Phil Robertson demonized LGBT people in 2010 sermon: ‘They invent ways of doing evil’

[easy]

How would you know - "Weapon X" IS an atheist and since you are the same person that makes you one too!

Don't even begin to tell me that you have studied the word of God. You only pick and choose verses that suit your agenda.

You tell'im granny. Wonder why this post get him all knotted up

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Be very careful what you wish for, YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT!

As to why this has him worked up, it's not really him but the demon that controls

him that is so worked up. "For we fight not against flesh and blood, but powers and

Principalities".powerful demons simply can't stand the word of God.

[dinar_stud]

Oh So you want physical proof?  A writing or mention from an ancient historian isn't good enough for you?  Or the historical writings of the apostles being executed isn't enough either?  I guess you want Jesus to come down and give you a great big hug and perform some miracles for you?  Would that be enough?  What does God have to do to prove to you that Jesus was his Son and that he died for your sins?

 

-

 

Since there is no mention of his existence outside of the bible, I can deduct he did not exist, but i will wait here til you can provide that proof and give you the benefit of the doubt. is the hug thing, something like Santa Claus coming down a chimney and leaving gifts?? Or is you trying to be sarcastic??? 

 

What would be enough?? Proof, physical irrevocable evidence that he did exist. Anything in black and white or etched in stone, like the evidence about Pontius Pilate. I dont have the luxury of faith, I cannot hope proof appears and til that happens, which could be like never, believe in fairy tales. 

 

He would not do miracles since it would go against his supposed teachings 

 

Miraculous gifts will cease, but faith, hope, and love will abide ( 1 Cor. 13:8,13).

 

 

Keep trying. Those that prefer stories over hard proof will believe you.

 Your ignorance is underwhelming...

 

Ignorance?? How about proven facts. 

 

How is it ignorant,when up to 325 AD there were hundreds of christian sects, very single one of them using different books and "scriptures" to propagate the word and their beliefs. How is it ignorant when many books used prior to the Council of Nicea were dicscarded because they went against the male dominated society prime example The Acts of Paul and Thecla,and the Apocalypse according to Peter??

 

Ignorance?? I dont think so, because the information is out there and it has been out there for all to see for a long time.

 

You say ignorance, but you do not debunk the claim that a Pagan Roman Emperor reunited religious men and gave them the explicit instructions to come up with a book yo "unify" his kingdom. God inspired??? i dont think so. Keep trying.

Edited December 22, 2013 by dinar_stud

[dog53]

Hmmmm I thought this post was about phil Robertson.

Doest matter if you didnt like what phil preach stud. Bottom line he has the right to express however he feels and what ever his faith directs him to say.

Just as you have the right to judge his sermon right or wrong.

Also by the venomous way you have reacted to this. I think I might now know why there`s a bug in your bonnt.

You are G** arnt you.

Yep  thats it you are G** 

and thats ok studly I dont have a problem with it.

Like phil says live and let live

Edited December 22, 2013 by dog53

[dontlop]

Only spot on for those that believe blindly in a book written by men over 2000 years ago, a book that was compiled by men over 1500 years ago by the orders of a pagan, roman emperor. A book that left out so much becaue they went away from the notions of the times.  He is spot on?? I dont think so.

And we been hearing this crap out of people like you ever since it was written

Maybe you can explain the mark of the beast to us

You know

The bar code

The one that eventually if you don't accept your mark you won't be able to buy or sell anything

There won't be any cash

Just your mark

So explain how they saw the future and described this mark when they didn't know what a computer was

They didn't use electricity back then

But they knew and wrote about that mark

It's just a simple computer strip that will be imbedded in future generations hands or foreheads for govt hitler like control purposes

How did they know 2000 years ago unless god told them

The evidence is here

Its on every item forsale

Were using cards for now but slowly but surely your computer strip will be installed

Or you can choose not to have one but then you won't be able to buy or sell anything

Explain to us how they knew Ben Franklin would fly a kite lightning would strike they would harness electricity and advance that to computer stages of electronics and have these bar codes everywhere

The bible says 1000 years is like one day and one day is like 1000 years

On the third day Christ will rise

2000 years is up

Were on the third day now "possibly" yet you condemn something you know nothing about

Oh it's still early in the morning of that third day

Only in the first few minutes in gods time frame

What will you say when it begins

Oh forgive me god

I'm sorry ?

To repent means to admit your wrong and never do it again

It's your choice of course

[dinar_stud]

 

 

 

he Jewish historian Flavius Josephus

Flavius Josephus was a Jewish historian. He wrote around the end of the first century AD, and his two most significant works were the 'Jewish War' and the 'Antiquities of the Jews'.

 

Josephus was born around 37 AD, and became a Pharisee. He then joined the zealots who rebelled against Roman rule between 66 and 74AD, becoming a leader of their forces in Galilee, and living through the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. He was captured by the Romans, and would have been executed, but he went over to them.

 

Josephus became the Roman emperor's adviser on Jewish affairs, and died in about 98 AD. 'Josephus' was his Jewish name, and he took the name 'Flavius' in honour of the family of his imperial sponsor. His 'Jewish War' was largely based on his first-hand experiences. It focuses on the period AD 66 to 73. 'Antiquities of the Jews' covers the whole of history up to AD 66. Out of twenty books, six cover the period from the reign of Herod the Great to AD 66 - i.e. the period when Jesus lived.

 

In his writings, Josephus mentions the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. He mentions Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, Jesus (twice) and James the brother of Jesus. He also mentions the Essenes - the strict religious sect within Judaism that founded the Qumran community, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. In fact, Josephus says that he spent some time with the Essenes. This is how he describes it (Cited by Carsten Peter Thiede in 'The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Jewish origins of Christianity.'):

 

When I was about sixteen, I wanted to gain first-hand experience of our different movements. There are three: first, the Pharisees, second the Sadducees, and third the Essenes - as I have noted frequently. I thought I would be able to choose the best, by learning about all these schools. Thus I steeled myself for the task and studied the three courses with some effort.

In book 18 of the Antiquities, 63-64, the text of Josephus as we have it today says:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it is lawful to call him a man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the prophets of God had foretold these and ten thousand other wonders about him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.'

 

In fact, this text is a bit too much of a good thing for our purposes. It seems unlikely that a Jew such as Josephus would have written some of the things in this passage. Most scholars today agree that it has been altered by early Christians seeking to 'improve' it. It seems more likely that Josephus originally wrote something like this:

 

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.'

 

Even without the questionable additions, notice what this passage tells us about Jesus:

• He was a real historical person
• He was a teacher
• He was a worker of wonders (miracles)
• He gathered a band of followers, who continued to follow him after his death.

However, there is a second reference to Jesus in the works of Josephus. In Antiquities 20.200, he describes how, in AD 62, the high priest Ananus was deposed because he had illegally

convened the Sanhedrin [the highest Jewish religious court / governing body]. He had brought before them the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, who was called James, and some other men, whom he accused of having broken the law, and handed them over to be stoned.

 

Notice the following points from this quotation from Josephus:

• Jesus had a brother called James
• James was executed by the Jewish leaders in AD 62
• There were claims that Jesus was the Messiah (that is, the Christ).

There is one other important point to notice from this quotation. Most scholars do not doubt the authenticity of this second reference to Jesus. Yet this passage refers to Jesus as the 'so-called Christ'. This brief comment appears to link back to Josephus' earlier reference to Jesus, and may even show that what he originally wrote there included some such comment as 'Jesus the so-called Christ.' Several of the books listed include some discussion of these passages from Josephus.

 

 

Despite the best wishes of sincere believers and the erroneous claims of truculent apologists, the Testimonium Flavianum has been demonstrated continually over the centuries to be a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius in the fourth century. So thorough and universal has been this debunking that very few scholars of repute continued to cite the passage after the turn of the 19th century. Indeed, the TF was rarely mentioned, except to note that it was a forgery, and numerous books by a variety of authorities over a period of 200 or so years basically took it for granted that the Testimonium Flavianum in its entirety was spurious, an interpolation and a forgery. As Dr. Gordon Stein relates:

 

"...the vast majority of scholars since the early 1800s have said that this quotation is not by Josephus, but rather is a later Christian insertion in his works. In other words, it is a forgery, rejected by scholars."

 

So well understood was this fact of forgery that these numerous authorities did not spend their precious time and space rehashing the arguments against the TF's authenticity. Nevertheless, in the past few decades apologists of questionable integrity and credibility have glommed onto the TF, because this short and dubious passage represents the most "concrete" secular, non-biblical reference to a man who purportedly shook up the world. In spite of the past debunking, the debate is currently confined to those who think the TF was original to Josephus but was Christianized, and those who credulously and self-servingly accept it as "genuine" in its entirety.

 

To repeat, this passage was so completely dissected by scholars of high repute and standing--the majority of them pious Christians--that it was for decades understood by subsequent scholars as having been proved in toto a forgery, such that these succeeding scholars did not even mention it, unless to acknowledge it as false. (In addition to being repetitious, numerous quotes will be presented here, because a strong show of rational consensus is desperately needed when it comes to matters of blind, unscientific and irrational faith.) The scholars who so conclusively proved the TF a forgery made their mark at the end of the 18th century and into the 20th, when a sudden reversal was implemented, with popular opinion hemming and hawing its way back first to the "partial interpolation theory" and in recent times, among the third-rate apologists, to the notion that the whole TF is "genuine." As Earl Doherty says, in "Josephus Unbound":

 

"Now, it is a curious fact that older generations of scholars had no trouble dismissing this entire passage as a Christian construction. Charles Guignebert, for example, in his Jesus (1956, p.17), calls it 'a pure Christian forgery.' Before him, Lardner, Harnack and Schurer, along with others, declared it entirely spurious. Today, most serious scholars have decided the passage is a mix: original parts rubbing shoulders with later Christian additions."

 

The earlier scholarship that proved the entire TF to be fraudulent was determined by intense scrutiny by some of the most erudite, and mainly Christian, writers of the time, in a number of countries, their works written in a variety of languages, but particularly German, French and English. Their general conclusions, as elucidated by Christian authority Dr. Lardner, and related here by the author of Christian Mythology Unveiled (c. 1842), include the following reasons for doubting the authenticity of the TF as a whole:

"Mattathias, the father of Josephus, must have been a witness to the miracles which are said to have been performed by Jesus, and Josephus was born within two years after the crucifixion, yet in all the works he says nothing whatever about the life or death of Jesus Christ; as for the interpolated passage it is now universally acknowledged to be a forgery. The arguments of the 'Christian Ajax,' even Lardner himself, against it are these: 'It was never quoted by any of our Christian ancestors before Eusebius. It disturbs the narrative. The language is quite Christian. It is not quoted by Chrysostom, though he often refers to Josephus, and could not have omitted quoting it had it been then in the text. It is not quoted by Photius [9th century], though he has three articles concerning Josephus; and this author expressly states that this historian has not taken the least notice of Christ. Neither Justin Martyr, in his dialogue with Trypho the Jew; nor Clemens Alexandrinus, who made so many extracts from ancient authors; nor Origen against Celsus, have ever mentioned this testimony. But, on the contrary, in chap. 25th of the first book of that work, Origen openly affirms that Josephus, who had mentioned John the Baptist, did not acknowledge Christ. That this passage is a false fabrication is admitted by Ittigius, Blondel, Le Clerc, Vandale, Bishop Warburton, and Tanaquil Faber.'" (CMU, 47)

Hence, by the 1840's, when the anonymous author of Christian Mythology Unveiled wrote, the Testimonium Flavanium was already "universally acknowledged to be a forgery."

 

The pertinent remarks by the highly significant Church father Origen (c. 185-c.254) appear in his Contra Celsus, Book I, Chapter XLVII:

"For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people, since they put to death Christ, who was a prophet, says nevertheless--being, although against his will, not far from the truth--that these disasters happened to the Jews as a punishment for the death of James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus (called Christ)--the Jews having put him to death, although he was a man most distinguished for his justice" (Emphasis added)

Here, in Origen's words, is the assertion that Josephus, who discusses more than a dozen Jesuses, did not consider any of them to be "the Christ." This fact proves that the same phrase in the TF is spurious. Furthermore, Origen does not even intimate the presence of the rest of the TF. Concerning Origen and the TF, Arthur Drews relates in Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus:

"In the edition of Origen published by the Benedictines it is said that there was no mention of Jesus at all in Josephus before the time of Eusebius [c. 300 ce]. Moreover, in the sixteenth century Vossius had a manuscript of the text of Josephus in which there was not a word about Jesus. It seems, therefore, that the passage must have been an interpolation, whether it was subsequently modified or not." (Drews, 9; emph. added)

According to the author of Christian Mythology Unveiled ("CMU"), this Vossius mentioned by a number of writers as having possessed a copy of Josephus's Antiquities lacking the TF is "I. Vossius," whose works appeared in Latin. Unfortunately, none of these writers includes a citation as to where exactly the assertion may be found in Vossius's works. Moreover, the Vossius in question seems to be Gerardus, rather than his son, Isaac, who was born in the seventeenth century.

 

Church Fathers Ignorant of Josephus Passage

In any event, as G.A. Wells points out in The Jesus Myth, not only do several Church fathers from the second, third and early fourth centuries have no apparent knowledge of the TF, but even after Eusebius suddenly "found" it in the first half of the fourth century, several other fathers into the fifth "often cite Josephus, but not this passage." (Wells, JM, 202) In the 5th century, Church father Jerome (c. 347-c.419) cited the TF once, with obvious disinterest, as if he knew it was fraudulent. In addition to his reference to the TF, in his Letter XXII. to Eustochium, Jerome made the following audacious claim:

"Josephus, himself a Jewish writer, asserts that at the Lord's crucifixion there broke from the temple voices of heavenly powers, saying: 'Let us depart hence.'"

Either Jerome fabricated this alleged Josephus quote, or he possessed a unique copy of the Jewish historian's works, in which this assertion had earlier been interpolated. In any case, Jerome's claim constitutes "pious fraud," one of many committed by Christian proponents over the centuries, a rampant practice, in fact, that must be kept in mind when considering the authenticity of the TF.

Following is a list of important Christian authorities who studied and/or mentioned Josephus but not the Jesus passage:

• Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165), who obviously pored over Josephus's works, makes no mention of the TF.
• Theophilus (d. 180), Bishop of Antioch--no mention of the TF.
• Irenaeus (c. 120/140-c. 200/203), saint and compiler of the New Testament, has not a word about the TF.
• Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-211/215), influential Greek theologian and prolific Christian writer, head of the Alexandrian school, says nothing about the TF.
• Origen (c. 185-c. 254), no mention of the TF and specifically states that Josephus did not believe Jesus was "the Christ."
• Hippolytus (c. 170-c. 235), saint and martyr, nothing about the TF.
• The author of the ancient Syriac text, "History of Armenia," refers to Josephus but not the TF.
• Minucius Felix (d. c. 250), lawyer and Christian convert--no mention of the TF.
• Anatolius (230-c. 270/280)--no mention of TF.
• Chrysostom (c. 347-407), saint and Syrian prelate, not a word about the TF.
• Methodius, saint of the 9th century--even at this late date there were apparently copies of Josephus without the TF, as Methodius makes no mention of it.
• Photius (c. 820-891), Patriarch of Constantinople, not a word about the TF, again indicating copies of Josephus devoid of the passage, or, perhaps, a rejection of it because it was understood to be fraudulent.

Arguments Against Authenticity Further Elucidated

When the evidence is scientifically examined, it becomes clear that the entire Josephus passage regarding Jesus was forged, likely by Church historian Eusebius, during the fourth century. In "Who on Earth was Jesus Christ?" David Taylor details the reasons why the TF in toto must be deemed a forgery, most of which arguments, again, were put forth by Dr. Lardner:

• "It was not quoted or referred to by any Christian apologists prior to Eusebius, c. 316 ad.
• "Nowhere else in his voluminous works does Josephus use the word 'Christ,' except in the passage which refers to James 'the brother of Jesus who was called Christ' (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 20, Chapter 9, Paragraph 1), which is also considered to be a forgery.
• "Since Josephus was not a Christian but an orthodox Jew, it is impossible that he should have believed or written that Jesus was the Christ or used the words 'if it be lawful to call him a man,' which imply the Christian belief in Jesus' divinity.
• "The extraordinary character of the things related in the passage--of a man who is apparently more than a man, and who rose from the grave after being dead for three days--demanded a more extensive treatment by Josephus, which would undoubtedly have been forthcoming if he had been its author.
• "The passage interrupts the narrative, which would flow more naturally if the passage were left out entirely.
• "It is not quoted by Chrysostom (c. 354-407 ad) even though he often refers to Josephus in his voluminous writings.
• "It is not quoted by Photius, Patriarch of Constantinople (c. 858-886 ad) even though he wrote three articles concerning Josephus, which strongly implies that his copy of Josephus' Antiquities did not contain the passage.
• "Neither Justin Martyr (110-165 AD), nor Clement of Alexandria (153-217 ad), nor Origen (c.185-254 AD), who all made extensive reference to ancient authors in their defence of Christianity, has mentioned this supposed testimony of Josephus.
• "Origen, in his treatise Against Celsus, Book 1, Chapter 47, states categorically that Josephus did NOT believe that Jesus was the Christ.
• "This is the only reference to the Christians in the works of Josephus. If it were genuine, we would have expected him to have given us a fuller account of them somewhere."

When the earliest Greek texts are analyzed, it is obvious that the Testimonium Flavianum interrupts the flow of the primary material and that the style of the language is different from that of Josephus. There is other evidence that the TF never appeared in the original Josephus. As Wells says:

"As I noted in The Jesus Legend, there is an ancient table of contents in the Antiquities which omits all mention of the Testimonium. Feldman (in Feldman and Hata, 1987, p. 57) says that this table is already mentioned in the fifth- or sixth-century Latin version of the Antiquities, and he finds it 'hard to believe that such a remarkable passage would be omitted by anyone, let alone by a Christian summarizing the work.'" (Wells, JM, 201)

Also, Josephus goes into long detail about the lives of numerous personages of relatively little import, including several Jesuses. It is inconceivable that he would devote only a few sentences to someone even remotely resembling the character found in the New Testament. If the gospel tale constituted "history," Josephus's elders would certainly be aware of Jesus's purported assault on the temple, for example, and the historian, who was obviously interested in instances of messianic agitation, would surely have reported it, in detail. Moreover, the TF refers to Jesus as a "wise man"--this phrase is used by Josephus in regard to only two other people, out of hundreds, i.e., the patriarchs Joseph and Solomon. If Josephus had thought so highly of an historical Jesus, he surely would have written more extensively about him. Yet, he does not. Lest it be suggested that Josephus somehow could have been ignorant of the events in question, the Catholic Encyclopedia ("Flavius Josephus") says:

"... Josephus...was chosen by the Sanhedrin at Jerusalem to be commander-in-chief in Galilee. As such he established in every city throughout the country a council of judges, the members of which were recruited from those who shared his political views."

Indeed, Josephus was a well-educated Jew who lived in the precise area where the gospel tale was said to have taken place, as did his parents, the latter at the very time of Christ's alleged advent. It was Josephus's passion to study the Jewish people and their history; yet, other than the obviously bogus TF, and the brief "James passage" mentioned by Taylor above, it turns out that in his voluminous works Josephus discussed neither Christ nor Christianity. Nor does it make any sense that the prolific Jewish writer would not detail the Christian movement itself, were Christians extant at the time in any significant numbers.

The Catholic Encyclopedia (CE), which tries to hedge its bet about the Josephus passage, is nevertheless forced to admit: "The passage seems to suffer from repeated interpolations." In the same entry, CE also confirms that Josephus's writings were used extensively by the early Christian fathers, such as Jerome, Ambrose and Chrystostom; nevertheless, as noted, except for Jerome, they never mention the TF.

Regarding the TF, as well as the James passage, which possesses the phrase James, the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, Jewish writer ben Yehoshua makes some interesting assertions:

"Neither of these passages is found in the original version of the Jewish Antiquities which was preserved by the Jews. The first passage (XVII, 3, 3) was quoted by Eusebius writing in c. 320 C.E., so we can conclude that it was added in some time between the time Christians got hold of the Jewish Antiquities and c. 320 C.E. It is not known when the other passage (XX, 9, 1) was added... Neither passage is based on any reliable sources. It is fraudulent to claim that these passages were written by Josephus and that they provide evidence for Jesus. They were written by Christian redactors and were based purely on Christian belief."

Yehoshua claims that the 12th century historian Gerald of Wales related that a "Master Robert of the Priory of St. Frideswide at Oxford examined many Hebrew copies of Josephus and did not find the 'testimony about Christ,' except for two manuscripts where it appeared [to Robert, evidently] that the testimony had been present but scratched out." Yehoshua states that, since "scratching out" requires the removal of the top layers, the deleted areas in these mere two of the many copies likely did not provide any solid evidence that it was the TF that had been removed. Apologists will no doubt insist that these Hebrew texts are late copies and that Jewish authorities had the TF removed. This accusation of mutilating an author's work, of course, can easily be turned around on the Christians. Also, considering that Vossius purportedly possessed a copy of the Antiquities without the TF, it is quite possible that there were "many Hebrew copies" likewise devoid of the passage.

Higher Criticism by Christian Authorities  

The many reasons for concluding the Josephus passage to be a forgery have been expounded upon by numerous well-respected authorities, so much so that such individuals have been compelled by honesty and integrity to dismiss the Testimonium in toto as a forgery. In The Christ, John Remsburg relates the opinions of critics of the TF from the past couple of centuries, the majority of whom were Christian authorities, including and especially Dr. Lardner, who said:

 

"A testimony so favorable to Jesus in the works of Josephus, who lived so soon after our Savior, who was so well acquainted with the transactions of his own country, who had received so many favors from Vespasian and Titus, would not be overlooked or neglected by any Christian apologist (Lardner's Works, vol. I, chap. iv)."

 

Yet, the TF was overlooked and neglected by early Christian writers. In other words, they never cited it because it didn't exist.

Another authority, Bishop Warburton, called the TF a "rank forgery, and a very stupid one, too." Remsburg further related the words of the "Rev. Dr. Giles, of the Established Church of England," who stated:

"Those who are best acquainted with the character of Josephus, and the style of his writings, have no hesitation in condemning this passage as a forgery, interpolated in the text during the third century by some pious Christian, who was scandalized that so famous a writer as Josephus should have taken no notice of the gospels, or of Christ, their subject...."

In addition, the Rev. S. Baring-Gould remarked:

"This passage is first quoted by Eusebius (fl. A.D. 315) in two places (Hist. Eccl., lib. I, c. xi; Demonst. Evang., lib. iii); but it was unknown to Justin Martyr (fl. A.D. 140), Clement of Alexandria (fl. A.D. 192), Tertullian (fl. A.D. 193), and Origen (fl. A.D. 230). Such a testimony would certainly have been produced by Justin in his apology or in his controversy with Trypho the Jew, had it existed in the copies of Josephus at his time. The silence of Origen is still more significant. Celsus, in his book against Christianity, introduces a Jew. Origen attacks the argument of Celsus and his Jew. He could not have failed to quote the words of Josephus, whose writings he knew, had the passage existed in the genuine text. He, indeed, distinctly affirms that Josephus did not believe in Christ (Contr. Cels. I)."

Remsburg also recounts:

"Cannon Farrar, who has written an ablest Christian life of Christ yet penned, repudiates it. He says: 'The single passage in which he [Josephus] alludes to him is interpolated, if not wholly spurious' (

Life of Christ

, Vol. I, p. 46).

"The following, from Dr. Farrar's pen, is to be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica: 'That Josephus wrote the whole passage as it now stands no sane critic can believe.'"

And so on, with similar opinions by Christian scholars such as Theodor Keim, Rev. Dr. Hooykaas and Dr. Alexander Campbell. By the time of Dr. Chalmers and others, the TF had been so discredited that these authorities understood it as a forgery in toto and did not even consider it for a moment as "evidence" of Jesus's existence and/or divinity. In fact, these subsequent defenders of the faith, knowing the TF to be a forgery, repeatedly commented on how disturbing it was that Josephus did not mention Jesus.

In the modern apologist work The Case for Christ, Lee Strobel relates a passage from a novel published in 1979 by Charles Templeton, in which the author states, regarding Jesus, "There isn't a single word about him in secular history. Not a word. No mention of him by the Romans. Not so much as a reference by Josephus." (Strobel, 101) Strobel then reports the response by Christian professor Edwin Yamauchi, who claimed that Templeton was mistaken and that there was a reference to Jesus by Josephus. Yamauchi's fatuous response ignores, purposefully or otherwise, the previous ironclad arguments about which Templeton was apparently educated, such that he made such a statement. In other words, Templeton was evidently aware of the purported reference in Josephus but had understood by the arguments of the more erudite, earlier Christian authorities that it was a forgery; hence, there is "not so much as a reference by Josephus." In this facile manner of merely ignoring or dismissing the earlier scholarship, modern believers cling to the long-dismissed TF in order to convince themselves of the unbelievable.

For a more modern criticism, in The Jesus Puzzle and his online article "Josephus Unbound," secularist and classicist Earl Doherty leaves no stone unturned in demolishing the TF, permitting no squirming room for future apologists, whose resort to the TF will show, as it has done in the past, how hopeless is their plight in establishing an "historical Jesus." Concerning the use of Josephus as "evidence" of Jesus's existence, Doherty remarks:

"

n the absence of any other supporting evidence from the first century that in fact the Jesus of Nazareth portrayed in the Gospels clearly existed, Josephus becomes the slender thread by which such an assumption hangs. And the sound and fury and desperate manoeuverings which surround the dissection of those two little passages becomes a din of astonishing proportions. The obsessive focus on this one uncertain record is necessitated by the fact that the rest of the evidence is so dismal, so contrary to the orthodox picture. If almost everything outside Josephus points in a different direction, to the essential fiction of the Gospel picture and its central figure, how can Josephus be made to bear on his shoulders, through two passages whose reliability has thus far remained unsettled, the counterweight to all this other negative evidence?"

Other modern authors who criticize the TF include The Jesus Mysteries authors Freke and Gandy, who conclude:

"Unable to provide any historical evidence for Jesus, later Christians forged the proof that they so badly needed to shore up their Literalist interpretation of the gospels. This, as we would see repeatedly, was a common practice." (Freke and Gandy, 137)

Despite the desperate din, a number of other modern writers remain in concurrence with the earlier scholarship and likewise consider the TF in toto a fraud.

Conclusion: Josephus No Evidence of Jesus  

Even if the Josephus passage were authentic, which we have essentially proved it not to be, it nevertheless would represent not an eyewitness account but rather a tradition passed along for at least six decades, long after the purported events. Hence, the TF would possess little if any value in establishing an "historical" Jesus. In any event, it is quite clear that the entire passage in Josephus regarding Christ, the Testimonium Flavianum, is spurious, false and a forgery. Regarding the TF, Remsburg summarizes:

"For nearly sixteen hundred years Christians have been citing this passage as a testimonial, not merely to the historical existence, but to the divine character of Jesus Christ. And yet a ranker forgery was never penned....

"Its brevity disproves its authenticity. Josephus' work is voluminous and exhaustive. It comprises twenty books. Whole pages are devoted to petty robbers and obscure seditious leaders. Nearly forty chapters are devoted to the life of a single king. Yet this remarkable being, the greatest product of his race, a being of whom the prophets foretold ten thousand wonderful things, a being greater than any earthly king, is dismissed with a dozen lines...."

The dismissal of the passage in Josephus regarding Jesus is not based on "faith" or "belief" but on intense scientific scrutiny and reasoning. Such investigation has been confirmed repeatedly by numerous scholars who were mostly Christian. The Testimonium Flavianum, Dr. Lardner concluded in none too forceful words, "ought, therefore...to be discarded from any place among the evidences of Christianity." With such outstanding authority and so many scientific reasons, we can at last dispense with the pretentious charade of wondering if the infamous passage in the writings of Josephus called the Testimonium Flavianum is forged and who fabricated it.

Excerpted from Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled by Acharya S.

In simple terms, The Josephus angle has been debunks and proven a fraud a long time ago. 

[George Hayduke]

Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind

John 9 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

6 After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. 7 “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

8 His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, “Isn’t this the same man who used to sit and beg?” 9 Some claimed that he was.

Others said, “No, he only looks like him.”

But he himself insisted, “I am the man.”

10 “How then were your eyes opened?” they asked.

11 He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”

12 “Where is this man?” they asked him.

“I don’t know,” he said.

The Pharisees Investigate the Healing

13 They brought to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. 14 Now the day on which Jesus had made the mud and opened the man’s eyes was a Sabbath. 15 Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. “He put mud on my eyes,” the man replied, “and I washed, and now I see.”

16 Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”

But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

17 Then they turned again to the blind man, “What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened.”

The man replied, “He is a prophet.”

18 They still did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they sent for the man’s parents. 19 “Is this your son?” they asked. “Is this the one you say was born blind? How is it that now he can see?”

20 “We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. 21 But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.” 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders,who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue. 23 That was why his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”

24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God by telling the truth,” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.”

25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”

26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”

27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?”

28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! 29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”

30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. 31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. 32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind.33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”

34 To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.

Spiritual Blindness

35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”

36 “Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”

37 Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”

38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

39 Jesus said,[a] “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.”

40 Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”

41 Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

 

 

Clear enough...?

 

GH

[Artitech]

Phil, said a very true statement in his message there. If you listened to it. He said "all will die". I know this to be true, just my short time hear on earth. I have not met are heard of one person walking or running of this earth with their worldly possesions. You can believe this, are not too. But there will be a time when all men and women will be judged for their actions while they were on this earth as a mortal human being. Jesus gave two very simple comandments to follow. For me and my house we will follow and accept Christ as our Lord & Savior! Now if the ungodly are correct and there is No God or Jesus then no harm no foul Im just dead and nothing to show, but a piece of rock with my name on it, in grave yard. But since I know with out doubt, There is a Heavenly Father Jesus Christ. My prayer is all will accept Jesus, before that last breath here on earth. For those who reject the Good Lord Jesus, you and your god satan will be cast in a bottomless pit of fire and darkness called hell. Like it or not. You can mock it and pretend it doesn't excist but that dont change the truth. Just remember your not on this earth very long and your not guaranteed one second on it either. For men now the average age to die is 75 yrs for women its 80 yrs.thats not very long friends. Do yourself a big favor accept THE GOOD LORD JESUS, you'll be glad you did. Merry Christmas to all and I hope you have a blessed New year!  

[Markinsa]

He would not do miracles since it would go against his supposed teachings 

Miraculous gifts will cease, but faith, hope, and love will abide ( [1 Cor. 13:8,13).

 

 

Oh WOW, you did actually pick and choose the words you wanted to display, in case you forgot that's called taking scripture out of the context of its meaning. 

 

Here, let me do the same thing you just did:

 

 

 

Matthew 27:5 (MSG)

⁵ Judas threw the silver coins into the Temple and left. Then he went out and hung himself.

Luke 10:37 (MSG) ³⁷ ... Jesus said, “Go and do the same.”

 

 

 

This is this full text of the passage:

 

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 (NLT)

 

⁴ Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud ⁵ or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. ⁶ It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. ⁷ Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

⁸ Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! ⁹ Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! ¹⁰ But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.

¹¹ When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. ¹² Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

¹³ Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

 

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 (KJV)

⁴ Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

⁵ Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

⁶ Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

⁷ Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

⁸ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

⁹ For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

¹⁰ But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

¹¹ When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

¹² For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

¹³ And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 -

[dinar_stud]

And we been hearing this crap out of people like you ever since it was written

Maybe you can explain the mark of the beast to us

You know

The bar code

The one that eventually if you don't accept your mark you won't be able to buy or sell anything

There won't be any cash

Just your mark

So explain how they saw the future and described this mark when they didn't know what a computer was

They didn't use electricity back then

But they knew and wrote about that mark

It's just a simple computer strip that will be imbedded in future generations hands or foreheads for govt hitler like control purposes

How did they know 2000 years ago unless god told them

The evidence is here

Its on every item forsale

Were using cards for now but slowly but surely your computer strip will be installed

Or you can choose not to have one but then you won't be able to buy or sell anything

Explain to us how they knew Ben Franklin would fly a kite lightning would strike they would harness electricity and advance that to computer stages of electronics and have these bar codes everywhere

The bible says 1000 years is like one day and one day is like 1000 years

On the third day Christ will rise

2000 years is up

Were on the third day now "possibly" yet you condemn something you know nothing about

Oh it's still early in the morning of that third day

Only in the first few minutes in gods time frame

What will you say when it begins

Oh forgive me god

I'm sorry ?

To repent means to admit your wrong and never do it again

It's your choice of course

 

 

More christian scare tactics to keep the masses controlled.

 

Oh WOW, you did actually pick and choose the words you wanted to display, in case you forgot that's called taking scripture out of the context of its meaning. 

 

Here, let me do the same thing you just did:

 

 

 

Matthew 27:5 (MSG)

⁵ Judas threw the silver coins into the Temple and left. Then he went out and hung himself.

Luke 10:37 (MSG) ³⁷ ... Jesus said, “Go and do the same.”

 

 

 

This is this full text of the passage:

 

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 (NLT)

 

⁴ Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud ⁵ or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. ⁶ It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. ⁷ Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

⁸ Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! ⁹ Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! ¹⁰ But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.

¹¹ When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. ¹² Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

¹³ Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

 

1 Corinthians 13:4-13 (KJV)

⁴ Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

⁵ Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

⁶ Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

⁷ Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

⁸ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

⁹ For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

¹⁰ But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

¹¹ When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

¹² For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

¹³ And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

 -

 

 

All you are proving is that you know your bible/fairy tales. I can recite Goldilocks and the 3 bears and The Hare and the tortoise and still it does not prove Jesus was a real man,

[dontlop]

More christian scare tactics to keep the masses controlled.

I'm not trying to scare you

Simply asking you to explain the mark of the beast and how they knew about it

Surely you see this mark on every piece of merchandise in the market place

How do you think we will get to a cashless society and what is the ultimate solution for prevention of identity theft

An implanted chip?

A chip to make your purchases

A chip to hold your identity your drivers licenses your medical records

Your police records

It's coming

How did they know unless god told those who wrote those books in the bible 2000 years ago when they had no idea what it was so they simply called it a mark

How did they know you couldn't buy or sell without that mark

There is proof if you look for it

The bar code is proof

Google it

I know many say its just made up mumbo jumbo but how did they know ?

This Awareness indicates that the computer as tied into computers in each of the 10 regions of the United States and into those computers in each of the major banks in the major cities; that the local stores, many of these are already tied into those computers within those cities. This Awareness indicates that the plan calls for a crisis to occur whereby all entities will be required to receive a government number. This Awareness indicates that in a short time later, these entities will be tattooed invisible upon their hands or upon their foreheads,--this being on the back of the hand tattooed by a laser beam (or by an implanted microchip under the skin-Ed.). That this tattoo shall then replace the credit card, that entities will be expected to use this number for every purpose, and this number would be their identification from birth until death.

This Awareness indicates that the arguments for this will be that this shall stop crime, that this will speed up service in the supermarkets, that entities will no longer need to receive a payroll check, but shall simply have their payment deposited in their bank account and will never need to write a check but may simply present their number wherever they go and the computers will deduct that purchase from their account.

Edited December 22, 2013 by dontlop

[sportfisher]

 

 

 

Hey stud_muffin, thanks for posting the youtube link, Phil Robertson is right on the money, thanks again. 

Edited December 22, 2013 by sportfisher

[Markinsa]

More christian scare tactics to keep the masses controlled.

All you are proving is that you know your bible/fairy tales. I can recite Goldilocks and the 3 bears and The Hare and the tortoise and still it does not prove Jesus was a real man,

 

I think the more important topic is why is all of this important enough to you, that you feel the need to distort the truth, (omitting the scripture above) about something that you don't believe in.   I mean really, if it's not true, why hide it?  Why not show the lie that it is?

 

Expose the Christian Faith! Com'on Dude! If you could do that, I bet you would win a Nobel Peace Prize like your buddy Obama. Finally once and for all, someone has the truth and they can show the World that Jesus didn't live and was a Fraud.  Wow I mean, WOW, If you could do that you would change the World!  But you know what? You can't, because unfortunately, and fortunately for you, Jesus is REAL. Praise God!  Call on him to save you now!  Now is the time for Salvation!

 

-

[flopear]

Thank you, Phil Robertson for upholding God's Word for all to see in these troubling times.

AMEN!! Give it a rest. People don't like to hear what God says about their sin, so they go after the messenger. Too bad there isn't more like Phil to stand up for whats right. If Gods word offends you, then you probably should stand back and examine how you live your life.

[reveldog]

what dinar stud is trying to ask for is  prayer request 

 

but just quite doesnt know how to go about it 

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Anyone know why Mr. Stud DIDN'T respond when I pointed out the demon

that controls him?

Its because the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he

Doesn't exist.

And the last thing a demon wants is a light shining on it.

Otherwise Mr. Stud might have to consider doing something about it.

[dinar_stud]

I think the more important topic is why is all of this important enough to you, that you feel the need to distort the truth, (omitting the scripture above) about something that you don't believe in.   I mean really, if it's not true, why hide it?  Why not show the lie that it is?

 

Expose the Christian Faith! Com'on Dude! If you could do that, I bet you would win a Nobel Peace Prize like your buddy Obama. Finally once and for all, someone has the truth and they can show the World that Jesus didn't live and was a Fraud.  Wow I mean, WOW, If you could do that you would change the World!  But you know what? You can't, because unfortunately, and fortunately for you, Jesus is REAL. Praise God!  Call on him to save you now!  Now is the time for Salvation!

 

-

 

 Since when is stating facts, distorting truth??

Anyone know why Mr. Stud DIDN'T respond when I pointed out the demon

that controls him?

Its because the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he

Doesn't exist.

And the last thing a demon wants is a light shining on it.

Otherwise Mr. Stud might have to consider doing something about it.

 

 

The what?? You really do believe in fairy tales. Your scare tactics and ancient voodoo dont scare me. And i control myself, no book, mythical creature dominates my life.

Phil, said a very true statement in his message there. If you listened to it. He said "all will die". I know this to be true, just my short time hear on earth. I have not met are heard of one person walking or running of this earth with their worldly possesions. You can believe this, are not too. But there will be a time when all men and women will be judged for their actions while they were on this earth as a mortal human being. Jesus gave two very simple comandments to follow. For me and my house we will follow and accept Christ as our Lord & Savior! Now if the ungodly are correct and there is No God or Jesus then no harm no foul Im just dead and nothing to show, but a piece of rock with my name on it, in grave yard. But since I know with out doubt, There is a Heavenly Father Jesus Christ. My prayer is all will accept Jesus, before that last breath here on earth. For those who reject the Good Lord Jesus, you and your god satan will be cast in a bottomless pit of fire and darkness called hell. Like it or not. You can mock it and pretend it doesn't excist but that dont change the truth. Just remember your not on this earth very long and your not guaranteed one second on it either. For men now the average age to die is 75 yrs for women its 80 yrs.thats not very long friends. Do yourself a big favor accept THE GOOD LORD JESUS, you'll be glad you did. Merry Christmas to all and I hope you have a blessed New year!  

 

 

Everybiody dies. that is a fact known before the bible was written.

Edited December 22, 2013 by dinar_stud

[DiveDeepSix]

Hmmmm I thought this post was about phil Robertson.

Doest matter if you didnt like what phil preach stud. Bottom line he has the right to express however he feels and what ever his faith directs him to say.

Just as you have the right to judge his sermon right or wrong.

Also by the venomous way you have reacted to this. I think I might now know why there`s a bug in your bonnt.

You are G** arnt you.

Yep  thats it you are G** 

and thats ok studly I dont have a problem with it.

Like phil says live and let live

 

That's exactly what I was thinking big dog!   Before I go on, if that is true Stud that is your choice obviously, I won't try and convince you not to do it, don't try and convince me it's the norm! 

 

Bottom line is if homosexuality wasn't an abomination (OBAMANATION) homosexual couples would be able to naturally reproduce, and they can't PERIOD!!  End of story!

 

Here is a simple scenario for ya Studly:

 

You take 100 straight couples and put them on an island.

 

You take 100 male/male couples and put them on an island.

 

You take 100 female/female couples (and myself ) J/K, and put them on an island.

 

After 100 years (I like that number apparently) you go back to the islands, can you guess which group of homo sapiens would still be in existence?  If you said the straight couples..............DING DING DING...............Give that man a     That's right because both islands with homosexual occupants would have become extinct as they can not reproduce.  You should be glad your parents didn't believe like you X or you wouldn't exist!   

Edited December 22, 2013 by DiveDeepSix

[Markinsa]

 Since when is stating facts, distorting truth??

 

 

You flat out eliminated words in that scripture, that gave it a meaning it didn't have.  In my book that makes you a liar and a deceiver, and I won't put any stock in anything you say.  Which or course, I don't do anyway.  Consider the source, that sort of thing.

 

-

[dontlop]

You flat out eliminated words in that scripture, that gave it a meaning it didn't have.  In my book that makes you a liar and a deceiver, and I won't put any stock in anything you say.  Which or course, I don't do anyway.  Consider the source, that sort of thing.  -

He sure did markinsa

[MyLadiesDaddy]

Since when is stating facts, distorting truth??  The what?? You really do believe in fairy tales. Your scare tactics and ancient voodoo dont scare me. And i control myself, no book, mythical creature dominates my life.  Everybiody dies. that is a fact known before the bible was written.

YA THINK SO.

[George Hayduke]

Ignorance?? How about proven facts. 

 

How is it ignorant,when up to 325 AD there were hundreds of christian sects, very single one of them using different books and "scriptures" to propagate the word and their beliefs. How is it ignorant when many books used prior to the Council of Nicea were dicscarded because they went against the male dominated society prime example The Acts of Paul and Thecla,and the Apocalypse according to Peter??

 

Ignorance?? I dont think so, because the information is out there and it has been out there for all to see for a long time.

 

You say ignorance, but you do not debunk the claim that a Pagan Roman Emperor reunited religious men and gave them the explicit instructions to come up with a book yo "unify" his kingdom. God inspired??? i dont think so. Keep trying.

Let me make myself perfectly clear; I am saying you are ignorant in the worst way.  You refuse to acknowledge secular recognition of the historical Jesus because it would challenge you to consider Jesus’ claim to be God.  You offer hysterical and emotional claims with a sophomoric voice in a weak and transparent effort to debunk the truth before your very eyes.  Much like you changed the headline and content of the Maricopa County Supervisors article you posted to suit your agenda, you continue to shoehorn your beliefs into a sad apology for atheism.

 

You need to become familiar with the canonization process of the scriptures before you embarrass yourself further with silly comments such as, “How is it ignorant when many books used prior to the Council of Nicea were dicscarded because they went against the male dominated society prime example The Acts of Paul and Thecla,and the Apocalypse according to Peter??”

 

It's interesting you believe the words of an atheist and religious skeptic written 2,000 years after Christ appeared on this planet yet, you reject first hand eyewitness testimony of persons recorded by non-Christian sources within twenty to one hundred and fifty years after Jesus death. 

 

Hmmm. Okay, so you hang your hat on one atheist PHD author who you believe has turned the whole Christian historical record on its head by debunking Josephus but, you forgot about other non-Christian sources such as Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallus, and the Jewish Talmud.   But then again, your posts have never been about true and balanced argumentation have they?  And, they aren’t even so much about your personal world view than they are exercises of mockery directed at Christians and their fairytale beliefs.  That seems kind of hurtful dosn’t it?  Me thinks it’s even hateful… wait a minute… say it’s not so but I think you’ve been ‘bashing’ Christians.  You don’t hate Christ and His worshipers, do you?

 

At any rate, if you choose to reject Christ as God who lived as a man and died and was resurrected for you that is up to you but, save us from your silly reasons and challenges and, for brevity sake just admit you love yourself more than you do the Kings of kings. 

 

After all, don't you think honesty is always the best policy even if it’s in a male dominated world?

 

GH

[jonjon]

Trying to appease the sodomites will be impossible; nothing that defies the natural laws of life can be harmonious.

[dog53]

he he  he

jon jon said sodomites 

[Markinsa]

Isaiah 53 (NLT)

 

53 Who has believed our message?
    To whom has the Lord revealed his powerful arm?
² My servant grew up in the Lord’s presence like a tender green shoot,
    like a root in dry ground.
There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,
    nothing to attract us to him.
³ He was despised and rejected—
    a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief.
We turned our backs on him and looked the other way.
    He was despised, and we did not care.

⁴ Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
    it was our sorrows that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
    a punishment for his own sins!
⁵ But he was pierced for our rebellion,
    crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
    He was whipped so we could be healed.
⁶ All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.
    We have left God’s paths to follow our own.
Yet the Lord laid on him
    the sins of us all.

⁷ He was oppressed and treated harshly,
    yet he never said a word.
He was led like a lamb to the slaughter.
    And as a sheep is silent before the shearers,
    he did not open his mouth.
⁸ Unjustly condemned,
    he was led away.
No one cared that he died without descendants,
    that his life was cut short in midstream.
But he was struck down
    for the rebellion of my people.
⁹ He had done no wrong
    and had never deceived anyone.
But he was buried like a criminal;
    he was put in a rich man’s grave.

¹⁰ But it was the Lord’s good plan to crush him
    and cause him grief.
Yet when his life is made an offering for sin,
    he will have many descendants.
He will enjoy a long life,
    and the Lord’s good plan will prosper in his hands.
¹¹ When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish,
    he will be satisfied.
And because of his experience,
    my righteous servant will make it possible
for many to be counted righteous,
    for he will bear all their sins.
¹² I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier,
    because he exposed himself to death.
He was counted among the rebels.
    He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels.

 

-