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krome2ez

Chicago Shootings. 7 People Killed in 1 Day

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Pattyangel, I'm sorry that this happened to you I'm sure you'll never forget that moment and thank God your kids weren't harmed.

Pattyangel this is trully a sad story and thank God you are here to tell us, but the second amendment or a gun protected you, God did, so this further proves to me that you don't need a gun, let's say you had a gun somewhere at the time you were attacked were you going to ask the assailant for a time out? so you could get your gun, the problem here

is it doesn't matter how many guns you own, when somebody breaks into your home you don't have time to get your gun unless you walk around the house with them and when you have kids it's impossible unless you are irresponsible and don't lock your guns. So I still believe you can own your gun if you're a law abiding citizen but the laws need to change so criminals will have a hard time getting them.

[/quot

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Pattyangel, I'm sorry that this happened to you I'm sure you'll never forget that moment and thank God your kids weren't harmed.

Pattyangel this is trully a sad story and thank God you are here to tell us, but the second amendment or a gun protected you, God did, so this further proves to me that you don't need a gun, let's say you had a gun somewhere at the time you were attacked were you going to ask the assailant for a time out? so you could get your gun, the problem here

is it doesn't matter how many guns you own, when somebody breaks into your home you don't have time to get your gun unless you walk around the house with them and when you have kids it's impossible unless you are irresponsible and don't lock your guns. So I still believe you can own your gun if you're a law abiding citizen but the laws need to change so criminals will have a hard time getting them.

Again just shows you inability to comprehend. YOU will never keep criminals from committing crimes guns or no guns, I feel sorry for your family best wishes to you.

simply pathetic!

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Pattyangel, I'm sorry that this happened to you I'm sure you'll never forget that moment and thank God your kids weren't harmed.

Pattyangel this is trully a sad story and thank God you are here to tell us, but the second amendment or a gun protected you, God did, so this further proves to me that you don't need a gun, let's say you had a gun somewhere at the time you were attacked were you going to ask the assailant for a time out? so you could get your gun, the problem here

is it doesn't matter how many guns you own, when somebody breaks into your home you don't have time to get your gun unless you walk around the house with them and when you have kids it's impossible unless you are irresponsible and don't lock your guns. So I still believe you can own your gun if you're a law abiding citizen but the laws need to change so criminals will have a hard time getting them.

Tony... you're restricting one's opportunity, and of course Right, to defend themself. Patty may not have been able to use a gun in THAT instance, but I'm sure the experience has taught her (and many many others) to approach a potential situation differently. And with the proper training, gun training, awareness training, self-defense training, self-preservation training... your "weapons" against criminals will always work to your advantage, more than not. We do not give away that advantage!!!!

And that's the point... once you restrict or eliminate the Second Amendment Right... you've AUTOMATICALLY put hundreds, thousands, millions of citizens at risk. Thankfully Patty and her family survived! And yes, survived to do it differently if it ever happens again... survived to share the story to alert others. And of course there are thousands of stories where people are alive because they weren't restricted. The Second Amendment works, as is... but it's effectiveness is easily eroded by infringement laws. Hence... leave it alone.

I teach self-defense and self-preservation in the martial arts venue, and as it translates to the every day. If I ever told my students to "give away their advantage", I'd be negligent. There's an old myth that Black Belts have to register themselves because of their potential deadly capabilities... or that they must warn their attacker of such. NONSENSE! My attacker will never know of my abilities... as I will never give away my advantage, especially in life and death confrontation. So, whether with a gun... or without... it's all about preserving your RIGHTS and your PRIVACY, so that you can protect yourself and your family to the best of your ability.

Training, not fear... is paramount.

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Ignore these liberals, they have no clue! Can you all imagine these people back in the days where people had to actually protect themselves and their families from evil on a daily basis? Even to this day, being a gutless wimp is a huge disservice to society! These people could never be counted on to stand up for liberty and freedom, because they are too busy being cowards. Pathetic.

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Okay Tony, picture this. Your wife is home alone with two small children ages 4 & 2 and they are playing in the their rooms. The door bell rings and she answers it, right when she opens the door he pushes through, grabs her by the neck and pushes her against a entry table and falls and at the same time she thinking she has to get him as far away from the children's path, because the noise will bring the children out of their rooms, so she moves toward the living area. Children, hear the noise and come into the room. In the meantime the entry door is still open, she screams at them to run to a neighbors, she watches the oldest (little)one grab her younger sibling and run, no hesitation on her part. In the meantime he is approaching her with such evil in his eyes. He grabs from behind, she struggles, she kicks, she punches but he still has a good strong grip on her, they're on the floor rolling, she hits her head on a coffee table, but still able to get up and run, he grabs her by her blouse, pulls her back and puts her in a lock, she thinking, there is just know way out. Mind you, this is your wife. She's stomping and twisting but to no avail can't get loose. She's on the verge of losing hope, but something tells her she will make it. She decides to let her body go limp, like a fainting motion. As she does, she goes down and elbows him in the groan, hard, he lets go and she runs as fast as she could.

Lucky her, huh. Some are not as fortunate Tony. But the emotional anxiety your wife have to live with, is life long.

Now as a husband, doesn't this just eat you alive. Knowing that your wife was assaulted, violated. And you weren't there to help. But you could of trained her with a weapon to protect herself. A wife trust and depend on the husband to protect her in any form he can. Even if that means having a weapon. What best teacher to have, is a husband.

So Tony we know it wasn't your wife, thank God. Tony, it was me.

When the legislator threatens my 2nd Amendment, to keep me from protecting myself, my family, it makes me want to puke.

Jax is correct, its about the 2nd Amendment.

My hands are shaking as I finish this, sorry for any mistakes, I will step away now. Tony, think deeply on this, for all the wives sake, women sake.

One of the true Steel Magnolia's :hug:

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Tony... you're restricting one's opportunity, and of course Right, to defend themself. Patty may not have been able to use a gun in THAT instance, but I'm sure the experience has taught her (and many many others) to approach a potential situation differently. And with the proper training, gun training, awareness training, self-defense training, self-preservation training... your "weapons" against criminals will always work to your advantage, more than not. We do not give away that advantage!!!!

And that's the point... once you restrict or eliminate the Second Amendment Right... you've AUTOMATICALLY put hundreds, thousands, millions of citizens at risk. Thankfully Patty and her family survived! And yes, survived to do it differently if it ever happens again... survived to share the story to alert others. And of course there are thousands of stories where people are alive because they weren't restricted. The Second Amendment works, as is... but it's effectiveness is easily eroded by infringement laws. Hence... leave it alone.

I teach self-defense and self-preservation in the martial arts venue, and as it translates to the every day. If I ever told my students to "give away their advantage", I'd be negligent. There's an old myth that Black Belts have to register themselves because of their potential deadly capabilities... or that they must warn their attacker of such. NONSENSE! My attacker will never know of my abilities... as I will never give away my advantage, especially in life and death confrontation. So, whether with a gun... or without... it's all about preserving your RIGHTS and your PRIVACY, so that you can protect yourself and your family to the best of your ability.

Training, not fear... is paramount.

Jax I have never said that you don't have a right to defend yourself, just because I don't believe in guns and violence doesn't mean that I don't think you should have that right, I too took defensive class in karate my brother in law is 7 degree black belt and he's in the hall of fame here in NJ, but if you think it's ok with 10,000+ death a year by a fire arm it's your prerogative, I think it's time to take the guns away from the criminals, and not live in fear of walking down the street, a few countries have done it and we can do it too and some here think the government want to take your guns and turn you into a Zumbie but I think that's far fetched, and you and I know that this is my opinion I don't expect you to agree with me and I hope you respect my opinion I know what I think won't make a difference in the outcome of this serious issue.

Ignore these liberals, they have no clue! Can you all imagine these people back in the days where people had to actually protect themselves and their families from evil on a daily basis? Even to this day, being a gutless wimp is a huge disservice to society! These people could never be counted on to stand up for liberty and freedom, because they are too busy being cowards. Pathetic.

"Can you all imagine these people back in the days where people had to actually protect themselves "

You said it all here back in the 1700's and 1800's that was true, and I can tell you right now you can call me a coward but if we were side by side protecting our freedom I could run circles around you. And by the way you need a gun to feel like a man I don't need one to be a man.

Again just shows you inability to comprehend. YOU will never keep criminals from committing crimes guns or no guns, I feel sorry for your family best wishes to you.

simply pathetic!

What's pathetic is you think or you were told you need a gun to survive, and I'm not afraid of the government turning me into a zumbie.

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Well sorry man but after reading that I have come to the conclusion that you are a truly ignorant man tony. I don't mean that as a bash I truly in my heart think you are truly ignorant and not capable of understanding. You would sooner let your wife be raped rather then admit you may be wrong . Hmmm

I keep my gun on me a all times where I can get to it by the way. and when I am in bed it`s within arms reach.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that you're ignorant to think that just because you have 47 guns nothing is ever going to happen to you, you can sit here all day and tell me that if somebody breaks into your house you'll be able to defend yourself and your family until that day comes ( I hope it never does ) talk is cheap and this goes to all you brave man that think the same way, and as I said many times all you guys bring is name calling, and for your information my wife will only be raped if they walk over my dead body, the difference between us is you will be holding a gun when they walk over your dead body.

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I came to the conclusion a long time ago that you're ignorant to think that just because you have 47 guns nothing is ever going to happen to you, you can sit here all day and tell me that if somebody breaks into your house you'll be able to defend yourself and your family until that day comes ( I hope it never does ) talk is cheap and this goes to all you brave man that think the same way, and as I said many times all you guys bring is name calling, and for your information my wife will only be raped if they walk over my dead body, the difference between us is you will be holding a gun when they walk over your dead body.

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Jax I have never said that you don't have a right to defend yourself, just because I don't believe in guns and violence doesn't mean that I don't think you should have that right, I too took defensive class in karate my brother in law is 7 degree black belt and he's in the hall of fame here in NJ, but if you think it's ok with 10,000+ death a year by a fire arm it's your prerogative, I think it's time to take the guns away from the criminals, and not live in fear of walking down the street, a few countries have done it and we can do it too and some here think the government want to take your guns and turn you into a Zumbie but I think that's far fetched, and you and I know that this is my opinion I don't expect you to agree with me and I hope you respect my opinion I know what I think won't make a difference in the outcome of this serious issue.

"Can you all imagine these people back in the days where people had to actually protect themselves "

You said it all here back in the 1700's and 1800's that was true, and I can tell you right now you can call me a coward but if we were side by side protecting our freedom I could run circles around you. And by the way you need a gun to feel like a man I don't need one to be a man.

Dream on liberal. You can spew all the cyber garbage you want running circles around people. Yea right I'm sure you a real tough guy. If you look even remotely like you sound I think not. Liberal babble. Pathetic

What's pathetic is you think or you were told you need a gun to survive, and I'm not afraid of the government turning me into a zumbie.

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Jax I have never said that you don't have a right to defend yourself, just because I don't believe in guns and violence doesn't mean that I don't think you should have that right, I too took defensive class in karate my brother in law is 7 degree black belt and he's in the hall of fame here in NJ, but if you think it's ok with 10,000+ death a year by a fire arm it's your prerogative, I think it's time to take the guns away from the criminals, and not live in fear of walking down the street, a few countries have done it and we can do it too and some here think the government want to take your guns and turn you into a Zumbie but I think that's far fetched, and you and I know that this is my opinion I don't expect you to agree with me and I hope you respect my opinion I know what I think won't make a difference in the outcome of this serious issue.

You cannot take guns away from criminals... that's why they're criminals! All the endless reasons by the masses of citizenry for the Right to arm themselves is covered under the Second Amendment. It is impossible to micro-manage the reasoning, as individual circumstances are infinite. Hence the Amendment. Once you try to do that... the can of worms is opened... for endless "gun-grab" reasoning and "excuses"... and attacks on OTHER Constitutional rights. Remove your personal, individual objections, as they only infringe on my Right... and obstruct my individual freedoms. Conversely, my contention does NOT infringe upon your freedom, rights, or privacy... in fact it reinforces yours. That's the difference... and That is the true danger of trying to "pick and choose" freedoms and liberties. NO ONE has addressed this to me, as I've been trying to hammer it home. That reasoning is unflawed in this respect... as the Second Amendment's provisions do not allow for the false-premise to begin with. You CANNOT be for the Second Amendment and want restrictions at the same time... unless you repeal the amendment and replace it with something different. It simply is what it is. Tony, yes I do respect you... But, don't sell your opinion short... "what you do think DOES affect the outcome of this serious issue". Address the false-premise and the false-narrative... and the discussion will find resolve, through intellectual honesty. Otherwise, it is an exercise in disingenuous futility. :(

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You cannot take guns away from criminals... that's why they're criminals! All the endless reasons by the masses of citizenry for the Right to arm themselves is covered under the Second Amendment. It is impossible to micro-manage the reasoning, as individual circumstances are infinite. Hence the Amendment. Once you try to do that... the can of worms is opened... for endless "gun-grab" reasoning and "excuses"... and attacks on OTHER Constitutional rights. Remove your personal, individual objections, as they only infringe on my Right... and obstruct my individual freedoms. Conversely, my contention does NOT infringe upon your freedom, rights, or privacy... in fact it reinforces yours. That's the difference... and That is the true danger of trying to "pick and choose" freedoms and liberties. NO ONE has addressed this to me, as I've been trying to hammer it home. That reasoning is unflawed in this respect... as the Second Amendment's provisions do not allow for the false-premise to begin with. You CANNOT be for the Second Amendment and want restrictions at the same time... unless you repeal the amendment and replace it with something different. It simply is what it is. Tony, yes I do respect you... But, don't sell your opinion short... "what you do think DOES affect the outcome of this serious issue". Address the false-premise and the false-narrative... and the discussion will find resolve, through intellectual honesty. Otherwise, it is an exercise in disingenuous futility. :(src="http://dinarvets.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif">

Jax I understand your concerns, maybe I'm been misunderstood or I'm not making myself clear enough, we already have laws here in NJ right ? why can't these same laws be enforced in all 50 states? this to me is the biggest problem most illegal guns here in NJ come from a different state that the laws are very loose,see where I'm coming from? the change I keep bringing up is this that I just told you.

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Jax I understand your concerns, maybe I'm been misunderstood or I'm not making myself clear enough, we already have laws here in NJ right ? why can't these same laws be enforced in all 50 states? this to me is the biggest problem most illegal guns here in NJ come from a different state that the laws are very loose,see where I'm coming from? the change I keep bringing up is this that I just told you.

You will never get gun laws as moronic as New Jersey anywhere in Texas or any other state in the south for that matter. You people keep electing progressive idiotic liberals that are destroying your state. Your state has some of the highest taxes in the country and is basically bankrupt. Your gun laws are the strictest and your crime rate is high. You liberals will never learn. You deserve what comes your way.

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Jax I understand your concerns, maybe I'm been misunderstood or I'm not making myself clear enough, we already have laws here in NJ right ? why can't these same laws be enforced in all 50 states? this to me is the biggest problem most illegal guns here in NJ come from a different state that the laws are very loose,see where I'm coming from? the change I keep bringing up is this that I just told you.

Tony... it's impossible to "have" what you "desire"... because the laws convolute the Right. The laws are the problem. You can enact varying degrees of a multitude of laws... and it will only make it worse... like an endless "trial and error" experiment to find the ONE solutions that fits ALL! Yet, it already exists... in the Second Amendment... BECAUSE of it's simplicity and "blanket" rights. For some (like yourself) it is scary because it "feels" counter-intuitive to the perceived problem (the "crisis"). Human nature dictates the "search" for a solution. But, in reality... the solution is already tested, and in it's best form, became the Second Amendment. The Amendment still trumps the individual laws.... but those laws still have a negative affect on it's effectiveness.

I'm for any laws that address CRIME, when committed... not false-premised PRE-EMPTIVE regulations (laws). In other words, if a pre-emptive "law" infringes on my rights... it presupposes that I'm already a criminal, and therefore it should be invalid. Conversely, a law against gun crime is as against any other criminal action... and is enforced when/if I commit a crime.

I believe you are for "criminal" laws (as I am)... but are expressing yourself as for "pre-emptive" laws. Pre-emptive "laws" actually violate our constitutional rights. It's a slippery slope that is disguised as regulation also. We have to avoid that slope as best we can!

So... I think we may be in agreement in the proper context. I am all for tough, strict laws enforced against gun violations/crime! And for the innocent gun owner/rights activist... such laws are the normal time-tested deterrant against committing crimes.... same as other laws against other crimes.

But, I will be against any pre-emptive law or regulation that pre-supposes me as a criminal. It is unconstitutional and unnecessary.

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Jax I understand your concerns, maybe I'm been misunderstood or I'm not making myself clear enough, we already have laws here in NJ right ? why can't these same laws be enforced in all 50 states? this to me is the biggest problem most illegal guns here in NJ come from a different state that the laws are very loose,see where I'm coming from? the change I keep bringing up is this that I just told you.

OMG.. Ok, look since neither you, or farwould answered my questions earlier in this thread, I'm going to assume you didn't see them. No problem. What bothers me is this. You have an opininon and beliefs about fire arms, which is 110% great and you have every right to them. But you are not seeing the vastly, non compartmentalized, bigger picture. You suggest that the rest of the country adopt similar or identical gun control laws. The rest of the country is not New Jersey. Or New York. Or California. Or Illinois/ Chicago. Obviously you know that, but what it seems like you don't acknowledge is that not every state is the same.. The people have different mindsets.. Parts of the south, south and mid west, for better or worse, are nearly different cultures entirely. That is a huge area.. It is just not the same. The east and west coast don't realize there is a great deal of real estate between them that is.. occupied. They are NOT the entirety of the United States of America.

Now.. Personally I don't care whether you own a gun or not. It is a personal choice and not everyone needs or wants one or several. But I care if i do. Hand to hand skills that you claim to have are in fact very handy. I hope you never have to use them again. I learned that lesson too.. I prefer aikido and kick boxing myself. And knife fighting and CQB fire arms training. I've had all of the above. There I said it. But I also know how it feels to have bullets fly past me. It isn't like what you see on tv. That's all I'm going to say about that. Hand to hand or good intentions don't cover your a** in those situations. And you are probably right, criminals in your state most likely have guns they got out of state. But they more than likely did not walk into a gun shop, sporting goods store, nor a gun show to get them. That's not how it works. Every gun shop I've been in (in KY anyway) usually has at least a few owners or managers that open carry, and they ALWAYS make you fill out paper work and perform a background check for a firearm. Criminals don't go to those places.. They probably stole them from innocent people or bought them from other people of ill refute. There are tens of thousands of 'hot' weapons floating around. Yes, that sucks. But there are lots of other 'hot' items floating around too, not just guns. It is physically impossible to track them all down. Not going to happen. Ever. Now, new laws wont stop massacres, and they won't stop violent crime.. involving fire arms. Or knives, bats, crowbars, newspapers (yes), axes, cars, or fists and feet. We cannot outlaw body parts, right?

Here is why; the very vast majority of gun owners, whether they own single shot deer rifles, to a 1911 .45 acp or a Glock 17, or a semi auto Browning 12ga., to a S&W M&P AR 15, or my personal favorite an LWRCI M6A3 in 6.8mm DO NOT COMMIT VIOLENT CRIMES. They just don't. Plain and simple. They are law abiding citizens. Duh. It seems as though too many are incapable of taking that leap of logic. And fact. As long as humans walk the earth there will be violence. It has always been that way. Sorry to bust bubbles but we aren't capable of dropping the nasty parts of our nature.. Not yet anyway. And honestly? The world we live in is even scarier than in the past.. Do you honestly believe that new laws will override the human condition? Don't count on it.

I know you value your families' safety and I would never doubt that. You are even willing to use violence to defend yourself and them. I would do the same, without hesitation. But.. Shattering someones clavicle and/ or crushing the windpipe of an attacker, is no less violent than using a pistol to fend off a potential murderer, burgler, or rapist. Why on earth would you deny tens of millions the right to equip themselves in the manner that they deem fit, and that their potential 'situational-environments' dictate? That makes approximately zero sense. That does not mean an armed mob. It means many things though.. from a single mother packing a compact revolver in her purse, an old man that carries a copy of the 1911 he had in Vietnam because he's too old to put up a fist fight but too young to give up on his life, to a good ol' boy with a DSA FAL hidden in the cieling because his neighbors sell drugs and he can't simply move just because there are dangerous or scary people hanging around his neighborhood. And so many others. They cannot all be catalogued and legislated.

Maybe one day we can actually live in a world where our guns are beaten in to peaces signs. Plow shares sounds to Cold War-ish. That world is not yet upon us. Won't be in your lifetime or mine. I hope it is, but now is not the time. People don't want to hear that. They think we are in a truly new era where everyone is, or is one the cusp, of some great enlightenment. It's fantasy for the most part.

Peace.

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at least 70% of union steel workers and union construction workers and union coal workers are pro gun .. out heah in pennsylvania virginia west virginia ohio .. indiana missorri nebraska wyoming north dakota , south dakota ,, michigan , new york .. maine indiana iowa montana minnasota vermont new hampshire conneticut ,, wisconsin . maryland . deleware . colorado , and belong to the democrat party .. they dont stand with obama biden ..they lied to them before the election .. now they want their guns ..

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Jax I understand your concerns, maybe I'm been misunderstood or I'm not making myself clear enough, we already have laws here in NJ right ? why can't these same laws be enforced in all 50 states? this to me is the biggest problem most illegal guns here in NJ come from a different state that the laws are very loose,see where I'm coming from? the change I keep bringing up is this that I just told you.

Oh, you've made your self perfectly clear.

Now your blaming Jersey's crime on the gun laws in other states.

Why don't you ask your self why are the crime rates lowest,

where the gun laws are the least restrictive?

No law will disarm the lawless. Period.

And as far as that goes, no law will disarm me as well.

I will defend my self from anyone who thinks that they can take what is mine.

Our founding fathers believed in God and his laws are the Law of his land.Ones you will never follow.

But you will follow mans laws because men are smarter than God.

Register yer arms or be the same as the crimminal that doesnt.

I wonder what the punishment will be when you dont?

Registering our arms is not God's law.

This paragraph of yours is one of your most contradicting yet.

You claim to follow God's law,

but yet you kneel down to your human master.

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Registering our arms is not God's law.

This paragraph of yours is one of your most contradicting yet.

You claim to follow God's law,

but yet you kneel down to your human master.

The only people I kneel down to is God and Jesus

And I never said registering yer arms is Gods law

But yet you kneel down and worship the gun instead of God

And Bluegrass it will be yer gun that the crimminal aquires from yer home to commit crimes

If'in you dont have one their wont be one to steal.

With God all you need is faith in him without him well then you better have a gun because

wickedness begots wickedness and placing items in yer home that are wicked and evil invites them right in.

Having a altar in yer home that glorifies God invites the holy spirit to watch over you and yer family

but put a gun on that same altar and the devil will watch over yer home.When 2 or more folks pray God is present

praying with you.Thats why God wants us to hang around with other Christians because that strength is mightier

than any gun shall ever be.Replace God with a gun and hang around with the wicked and the wicked shall come.

Thats why God said if you live by the sword you shall die by the sword.Oh you can try to create yer own peace

and enforce it with yer gun but evil rears its ugly head and will come and take yer peace because without faith

in Christ you will have no protection.Thats why the wicked want God gone from everywhere so they can run amuck

and no gun can protect you from this because they will have one too.If'in yer faith is so weak that you feel that

you have to do Gods work with malice of forthought in yer heart God wont be their for you so where is yer protection

at then?Evil will always win against you when yer faith is gone in Christ.Go ahead tell God that yer gun is mightier

than him and see what happens to you.I pray for all of you folks everyday because I love everyone and I dont want

any harm to come to you or your families.Remember when you pray the devil cannot hear it only God can.

If you have no faith and dont pray then only the devil can hear you then.

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Tony, it’s just not going to work. There are too many evildooer’s, than good. You are wanting to change the law that will be benefiting them.

I feel your eagerness and frustration and you wanting this to come to fruition, in reality, this will not come to pass in our life time.

So make sure what you ask for, is for the benefit of your children’s children, to come.

Yes, you mentioned God is at our side. You’re absolutely correct, He is. He is also weary of the way the direction of this world is going. In order for us to continue His works, we have to be alive and what ever measure it takes to be alive, in protecting myself, my family, then so be it. You see I am one who will abide by man’s laws, to the point that it does not interfere with moral values as well as my life. God wants us to protect the poor, the innocent’s and the children. What ever means it takes, I will take. God is my judger and know one else.

My children were at risk at the time and I would of done anything with my God given strength and wisdom to protect them. No wife, no family, no one should live in fear. We should all go our merry way and love life. But Tony, that isn’t the case in this era. Some of us live on our guard because of evil doings that have been done. In my case there were no law offices to protect me, or was my husband.

If a weapon was available and given the opportunity I would of used it. It’s like this Tony, it was either me or him, who was going to come out alive in this incident. And it sure was heck going to be me.

Once our protection is taken away we are at the hands and feet of the evildooers. That is not where I want to be.

Don’t let your politicians brainwash you. The incident of Newtown is their cover up, to have their way. This is their evil conniving way of hiding between their true intentions. Read between the lines, listen to their sweet charming, articulate words, and listen to their fork tongues. Do not be deceived.

It’s not just the guns they want, they want more. Keep your eyes open to what is to come next. Our Freedoms are diminishing before our eyes.

The 2nd Amendment worked then and it continues to work. Why fix something that is not broke????

Fix the evildooers. It begins there.

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Pattyangel, I'm sorry that this happened to you I'm sure you'll never forget that moment and thank God your kids weren't harmed.

Pattyangel this is trully a sad story and thank God you are here to tell us, but the second amendment or a gun protected you, God did, so this further proves to me that you don't need a gun, let's say you had a gun somewhere at the time you were attacked were you going to ask the assailant for a time out? so you could get your gun, the problem here

is it doesn't matter how many guns you own, when somebody breaks into your home you don't have time to get your gun unless you walk around the house with them and when you have kids it's impossible unless you are irresponsible and don't lock your guns. So I still believe you can own your gun if you're a law abiding citizen but the laws need to change so criminals will have a hard time getting them.

TONY!!!!! CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE LAWS!!!

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TONY!!!!! CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE LAWS!!!

Mitch you're wrong it's the weapons that don't give a damn about laws! And until we stiifen the penalties they will do as they will. It's not the people that murder it's the weapons!!wink.gif

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A friend just told me he was in Austin the other day and saw a bumper sticker on a parked car that read, "I Miss Chicago "...

So he tells me he broke the window, stole the radio, shot out two of the tires and left a note that read, "I hope this helps!"... :o)~

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Morning Jax, you're the only one here that can carry a conversation like grown ups, even though we disagree on this issue I like to bring facts, in 1787 there were 13 states when the second amendment was written now we have 52 states and each state has their own set of laws on gun control, now I've made it clear many times that I'm not against the second amendment and I'm not against your rights to bear arms, but the way it's set up now it's a lot easier for the criminals to get guns than it is for the law abiding citizen, we need a universal law that the law abiding citizens can still have their guns but make hard if not impossible for the criminals to buy guns, and I know we will never keep all criminals from getting their hands on guns but if we can keep the majority of them out of reach of guns it's a win win for everyone, and this is where I stand.

Tony, with all due respect, I would argue that the existing gun laws already keep a majority of criminals from getting their hands on firearms. Look at the population of our country with gun ownership compared to the actual gun violence. Then take into consideration the location of the actual violent acts. Even in Australia and England where guns have been banned, they have murders where firearms are used. I'm not sure what the ratio of population of the UK with total gun control and firarms deaths is but would be interested to see how it compared with our population and gun ownership in this country. :)

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Mitch you're wrong it's the weapons that don't give a damn about laws! And until we stiifen the penalties they will do as they will. It's not the people that murder it's the weapons!!wink.gif

You should have been a comedian

rolling.gifroflmao.gifrolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gif

roflmao.gifrolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gifrolling.gif

rolling-on-the-floor-laughing-smiley-emoticon.gifrolling.gifroflmao.gif

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A friend just told me he was in Austin the other day and saw a bumper sticker on a parked car that read, "I Miss Chicago "...

So he tells me he broke the window, stole the radio, shot out two of the tires and left a note that read, "I hope this helps!"... :o/>/>)~

I got that Caz was being sarcastic ( a little rough) but you my friend that is some funny sheet right there.

Laughing_Hysterically.gif

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Oh, you've made your self perfectly clear.

Now your blaming Jersey's crime on the gun laws in other states.

Why don't you ask your self why are the crime rates lowest,

where the gun laws are the least restrictive?

No law will disarm the lawless. Period.

And as far as that goes, no law will disarm me as well.

I will defend my self from anyone who thinks that they can take what is mine.

Dam Straight!

Registering our arms is not God's law.

This paragraph of yours is one of your most contradicting yet.

You claim to follow God's law,

but yet you kneel down to your human master.

Wow!

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