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What's God got to do with It ?


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If God is the Almighty and he's the one  supposedly  making everything happen for a reason.. Then  the mere existence on Planet Earth of more than just one religion can only be interpreted as a sign of His Will there had to be more than one religion.

And since there are also those who do not believe in any religion then there's another sign of his will .

Umbertino, the first premise of your syllogism is incorrect making the conclusion incorrect.  

God IS Almighty and has the ultimate power to do all things, but He does not "make everything happen for a reason" or because it is His Will. Example: God does not desire that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.  But some will not repent and He does not force them to repent. If it is His will/desire that all repent, why are there some who will not? He has given to His creation, specifically mankind, the ability to choose between alternatives. He did not "will" more than one religion; that was the choice of mankind and not God.  Man's choice has been to go against the will of God and create his own religions.  Rejection of God is also a choice and many individuals make that choice.  It is not God's will, but man's choice.  

To say that God "makes" us do evil, select evil, or make bad choices is a teaching that is not of God.  God is not a tyrant to force His Will upon an individual.  His Will is for all to be saved through Christ, which is predetermined.  His Will is that an individual choose to have faith in Christ to obtain that salvation.  The alternative choice is eternal destruction from the presence of God.  The choice remains with the individual.  

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Umbertino, the first premise of your syllogism is incorrect making the conclusion incorrect.  

God IS Almighty and has the ultimate power to do all things, but He does not "make everything happen for a reason" or because it is His Will. Example: God does not desire that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.  But some will not repent and He does not force them to repent. If it is His will/desire that all repent, why are there some who will not? He has given to His creation, specifically mankind, the ability to choose between alternatives. He did not "will" more than one religion; that was the choice of mankind and not God.  Man's choice has been to go against the will of God and create his own religions.  Rejection of God is also a choice and many individuals make that choice.  It is not God's will, but man's choice.  

To say that God "makes" us do evil, select evil, or make bad choices is a teaching that is not of God.  God is not a tyrant to force His Will upon an individual.  His Will is for all to be saved through Christ, which is predetermined.  His Will is that an individual choose to have faith in Christ to obtain that salvation.  The alternative choice is eternal destruction from the presence of God.  The choice remains with the individual.  

So when someone says " On God's time" or " God's will " or " this will happen God willing" is incorrect..... Ok. Thanks Nelg.

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So when someone says " On God's time" or " God's will " or " this will happen God willing" is incorrect..... Ok. Thanks Nelg.

Romans 1:21-23(NLT)

21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles

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We are all soul.  Those of us that are active on this physical plane also are running a physical body at this point.  As soul, we are eternal sparks of God made in God's image as soul.  Soul doesn't die.  Whenever our physical body is no longer any good to us we'll step out of that body and move on to another plane of existence determined by our state of consciousness at that time.  All religions are of God set up for those whose states of consciousness are needed at that point.  All of the holy books thru out the world were written by spiritually led individuals.  The truth of their writings are dependent upon their state of consciousness at the time they authored the works.  I don't know how many different versions of the Koran or the Bible there are but I'll bet that each person that just studys their particular version will swear that all of the other versions are wrong and only the version they follow is the correct one.  In this respect, I'm sure they are correct "for them!".  The old adage of God weeping or being sad, or going thru any of these emotional traits were used to get the kids to go to bed at night when they were supposed to.  Whatever religion or tools one can use that will actually help one to experience the light and sound of God and grow in love and personal experience is what one wants to use at any given time.  If a religion no longer fulfills that role for a person, they need to search until they find one that better fits them.  Just don't get hung up on the religion or tool and loose sight of the goal of self realization and God realization.  

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That is a very narrow definition of scientific resources that excludes the common understanding of the pursuit of knowledge of the natural world. 

Indeed, that is what the term "scientific" means doesn't it?  The methodology of science is what we use to determine what is so in the world when it matters (will this plane fly, is this drug safe, how to build a bridge, etc.).  Many folks (and I don't know if you are among them or not) chose to use some other methodology concerning things like evolution, or global warming, or other issues that they do not think has a direct bearing on their day to day lives, but intersects their belief system.  I do not agree with that and apply science when ever possible as the most reasonable proven means of finding things out (not that it isn't flawed of course).

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Indeed, that is what the term "scientific" means doesn't it?  The methodology of science is what we use to determine what is so in the world when it matters (will this plane fly, is this drug safe, how to build a bridge, etc.).  Many folks (and I don't know if you are among them or not) chose to use some other methodology concerning things like evolution, or global warming, or other issues that they do not think has a direct bearing on their day to day lives, but intersects their belief system.  I do not agree with that and apply science when ever possible as the most reasonable proven means of finding things out (not that it isn't flawed of course).

True enough - and with out wandering to far afield from the original question - I don't fault your belief system as to how you come to a conclusion whether it be from self initiated research or merely agreeing with some other persons work.  My point with sharing Blattey's statement was to illustrate how science, philosophy and religion can be presented in a dramatic form that invites consideration and discussion.  I found your response (while respectful) exclusionary to men of thought and letters; as if the pursuit of knowledge of the natural world was only allowed by and for scientists who publish their theories and/or conclusions in a respected scientific journal.

 

You may be surprised how in depth Blattey pursues these issues in 'The Ninth Configuration'.  Of course, it's not presented in scientific journal form but it is a challenging read and fun movie.  :tiphat:

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I have read about the Universe, from where we are outward in all directions, clear past the last star. It is difficult to imagine how vast it is. And how magnificent!  This past December, we shifted from one sky sign to another, from the Age of Pices to the Age of Aquarius, and when we did, it was because the earth is set in a slant that causes an enormous wobble that takes about 5000 years to complete, and which moves our night sky to a new vista.  This last time (last December) was even more rare because our Earth was in direct alignment with the sun and the center of our galaxy.  Each planet is made up of its own components, each unlike any of the others. The variety out there is as vast as the Universe, itself. And with all our exploration, and all that science can thus far discern, there is no other place in the Universe quite like our own small, beautiful blue ball, Earth. I can't read all of this, the very enormity of it, the very richness, the very singularity of our home planet, and geometric precision of every smallest part of it in order for us to even exist, without believing in a Divine Creator.  That might not be enough proof for others, but if proof is required, that will do it for me. Oh, and the fact that we live, we breathe, we walk around and make pronouncements as though we know the mind of God is also another small indicator. lol

Here's another interesting fact. There was a photo take by the Hubble  space telescope a couple years back that showed a portion of the sky that was the size of a dime on edge 100 feet away if you were viewing it from earth. Within this picture over 100 separate galaxies were identified. Our milky way has more stars than grains of sand on Waimea beach an estimated 300 billion. If each one of those stars have 3 planets orbiting it . that's 900billion planets in our own galaxy   Now there are an estimated 500 billion galaxies in the known universe, some 100's of  times bigger than ours.  Do you think were alone? Do you think they've heard of Jesus?

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True enough - and with out wandering to far afield from the original question - I don't fault your belief system as to how you come to a conclusion whether it be from self initiated research or merely agreeing with some other persons work.  My point with sharing Blattey's statement was to illustrate how science, philosophy and religion can be presented in a dramatic form that invites consideration and discussion.  I found your response (while respectful) exclusionary to men of thought and letters; as if the pursuit of knowledge of the natural world was only allowed by and for scientists who publish their theories and/or conclusions in a respected scientific journal.

 

You may be surprised how in depth Blattey pursues these issues in 'The Ninth Configuration'.  Of course, it's not presented in scientific journal form but it is a challenging read and fun movie.  :tiphat:

Yes its dramatic but is it accurate?  The problem with such presentation is that as a layman we don't know what has been left out, whether the presentation makes any sense or not.  The sort of statement about how many zillions of spacial orientations are possible for a bunch of atoms making up a protein for example ignores basic chemistry about how these things "snap" together, and thus its conclusion about it taking 100s of billions of years if not directed, is completely false.  You won't find this sort of claim in any scientific journal, why is that?  Because its simply wrong and doesn't pass peer review.  But, I don't want to derail the thread either!  That does not mean it isn't a fun movie of course!   (he did the exorcist too).

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We are all soul.  Those of us that are active on this physical plane also are running a physical body at this point.  As soul, we are eternal sparks of God made in God's image as soul.  Soul doesn't die.  Whenever our physical body is no longer any good to us we'll step out of that body and move on to another plane of existence determined by our state of consciousness at that time.  All religions are of God set up for those whose states of consciousness are needed at that point.  All of the holy books thru out the world were written by spiritually led individuals.  The truth of their writings are dependent upon their state of consciousness at the time they authored the works.  I don't know how many different versions of the Koran or the Bible there are but I'll bet that each person that just studys their particular version will swear that all of the other versions are wrong and only the version they follow is the correct one.  In this respect, I'm sure they are correct "for them!".  The old adage of God weeping or being sad, or going thru any of these emotional traits were used to get the kids to go to bed at night when they were supposed to.  Whatever religion or tools one can use that will actually help one to experience the light and sound of God and grow in love and personal experience is what one wants to use at any given time.  If a religion no longer fulfills that role for a person, they need to search until they find one that better fits them.  Just don't get hung up on the religion or tool and loose sight of the goal of self realization and God realization.  

I think you hit the nail on the head right there  with  "correct for them" IMO and this is just mine, religion is a way of finding your own spiritual path  

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This is really sad watching three people slapping each other on the back on their way to hell believing they are so right. :(

 

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THAT'S SO WRONG IN SO MANY DIFERENT WAYS !  Can't you respect others beliefs like the BIBLE says?

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THAT'S SO WRONG IN SO MANY DIFERENT WAYS !  Can't you respect others beliefs like the BIBLE says?

 

Where in the Bible does it say I'm supposed to let you die in your sin and go to hell?  I care about your soul and Jesus didn't die on the cross for you to die in your sins.  I am no better than you, but I see no other way to get your attention than to tell you the cold hard truth.  Withouth Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are going to hell.

 

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Where in the Bible does it say I'm supposed to let you die in your sin and go to hell?  I care about your soul and Jesus didn't die on the cross for you to die in your sins.  I am no better than you, but I see no other way to get your attention than to tell you the cold hard truth.  Withouth Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are going to h

Well it's my understanding that the definition of "Christian" is to be Christ like. Do you actually believe I'm going to hell because I disagree. You should have been one of the inquisition that killed 150 million people world wide. Do you think Jesus would agree with that.? I doubt it.

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Acts 4:8-14

New Living Translation (NLT)

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of our people, 9 are we being questioned today because we’ve done a good deed for a crippled man? Do you want to know how he was healed? 10 Let me clearly state to all of you and to all the people of Israel that he was healed by the powerful name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the man you crucified but whom God raised from the dead. 11 For Jesus is the one referred to in the Scriptures, where it says,

‘The stone that you builders rejected
    has now become the cornerstone.’

12 There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.”

13 The members of the council were amazed when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, for they could see that they were ordinary men with no special training in the Scriptures. They also recognized them as men who had been with Jesus. 14 But since they could see the man who had been healed standing right there among them, there was nothing the council could say.

 

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Well it's my understanding that the definition of "Christian" is to be Christ like. Do you actually believe I'm going to hell because I disagree. You should have been one of the inquisition that killed 150 million people world wide. Do you think Jesus would agree with that.? I doubt it.

 

Yes.  And regarding the inquisition, I'm not going around killing people, and I am not threatening to kill you to force you to convert.  I'm just telling you, you're getting ready to jump out of an airplane with a napsack attached to your back.

 

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Acts 4:8-14

New Living Translation (NLT)

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of our people, 9 are we being questioned today because we’ve done a good deed for a crippled man? Do you want to know how he was healed? 10 Let me clearly state to all of you and to all the people of Israel that he was healed by the powerful name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the man you crucified but whom God raised from the dead. 11 For Jesus is the one referred to in the Scriptures, where it says,

‘The stone that you builders rejected

    has now become the cornerstone.’

12 There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.”

13 The members of the council were amazed when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, for they could see that they were ordinary men with no special training in the Scriptures. They also recognized them as men who had been with Jesus. 14 But since they could see the man who had been healed standing right there among them, there was nothing the council could say.

 

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It's useless trying to have an intellectual discussion with a Christian fanatic. If you can leave the scripture behind and give a reason why I'm going to hell,which  don't believe in either. I welcome it

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Who do you think put those resources there in the first place? :)

Who, I don't get it? Are you talking about somebody or a personal relationship, or a supernatural BEING. I'm confused. Give me some facts. And don't  quote scripture unless you have to.

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Acts 4:8-14

New Living Translation (NLT)

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of our people, 9 are we being questioned today because we’ve done a good deed for a crippled man? Do you want to know how he was healed? 10 Let me clearly state to all of you and to all the people of Israel that he was healed by the powerful name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, the man you crucified but whom God raised from the dead. 11 For Jesus is the one referred to in the Scriptures, where it says,

‘The stone that you builders rejected

    has now become the cornerstone.’

12 There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.”

13 The members of the council were amazed when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, for they could see that they were ordinary men with no special training in the Scriptures. They also recognized them as men who had been with Jesus. 14 But since they could see the man who had been healed standing right there among them, there was nothing the council could say.

 

Are you just talking to me ore the other 2 billion that aren't christen. It's going to be pretty dam crowded in heaven

 

Yes.  And regarding the inquisition, I'm not going around killing people, and I am not threatening to kill you to force you to convert.  I'm just telling you, you're getting ready to jump out of an airplane with a napsack attached to your back.

 

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Are your sure that's not a parachute? Don't worry, I packed a back up. won't happen.  STAY PONO   mahalo and Aloha Edited by Markinsa
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interesting posts. i was going through a divorce and a bancruptcy, when i was at my lowest point, thats when i gave my life to the lord jesus. im an old man now but what a interesting ride its been, a whole new life like he promised. once you commit to the lord things truly change for the better, he gave me a wife, a business and a purpose for living. i noticed alot of christians seemed to have a complex, difficult way with christianity. the bible that i finally took time to read said that the lord wanted simple childlike faith. that has always stuck with me. love you all brothers and sisters and its your chose which i will respect, however i really hope to meet you someday in heaven...god bless you...........

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A-J516, I'm glad to hear that it worked out for you.  I truly believe that turning your problems over to the Lord and following Jesus teachings as described in the Bible will certainly turn a person's life around.  I consider him a true friend and look forward to seeing him soon.  All roads lead to Rome, some may take a little longer than others.  As soul we are all eternal beings, children of God, if you will.  We are in this school house called Earth right now to learn better to love.  Gary2

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gary 2, things didnt just change overnight, there was a number of years before things fell into place. it took me quite awhile to quit smoking, drinking in excess, and stop chewing tobacco. slowly all things changed and then my new wife came along. as far as my business getting started i had a maintenance manager call me asking if i would do maintenance on their plant. lets just say it was quite a experience seeing things change before my eyes. dont ever doubt the power of god working in your life. try giving your life to the lord and see what can happen in your life.....i still remember a passage that says, seek ye first the kingdom of god and all these things will be added unto you...

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