Big Love?

[Maggie123]

This has been my passion for a very long time... 12 year olds married to old farts?

 

How can all us gals and good men allow this to go on in our own country?

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3032600/#53005764

 

 

Please don't comment unless you took the time to view the video or come from a place of knowing.

 

It is interesting and gobsmacking... if you give a damn.

 

 

Otherwise I don't give a sheite what you say.

 

Hugs Maggie

 

 

[Maggie123]

No one cares... that is why it continues.

 

Sad.

[billio0]

No one cares... that is why it continues.

 

Sad.

 

I care Maggie123!

 

Don't despair.

[Maggie123]

My Heart Hurts.

 

Thank You BillioO.

[Rayzur]

I care  and would guess there are lots of others...  going out on a limb here... I'm going to guess a lot of the other people who care, are probably sleeping at 2 or 3:30 in the morning...?? Bet there's a lot more response in the morning... the part where most people are awake...

The evolution  of a civilization tends to be marked  by its response to those who have no voice...  children among them..... Maybe one day we'll bring the war home, and wage it against that which truly offends the core of all that defines us as a nation of just people...

 

You bring something critical to the table deserving our attention and intervention.... I'm not even sure where we'd begin on this one?

Edited September 15, 2013 by Rayzur

[RodandStaff]

Sorry Maggie... I go to sleep early these days... but get up early... just gotta be patient and wait til the "rest of the DV family" wakes up!!!   

 

This FLDS video hits home... I went to a Bible College with a an older gal who early in her life was a multiple wife (something like one of twenty or so wive's) of a LDS group from Utah... she was held prisoner when she "questioned authority" but miraculously escaped... and it took her several years to basically become "unbrainwashed", and come to an understanding of what the Bible really says... and now she actually helps others "get out".  So yes... this still happens... and yes it's obviously an outrage!!!

 

"But"... not to change the subject but actually expand on this... there is way more "shyatt" going on where unsuspecting folks get duped by some who wish to take advantage of them.  No, not just in the FLDS... but in somewhat mainstream Christianity... or rather in little offshoots of that.  Anyone who twist's the Word to support their own little dogma is doing much the same thing.  I'm sayin' this from experience.  My daughter is involved in a group the takes advantage of her... and as in episode 3 of your post she is taught to "keep sweet", show no anger, and don't ask "why"!!!  That imo is abusive... if someone is not allowed to at least challenge the "dogma" of their group, church, or organization... it might be time to "cut an run" as some folks say and find out what life is really all abouit!!! 

 

Now I might have just opened up a huge can of worms... but this hits home for me... but I have to say... for me, "abuse is abuse" be it of a sexual, physical, verbal, or spiritual nature!!!   It all threatens our freedoms... for without freedom from these abuses it undermines our "freedom" all together.  Sorry bout this Maggie... but to me, this goes way beyond just this particular story... and it really hits home for me like salt on a wound.  What to do????   Heyall if I know???  I would lay down my life or go to jail for my daughter if it would "get her out" (what real parent wouldn't???)... but she is so brainwashed that I don't think even that would "bring her out".   I think sometimes these imo devious folks, know how to use the system to take advantage of our system here in the States.   And it breaks my heart to see this stuff go on and it seems like there is little that can be done to stop the ones who use and abuse they system.    

[dog53]

Yeah mag thats some screwed up shat.

For a people to use god to enslave young women 

and brainwash them from a young age into thinking this is somehow normal 

is disgusting.  How do we as a free nation continue to allow it.

I would use a buggy whip on these elders on main street.

They are no better then the taliban and their sharia law. 

[dog53]

bump

[Maggie123]

Yeah mag thats some screwed up shat.

For a people to use god to enslave young women 

and brainwash them from a young age into thinking this is somehow normal 

is disgusting.  How do we as a free nation continue to allow it.

I would use a buggy whip on these elders on main street.

They are no better then the taliban and their sharia law. 

 

Thank You Dog... I was pretty upset when I posted this. This place is less than 50 miles up the road from me.

 

When I lived in Oregon I knew it existed but it was not in the open for me to see or think about.

 

Since I moved here... I have become much more aware of it... also I have become very aware of how the state of Utah supports this.

 

Warren Jeffs was convicted here but he would not be in jail right now if it were not for the state of Texas...

his conviction was quickly overtuned in Utah. I could not believe it.

 

So many times... I've wanted to bring home the young girls I've seen and try to help them. They are never left unattended by the men or by the older women and if you even smile at the young ones they scowl at you and wisk them away.

 

There have been groups formed here that are trying to help... having the most effect with helping the lost boys...

they don't get any support from anyone with the authority to actually do something about it.

 

I posted this to help raise awareness... seems like it is something that collectively as Americans...we should be doing something about.

The evolution  of a civilization tends to be marked  by its response to those who have no voice...  children among them..... Maybe one day we'll bring the war home, and wage it against that which truly offends the core of all that defines us as a nation of just people...

 

 

Thank You Rayzur... You said what I was trying to say so much better than I did.

[securityguy]

God has a plan. It is painfull to watch all this suffering, but his word says he will put an end to all suffering and pain will be no more. I believe he will and that helps all who believe he will. Just a little while longer.

[umbertino]

I'm unable to watch video ... Tried to but   I only get the dateline  page.....under the  sign " video" nothing comes up... Will try  again later.

[dog53]

The elders talk about a big change that is coming.

that america shall rise again

when it does this nonsense will be stopped

and when it does those responsible shall pay a price.

this is wrong under any god you believe in.

If it was MY daughters or  grand daughters that were being abused like this.

their would be a trail of bodys that would lead right to my door. 

[Markinsa]

RodandStaff, I'm praying for your daughter.

 

Matthew 18:5-7 (NLT)

⁵ “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. ⁶ But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.

⁷ “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting.

 

-

[Nelg]

This type of behavior can be found in almost any person when they are convinced that evil is good, and they are somehow doing the will of God.  We live in a sick, ruthless, and perverted society where we allow something like this to go on for years without acting.  

We have freedom of religion in this country, but when a leader or group crosses the line and sin is found to be of the nature shown in the report, that religion needs to be shut down, the leaders arrested and punished, and those abused rehabilitated if possible.

This angers me beyond belief.  It did when I first heard about it.  I told my wife that this pervert will face an eternal torment in the fires of hell, but I hoped they would make him a eunuch first.  

Thanks for posting this Maggie.  Awareness is the first step in eradication.   

[Maggie123]

I'm unable to watch video ... Tried to but   I only get the dateline  page.....under the  sign " video" nothing comes up... Will try  again later.

I checked it Umbertino and it worked fine for me... maybe give it a minute or two... it should auto load and start for you

 

It is called "Unbreakable"... do you see that a little bit down the page?

 

The elders talk about a big change that is coming.

that america shall rise again

when it does this nonsense will be stopped

and when it does those responsible shall pay a price.

this is wrong under any god you believe in.

If it was MY daughters or  grand daughters that were being abused like this.

their would be a trail of bodys that would lead right to my door. 

 

I like what the elders are saying.

 

I also agree with what you are saying about if it were your daughters or granddaughters... same here.

 

You know I have been equally haunted by an article that Umbertino brought in a while back about a judge taking indian children from their families because the state was getting $70,000 per child in federal funding to do so. I was so heartbroken to see that kind of cruelty still happening... I just didn't know what to say... just wanted you to know that... and that I care deeply about those children too.

 

Time to start speaking up for the children that have no rights or voices that can be heard. We all need to speak up for them.

 

 

 

Thank You Nelg.

[umbertino]

Sorry Maggie... I go to sleep early these days... but get up early... just gotta be patient and wait til the "rest of the DV family" wakes up!!!   

 

This FLDS video hits home... I went to a Bible College with a an older gal who early in her life was a multiple wife (something like one of twenty or so wive's) of a LDS group from Utah... she was held prisoner when she "questioned authority" but miraculously escaped... and it took her several years to basically become "unbrainwashed", and come to an understanding of what the Bible really says... and now she actually helps others "get out".  So yes... this still happens... and yes it's obviously an outrage!!!

 

"But"... not to change the subject but actually expand on this... there is way more "shyatt" going on where unsuspecting folks get duped by some who wish to take advantage of them.  No, not just in the FLDS... but in somewhat mainstream Christianity... or rather in little offshoots of that.  Anyone who twist's the Word to support their own little dogma is doing much the same thing.  I'm sayin' this from experience.  My daughter is involved in a group the takes advantage of her... and as in episode 3 of your post she is taught to "keep sweet", show no anger, and don't ask "why"!!!  That imo is abusive... if someone is not allowed to at least challenge the "dogma" of their group, church, or organization... it might be time to "cut an run" as some folks say and find out what life is really all abouit!!! 

 

Now I might have just opened up a huge can of worms... but this hits home for me... but I have to say... for me, "abuse is abuse" be it of a sexual, physical, verbal, or spiritual nature!!!   It all threatens our freedoms... for without freedom from these abuses it undermines our "freedom" all together.  Sorry bout this Maggie... but to me, this goes way beyond just this particular story... and it really hits home for me like salt on a wound.  What to do????   Heyall if I know???  I would lay down my life or go to jail for my daughter if it would "get her out" (what real parent wouldn't???)... but she is so brainwashed that I don't think even that would "bring her out".   I think sometimes these imo devious folks, know how to use the system to take advantage of our system here in the States.   And it breaks my heart to see this stuff go on and it seems like there is little that can be done to stop the ones who use and abuse they system.    

I'm sorry to hear that Rod... And obviously I agree with you and completely understand.... As you so aptly stated... Abuse is abuse. Be it sexual, verbal, spiritual, mental etc.

 

I have read of such cases in the world and also here in this Country of mine. There were and still are  cases of Jehova Witnesses ( yes we do have them here too) abusing those who rebel  and / or want to get out... Also Scientology abuse cases. And I recall reading about Church congregations where   many times  it happens that men walk  up to a woman and tell her bluntly " you'll become my wife because God told me so...."  They prey on the weaker usually. Sad and should be stopped.

Quote

I checked it Umbertino and it worked fine for me... maybe give it a minute or two... it should auto load and start for you

It is called "Unbreakable"... do you see that a little bit down the page?

End Quote

Thanks... I had to wait a couple of minutes  but it opened at last.

 

Edited September 16, 2013 by umbertino

[umbertino]

It seems I have accidentally plused my above post. Please someone get it even. Thanks.

Edited September 16, 2013 by umbertino

[Nelg]

I'm sorry to hear that Rod... And obviously I agree with you and completely understand.... As you so aptly stated... Abuse is abuse. Be it sexual, verbal, spiritual, mental etc.

 

I have read of such cases in the world and also here in this Country of mine. There were and still are  cases of Jehova Witnesses ( yes we do have them here too) abusing those who rebel  and / or want to get out... Also Scientology abuse cases. And I recall reading about Church congregations where   many times  it happens that men walk  up to a woman and tell her bluntly " you'll become my wife because God told me so...."  They prey on the weaker usually. Sad and should be stopped.

 

In my counseling, I have heard both men and women say that God told them to divorce their spouse and marry this other person.  This is an excuse that many individuals use to get out of a marriage (good or bad) when they meet someone more exciting than their current spouse.  People use the "God card" with ministers a lot thinking that it justifies their decision.  It does not, and most preacher worth their salt will quickly tell the person that it was not God that was talking to them but their own lust and desires.  

Folks, Satan is alive and well and walks around this world seeking those he can devour.  However, most of the evil originates in our own heart, but we like to blame every evil on someone else. GOD NEVER TELLS, CAUSES, OR DEMANDS ANYONE TO DO EVIL!  

[RodandStaff]

I'm sorry to hear that Rod... And obviously I agree with you and completely understand.... As you so aptly stated... Abuse is abuse. Be it sexual, verbal, spiritual, mental etc.

 

I have read of such cases in the world and also here in this Country of mine. There were and still are  cases of Jehova Witnesses ( yes we do have them here too) abusing those who rebel  and / or want to get out... Also Scientology abuse cases. And I recall reading about Church congregations where   many times  it happens that men walk  up to a woman and tell her bluntly " you'll become my wife because God told me so...."  They prey on the weaker usually. Sad and should be stopped.

Thanks Umbertino... I appreciate it... I haven't shared that part of our family much before....but this story hit home for me.  I'm not tryin' to "hijack"  Maggies thread... it just kinda spilled out from my heart.    What you said would be a good "barometer" for what is "cultish" or not... how do they handle it when questioned or if you decide to lead "the fold"... that shows the measure of where there at imo.  

[RodandStaff]

Thanks Umbertino... I appreciate it... I haven't shared that part of our family much before....but this story hit home for me.  I'm not tryin' to "hijack"  Maggies thread... it just kinda spilled out from my heart.    What you said would be a good "barometer" for what is "cultish" or not... how do they handle it when questioned or if you decide to lead "the fold"... that shows the measure of where there at imo.  

...sorry, I meant "leave the fold"!!!   

[Maggie123]

Rod I was glad you contributed!

No way did I think you were hijacking anything... your post was very relevent.

I thought what you said was very true about there being all kinds of abuse out there not just what I was talking about. I have seen people completely brainwashed by Scientology and turn on their own families. I have also seen the devastation in a friend of my daughter's  life when they were in high school... his family disowned him for turning against the JW church and it took him quite a while to process that.

 

I know it must be heartbreaking to try and show your daughter how she is being manipulated and to have her not listen because she has been so brainwashed. I'm very sorry to hear that and I will pray for her to have the strength to open her heart and eyes to what you are saying to her. My own daughter has been influenced by some pretty questionable people but always had the foundation and good sense to pull back in the end. I have no doubt that your daughter has a good foundation as well and with your always being there for her with your support, you have a very good chance that she will pull out of it in due time.

 

Thank You For Sharing From The Heart.

[umbertino]

Thanks Umbertino... I appreciate it... I haven't shared that part of our family much before....but this story hit home for me.  I'm not tryin' to "hijack"  Maggies thread... it just kinda spilled out from my heart.    What you said would be a good "barometer" for what is "cultish" or not... how do they handle it when questioned or if you decide to lead "the fold"... that shows the measure of where there at imo.  

Agreed my Friend.

Thanks Maggie for raising this  important and tragic issue.

[RodandStaff]

Thanks Maggie and Umbertino... that means a lot!!!   

[429]

Maggie, thanks for bringing this topic. It's yet another chance for each of us to realize the evils that are "right under our noses."

The idea of giving an adherent to the faith a young child as a reward is especially abhorrent and despicable. And by his own utterances, Warren Jeffs knew this was evil but perpetrated these actions anyway. He's a pedophile. Period.

But now the "victims." Do they recognize that they're victims? No, sadly they don't. They are living in the beliefs that they've been taught all their lives. And the question that is raised is, at what point do these folks stop being "victims" and start being accomplices? Do the children's parents understand the situation as we see it or do they feel we're persecuting their religious tenets? It's easy for us to say "we're right - they're wrong" but is it as easy for those folks to understand?

Women's Suffrage is not that ancient an idea. The idea of women having equal rights is, unfortunately, a young idea. Polygamy is a very ancient idea. The idea of a woman being the property of a man or her family, equally unfortunately, is a long-standing tradition. And I don't know the easy answer on how to fix this.

If the FLDS believes what these so-called prophets tell them, who am I to judge their religious beliefs or tenets no matter how outlandish? Didn't the Apostle Paul admonish wives to submit to their husbands (Eph 5:22 and Col 3:18)? It is not my belief that this is what Paul meant, but it's not that far a stretch, either. And the only reason that I bring religion into this is because their religion is what these acts are based upon.

It's not that I want to sweep this aside and stick my head in the sand or pull the old Polly Anna deal and say that "since it doesn't effect me today I don't have to worry about it, la, la, la" but I truly don't know the answer.

As much as I revile the thought of young girls being sold or given as wives or mutilated or murdered over a supposed "honor" belief in a far away land; as Rayzur said, we need to fight the war within our own borders, too. We have to get our own house in order, first.

Dang it Maggie, you've forced me to explore what I believe and try to figure out how to right the wrong and fix the bad. Dang it!

429

[Maggie123]

429 Thank You for such a well thought out and kind post. Much Appreciated.

 

I have had all the thoughts you have brought up... believe me every single one of them!

 

More so when I was much further removed from the situation...

as I mentioned I previously lived in OR and we never saw or thought about it much...

Not casting any stones... just the way it was.

 

I moved here and they are all over the place!!! Quite an eye opener for me... at Costco I'd see men in casual jackets and tennis shoes walking with their wives in puff puff hair-dos and prairie dresses and thought "none of my business". Then I got educated by watching and experiencing all the events unfolding in my community. I had never heard of "lost boys"... boys that are banished for being normal teenagers. I watched on our local news the unfolding of a couple of trials... it seemed to me they were NOT prosecuting all involved. Parents? Also seemed to me that AZ and NV were the ones doing the pressuring for UT to DO Something! I think there are obvious reasons for that

 

I'd like to relate an experience I had in a dept. store one day... I am in line to pay and a beautiful young lady, maybe 16 or 17 was in line in front of me, braided hair and a prairie dress. She had a darling little one (less than a year) in her arms and I was playing smilely with him... then I saw a clear red hand print on the side of his face. I was struggling with what to say or do... just shocked... when two older women came and quickly wisked them off. I was haunted by my in-action and played it over and over again just what I could have and should have done. I also realized it was a distinct possibility that this girl could be in a situation that had her feeling a prisoner and totally frustrated...

I know I certainly would be feeling that way if I were her... those ladies did NOT look nice!

 

The documentary that I watched and posted above drove so much home for me. It was heartbreaking to see.

 

 

 

Okay Solutions? I have no idea or I would have offered them up immediatety.

 

Here are just some thoughts...

 

1) Raise Awareness

 

2) Utah could use the laws already in place and prosecute All Violators... Parents Included.

 

3) Continued pressure from people in other states for them to stop marrying under-age girls to old men.

 

4) An Outside Support System for their unque circumstances and needs... These kids are told the "evil people" will get them if they leave.

 

5) End government contracts and financial aid to anyone in those communities... that is how they continue to thrive.

 

6) Not allow mainstream media to make light of and cute... this atrocity... "Sister Wives" & "Big Love".

 

7) Clean up our own back yard before we go out "saving the world".

 

 

Just a few thoughts... I'd certainly love to hear other's ideas.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Maggie123