5 things conservatives lie about shamelessly

[ocdude]

Let me see if I can fix this stupid statement.

 

"3. The Affordable Care Act. It’s not just science where the left  have discovered the value in telling lies so fast you simply wear your opposition out. When it comes to healthcare reform, the lying has been relentless."

 

There now it sounds right.  There have never been so many lies and end runs perpetrated on the American people.

And  Obama Care is a disaster and you know it .  

 

 

 

Misquoting something to make it a lie is the lowest form of communication.

 

And ObamaCare is a disaster?? Why do you have such a low opinion of a law that helps kids stay on their parents insurance while they are too young to afford it themselves and people with pre existing conditions actually being able to GET insurance??

 

Or are you just determined to PROVE the original post?

Edited April 8, 2014 by ocdude

[Artitech]

Misquoting something to make it a lie is the lowest form of communication.

 

And ObamaCare is a disaster?? Why do you have such a low opinion of a law that helps kids stay on their parents insurance while they are too young to afford it themselves and people with pre existing conditions actually being able to GET insurance??

 

Or are you just determined to PROVE the original post?

Well first a kid is under 18 not a 27 year old man or women # 2 somebody has to pay for these deadbeat men and women. If a child needs health care cause they have child for a moma and daddy then we already have medicade. 3. Its not my responsibilty to have to pay for these shiftless, lazy, no count peoples insurance bill. they could always go into military they provide health care. NO obamacare

[Indraman]

Misquoting something to make it a lie is the lowest form of communication.

 

And ObamaCare is a disaster?? Why do you have such a low opinion of a law that helps kids stay on their parents insurance while they are too young to afford it themselves and people with pre existing conditions actually being able to GET insurance??

 

Or are you just determined to PROVE the original post?

The two benefits of ObummerCare that you listed did not require a total dismantling of the US HC system. If this is the best reasons for wanting ObummerCare that you can come up with, you need to go back to your false utopia and drink the Kool-Aid.

 

Now for the rest of us who are living in reality, let's analyze all of the reasons ObummerCare is bad policy and bad law:

 

1. ObummerCare is converting full-time jobs to part-time; companies are moving employees to part-time to avoid jobs being classified as full-time and mandating new HC requirements.

 

2. ObummerCare is stalling new job creation and companies from hiring.

 

3. HC cost are going to explode, not go down over time as was promised. Anyone with any basic business degree can determine that if you increase the demand for a good/service w/o increasing supply, the cost will only increase.

 

4. Rationing must take place to accommodate the increased demands on the HC system. All government run HC systems have resulted in rationing; there is not one system that does not do this to control costs.

 

5. More doctors and hospitals are going to opt-out of the ObammerCare and State exchanges; this will only exacerbated the death spiral of too much demand and decreased supply.

 

6. ObummerCare implements new taxes on Medical companies; these costs are going to be passed to the consumers, which result in additional rising costs.

 

7. ObummerCare implements new income taxes; this will also stall the growth of the economy.

 

8. ObummerCare needs young and healthy people to signup I order for the sick and unhealthy to receive the transfer of wealth to pay for their medical bills. What brainiac in DC thought this was a good idea?

 

Indy

[Danomite]

-1005. Why is this "stud" still here?

[ocdude]

The two benefits of ObummerCare that you listed did not require a total dismantling of the US HC system. If this is the best reasons for wanting ObummerCare that you can come up with, you need to go back to your false utopia and drink the Kool-Aid.

 

Now for the rest of us who are living in reality, let's analyze all of the reasons ObummerCare is bad policy and bad law:

 

1. ObummerCare is converting full-time jobs to part-time; companies are moving employees to part-time to avoid jobs being classified as full-time and mandating new HC requirements.

 

2. ObummerCare is stalling new job creation and companies from hiring.

 

3. HC cost are going to explode, not go down over time as was promised. Anyone with any basic business degree can determine that if you increase the demand for a good/service w/o increasing supply, the cost will only increase.

 

4. Rationing must take place to accommodate the increased demands on the HC system. All government run HC systems have resulted in rationing; there is not one system that does not do this to control costs.

 

5. More doctors and hospitals are going to opt-out of the ObammerCare and State exchanges; this will only exacerbated the death spiral of too much demand and decreased supply.

 

6. ObummerCare implements new taxes on Medical companies; these costs are going to be passed to the consumers, which result in additional rising costs.

 

7. ObummerCare implements new income taxes; this will also stall the growth of the economy.

 

8. ObummerCare needs young and healthy people to signup I order for the sick and unhealthy to receive the transfer of wealth to pay for their medical bills. What brainiac in DC thought this was a good idea?

 

Indy

HAHAHA>...sounds like the news feed from Fox News is really strong at your house. None of this is fact, other than needing young and healthy people to sign up....WHICH IS HAPPENING. Social Security ALSO needs young healthy people to pay into it. What are you going to do when all the doom and gloom you predict DOESN'T happen?

 

ObamaCare Myth: Obamacare Means Higher Taxes

Many Americans will save on medical costs and taxes because of ObamaCare, many more won't pay a dime more than they do now as far is taxes go. Higher-earners and large employers will be responsible for more taxes, but the group who will pay more almost universally profits off of the new law. The fact is ObamaCare includes the biggest middle class tax cut to health insurance in our nation's history due to providing tax credits to millions of Americans to lower their premium costs.

The only tax that impacts the average American directly is the "individual mandate". The mandate says: If you don’t obtain coverage or an exemption by January 1st, 2014 you must pay a per-month fee on your federal income tax return for every month you are without health insurance. In 2014 the fee is $95 per adult ($47.50 per child) or 1% of income, whichever is higher. The family max is $285.

The "employer mandate" for large employers to cover their workers did lead to some employees being cut back to part-time, but it also led to many more being moved from part-time to full-time in order to provide them with health benefits.

Small businesses won't have to insurance their employees, but if they choose to they may be eligible for tax breaks of up to 50% of the cost of their employee's premium costs.

The only people who are affected by most of the other taxes you hear about are about are the 3% of businesses and 2% of Americas richest families with incomes of over $250k and capital gains over $250k. - See ObamaCare Taxes for More info and Myth debunking on taxes.

Of course, just because your taxes don't go up, doesn't mean you won't pay more. In many cases getting a new plan that meets the benefits, rights, and protections of the ACA could end up costing you more (especially if you don't have access to cost assistance through the marketplace). Whether you pay more or less under the new law is dependent on your specific situation and the plan you buy.

ObamaCare doesn't raise your premium and doesn't mean higher taxes for the most part, but it does limit some tax breaks and tax deductions like HSA caps.

 

 

 

4. Rationing must take place to accommodate the increased demands on the HC system. All government run HC systems have resulted in rationing; there is not one system that does not do this to control costs.

 

Feel free to pay for your own health care with private insurance...nothing is stopping anyone from doing so.

-1005. Why is this "stud" still here?

Ever heard of free speech??

Well first a kid is under 18 not a 27 year old man or women # 2 somebody has to pay for these deadbeat men and women WELL FIRST OFF-NO 27 YEAR OLD HAS THEIR PARENTS HEALTH INSURANCE EVEN UNDER OBAMA CARE.. If a child needs health care cause they have child for a moma and daddy then we already have medicade. 3. Its not my responsibilty AND YOU WOULDN'T BE PAYING FOR IT ANYWAY. to have to pay for these shiftless, lazy, no count peoples insurance bill. they could always go into military they provide health care.NOT AN OPTION FOR MANY WITH PREEXISTING CONDITIONS. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2014 by ocdude

[Muleslayer]

One of the admins should look at ocdude ip.

Sounds a lot like stud himself talking.

[Danomite]

HAHAHA>...sounds like the news feed from Fox News is really strong at your house. None of this is fact, other than needing young and healthy people to sign up....WHICH IS HAPPENING. Social Security ALSO needs young healthy people to pay into it. What are you going to do when all the doom and gloom you predict DOESN'T happen?

 

ObamaCare Myth: Obamacare Means Higher Taxes

Many Americans will save on medical costs and taxes because of ObamaCare, many more won't pay a dime more than they do now as far is taxes go. Higher-earners and large employers will be responsible for more taxes, but the group who will pay more almost universally profits off of the new law. The fact is ObamaCare includes the biggest middle class tax cut to health insurance in our nation's history due to providing tax credits to millions of Americans to lower their premium costs.

The only tax that impacts the average American directly is the "individual mandate". The mandate says: If you don’t obtain coverage or an exemption by January 1st, 2014 you must pay a per-month fee on your federal income tax return for every month you are without health insurance. In 2014 the fee is $95 per adult ($47.50 per child) or 1% of income, whichever is higher. The family max is $285.

The "employer mandate" for large employers to cover their workers did lead to some employees being cut back to part-time, but it also led to many more being moved from part-time to full-time in order to provide them with health benefits.

Small businesses won't have to insurance their employees, but if they choose to they may be eligible for tax breaks of up to 50% of the cost of their employee's premium costs.

The only people who are affected by most of the other taxes you hear about are about are the 3% of businesses and 2% of Americas richest families with incomes of over $250k and capital gains over $250k. - See ObamaCare Taxes for More info and Myth debunking on taxes.

Of course, just because your taxes don't go up, doesn't mean you won't pay more. In many cases getting a new plan that meets the benefits, rights, and protections of the ACA could end up costing you more (especially if you don't have access to cost assistance through the marketplace). Whether you pay more or less under the new law is dependent on your specific situation and the plan you buy.

ObamaCare doesn't raise your premium and doesn't mean higher taxes for the most part, but it does limit some tax breaks and tax deductions like HSA caps.

 

 

 

4. Rationing must take place to accommodate the increased demands on the HC system. All government run HC systems have resulted in rationing; there is not one system that does not do this to control costs.

 

Feel free to pay for your own health care with private insurance...nothing is stopping anyone from doing so.

Ever heard of free speech??

Yah! I have! I've just exercised my right to FREE SPEECH!

Deal with it!

[ocdude]

One of the admins should look at ocdude ip.

Sounds a lot like stud himself talking.

Nope. There are a few of us who like to point out the truth....and a lot of you who hate to hear it.

Yah! I have! I've just exercised my right to FREE SPEECH!

Deal with it!

SO HAVE I .....!!! SO HAS DINAR STUD!!! DEAL WITH IT.

Edited April 8, 2014 by ocdude

[Markinsa]

One of the admins should look at ocdude ip.

Sounds a lot like stud himself talking.

 

Dinar Stud is P.R.

OcDude is L.A.

 

-

[ocdude]

Dinar Stud is P.R.

OcDude is L.A.

 

-

Actually OC DUDE is in OC.

[Markinsa]

Actually OC DUDE is in OC.

 

Your ISP is in LA.

 

-

[ocdude]

Your ISP is in LA.

 

-

But I am not. LA doesn't like OC and vice versa.

[Muleslayer]

Dinar Stud is P.R.

OcDude is L.A.

-

Damn it! That means there are TWO of them.

Lord help us!

P.s. Thanks mark.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Muleslayer

[Indraman]

I love how we are getting a lecture about lying...

 

What about:

 

You can keep your health plan?

 

You can keep your doctor?

 

Each family will save $2500/year?

 

I don't see any articles being posted about these whoppers. Does anyone honestly think ObummerCare would be the law of the land if they had only told the truth ? Nope! This thing would have gone the way of Hillarious Care.

 

Indy

[ocdude]

I love how we are getting a lecture about lying...

 

What about:

 

You can keep your health plan?

 

You can keep your doctor?

 

Each family will save $2500/year?

 

I don't see any articles being posted about these whoppers. Does anyone honestly think ObummerCare would be the law of the land if they had only told the truth ? Nope! This thing would have gone the way of Hillarious Care.

 

ObamaCare Myth: You Can Keep Your Current Health Insurance Plan

Over the years the claim has been made, "If you like your plan you can keep it, period." The truth is a little more complex than that. Not every American will be able to keep their health insurance plan moving into 2014. Those with private plans that meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act, those with grandfathered plans, and those with public health plans can keep their plans. Those who have non-grandfathered plans that don't offer the benefits, rights, and protections the new law mandates will have to choose a new plan that does by 2014. (This date has been pushed back to 2015 in many States.)

 

ObamaCare Myth: You Can Keep Your Doctor

No section of the Affordable Care Act (check out our summary of every provision in the PPACA) says you cannot keep your doctor, however your network isn't something that is determined by the new healthcare law. It is up to your provider to determine the network of doctors and hospitals you have access to. So if your insurance company changes your plan or offers you a new one there is no guarantee that you can keep your doctor.

 

How do you figure people who have no health insurance before would be saving 2500 a year when they have to pay NOW??

[Rockymtnhi]

Really sorry you're taking up space on the planet.

[Pablo404]

When Obama lies ...it is not a lie ...we misunderstood.

ACA page 272 - No cancer treatment after age 76

ACA page 50   - Non US residents and 'illegals' are eligible for coverage

ACA pages 58-59 - Government has 'real-time' access to enrollees accounts for withdrawals 

ACA page 65   - Unions, union retirees', community organizations (ACORN eg.) will have subsidized rates

ACA page241-243 - Government boards will set rates for physician, hospital compensations on an equal basis

 

Generally: If the ACA panel decides no coverage, then any ACA authorized hospital or physician is NOT permitted to be paid privately by an individual or suffer the possible loss of license to practice medicine. Doctor and Hospital access is limited by the government to 'approved and enrolled facilities' and thus the insurance companies facilities for their ACA compliant policies.

   A Health insurance policy which does not provide the same or equivalent coverages  as the ACA policy is not to be available by any company that has provided coverages under a separate ACA compliant policy. ( ie.: birth control, gynelogical for men, prostrate coverages for women - read some of the mandatory coverages and understand why other policies cannot be issued even if you have no need for those coverages.)

  $400 Billion taken from Medicare employee and employer payments to "subsidize' the ACA.

 

  When Obama  illegally "waives the law or its' parts"  you can still be fined (taxed) by the IRS for non-compliance and that is the reason some companies and individuals comply with the 'written law of the land" passed by Congress.and signed by the "President''. (The IRS never does anything 'retroactively" does it?? They just "re-define" terms.)

  Progressive (means increased taxes) Socialism (some comrads are more equal than other comrads) and Marxism/Leninism, 'Rules for Radicals' are fundamental to BHO's actions. He intends to "fundamentally change America" - he even said so.

  READ the LAW for yourself (about 4-6 weeks of research)...you already know Pelosi, Reid and Obama are liars.

[DinarCash]

Pablo404   

[Bunk]

   Obamacare is simple. The Government takes from the Middle class and distributes it to the poorer class..The middle class scratches its collective heads and asks? Whats going on?? This Governments(Progressive,Liberal) Goal is to do away with the Middle class,Demonize the upper middle class and rich,and have Everyone having a one size fits all population depending on Uncle Government.But You can be exempt if you are a Rich Democrat,then You are not demonized because well You know Democrats are hypocrites..

[dog53]

Yep Kill the old to stop their pay checks .

Thats what this is really about. 

Those that worked hard their whole lives and payed into the system are now

going to be literally executed .

No cancer treatment after 76. Hmmm .  On the same note they want to raise the retirement age to 70.

Or how bout the new catch phrase

"70 the new 60

My dad at 76 could still out hunt out work out walk most people half his age.

So if we contract cancer at 76 we are suppose to just graciously just die eh?

I have a real problem with this and so should every american that lives here.

[Yukon Silvermoon]

I'm not going to waste my time proving #5 wrong, so I'll just insist that you are an idiot, and claim my victory in the argument c:

[EagleEye]

TG you took the words right out of my mouth

 

Mark...you quoted the WORD for me

 

 

DS...so I guess liberals don't lie in your world ???   

 

BTW Since truth always trumps theory...if you are open to receiving the truth I have a wonderful reading list for you starting with 

 

GOD and the Astronomers...a real eye opener...

[ocdude]

When Obama lies ...it is not a lie ...we misunderstood.

ACA page 272 - No cancer treatment after age 76

ACA page 50   - Non US residents and 'illegals' are eligible for coverage

ACA pages 58-59 - Government has 'real-time' access to enrollees accounts for withdrawals 

ACA page 65   - Unions, union retirees', community organizations (ACORN eg.) will have subsidized rates

ACA page241-243 - Government boards will set rates for physician, hospital compensations on an equal basis

 

Generally: If the ACA panel decides no coverage, then any ACA authorized hospital or physician is NOT permitted to be paid privately by an individual or suffer the possible loss of license to practice medicine. Doctor and Hospital access is limited by the government to 'approved and enrolled facilities' and thus the insurance companies facilities for their ACA compliant policies.

   A Health insurance policy which does not provide the same or equivalent coverages  as the ACA policy is not to be available by any company that has provided coverages under a separate ACA compliant policy. ( ie.: birth control, gynelogical for men, prostrate coverages for women - read some of the mandatory coverages and understand why other policies cannot be issued even if you have no need for those coverages.)

  $400 Billion taken from Medicare employee and employer payments to "subsidize' the ACA.

 

  When Obama  illegally "waives the law or its' parts"  you can still be fined (taxed) by the IRS for non-compliance and that is the reason some companies and individuals comply with the 'written law of the land" passed by Congress.and signed by the "President''. (The IRS never does anything 'retroactively" does it?? They just "re-define" terms.)

  Progressive (means increased taxes) Socialism (some comrads are more equal than other comrads) and Marxism/Leninism, 'Rules for Radicals' are fundamental to BHO's actions. He intends to "fundamentally change America" - he even said so.

  READ the LAW for yourself (about 4-6 weeks of research)...you already know Pelosi, Reid and Obama are liars.

OBAMA IS NOT THE LIAR HERE....THE PHONY EMAIL YOU ARE QUOTING is.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE AND ACTUALLY READ THE LAW. Hint....absolutely NOTHING i this bill limits cancer treatment after age 76. NOTHING.

We can trace the origins of this collection of claims to a conservative blogger who issued his instant and mostly mistaken analyses as brief "tweets" sent via Twitter as he was paging through the 1,017-page bill. The claims have been embraced as true and posted on hundreds of Web sites, and forwarded in the form of chain e-mails countless times. But there’s hardly any truth in them. We’ll go through each of the claims in this message:

 

Claim: Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

False. This page merely calls for a study of whether a certain class of hospitals incur higher costs than some others for the cancer care they deliver. It also says the secretary of HHS “shall provide for an appropriate adjustment” in payments “to reflect those higher costs.” It’s hardly “rationing” to pay hospitals more to compensate for higher costs.

Claim: Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

False. That’s simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs.

Claim: 

Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

Misleading. Page 65 is the start of a section (SEC. 164. REINSURANCE PROGRAM FOR RETIREES) that would set up a new federal reinsurance plan to benefit retirees and spouses covered by any employer plan, not just those run by labor unions or nonprofit groups. Specifically, it covers “retirees and . . . spouses, surviving spouses and dependents of such retirees” who are covered by “employment-based plans” that provide health benefits. It’s open to any “group health benefits plan that . . . is maintained by one or more employers, former employers or employee associations,” as well as voluntary employees’ beneficiary associations (page 66). Furthermore, the aim of the fund is to cut premiums, copays and deductibles for the retirees. Payment “shall not be used to reduce the costs of an employer.”

Claim: 

Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

Misleading. Nothing in the bill would “set wages” for doctors in general. Page 127 says the government would ask doctors to accept below-market rates set by the government for their patients who are covered by a new “public health insurance option,” just as they now are asked to do so for patients covered by Medicare. Physicians would still be free to charge what they wish for other patients, and free not to accept patients covered by the new program just as they are now free to refuse Medicare patients. That’s not a choice many doctors make, however, so as a practical matter the government would be setting rates (not “wages”) for many patients. On the other hand, the new “public” plan is aimed mainly at covering people who have no insurance now and can afford to pay doctors little if anything.

 

Claim: 

Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

False. This section aims to simplify electronic payments for health services, the same sort of electronic payments that already are common for such things as utility bills or mortgage payments. The bill calls for the secretary of Health and Human Services to set standards for electronic administrative transactions that would "enable electronic funds transfers, in order to allow automated reconciliation with the related health care payment and remittance advice." There is no mention of "individual bank accounts" nor of any new government authority over them. Also, the section does not say that electronic payments from consumers is required.

[Big Newby]

Dinar Stud:

 

I hope you'll receive my request in the manner in which I send it -- I'd really like your sources that backup your claims: 

 

"A small sampling of the many, many lies spouted by gun industry advocates: That guns prevent murder, when in fact more guns correlates strongly with more murders. That gun control doesn’t work. That gun control is unpopular.  That any move to make gun ownership safer is a move to take away your guns. That a gun in the home makes you safer when it actually puts your family at more risk. That guns protect against domestic violence, when the truth is that owning a gun makes abuse worse, not better. Even the standard line “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is a distracting bit of dishonesty, since most gun deaths aren’t murders but suicides."

 

If any similar post was made on this site or any other by a Conservative, Leftists would be screaming for proof.  I'm not screaming (and I'm not a Leftist), but I sincerely would like your basis for making these allegations. 

 

Me thinks, however, that as usually occurs, Liberals' main defense against anything that might be considered as a Conservative cause is simply to blast its substance without ANY factual information or data, merely believing that stupid Americans will believe what Liberals say simply because they scream often and loudly.  Sadly in this case, crying "Wolf" may water down the desired effect if any/all of these "facts" are true.

 

I can only speak factually to one:  twice in my life if I had not had a firearm with me at a specific point, I would have been at least robbed in my home once and in my car once, and may have been injured.  There are many stories about guns saving peoples' lives.  And I'm certain our amazing Media don't report those stories as often and as diligently as they report the unfortunate killings that occur.

 

[reveldog]

a politician would never lie   

 

they would just make up a story