.  I have already seen damage done.  Now, to you who have wisely said, "invest only what you can afford to lose", I applaude you.  Unfortuneately, thousands have spent way more than they should have, thus denying themselves of instant access to funds if a crisis arose.  I debate because I see this as a looming disaster for you folks.  I don't expect you to agree, but in honest open debate, you may see some of my arguments as logically sound and reduce your exposure while there is time.  Once an RD is officially announced you will be out of time.  yOu will not be able to exchange your currency in time.  It will become worthless.  and that's no koolaide, my brothers and sisters.

[waterman13]

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.  Faith is the virus of 'non-thinking'.

Hebrews 11:1 NKJV

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

Hebrews 11:7 NKJV

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

 

Without faith, all is lost.

JMHO, based on the Word of God

Wm13

[sxsess]

I point any interested individuals to the CBI Law at the following link:  http://cbi.iq/documents/CBILAW-EN_f.pdf

 

Please take a look at Article 36 on page 25.  Based on previous currency denominations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redenomination), I would like to know how anyone will be exchanging their Dinars once the LOP occurs.  You cannot go to dealers since they will not be allowed to travel to Iraq with such a large quantity of Dinar notes.  You will not be able to go to Iraq to exchange Dinars yourselves since you will be hindered by travel restrictions in addition to import/export currency limits.  Finally, banks will not exchange them since the IQD is not internationally traded.

AdwRd no one knows what is going to happen. Article 36 says nothing about exchanges. Basing previous RD's is a waste of time, as Iraq's situation is different. You say "once the LOP occurs"... How do you know this?? IMO, if they do LOP they will simultaneously raise the rate. IMO, the best I can do is maybe double or triple my investment anyway, but thats OK with me. If I lose the ~$30K I have invested in this, then its on me. I made the choice to invest, speculate that is. Obviously you are sure this will LOP only. I disagree.

[rockfl9]

Dinarians,  Please don't misunderstand my position on this thing.  I am an individual of great faith.  Faith in things unseen.  Faith in the spiritual realm.  I'm not a hater.  I think you all are a great bunch of people to debate with.  I know what your dreams are on this.  Whether or not you hold dinar is strictly your business.  In my circumstances as a non-holder, I have been immersed in all the koolaide thinking and illogical thinking of people around me whom I care about.  I have already seen damage done.  Now, to you who have wisely said, "invest only what you can afford to lose", I applaude you.  Unfortuneately, thousands have spent way more than they should have, thus denying themselves of instant access to funds if a crisis arose.  I debate because I see this as a looming disaster for you folks.  I don't expect you to agree, but in honest open debate, you may see some of my arguments as logically sound and reduce your exposure while there is time.  Once an RD is officially announced you will be out of time.  yOu will not be able to exchange your currency in time.  It will become worthless.  and that's no koolaide, my brothers and sisters.

[/quote

I agree with the points you make. Some I feel think that the potential loss risk is the 15% spread to buy and another 15% to sell as things are now. That's because the dealers can recycle inventory. But even if they have a way to dispose of dinar to Iraq or ME banks , it will be costly and risky so the sell spread will increase.

[Artitech]

Dinarians,  Please don't misunderstand my position on this thing.  I am an individual of great faith.  Faith in things unseen.  Faith in the spiritual realm.  I'm not a hater.  I think you all are a great bunch of people to debate with.  I know what your dreams are on this.  Whether or not you hold dinar is strictly your business.  In my circumstances as a non-holder, I have been immersed in all the koolaide thinking and illogical thinking of people around me whom I care about.  I have already seen damage done.  Now, to you who have wisely said, "invest only what you can afford to lose", I applaude you.  Unfortuneately, thousands have spent way more than they should have, thus denying themselves of instant access to funds if a crisis arose.  I debate because I see this as a looming disaster for you folks.  I don't expect you to agree, but in honest open debate, you may see some of my arguments as logically sound and reduce your exposure while there is time.  Once an RD is officially announced you will be out of time.  yOu will not be able to exchange your currency in time.  It will become worthless.  and that's no koolaide, my brothers and sisters.

Well like I say, Im ridin this horse till he dies. I too, jumped into this investment without any investigation. I was listening to one of my customers koolade rants. I let Greed set in. I dove into this head 1st. I like others have not put in this, what I can't afford to lose. I hope we dont lose at all. If your right, which I have a feeling now, you are. I want be buying toilet paper for a while. If I had it to do over again, I would not do it. For a lot of reasons I want go into. Because they may not be politically correct. But the horse is out of the barn. I probally would have went to the race track or bought another nag horse that couldnt run a lick anyway. One thing I have learned at the track never change a bet. I do Have faith in the Good Lord Jesus, he says all I need is a mustard seeds worth of faith, I know I have that much. The moral of all this is, if those dinar do RV, then I'm going to be able to be the Steward the Good Lord Jesus wants me to be. Because, I'm going to be able to help a lot of hurting people and thats a promise you can take to the bank. I too have met a lot of very smart and great people here on DV, they have taught me a lot, for which I'm grateful. I like the friendships with the people, I have talked to here on DV. I think Adam is a very smart man. Thats why I have my wagon hitched to him, I'm very thankful for him and his knowledge on this subject. JMHO YEE-HAW  Peace & Love! 

[keepmwlknfny]

AdwRd no one knows what is going to happen. Article 36 says nothing about exchanges. Basing previous RD's is a waste of time, as Iraq's situation is different. You say "once the LOP occurs"... How do you know this?? IMO, if they do LOP they will simultaneously raise the rate. IMO, the best I can do is maybe double or triple my investment anyway, but thats OK with me. If I lose the ~$30K I have invested in this, then its on me. I made the choice to invest, speculate that is. Obviously you are sure this will LOP only. I disagree.

Whoa....bud you invested 30k???

Can't tell you what to do with your money but take a serious look at this as you do have a high possibility of losing that all. At least try to limit your exposure by quite a bit.....I really would hate to hear you lose all of that. I k ow we don't agree on a lot but thay doesn't mean I don't care about what could happen to you!!

Edited May 7, 2014 by keepmwlknfny

[SnowGlobe7]

$30k...that's a lot of cat chow!!!!

[sxsess]

Whoa....bud you invested 30k???

Yes between $28-30K. Its money I could afford to lose. I never expected to make millions with this. Hopefully a double or triple.

Whoa....bud you invested 30k???

Can't tell you what to do with your money but take a serious look at this as you do have a high possibility of losing that all. At least try to limit your exposure by quite a bit.....I really would hate to hear you lose all of that. I k ow we don't agree on a lot but thay doesn't mean I don't care about what could happen to you!!

I agree with more than you think keep. I am concerned about the $ supply. I appreciate your concern. I have made a lot of money over the past 4 years in the stock market. If I lose here, it will not affect my lifestyle and retirement goals. Just maybe what little ego I have.

Edited May 7, 2014 by sxsess

[dontlop]

Hang on a minute!  I take great offense with your statement respecting "low inflation"!  Is this a joke of particular bad humor or are you being serious?  Iraq has an extremely bad case of inflation...:

 

2004 = 12.25tn Dinars2005 = 14.68tn Dinars2006 = 21.08tn Dinars2007 = 26.95tn Dinars2008 = 34.92tn Dinars2009 = 45.44tn Dinars2010 = 60.26tn Dinars2011 = 65.11tn Dinars2012 = 72.02tn Dinars2013 = 87.77tn Dinars

04/22/2014

Confirms financial expert and there are about 70 trillion Iraqi dinars as seed money frozen in banks and official institutions and civil government can invested within development projects.

, in an interview with Radio Free Iraq, expert says the appearance of Mohammed Saleh, who served as deputy governor of the Iraqi Central Bank in the past that 30 trillion dinars of those funds existing government banks accumulated surpluses budgets of previous years

as a result of non-implementation of government institutions, the entire investment plans, as well as 40 trillion dinars other in the form of deposits with institutions Jkumah and civil.

, however, a member of the Finance Committee in the House of Representatives Abdul-Hussein al-Yasiri explains his part that the funds surplus budgets not considered frozen, but it is money rounded to the government's favor,

ruling that the funds surplus budgets, the impact on the Iraqi economy to the point of increasing the rate of inflation, the fact that money and bank deposits are not pumped into the local market.

so stressed economic expert Majid picture that the government resorted to the use of funds surpluses of previous budgets, outside the framework of the budget as a result of the absence of the final accounts of the budgets of the general government must submit the end of each year,

pointing out that a large proportion of that money spent advances to state employees government has been unable to recover only a small part of them as a result of the economic problems that plagued Iraq and that resolved in accordance with the decisions he described as "improvised.

" The Union of Arab Banks own earlier warned of the repercussions of the continued lack of funds exploiting surplus budgets on the Iraqi economy, calling on the Iraqi government to invest that money in resolving the economic problems, perhaps several of the most prominent of the housing crisis.

[keepmwlknfny]

Yes between $28-30K. Its money I could afford to lose. I never expected to make millions with this. Hopefully a double or triple.

I agree with more than you think keep. I am concerned about the $ supply. I appreciate your concern. I have made a lot of money over the past 4 years in the stock market. If I lose here, it will not affect my lifestyle and retirement goals. Just maybe what little ego I have.

Well I wish you the best of luck....and hope you at least don't lose any of it!

[sxsess]

Well I wish you the best of luck....and hope you at least don't lose any of it!

I have thought about reducing my exposure several times. My girlfriend has 10M dinars and is also thinking about selling some back. Sterling Bank (Dinar Banker) will buy them back for $820p/M. I am undecided about this. I know this could end badly but I also feel there is a chance to make some money here. I know you dont think so. As knowledgeable as you are with economics and currency, you still haven't convinced me that some type of currency revaluation isn't possible. No offense.

[Jaxinjersey]

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.  Faith is the virus of 'non-thinking'.

Nonsense...  Is that your own quote?   That's your response?  That's about as shallow as it gets in the realm of genuine thinking.   Go through my other thousand-plus posts and then give me an assessment of my intellect. 

 

Faith, in anything, is also a peaceful reward for the depth of intellect.   It provides the comfort of "shutting down" your brain at times... allowing your inert clarity to take over on autopilot... a form of meditation, if you will.  Trust in prior reasoning.

 

Not everything needs to be constantly analyzed, hence overanalyzed.  It is often very healthy to accept the resolve of your reasoning, validating your clarity... over beating your head against the wall trying to convince yourself, or others... that you are "right".     

 

As I said...  it's my faith, and it's not yours to judge.   My faith serves my intellect, rewards my intellect, and nurtures room for enlightenment.   And, in intelligent reciprocation... reasoning does the same for faith.

 

Employ both reasoning and faith... you will understand the nature of the reward.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Jaxinjersey

[AdwRd]

AdwRd no one knows what is going to happen. Article 36 says nothing about exchanges. Basing previous RD's is a waste of time, as Iraq's situation is different. You say "once the LOP occurs"... How do you know this?? IMO, if they do LOP they will simultaneously raise the rate. IMO, the best I can do is maybe double or triple my investment anyway, but thats OK with me. If I lose the ~$30K I have invested in this, then its on me. I made the choice to invest, speculate that is. Obviously you are sure this will LOP only. I disagree.

I am truly shocked after reading the amount you have invested in this.  You must be a very wealthy individual to have the ability to invest this kind of sum in an investment that will simply provide no return.  Furthermore, there is an extremely high chance that you will lose 100% of your money.  Please take my advice and head to your local investment advisor at your bank.  Inform him or her about your holdings in the Dinar and please listen to his or her suggestion!  Again, I must qualify this comment by stating that I do not know your financial situation.  If you have liquid millions of US dollars in your bank account, then 30k is a drop in the bucket.  However, if this even represents 5% of your overall net worth, I must question your sanity.

Edited May 7, 2014 by AdwRd

[ewingm]

This is my point.  Many people have put significant money on this gambit.  I know one individual who has 100 grand in dinars, and I can assure you they haven't made alot of money in the stock market.  This is a very dangerous speculation.  There are many ways for you to lose it all.  If you trust the iraqis to do "the right thing", you have seriously drunk the koolaide.  They despise Americans.  I believe they will do everything and anything this side of legal, to sweep all  speculators off their rug.  Obviously the Redenomination is the easiest thing to do to accomplish that task.  When that is announced, you will join hundreds of thousands of American dinar holders desparately looking for some website to take your currency.  It will all have to be checked for authenticity, slowing the exchange process.  Absolute nigjtmare scenario.  I am simply stunned that so few dinarians have even thought this out, because it is the most obvious way to reduce iraq's dinar load. 

[AdwRd]

I have thought about reducing my exposure several times. My girlfriend has 10M dinars and is also thinking about selling some back. Sterling Bank (Dinar Banker) will buy them back for $820p/M. I am undecided about this. I know this could end badly but I also feel there is a chance to make some money here. I know you dont think so. As knowledgeable as you are with economics and currency, you still haven't convinced me that some type of currency revaluation isn't possible. No offense.

I truly hope you decide to reduce your exposure!  I still cringe after reading about the sum you have invested in this... Did you do objective and impartial research on this thing (I hate to call it an investment)?  I beg you to read other sites and really sit down and analyse the economic and financial data of the absurdity of a mythical RV. Please don't misconstrue my comment as disrespectful; you must be a very intelligent man to have made money in the stock market.  However, if you fell into this mess due to friends, relatives, and/or guru BS, then I beg you to really get over the hump and realize this is all BS.

[dontlop]

Where is the wealth of nations

Measuring wealth for the 21st century

World bank

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTEEI/214578-1110886258964/20748034/All.pdf

Energy and Mineral Resources

In this section, the methodology used in the estimation of the value

of nonrenewable resources is described. At least three reasons lie

behind the diffi culties in such calculations. First, the importance of the

inclusion of natural resources in the national accounting systems has been

recognized only in the last decades, and although efforts to broaden the

national accounts are being made, they are mostly limited to international

organizations (such as the UN or the World Bank). Second, there are no

private markets for subsoil resource deposits to convey information on the

value of these stocks. Third, the stock size is defi ned in economic terms—

reserves are “that part of the reserve base which could be economically

extracted or produced at the time of determination”—and, therefore, it is

dependent on the prevalent economic conditions, namely technology and

prices.6

Despite all these diffi culties, dollar values were assigned to the stocks

of the main energy resources (oil, gas, and coal7) and to the stocks of

10 metals and minerals (bauxite, copper, gold, iron ore, lead, nickel,

phosphate rock, silver, tin, and zinc) for all the countries that have

production figures.

Do Changes in Wealth Matter for

the Generation of Well-Being?

Natural resources are special economic goods because they are not

produced. As a consequence, natural resources will yield economic

profi ts—rents—if properly managed. These rents can be an important

source of development fi nance, and countries like Botswana and Malaysia

have successfully used natural resources in this way. There are no

sustainable diamond mines, but there are sustainable diamond-mining

countries. Behind this statement is an assumption that it is possible to

transform one form of wealth—diamonds in the ground—into other

forms of wealth such as buildings, machines, and human capital.

The world bank link above may explain a few things to the speculators

Edited May 7, 2014 by dontlop

[waterman13]

This is my point.  Many people have put significant money on this gambit.  I know one individual who has 100 grand in dinars, and I can assure you they haven't made alot of money in the stock market.  This is a very dangerous speculation.  There are many ways for you to lose it all.  If you trust the iraqis to do "the right thing", you have seriously drunk the koolaide.  They despise Americans.  I believe they will do everything and anything this side of legal, to sweep all  speculators off their rug.  Obviously the Redenomination is the easiest thing to do to accomplish that task.  When that is announced, you will join hundreds of thousands of American dinar holders desparately looking for some website to take your currency.  It will all have to be checked for authenticity, slowing the exchange process.  Absolute nigjtmare scenario.  I am simply stunned that so few dinarians have even thought this out, because it is the most obvious way to reduce iraq's dinar load. 

 

 

I truly hope you decide to reduce your exposure!  I still cringe after reading about the sum you have invested in this... Did you do objective and impartial research on this thing (I hate to call it an investment)?  I beg you to read other sites and really sit down and analyse the economic and financial data of the absurdity of a mythical RV. Please don't misconstrue my comment as disrespectful; you must be a very intelligent man to have made money in the stock market.  However, if you fell into this mess due to friends, relatives, and/or guru BS, then I beg you to really get over the hump and realize this is all BS.

Why are you two even on this website, or any Dinar site? It is obvious you don't believe anyone will make a dime on this speculation. In fact it appears you think everyone will lose everything. Let me ask you a question: Where did George Soros make his start toward being a wealthy person? Do you know the answer? I'll Tell you, currency speculation. You know what country, what currency? I'll bet you don't.

Wm13

Edited May 7, 2014 by waterman13