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Why is the USA going down?


sheltagar
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easyrider,

 

Yes, when Christ returns the dead in him shall rise and the living in him will be caught up together with them to meet our wonderful Messiah. Only those truly in Yahushua (Christ) will be spared of the second and final death. The living in Christ will be the only ones that do not have to experience either a physical death or the second and final death after judgment. This does NOT mean that they will not be judged because everyone WILL be judged accordingly.

Agreed, but those who are with Christ will not be judged for any sin.  We are in Christ because our sins have been forgiven.  Therefore there are no sins to be judged; it will only be blessings and rewards to be received.

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Amen!

One thing we can be sure of, is that God won't fit in any box we try to build for Him. The lawyers love to argue points of doctrine while God loves His children. As peacemakers and overcomers, we take care not to harm any of them or sow discord. We leave that job to the accuser...

I believe we should know what the Godhead is. It isn't a mystety

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Easy, the judgment and tribulation to which I refer are in the realm of time and both believers and unbelievers are involved. All the passages referring to tribulation have the believer or saint in mind, save one, Rm 2:9.  Do a quick check in your concordance.  All references to tribulation have to do with the troubles and persecution of saints in this world starting in the first century and ending with the Lord's coming on the Last Day.  If you can find a passage that states that the saint will not go through tribulation, could you post it?

 The Judgment Day or Last Day would be the end of all things.  The saint has nothing to fear regarding that day.  Actually, it doesn't matter.  If physical death comes the spirit of the saint will go to be with the Lord in Paradise and awaits the Last Day and the reuniting of his/her spirit into the eternal body resurrected on that day.  For the saint, there is no judgment for sin.  Christ has already taken care of both sin and punishment.  Only those who reject the Lord and His blood will be judged.    

Good News indeed!  Maranatha!

Judgment in time on nations and individuals was certainly because of disobedience to God and the sinful lives of the people.  Yet even the righteous can be killed during those times.  In the case of the judgment upon Israel and Jerusalem (Mt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21), both the wicked and the righteous were killed (Mt 24:20-22, 31).  The righteous dead will be gathered to the Lord.  Therefore, they should not fear the judgment on Jerusalem. This is not talking about the Second Coming and final judgment.  The ark during the flood was salvation for the eight souls and serves as a symbol of the safety we have in Christ (1Pt 3:21ff). In case you didn't run the references to the "tribulation," here they are (Mt 24:9, 21, 29; Jno 16:33; Rom 2:9; 5:3; 8:35; 12:12; 1Thes 1:6; Rev 1:9; 2:9; 2:10, 22), and then Rev 7:14, I am starting at verse 12. "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.  And one of the elders answered, saying to me, 'These ho are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and from where have they come?' And I said to him, 'My lord, you know.' And he said to me, 'These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  For this reason, thy are before the throne of God; and thy serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits of the throne shall spread His tabernacle over them.'"  In other words, they are saints who have been killed in the tribulation.   

Mark, when the Lord comes in a physical judgment on a nation or people (Flood, Babylon, Jerusalem, Germany, or even the USA, there will be saints who die but will be gathered to the Lord while the wicked and sent to hades.  At the Second Coming, that will happen at the "twinkling of an eye" and those alive at His coming will not be killed but will be transformed and go to be with the Lord.  The dead bodies of all men will be raised of both the wicked and righteous.  The wicked will cast into hell (there is no one there now), and the righteous will go to be with the Lord.  In other words, there is a difference between the judgment in time and the Second Coming.  However, the saint should not fear either.  "Perfect love casts out fear."  

And, "When we've been there ten thousand years bright shining as the sun, we've no less days to sing God's praise than when we first begun."

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Is anyone here baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost. With evidence of speaking in tongues

I have faith in Christ, repented of sins, been baptized for remission of sins, received  the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but the evidence of being a saint is living the life of Christ, a life of loving service (1Cor 13). Speaking in tongues was a lessor temporary gift. 

Being "filled with the Spirit" is the influence of the Spirit on the life of the believer.  It is manifested in several ways. 

Receiving the Spirit to live within us is what makes us a Child of God. The Spirit living within us is the seal of God that we are His.  

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I have faith in Christ, repented of sins, been baptized for remission of sins, received  the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but the evidence of being a saint is living the life of Christ, a life of loving service (1Cor 13). Speaking in tongues was a lessor temporary gift. 

Being "filled with the Spirit" is the influence of the Spirit on the life of the believer.  It is manifested in several ways. 

Receiving the Spirit to live within us is what makes us a Child of God. The Spirit living within us is the seal of God that we are His.

Tongues is evidence u have the Hoky Ghost.

You might want to read the book of acts.

Paul said he prays in tongues more than u all.

It's a powerful gift.by the way were u baptized in a Jesus name.

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sheltagar,

 

I was actually baptized in the name of Jesus. However, that was before I knew that Jesus was not his REAL name. His REAL name Is Yahushua Ha-Mashiach. The name Jesus is a transliteration at least three times over. When a word is transliterated it loses it's original meaning and in this case it was not even the right word. A transliteration only preserves the FORM of the original word. Jesus is not from any Hebrew, Greek, Latin or even English word and was not even in existence until around five-hundred years ago so, If you are being baptized in the name of "Jesus" you are NOT being baptized in the name of our savior, the Son Of our Heavenly Father who's name is NOT God, but YHWH or Yahuwah...

 

As for the Holy Spirit... The Holy Spirit is none other than the very spirit of Yahushua which proceeded from the Father, the one Eloah of whom are ALL things. I am filled with my savior's spirit each and every day because I love him more than anything and I submit myself to Yahuwah in faith and obedience by following his law, his word and by hungering for and seeking his truth and not man's. The things that were once loved are now hated and now my heart desires to do the will of Yahuwah. The soul must first be convicted of sin before the sinner will feel a desire to come to Yahuwah... and then only by the new birth can the carnal mind and heart of man be changed.

 

Being baptized does not get you to Heaven by the way. Just as going to church every SUNday does not either, etc. For the most part those two things as well as many others will actually result in just the opposite because they are not done in truth. Yahushua is the ONLY mediator between Yahuwah and man and if you think for one minute that your priest, pastor, elder, etc. can take his place you are sadly mistaken... and so are they!

 

In closing the speaking of tongues is not what most people are taught either. Just as someone above mentioned reading Acts... People were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in "KNOWN" languages NOT in unknown jibberish. They were given the ability to speak to those who they were trying to witness to who did not speak their language. This gift was given solely for the proclamation of the gospel. Others were speaking a COUNTERFEIT tongues as well during the early times and that kind of "tongues" is still going on today. It is not from Yahuwah. When the word "tongue" is used in scripture it refers to a language. We can't understand someone who is murmering and jibbering because it is not a language. Don't be fooled so easily. Ask Yahuwah for guidance and understanding of his true word.

 

There is NO substitute or counterfeit for our Heavenly Father and if you go to him humbly and honestly he will not let you down.

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Djorgi - I was hoping someone would bring up the true interpretation of speaking in tongues.

Acts 2:8-11, "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God."

All of the Apostles were from Judea, only Paul having done any real traveling. Only by the Divine power of thE Spirit were they given the ability to speak of the works of God in a language they did not know, but could convey to others.

Many would say I'm not saved because I'm Catholic - and I would answer them with the words of St. Francis of Assissi - "Such was the will of the Father that his Son, blessed and glorious, whom he gave to us, and who was born for us, should by his own blood, sacrifice, and oblation, offer himself on the altar of the cross, not for himself, by whom "all things were made," but for our sins, leaving us an example that we should follow his steps." This, to me, is the directions to the road to salvation - twitter version *LOL*

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I learned something remarkable recently. The real name of God was unutterable except once a year on the day of atonement when the high priest entered the holy of holies where the ark of the covenent rested. YHVH or yod-hey-vav-hey means literally "behold the nail, behold the hand."

Isn't this wonderful?

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Tongues is evidence u have the Hoky Ghost.

You might want to read the book of acts.

Paul said he prays in tongues more than u all.

It's a powerful gift.by the way were u baptized in a Jesus name.

Someone gave you a negative for what you said.  I removed it.  You were just stating your view without understanding mine.  

Acts is filled with examples of individuals hearing, believing, being baptized into Christ.  Each time they were obedient to the Lord's teaching, they received the indwelling of the Spirit but not the speaking in other languages.  There are only three references of people speaking in tongues (Acts 2, 10, and 19).  It was a gift from the Spirit, but it was not the baptism with the Spirit.  The baptism with the Spirit took place only one time in the history of the world, the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2).  When those at the house of Cornelius spoke in tongues and prophesied Paul relates it back to the Day of Pentecost and indicated that what happen then was the giving of the Holy Spirit to "all flesh" and thus He was given to indwell the Gentiles also.  The evidence of that was the gift of tongues and prophesying.  

You might check it out in the book of Acts.  The "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is the promise of the Father.  It was the "pouring forth of the Spirit upon all flesh" by Christ.  There is no "baptism OF the Holy Spirit" in the Bible.  The expression is not in the Bible because it conveys that the Spirit does the baptism, but it is Christ who does the baptizing WITH the Spirit.  

And, YES, it does make a big difference:  one is the giving of the Spirit, while the other is the giving of a gift from the Spirit.  

Shaltagar, every person who comes to Christ in faith and is baptized receives the Spirit.  But not everyone who becomes a child of God speaks in tongues.  It is not necessary for them to do so.  The greater gift is preaching and teaching the gospel. The power in the fruit of love magnifies and glorifies our service to God.   

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Djorgie, I like what you have said.  Good points.  

However, I would take exception with "Being baptized does not get you to Heaven by the way. Just as going to church every SUNday does not either, etc. For the most part those two things as well as many others will actually result in just the opposite because they are not done in truth." 

You related baptism with a work that people do rather than an act of obedient participation with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection (Rm 6:1-11).  Baptism is a one time thing and not a continued activity as worship.  It is faith in the working of God when He removes sin by the circumcision of Christ (Col 2:12-14). Certainly it is not the event that gets us into heaven, but it does get us into Christ (Gal 3:26-29).

But one of the most important elements is the receiving of the Spirit when one is baptized (Acts 2:38-39), for He give the Spirit to all that obey Him (Acts 5:32).  And, without the Spirit, we do not belong to Him (Rm 8:9).  

So baptism is not a work by faith's action in dying and being born again.  

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?http://www.eliyah.com/yahweh.html What do you think?  I'm old school, and Yeshua is

what I use. Anybody read The Book of Enoch?. The Apocrypha is very interesting.

and got a bum rap from a bunch of old men trying to get the church going.Constantine even

deified his father.Mortal men deciding what should be in the bible doesn't cut it. The original writings

are the best...imho

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TONGUES AS BOTH A GIFT AND A SIGN

THIS IS A REPLY TO A FRIEND WHO ASKED ABOUT SPEAKING WITH OTHER TONGUES AND ITS PURPOSE IN SCRIPTURE, TO WHICH I POINTED OUT THAT TONGUES WERE USED BOTH AS A SIGN AND AS A GIFT OF THE SPIRIT.

Hello.

I am glad there is information on the web for tongues. However, I think you fail to refer to Corinthians:14. This letter by Paul to the corinthians is the "guide" on the use of tongues. I do not see where the bible says one must have the gift of tongues. Paul does not say to seek the gift of tongues rather to prophesy.

MY RESPONSE:

Actually, the mention of tongues in 1 Cor 14 is speaking about the gift, as you say, but the tongues in Acts 2:4 is not that gift of tongues, but is evidence one has received God's Spirit -- See also Acts 10:45-46 where you read that tongues told the believers who were already Spirit-filled that these Gentiles now also had the Baptism of the Spirit. Everyone who is Spirit-baptized speaks in tongues as a result. That is something different from the GIFT OF TONGUES which requires an interpretation of the tongues afterwards. Notice that the speaking in tongues in Acts 2:4; 10:45-46 and 19:6 had no interpretation following them, as it is required with the gift of tongues as per 1 Cor 14:13, 27. Nobody interpreted in the instances in Acts, but rather it simply occurred with those who were Spirit filled, and served as evidence that they were Spirit filled.

I am not the only one who promotes this idea. I do not agree with the Roman Catholic Church and its doctrines, but even St. Chrysostom, a favorite Catholic Church Father, concluded:

"Whoever was baptized in Apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues; they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for he is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of his enemy. It thus made manifest to them that they were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking."

Here is some info on my page written by Ross Drysdale on the subject, http://mikeblume.com/drysd22a.htm :

Pentecostal people have long pointed out, based on scriptural comparison, that there is a difference in tongues as a "gift," and tongues as a "sign." Though in essence, in both cases the speaking in tongues is the same as to function; but as to purpose, it is different. Commentators who are not Pentecostal have noticed this also, but have tried to resolve this apparent difference between the tongues mentioned in Acts and those mentioned in 1 Corinthians by denying the validity of the Corinthian tongues. This, of course, is a false premise, for Paul himself never denied the validity of the Corinthians' tongues, but rather endorsed them as genuine (I Cor. 14:2, 39), however, in need of proper control (1 Cor. 14:32).

The differences between the initial evidence, mentioned in Acts, and the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians are self evident. In Acts all spoke in tongues, and in all cases did so at the same time (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6); there was no interpretation of tongues; the speakers exercised the tongues at the time of their conversion; and none occurred during a Christian Church service. However, in 1 Corinthians 14, Paul tells us, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that the following rules must be obeyed: all may not speak at the same time (1 Cor. 14:27), there should be no more than two or three, and they must speak in turn (1 Cor. 14:27), and all these utterances must be interpreted (1 Cor. 14:28). Furthermore, the Corinthian tongues occur in Christian Church services, and among believers after their conversion experience. If the tongues in Acts are the same as the Corinthian gift of tongues, then we have the Holy Spirit violating His own rules -- for in Acts there is mass, simultaneous speaking and no attempt at interpretation or control. This is forbidden in the Corinthian meetings. The only conclusion, both logical and scriptural, is that there is a different purpose to the tongues in Acts, than those in 1 Corinthians.

Why should Pentecostals be considered poor exegetes for maintaining tongues are both a subsequent gift and a sign of Spirit Baptism? Didn't Paul also speak of tongues as a "sign" (1 Cor. 14:22) as well as a "gift" (1 Cor. 12:4, 10)? He certainly did. Jesus Himself spoke of tongues as a "sign" to follow true believers (Mark 16:17).

Read the rest of it at, once again, drysd22a.htm

Thanks for your correspondence!

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Nelg,

 

Agreed... and I was talking about the physical act of baptism only, which if done in truth is representative of the spiritual baptism.

 

Obviously man does not naturally posses eternal life. He must be reborn through Yahushua. This is where spiritual baptism takes place... and actually we can say that baptism represents two things... one being, Yahushua's death, burial and resurrection. The other being, our spiritual death to sin, a burial of our old nature and our spiritual resurrection.

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There are three major harvest feasts commemorated by God's people. Passover, pentecost, and tabernacles. Two have been fulfilled, whike the last is seeing its fulfillment today as we begin truly dwelling I His love and taking rest from our own labors. When God cautioned us not to make any graven images, He was really admonishing us not to continue celebrating yesterday's revelation at the cost of the greater glory He desires to share with us today. He desires a people who will dwell with Him fully. We need always to be ready to hear His voice and do what He tells us. This is the relationship that we will be desiring as well, when He has revealed Himself in each of us.

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Tongues is evidence u have the Hoky Ghost.You might want to read the book of acts.Paul said he prays in tongues more than u all.It's a powerful gift.by the way were u baptized in a Jesus name.

You know I've never spoken in tongues though I believe in it. But your statement

About Paul's scripture reminded me something that the Holy Spirit told me while

I was in north Dakota.

I would rather speak 5 words by the power of the Holy Spirit, then ten thousand

words by my own understanding.

And those 5 words. ..........................

YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

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