Question About Taxes For A Dinar Reinstatement

[dannyc]

Hi!

I thought that I read someone on this website that if the Iraqi dinar is reinstated instead of revalued it would work like a foreign currency exchange and we would not have to pay any capital gains taxes or other taxes? Is that true?

Sincerely,

Danny

[The Watcher]

Wouldn't a re-instatement be diretly tied to the old currency, which no longer exists. The IQD as we know it is a brand new currency. The new rate may be close to the old rate of the Saddam currency, but I would think it will officially be an RV, not an RI. To me it doesn't matter, I will render unto Ceasar, and so will everyone else, one way or the other.

[GrahamB]

I will render unto Ceasar, and so will everyone else, one way or the other.

It seems to me that 'Ceasar' has lost the plot, and is not deserving of slavish obedience! While my country is not quite as bad as USA, nevertheless we too spend to much on bad management; pork-barrel politics; and unnecessary medical treatments and pharmaceuticals; in a frenzy driven by vested interests. As long as an oncologist makes approx. half his income from selling poisons masquarading as 'therapies', and is happy to let the public trough pay for it while turning a prejudiced, blind, and uncaring eye on far more effective and cheaper remedies, then I do not desire to pay any more than I must.

And there are ways of making that a very small amount!

[mars]

The IRS will get their share no matter what. They told me that any currency exchanged in the US and a profit was made, there will be a tax. I wish it could be different.

[dannyc]

The IRS will get their share no matter what. They told me that any currency exchanged in the US and a profit was made, there will be a tax. I wish it could be different.

ok thanks for letting me know

[GrahamB]

The IRS will get their share no matter what. They told me that any currency exchanged in the US and a profit was made, there will be a tax. I wish it could be different.

There are ways, both to minimise the tax when the funds are redeemed, and to minimise the tax on your investment of those funds.

[MarkusSTT]

The IRS will get their share no matter what. They told me that any currency exchanged in the US and a profit was made, there will be a tax. I wish it could be different.

"...exchanged in the US..." maybe the answer is NOT to exchange in the US.

There are ways, both to minimise the tax when the funds are redeemed, and to minimise the tax on your investment of those funds.

You had me at minimize!!! Spill the beans!

[darkstar]

One is taxed on "income" derived from activity in the course of a "trade or business."

"Trade or business" is defined as the performance of the functions of public office. See 26 USC 7701(a)(26)

Information returns are only issued in the course of a "trade or business." See 26 USC 6041.

Since all Dinar holders are in fact holding cash, they will incumber you to the tax through FinCEN Form 104, again, which is only promulgated in the course of a "trade or business." However, a "U.S. person" is always presumed to be engaged in a "trade or business" by virtue of the presence of a SSN or ITIN, which are mandated by 31 CFR 103.24 as a result of the USA PATRIOT Act.

Here's where they really get you. Naively, most Americans presume they are a "U.S. person," which is defined in 26 USC 7701(a)(30) as a "citizen" or "resident" of the "United States."

"United States" is defined in 26 USC 7701(a)(9). The term "State" is defined for the purposes of the United States Code in 4 USC 110(d). The Internal Revenue Code is not talking about citizenship imputed through the conference of nationality. No . . . they are imputing citizenship through your consent by a naive affirmation that the submitter is a "citizen" as that term connotes domicile on Federal Territory.

99.99% of Americans in this country are "nonresident aliens" defined in 26 USC 7701(B )(1 )(B ), because they do not reside in the "United States" AS DEFINED, nor are they domestic "ciitizens" of the Federal domicile, thus they are "foreign," or put another way, they are "alien." They are "nonresident aliens."

Guess what? A "nonresident alien" not engaged in a "trade or business" is not required to submit a FinCEN Form 104, nor is he/she required to disclose a SSN/ITIN when opening bank accounts.

Folks, you have all been duped! Ignore this if you want.

Are there any other CPAs, Tax Attorneys, or Judges out there who would like to rebut any of this?

Bring it on . . . I welcome the open debate in a public forum. This is why I always give citations.

Do you all know who I am?

Edited May 5, 2010 by darkstar

[SuperFlyJr]

"...exchanged in the US..." maybe the answer is NOT to exchange in the US.

That's certainly something I've been considering. This looks intriguing ...

You had me at minimize!!! Spill the beans!

I'm very interested in this topic as well, which is why I've posted a few things in the Tax Discussion forum. Share!

Edited May 5, 2010 by SuperFlyJr

[Captjohn]

One is taxed on "income" derived from activity in the course of a "trade or business."

"Trade or business" is defined as the performance of the functions of public office. See 26 USC 7701(a)(26)

Information returns are only issued in the course of a "trade or business." See 26 USC 6041.

Since all Dinar holders are in fact holding cash, they will incumber you to the tax through FinCEN Form 104, again, which is only promulgated in the course of a "trade or business." However, a "U.S. person" is always presumed to be engaged in a "trade or business" by virtue of the presence of a SSN or ITIN, which are mandated by 31 CFR 103.24 as a result of the USA PATRIOT Act.

Here's where they really get you. Naively, most Americans presume they are a "U.S. person," which is defined in 26 USC 7701(a)(30) as a "citizen" or "resident" of the "United States."

"United States" is defined in 26 USC 7701(a)(9). The term "State" is defined for the purposes of the United States Code in 4 USC 110(d). The Internal Revenue Code is not talking about citizenship imputed through the conference of nationality. No . . . they are imputing citizenship through your consent by a naive affirmation that the submitter is a "citizen" as that term connotes domicile on Federal Territory.

99.99% of Americans in this country are "nonresident aliens" defined in 26 USC 7701(B )(1 )(B ), because they do not reside in the "United States" AS DEFINED, nor are they domestic "ciitizens" of the Federal domicile, thus they are "foreign," or put another way, they are "alien." They are "nonresident aliens."

Guess what? A "nonresident alien" not engaged in a "trade or business" is not required to submit a FinCEN Form 104, nor is he/she required to disclose a SSN/ITIN when opening bank accounts.

Folks, you have all been duped! Ignore this if you want.

Are there any other CPAs, Tax Attorneys, or Judges out there who would like to rebut any of this?

Bring it on . . . I welcome the open debate in a public forum. This is why I always give citations.

Do you all know who I am?

Thanks for an excellent synopsis of Fed Regs impacting our dinar investment. As the government thrives on ambiguous and undecipherable regulations, I guess I will just play it safe; pay my taxes and not look back. Anything I would save trying to fight the gov'ts legion of lawyers (which I pay for) would essentially eat-up any savings I would/could enjoy. They never lose.

[MarkusSTT]

One is taxed on "income" derived from activity in the course of a "trade or business."

"Trade or business" is defined as the performance of the functions of public office. See 26 USC 7701(a)(26)

Information returns are only issued in the course of a "trade or business." See 26 USC 6041.

Since all Dinar holders are in fact holding cash, they will incumber you to the tax through FinCEN Form 104, again, which is only promulgated in the course of a "trade or business." However, a "U.S. person" is always presumed to be engaged in a "trade or business" by virtue of the presence of a SSN or ITIN, which are mandated by 31 CFR 103.24 as a result of the USA PATRIOT Act.

Here's where they really get you. Naively, most Americans presume they are a "U.S. person," which is defined in 26 USC 7701(a)(30) as a "citizen" or "resident" of the "United States."

"United States" is defined in 26 USC 7701(a)(9). The term "State" is defined for the purposes of the United States Code in 4 USC 110(d). The Internal Revenue Code is not talking about citizenship imputed through the conference of nationality. No . . . they are imputing citizenship through your consent by a naive affirmation that the submitter is a "citizen" as that term connotes domicile on Federal Territory.

99.99% of Americans in this country are "nonresident aliens" defined in 26 USC 7701(B )(1 )(B ), because they do not reside in the "United States" AS DEFINED, nor are they domestic "ciitizens" of the Federal domicile, thus they are "foreign," or put another way, they are "alien." They are "nonresident aliens."

Guess what? A "nonresident alien" not engaged in a "trade or business" is not required to submit a FinCEN Form 104, nor is he/she required to disclose a SSN/ITIN when opening bank accounts.

Folks, you have all been duped! Ignore this if you want.

Are there any other CPAs, Tax Attorneys, or Judges out there who would like to rebut any of this?

Bring it on . . . I welcome the open debate in a public forum. This is why I always give citations.

Do you all know who I am?

I don't know who you are, and I didn't understand a damn thing you just said; but it did sound good, and I believe that was your intention.

Edited May 5, 2010 by MarkusSTT

[darkstar]

I don't know who you are, and I didn't understand a damn thing you just said; but it did sound good, and I believe that was your intention.

MarkusSTT,

If the above is true, then chances are you are misapplying the Federal Income Tax to your great detriment. There is a very good reason that the authors of the Code have made it so long, so convoluted, and so intimidating.

There is also a very good reason they have created the entity known as a "U.S. person." The authors of the code are exploiting Americans' blind patriotism, blind nationalism, and legal ignorance.

Do not close your eyes to what is really going on around you. Things are not at all what they appear to be.

[MarkusSTT]

MarkusSTT,

If the above is true, then chances are you are misapplying the Federal Income Tax to your great detriment. There is a very good reason that the authors of the Code have made it so long, so convoluted, and so intimidating.

There is also a very good reason they have created the entity known as a "U.S. person." The authors of the code are exploiting Americans' blind patriotism, blind nationalism, and legal ignorance.

Do not close your eyes to what is really going on around you. Things are not at all what they appear to be.

Copy that.

[TMC]

Copy that.

Here's just a thought to keep in mind. If any one person, that's "1" single individual, were to ever get away with "not" paying taxes, for example, actually winning the court case, do you have any idea just how big of a problem that would be for the IRS and our Federal Government???? A major presidence would be set. The Federal Goverment would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing" to insure that they never lost that case, even if it meant that they would drag that out in court for eternity.

[GrahamB]

Here's just a thought to keep in mind. If any one person, that's "1" single individual, were to ever get away with "not" paying taxes, for example, actually winning the court case, do you have any idea just how big of a problem that would be for the IRS and our Federal Government???? A major presidence would be set. The Federal Goverment would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing" to insure that they never lost that case, even if it meant that they would drag that out in court for eternity.

Absolutely agree! This whole theory sounds weird to me. If it had any chance of standing up in court someone would have tested it, and you can bet, if a court upheld it it would either be reversed in the Supreme Court or Congress/Senate would change the law in a heartbeat! And retrospectively too!

You have to look outside this sort of 'logical impossibility' to find the solutions you are looking for. But be assured the answer is right in front of you!

[darkstar]

Graham B et al.,

You are correct. It is hidden right in front of you. It's hidden right under your nose.

And you are correct about the Government stopping at nothing to prosecute those who are already IN THE SYSTEM!!! The people who repeatedly are slapped down in Federal Court and Tax Court are those who have already naively availed themselves to the infirmities to which I alluded to in my post above. Then they subsequently try to protest the tax.

The reality is that if you are not subject, then there should be nothing to fight. But if you have declared yourself to be a "U.S. person," disclosed a SSN or ITIN, then you ARE IN THE TAX SYSTEM. A "nonresident alien" not engaged in a "trade or business"

DOES NOT have to disclose a SSN

DOES NOT have to enter into VOLUNTARY withholding agreements [see 26 USC 3402(p)(3)]

and therefore, since there are NO information returns promulgated IAW 26 USC 6041, there is NO PRESUMPTION OF TAXABLE LIABILITY.

The sad thing is, most Americans are woefully unaware of who they are under the Constitution, and with regard to the foreign legal venue called the District of Columbia. This is the "United States" they are referring to in the Tax Code.

Stop mocking, scoffing, and doubting. Start acting like intelligent Americans who are brave and free, and read the law for yourselves.

The Federal Income Tax is an indirect excise tax on Federal Earnings AND (don't miss this) any other private-sector earnings that are voluntarily TREATED AS IF THEY WERE FEDERAL EARNINGS by virtue of the "U.S. person" tax status election and subsequent disclosure of a SSN.

You are trapped in a legal, Federal Plantation through a private contract agreement between yourself and the Federal Corporation called the "United States." See 28 USC 3002(15)(A).

Where they get most Americans is through their ignorance in the following areas:

1. You probably believe that earning money in and of itself is a taxable event, when it is not.

2. Earning money with the Federal Government is an excise taxable event. The measure of excise taxability is guaged by the amount of income that activity produces.

3. Since those engaged in an excise taxable event are typically paid in dollars, it is wrongly presumed that those receiving dollars, are engaged in an excise taxable event. The two are mutually exclusive.

4. Through blind nationalism and ill-founded pride in country coupled with legal ignorance, most American Citizens believe they are a "citizen" or "resident" of the "United States" as defined in 4 USC 110(d) and 26 USC 7701(a)(9). They are not.

5. Most Americans cannot even fathom that the government (run by the IMF) would furnish provisions whereby you could ELECT to be treated as a "lawful permanent resident" of the "United States" through 26 USC 7701((6).

FOLKS, STOP DENYING AND GET SMART ON THIS. YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED AND YOU ARE ALL PARALYZED BY FEAR. Look at what is happening in Greece. America is next if the sheep don't wake up and start acting like Americans!!!

Do you know who I am?

[luvalife]

Graham B et al.,

You are correct. It is hidden right in front of you. It's hidden right under your nose.

And you are correct about the Government stopping at nothing to prosecute those who are already IN THE SYSTEM!!! The people who repeatedly are slapped down in Federal Court and Tax Court are those who have already naively availed themselves to the infirmities to which I alluded to in my post above. Then they subsequently try to protest the tax.

The reality is that if you are not subject, then there should be nothing to fight. But if you have declared yourself to be a "U.S. person," disclosed a SSN or ITIN, then you ARE IN THE TAX SYSTEM. A "nonresident alien" not engaged in a "trade or business"

DOES NOT have to disclose a SSN

DOES NOT have to enter into VOLUNTARY withholding agreements [see 26 USC 3402(p)(3)]

and therefore, since there are NO information returns promulgated IAW 26 USC 6041, there is NO PRESUMPTION OF TAXABLE LIABILITY.

The sad thing is, most Americans are woefully unaware of who they are under the Constitution, and with regard to the foreign legal venue called the District of Columbia. This is the "United States" they are referring to in the Tax Code.

Stop mocking, scoffing, and doubting. Start acting like intelligent Americans who are brave and free, and read the law for yourselves.

The Federal Income Tax is an indirect excise tax on Federal Earnings AND (don't miss this) any other private-sector earnings that are voluntarily TREATED AS IF THEY WERE FEDERAL EARNINGS by virtue of the "U.S. person" tax status election and subsequent disclosure of a SSN.

You are trapped in a legal, Federal Plantation through a private contract agreement between yourself and the Federal Corporation called the "United States." See 28 USC 3002(15)(A).

Where they get most Americans is through their ignorance in the following areas:

1. You probably believe that earning money in and of itself is a taxable event, when it is not.

2. Earning money with the Federal Government is an excise taxable event. The measure of excise taxability is guaged by the amount of income that activity produces.

3. Since those engaged in an excise taxable event are typically paid in dollars, it is wrongly presumed that those receiving dollars, are engaged in an excise taxable event. The two are mutually exclusive.

4. Through blind nationalism and ill-founded pride in country coupled with legal ignorance, most American Citizens believe they are a "citizen" or "resident" of the "United States" as defined in 4 USC 110(d) and 26 USC 7701(a)(9). They are not.

5. Most Americans cannot even fathom that the government (run by the IMF) would furnish provisions whereby you could ELECT to be treated as a "lawful permanent resident" of the "United States" through 26 USC 7701((6).

FOLKS, STOP DENYING AND GET SMART ON THIS. YOU HAVE BEEN DUPED AND YOU ARE ALL PARALYZED BY FEAR. Look at what is happening but in Greece. America is next if the sheep don't wake up and start acting like Americans!!!

Do you know who I am?

No, Darkstar I do not know who you are. However, I would like to. I am very interested in what you have to say and have learned a great deal from your posts. Thanks!

I will do whatever possible to keep the Government's sticky fingers off of my investments. Although, I am not sure if I could ever understand the codes/laws/statutes by educating myself. I will certainly do my best. However, i am afraid that my best will probably never be enough... I am positive that I will need some help interpreting it. Simply for sake of staying sane...and confident that what I am doing will be right. Where does one find someone like you? Someone who is not afraid to interpret the TRUTH!!!!!!

On another note. How on earth do you refrain from giving the company (large corporate) that you work for your SSN number? (or not "disclose") It is one of the first things that they ask for. How do you not have any taxes taken out of your check? I was under the impression that it was mandatory.... I guess that makes me a sheep. UGH!!!!

I am sure that I am not alone with these questions and I Have more.... Stay tuned!

Thanks in advance.

[GrahamB]

I will do whatever possible to keep the Government's sticky fingers off of my investments.

You don't have to 'educate' yourself as suggested, just look at what is already available to you by way of solutions. The answer is already waiting for you!

Check your personal comments!

[Soledad]

It seems to me that 'Ceasar' has lost the plot, and is not deserving of slavish obedience! While my country is not quite as bad as USA, nevertheless we too spend to much on bad management; pork-barrel politics; and unnecessary medical treatments and pharmaceuticals; in a frenzy driven by vested interests. As long as an oncologist makes approx. half his income from selling poisons masquarading as 'therapies', and is happy to let the public trough pay for it while turning a prejudiced, blind, and uncaring eye on far more effective and cheaper remedies, then I do not desire to pay any more than I must.

And there are ways of making that a very small amount!

It is very upseting to see people like you fighting paying taxes, when thanks to the US FORCES, which survive thanks to the taxes paid by good Americans, are the ones that are allowing this investment to materialize; so PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THING AND KEEP YOUR THOUGHT TO YOURSELF!

[GrahamB]

It is very upseting to see people like you fighting paying taxes, when thanks to the US FORCES, which survive thanks to the taxes paid by good Americans, are the ones that are allowing this investment to materialize; so PLEASE DO THE RIGHT THING AND KEEP YOUR THOUGHT TO YOURSELF!

Hey, I've got no problems supporting the guys and gals on the ground. I have done my time in the service of Queen and country myself!

But that does not mean that I owe any government a blind loyalty to pay for their greed and incompetemce, nor should I pay for the massive immorality that the FDA forces on you (all in the interst of making Big Pharma rich), especially when that incompetence and immorality trickles down to our wee part of the worl;d as well!

I have not problems paying tax in my earnings, nor on consumption (we have a 12.5% cross-the-board Goods & Services Tax that looks like going to 15% in Thursday nights budget). But capital gain taxes suck, IMHO.

Edited May 17, 2010 by GrahamB

[SteveG]

DarkStar is using classic tax protestor arguments that will NOT hold up in court, he will be ripped to shreds by federal prosecutors and end up paying 10 times more in penalties interest with a good chance of jail time. Don’t forget the extra expense, pain and heartache of defending yourself against the deep pockets of the federal government in a, in a multi month felony trial.

Taxes are expensive, but wouldn’t you rather pay your fair share than run the risk of losing EVERYTHING and spend months or years defending yourself in court, and run the risk of sitting in jail cell. Darkstar I would not get people hyped up on unproven theories!

The IRS is relentless machine that consumes people like you who think they have a silver bullet against taxes. They get really feisty when they find out you were trying to recruit people and teach people your flawed interpretations.

[honeybee]

Perhaps the obvious that our friend from down-under is referring to does not have to do with an exchange of currency, but rather, a deposit of currency without exchange. After depositing your currency into a foreign account without exchanging the currency deposited, no taxable event has occurred, and the currency may then be transfered from the foreign bank in one form to another foreign bank in another form without the exchange occurring within the borders of the US. Thus no taxable event has occurred because the currency has never been exchanged for USD. From that position, the currency may be exchanged more slowly back into USD or any other currency of legal tender for use in the desired State(nation) where the taxable event may be triggered at a smaller amount. In this way you are protecting the investable portion and only paying Caesar what belongs to Caesar (i.e. "legal tender" of the state).

[honeybee]

The other way of avoiding a taxable event is to exchange the currency for a commodity such as precious metal. There has not occurred a currency exchange until legal tender is exercised in the transaction, of which, dinar is not US Legal tender. ----- Just a thought; it's good to have one or two.

[Bob_Loblaw]

Darkstar, if you wouldn't mind (maybe even creating a new threat), I would like to know your exact plans and courses of action should an RV happen, in regards to taxes (if you aren't invested then hypothetically). What steps have you taken and what will you take?

[darkstar]

SteveG said:

Darkstar I would not get people hyped up on unproven theories!

SteveG, this is not an "unproven theory," this is precisely what the IRC says. SteveG, you have been indoctrinated perfectly. You have bought a lie that has been fed to you with a slippery spoon and the foul taste disguised by honey. Your legal ignorance is tremendous, yet you believe you are an expert in the law.

The Federal Income Tax is an excise tax levied against "gains, profits, and income" derived from a "trade or business." The term "trade or business" is defined as the performance of the functions of public office, see 26 USC 7701(a)(26). Any gain derived in the course of a "trade or business" is taxable, whether it be labor, capital gain, rents, interest, etc., etc., etc.

However, if you are a "nonresident alien" not engaged in a "trade or business," and the source of the "income" is not "United States" sourced (Government sourced), then the increase of aggregate wealth is not reportable, and not taxable.

This is not a theory. This is what the Statutes at Large say. This is what the Internal Revenue Code says. This is what the Treasury Regulations say. SteveG, it sounds like you have some homework to do. Or, put your "rose-colored" glasses back on. Don't kill the messenger. The IMF will be more than happy to accept your interest payment on the debt accrued by the "United States."

If you are engaged in any discussion with the IRS, then you have already screwed up your personal affairs. I've had enough of watchng my countrymen get raped by their own ignorance, thinking it is their duty to somehow pay taxes on everything they have earned.

If you deposit your dinar in a W-9 account, forget it . . . . you are going to pay the tax. If you deposit into a W-8ECI or W-8BEN or other similar account with a Federal Number . . . . . you will pay. I'm simply trying to answer questions and reveal the truth which is so incredibly lacking in our country. People know that something is wrong, but they can't identify it.

I'm still waiting for someone to produce a code section that rebuts anything I am presenting. The truth does not contradict itself. SteveG, open your eyes my friend. I'm not your enemy, I'm trying to reveal something the people of this country so badly need.