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jonjon

Government of Iraq recognizes its inability to cancel three zeroes of the dinar

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I think what causes the most misunderstanding about what is going on in Iraq, is that most America were brought up in fiscal responsibility via Austrian Economics ~ whereas Keynesian Economics works in the opposite direction of a debt based economy. There are overlaps between fiscal responsibility [Austrian] and charlatan [Keynesian].

The money supply is not at all going up, the 'circulation' is going up [debt/new loans] and circulation here refers to 'fractional digital'. The 'circulation is not tied in anyway to the 'supply' of dinars on the street.

Its a gimmick that the banking cabal uses to control a nation state aka; Iraq. So when you see the numbers going up in the M2-M...., you are seeing the introduction of obligations by Iraq for a future

value date, a commitment/promissory so to speak. Its exactly like the U.S., we have approximately 3 trillion USD in supply for your wallets and a circulation of fractional digital to the tune of 72 trillion.

The U.S. is in debt and we all know this, and this is the beginning of Iraq's life of debt, based on Keynesian Economics.

It is this future value date is why the Feds will hold their Dinars and the dinars they accept from all the local banks during the 'exchange/cash in' by investors. There will be absolutely be no financial pressure due to investor cash-in/exchange upon Iraq when they release their IQD to their GDP/GNP aka; reval. Iraq is only working on cleaning their slate inside their borders. That said, investor holdings I've seen as high as perhaps 10% and the Feds will buy and hold, while they flood the market with fiat USD currency within our borders, which will help to spur on hyperinflation. They want to shut our system down as Austrian Economics quashes their ability to freely exploit hard working people in an open and free market system.

Ummm Im talking about the physical currency outside the banks that is in "circulation"......

All of it is going up....the physical amount in circulation along with the M2......

Edited by keepmwlknfny
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Dont forget that at 1.5 billion, they would be "removing" almost 2 trillion dinar......

So lets just say this happens once a month.....they would have been out of dinar back in 2010....they would have bought back all the dinar in the world....

Yes that is true, this is why it wasn't sustained at that level.

Ummm Im talking about the physical currency outside the banks that is in "circulation"......

All of it is going up....the physical amount in circulation along with the M2......

Yes I know and in technical terms the physical is called [supply] and in [fractional digital/computer] it is called [circulation] which is M2-M.....

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Yes that is true, this is why it wasn't sustained at that level.

Yes I know and in technical terms the physical is called [supply] and in [fractional digital/computer] it is called [circulation] which is M2-M.....

So your saying that the auctions were set up to remove currency off the streets, which have been going since 2004 (about) and that even though they are doing this, the currency issued (outside the banks) keeps going up??

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Ummm Im talking about the physical currency outside the banks that is in "circulation"......

All of it is going up....the physical amount in circulation along with the M2......

Where have you been :blink::unsure::huh:....M2 is way down thanks to Shabibi who's on the run with it :o

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So your saying that the auctions were set up to remove currency off the streets, which have been going since 2004 (about) and that even though they are doing this, the currency issued (outside the banks) keeps going up??

When I mentioned auctions, it was about churning for profit. I think they started their auctions in '05 and as such, built up some reserves to literally back the IQD. So my guess to what your saying, is that through this process they have also built value into the dinar.

Currency 'supply' is going down and ' digital circulation' is going up which are two different things.

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Kuwait reinstated their currency at the same exchange rate after they were liberated from Saddam who had replaced the Kuwaiti dinar with the Saddam Iraqi dinar. There was no need to lop because there was no hyperinflationary period.

Removing the zeros has nothing to do with removing notes from circulation. It's a reference to removing zeros from the exchange rate which would result in a new currency replacing the IQD. If they were removing the large notes from circulation their money supply figures would be going down instead of up.

Why make a whole new currency when there is the IQD? Why did they print hi-tech notes and keep them so long? Why not just use dollars all these years? Redenominating is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater...

If the big problem was Saddam overprinting for his war, etc. then why must the later Bremer IQD notes be saddled with that hyperinflationary past? I need this part explained - what part am I missing here? (Seriously) They must have exchanged the new IQD one to one with the old Saddam notes - yet the rate was 4000 IQD to the dollar at the outset...all this is a little obscure.

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When I mentioned auctions, it was about churning for profit. I think they started their auctions in '05 and as such, built up some reserves to literally back the IQD. So my guess to what your saying, is that through this process they have also built value into the dinar.

Currency 'supply' is going down and ' digital circulation' is going up which are two different things.

When you mentioned auctions "open market" you were saying they are buying trillions off the street through these auctions.....which is what that article is referring to.....they are not for that purpose butbit has helped the value if the dinar, not by removing dinar, but by helping to build reserves.

Yes the digital amount of dinar is going up, but the currency issued also outside the banks, PHYSICAL notes is and has been going up since 03....

The money supply....all of it.....physical and electronic is going up.....

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When you mentioned auctions "open market" you were saying they are buying trillions off the street through these auctions.....which is what that article is referring to.....they are not for that purpose butbit has helped the value if the dinar, not by removing dinar, but by helping to build reserves.

Yes the digital amount of dinar is going up, but the currency issued also outside the banks, PHYSICAL notes is and has been going up since 03....

The money supply....all of it.....physical and electronic is going up.....

Big Gains for Iraq Security

........and limiting increases in consumer prices. Driven by higher food costs, inflation stood last month at the high rate of 16 percent, up from 11 percent in January.

That rate might be a good deal higher without the central bank’s aggressive policies. The bank spends $1 billion to $1.5 billion every month in oil revenue to buy Iraqi dinars on the open market, said Mudher M. Salih Kasim, senior adviser to the bank. This is the main lever for controlling consumer prices, said Kasim, who noted that the value of the dinar had risen about 20 percent against the dollar. An oil price crash, he added, would be “a disaster.”

http://www.nytimes.c...ecurity.html?hp

By STEPHEN FARRELL and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.

Published: June 21, 2008

Page 3

There are no mention of [auction/reserves]

Dinars were bought back at a rate of $1.5 Billion USD/month/oil windfall for a period of time. Buy-back reduces currency and controls prices and that is Iraq's policy. An increase in 'supply' would cause inflation and inflation is now very low at about 6%.

Physical currency is being reduced 'supply' while 'digital fractional/computer' circulation is increasing.

Digital does not enter the equation in PV because it is FV future value.

And as such, it does not equate into inflation. Special twist with Keynesia.

Edited by Rasica

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When you mentioned auctions "open market" you were saying they are buying trillions off the street through these auctions.....which is what that article is referring to.....they are not for that purpose butbit has helped the value if the dinar, not by removing dinar, but by helping to build reserves.

Yes the digital amount of dinar is going up, but the currency issued also outside the banks, PHYSICAL notes is and has been going up since 03....

The money supply....all of it.....physical and electronic is going up.....

I see the agument your trying to argue. 1 to 1.5 Billion USD is used to buy dinars on the open market. But, but, what "if" they're releasing out "less" than they're buying "in?"

First, we know that they could not be taking 1 to 1.5 billion usd and buying up dinars without replenishing the market with some dinars.. Yes, it has to be a vicious cycle, but, if they're releasing less than what they're buying off the open market - it should reduce the supply.

Haven't they really not printed any new notes since 2010 or 2011? I wonder if the dinars are quite dry on the open-market / street?

If your reducing your supply (in this sense your liabilities) through a process that helps the CBI make revenue for frequent exchanges, you're keeping the assets (Cash reserves) steady or slightly increasing which should help stabilize the value or give the potential to increase the rate. But the program rate has not really moved and has been the same pegged rate for years. This is one reason why a manged float would be quite nice because if the value slowly rises, its good for consumers & speculators.

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Some will no doubt be electronic, but the MOF doesnt run on all electronic dinar with their projects, neither do banks under the CBI that need a balance of USD and dinar on hand....

Its all just a vicious cycle.....they could surely find ways of removing dinar, but they arent exercising any of those....everything keeps going up....

The CBI takes the USD from the MOF from oil sales, gives the MOF dinar, now the CBI has to replenish what it just gave out to the MOF so it sells the USD to replace what it just gave to the MOF.....It just keeps going and going....

The profits from the auctions undoubtedly go towards building the reserves which in return helps stabilize the exchange rate due to the rising money supply......

Keep thanks for the insight and rebuttal. +1 last couple of pages have been insightful;

Don't try and explain thing with logic and facts. Say you heard it from a banker friend with connections in Iraq and folks here will follow you like the pied piper.

That's funny, the pot calling the kettle black...

Is there anything else you would like to surmise.

(Edited to remove name-calling by K98nights)

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Why make a whole new currency when there is the IQD? Why did they print hi-tech notes and keep them so long? Why not just use dollars all these years? Redenominating is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater...

If the big problem was Saddam overprinting for his war, etc. then why must the later Bremer IQD notes be saddled with that hyperinflationary past? I need this part explained - what part am I missing here? (Seriously) They must have exchanged the new IQD one to one with the old Saddam notes - yet the rate was 4000 IQD to the dollar at the outset...all this is a little obscure.

They wanted to replace the Saddam dinar to signify an end to the Saddam era, and to demonetize the currency held by insurgents. There were a couple of reasons for not changing the exchange rate at that time. First, they didn't have enough time to educate the public about any conversion rates which is required to avoid chaos. And second, inflation was still out of control at that point so it would have been an exercise in futility anyway. It was decided that they would wait until the country stabilizes and inflation is under control to attempt a 1000:1 re-denomination.

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You know, all we really know is the numbers published on the CBI website. Are those numbers true or false? Who knows. But they are all we have to work with. Too many people look at those numbers, don't like what they suggest, then make a huge leap into imagination. "What if" those numbers are not true and "what if" they have actually taken all dinar off the streets and "what if" ...

The problem is that the first "what if" asked ends the connection with reality. If we want to play "what if" games, the most significant "what if" we need to ask is "what if" the CBI numbers are true. How do we benefit from that. Everything else is simply the stuff dreams are made of.

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its all a bunch of gooblee guck. in the end the iraqi govt can and will value their currency at what ever rate they want to value it at .. and put as many dinars in thier own private central bank as they choose to put in their bank . and theres not a damnnmnmnn thing anyone will do or say about what iraq is doing because its none of their business. the only thing anyone is worried about is if iraq will be able to make good on those dinars that are out of country and honor the value that they set on those dinars in accordance to a monetary unit of exchange ... if they dont .. their currency wont be accepted .. and their screwed . iraqs getting a clean slate with a new government .. its not like a country thats been in existance and staying that way but lopping off some zeros . they are getting a clean slate .do ya think turkey got a clean slate when they lopped off zeros .. nope it was still turkey ..in iraq ,, the entire bathe party govt system was removed .. gone .. in the trash can .

iraq is like an old broken movie theator .. that was so old stinky rotted holes in the roof movie theator .. that used to charge 1 penny for admission .. that old theator was bulldozed over .. a brand new theator was put up . new seats ,, new bathrooms .. new carpet . a whole new building .. everything new management .. all new ..

do ya think they will still charge the old one penny admission .?

iraq is not turkey ..or venezula iraq is like greese .. or spain .. they have nothing but they hold the euro ..iraq is sitting on a pot of gold . you know it ..i know it .. everyone knows it ..we are just the ones sitting on top of iraqs currency ..

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Not sure how that pot of gold they are sitting on helps them. They can only get at a bit of it at a time. And most of what they are getting at is going to just pay the bills for the basic functioning of the country.

It's kind of like your great uncle left you a trust fund worth a million dollars, but stipulated that you could only take $2,000 a month from it, so you can just pay your basic expenses. So you go to the bank and tell them you want to buy a $500,000 home and use that trust fund as security. Well, the bank isn't going to go for it, because you are just getting by as it is, much less with a big mortgage added.

That's the situation Iraq is in. They have billions and billions worth of assets underground, but are barely getting enough of it up and sold to keep the camel in camel chow. And, as they acknowledge, oil and minerals will never be enough to create a booming economy and an economically successful country. Oil is just too volatile. They need to develop agriculture and manufacturing, and many other things, before they gain real economic strength. Iraq has a lot of potential, but it is going to be a long, slow slog, I'm afraid.

Edited by RVPleaseToday
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Keep thanks for the insight and rebuttal. +1 last couple of pages have been insightful; except for the moron below...

That's funny, the pot calling the kettle black...

Is there anything else you would like to surmise.

Thank you for that.

Go RV!!! :twothumbs:/>/>

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Big Gains for Iraq Security

........and limiting increases in consumer prices. Driven by higher food costs, inflation stood last month at the high rate of 16 percent, up from 11 percent in January.

That rate might be a good deal higher without the central bank’s aggressive policies. The bank spends $1 billion to $1.5 billion every month in oil revenue to buy Iraqi dinars on the open market, said Mudher M. Salih Kasim, senior adviser to the bank. This is the main lever for controlling consumer prices, said Kasim, who noted that the value of the dinar had risen about 20 percent against the dollar. An oil price crash, he added, would be “a disaster.”

http://www.nytimes.c...ecurity.html?hp

By STEPHEN FARRELL and RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.

Published: June 21, 2008

Page 3

There are no mention of [auction/reserves]

Dinars were bought back at a rate of $1.5 Billion USD/month/oil windfall for a period of time. Buy-back reduces currency and controls prices and that is Iraq's policy. An increase in 'supply' would cause inflation and inflation is now very low at about 6%.

Physical currency is being reduced 'supply' while 'digital fractional/computer' circulation is increasing.

Digital does not enter the equation in PV because it is FV future value.

And as such, it does not equate into inflation. Special twist with Keynesia.

Great point Rasica.

Most loppers, lop-gurus and lop-pumpers still think, money supplies are those money created by the central banks, ONLY.

So to most of them.....the ever increasing M2 figures simply means CBI is printing more and more money. Lol!

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Great point Rasica.

Most loppers, lop-gurus and lop-pumpers still think, money supplies are those money created by the central banks, ONLY.

So to most of them.....the ever increasing M2 figures simply means CBI is printing more and more money. Lol!

I dont think anyone is claiming that the increasing M2 means they are printing more physical cash, although M2 does include physical currency......

At least not on this thread.....I have been pretty specific about the PHYSICAL currency....not the digital side....there is a difference. But we are not seeing either being reduced.....

As Darin said, could they be receiving more then what they put back out? Its possible that happens at times....we arent seeing any evidence of it. But it would be interesting to do another head count of the dinar people have on hand to see if there are any bills with newer dates on them.

According to the CBI, they dont count cash in its vaults with the currency outside the banks (physical)....and thats the numbers I dont like seeing continuously rise....

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I dont think anyone is claiming that the increasing M2 means they are printing more physical cash, although M2 does include physical currency......

At least not on this thread.....I have been pretty specific about the PHYSICAL currency....not the digital side....there is a difference. But we are not seeing either being reduced.....

As Darin said, could they be receiving more then what they put back out? Its possible that happens at times....we arent seeing any evidence of it. But it would be interesting to do another head count of the dinar people have on hand to see if there are any bills with newer dates on them.

According to the CBI, they dont count cash in its vaults with the currency outside the banks (physical)....and thats the numbers I dont like seeing continuously rise....

Keep,

All we see is M2 figures. There's no breakdown between physical and digital money.....so how do you know the physical amount has not been reduced. For all you know, most of M2 are actually credit money.

As their economy grows, credit will grow...and this will be reflected in their M2....but that does not mean the amount of physical currency grows as well.

I agree, currency in CBI vaults is never part of money supply. They are part of money base.

Edited by zul

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Keep,

All we see is M2 figures. There's no breakdown between physical and digital money.....so how do you know the physical amount has not been reduced. For all you know, most of M2 are actually credit money.

As their economy grows, credit will grow...and this will be reflected in their M2....but that does not mean the amount of physical currency grows as well.

I agree, currency in CBI vaults is never part of money supply. They are part of money base.

How do you know the break down and how much of the M2 is physical currency?

They list physical currency outside of banks seperately......and that number also grows each month......

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"ABSOLUTELY.... There is no doubt in my mind what so ever... You can either believe me when I say I know this for a fact or not.

I just dont like listing any sources and having to defend them. YEP, the USA is involved heavily and in fact OWNS their current currency"

imgesing, you are spouting utter nonsense. To make such an assertion while refusing to back it up labels you as someone to be ignored. You are pitching some fantasy conspiracy theory.

 

I have nothing to prove and I dont post BS like most do.

I dont care to have any status or anyone (+) me.  I am invested in this as much or more than most here.  BELIEVE IT OR NOT...

I have been watching KEEP for some time and I dont have any issue with most here except those who do spat BS or get disrespectful.

So when I say I have a few sources beyond what I care to even mention DONT BELIEVE ME... I could give a rats.   The second I say anything or list names or what I know people all want to know more or will try to disqualify me anyway.  LOL

I will do my best to stay respectful to you even if you dont trust or believe me.  I wont drop to your level or disqualify you.  I will let others choose based on your words and the way you post. 

I believe there is a STRONG logical tie of the USA in IRAQ...  I believe this will happen, which is why I am here and invested.  If you are not why dont you go on your merry way.  I know my beliefs are based on words from some people outside of this web site who are a bit more educated and informed.  YET, this is a SPECULATION investment.  It might, like many high risk high yield investments fall flat and cost me.  It already has cost me time.

 

Good luck to you and please do not bother reading my posts.  They are much less frequent than most here.

 

BYE...  and peace.       :shrug:

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DO you know what the life cycle of most physical paper currency is?

You might want to look that up and or find out.  It is interesting. IMHO we really have no firm clue to the current money supply.  I bet they have a lot more than we know and it isnt all in IQD...

Some of these same discussions have been going on within the web site for a while now.

 

I try my best to find info to learn from.  Some of the people here who think they know it all can get a bit old.  The more I learn the less I feel I know...  lol

It is sometimes the one thing which might put me ahead of those who believe they do.

 

Money might be a great thing, but it sure doesnt change how we deal with one another or how we view life.

 

Peace... 



According to the U.S. Treasury, worn bills
are destroyed by Federal Reserve Banks during ordinary currency processing. As
you probably guessed, the note most
frequently replaced
is the $1 bill. There are currently four billion $1
bills in circulation, and the life expectancy of each is approximately 18
months. Bills of larger denominations stick around longer since they are handled
less than the $1 bill.

 

 

I did this so no one says I dont do my work here...  Paper money doesnt last as long as some might think it does.

The government take most old or worn out bills and replaces them.

 

Yet, what do I know...   lol   :rolleyes:

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