Whats the hold up?

[dinarck]

ya its created wealth out of thin air .. fiat... everytime i spend my dollars someone benifits .. the country of iraq created wealth through a fiat system ..they now have new wealth that wil be spent on things in country .. the continued oil wealth can buy foriegn goods with the world trade organization .. they may buy 1000 generators .. those who made the generators .. will get a pay check ..

they create wealth and it will circulate till it runs out ,, by then it should be eygpts turn .. then libya .. then who knows afganistan ,, iran .... .. who knows .. those elites play games with human lives . this time around i hope i get a chunk .. it was going to happenwheter or not o got in on it .. sad situation .. but thats how i see whats going on

no one can ever prove any of it ..

Wow!!!!! You must have ESP. You answered my question as I was typing it. So now all of the above mentioned countries are going to "RV" too? Lol...delusion runs deep. Well since we have entered the age of "RV" I guess every country on the planet can go ahead with creative banking. Yeah...there ya go. That will work great.

once they enter their fraternity . they are teasted ..either they get in or they dont .. who knows what the real test is to get accepted ..

no more questions B)/>

allowed ..lol :lol:/>

who is going to stop them ..

i wonder if im allowed to go outside and take a dump right now :lol:/>

What's going to stop them? ECONOMICS!!!! What you are spouting off is fantasy.

[dontlop]

Wow!!!!! You must have ESP. You answered my question as I was typing it. So now all of the above mentioned countries are going to "RV" too? Lol...delusion runs deep. Well since we have entered the age of "RV" I guess every country on the planet can go ahead with creative banking. Yeah...there ya go. That will work great.

im glad you got it all figured out .. now go enjoy yourself ..

if you think everyone is stupid .. and you have chosen to pick on people who you feel is stupid ,, what do you benifit from that ?.. do you pat yourself on the back each day praising yourself for picking on stupid people ..i hope you dont know anyone who was born mentally retardeddd ..you would have a feild day .

if you think im stupid why dont you just leave me alone .. quit picking on the unfortunate under educated people ..

[dinarck]

im glad you got it all figured out .. now go enjoy yourself ..

if you think everyone is stupid .. and you have chosen to pick on people who you feel is stupid ,, what do you benifit from that ?.. do you pat yourself on the back each day praising yourself for picking on stupid people ..i hope you dont know anyone who was born mentally retardeddd ..you would have a feild day .

if you think im stupid why dont you just leave me alone .. quit picking on the unfortunate under educated people .. :lol:/>

You are embarrassing yourself again with your new world wide RVs theory.

There is a difference between being stupid and having zero common sense.

[dontlop]

You are embarrassing yourself again with your new world wide RVs theory.

There is a difference between being stupid and having zero common sense.

so its your goal in life to find people on the internet with "no common sense" and argue with them ..hmm your starting to remind me of a lumpy fart i had one time .. turned out to be quite a butt dumpling .. someone stole it .. you dont happen to be some kind of turd burglar are ya ?

Edited January 15, 2013 by dontlop

[dinarck]

so its your goal in life to find people on the internet with "no common sense" and argue with them ..hmm your starting to remind me of a lumpy fart i had one time .. turned out to be quite a butt dumpling .. someone stole it .. you dont happen to be some kind of turd burglar are ya ?

So people on a dinar discussion forum easily show how flawed your thinking is and you make poopoo jokes? Lol....what are you like 5. Do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?

[Darin]

So people on a dinar discussion forum easily show how flawed your thinking is and you make poopoo jokes? Lol....what are you like 5. Do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?

You seem that any rise in the value of the IQD is impossible and that the only solution is to see the IQD LOP....

You think that any rise in value whether it be small or big will cause inflation...

If the M2 is truly as big as it says it is, than a good portion of those figures must be held by foreign speculators.

Wouldn't a R/D (lop) basically give the reserves of the CBI a huge hit? Because everyone who holds IQD in hopes for a ROI is likely to go to the bank and exchange for USD post-LOP.

Articles seem to point to how the CBI prides how their reserves are going... And the longer they take to R/D or R/V more IQD is outside of their country.

[dinarck]

You seem that any rise in the value of the IQD is impossible and that the only solution is to see the IQD LOP....

You think that any rise in value whether it be small or big will cause inflation...

If the M2 is truly as big as it says it is, than a good portion of those figures must be held by foreign speculators.

Wouldn't a R/D (lop) basically give the reserves of the CBI a huge hit? Because everyone who holds IQD in hopes for a ROI is likely to go to the bank and exchange for USD post-LOP.

Articles seem to point to how the CBI prides how their reserves are going... And the longer they take to R/D or R/V more IQD is outside of their country.

Not at all Darin. The IQD could certainly rise in value but not by enough to make any of us rich in the current state that it is in.

[Darin]

Not at all Darin. The IQD could certainly rise in value but not by enough to make any of us rich in the current state that it is in.

If it steadily grew, and continuously grew, wouldn't that be a reasonable ROI that all of us could be proud of?

Some people believe the rise in value will take a considerable amount of time.. Some people will even be satisfied to make 3 times their money.

[makecents]

they dont have an international currency at this point they can do what ever they want with their currency .... they can use cans of dog food for their local currency and feed it to their dogs if they choose ..and when its all gone they can shoot the dogs and use their fur for currency .. the iraqi dinar has nothing to do with international anything .. if they do go international with their new currency then that currency would have to comply with international standards .. ..if they choose to delete half their dinars and double their value they dont have to ask permission .. they just do it ..

Sure, but as RVPleaseToday pointed out there are consequences to such actions. If they want to keep their agreements around their $125B debt with various parties, their standby agreements with the IMF, their business contracts, then they have to follow common financial standards. In the same breath you say a possible method here is to borrow $1T USD from international parties and at the same time say they can thumb their nose at such entities and do whatever they want. You can't have it both ways.

they just keep the books up to date so the international community knows what they are doing when they do go international with their new currency ...the 1166 rate was set up with the imf for monitoring purposes only

You just said the IMF has no control over Iraq, yet now say the IMF is imposing some rate on them? The IMF's program rate is not 1166 it is 1170 and the reason for the difference is that the program rate is just the rate used by the IMF for their calculations to factor our changes in the exchange rate and is not a restriction on Iraq, which is in fact using 1166 not 1170.

.. .. i think they should use barrels of oil for currency .. try carrying those around in your pocket .. money is no different than a coupon. the dinar is an iraqi coupon ..they only have to honor those dinars that are not in the cbi.. those at the cbi could all become one dinar worth 50 billion dollars if they want to .. that would be a huge rv .. but they could put a different value on those remaining dinars .... the other 10 trilion .. those dinars belong to iraq ... not the imf or the world bank ..

You are correct that dinars at the CBI (not in the accounts of member banks) do not count. But its not 10T outside of the CBI, its 10T in physical cash and another 65T electronically in banks and other financial institutions.

[dinarck]

If it steadily grew, and continuously grew, wouldn't that be a reasonable ROI that all of us could be proud of?

Some people believe the rise in value will take a considerable amount of time.. Some people will even be satisfied to make 3 times their money.

If it steadily grew say by 30% per year. How would that not create a massive run on dinar? Every speculator on earth would buy that currency that has been appreciating by 30% every year. Sure it creates a big demand for your currency but I always come back to the same question. Why doesn't every country do it?

[makecents]

they are not sold they are exchanged . if the dinar was rvd to 10 cents ,, i exchange them for dollars .. they go back to iraq .. iraq now has those dinars they exchanged ,, they lost not one penny they gained on the spread .. .. now if it was an international currency and it was globally accepted ,, they could at any time go to the forex ,, and buy any currency they want with it ,,,its accepted .. then it goes into that country you exchanged those dinars with ,, it goes into their foriegn reserves . or they exchange it for other currencys .. it goes around in so many circles you would get dizzy trying to follow it .. once everyone gives up it is what it is ,

A transaction like this is "zero sum". If you make money, then the CBI MUST lose money. If you make $116 for each dollars worth of IQD purchased (at 1166 / dollar) then the CBI must be losing $116 dollars on this same pair of exchanges.

[Darin]

If it steadily grew say by 30% per year. How would that not create a massive run on dinar? Every speculator on earth would buy that currency that has been appreciating by 30% every year. Sure it creates a big demand for your currency but I always come back to the same question. Why doesn't every country do it?

The CBI would monitor the demand accordingly and if demand is too much externally, they could simply just print or release more IQD to sustain the value.

It'd be easier for the CBI to suppress a rising value vs. trying to prevent a falling value..

[eddiemac]

Well of course Darin.....they are simply hiding the RV by threatening all this time to RD. Makes sense. Kinda. Only problem is there is no such thing as a RV like everyone has been led to believe in.

A while back I attempted to start a discussion with you about the inflation that a giant leap in currency value would no doubt cause. They thread was locked shortly after. Shocking huh? Anyway there is no better person on this site to address it than you so fire away.

And RVers remind me of the kids who throw a tantrum when they are told there is no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny. Is too...is too...mommy and daddy says so.

Sorry you don't like my tone but I could really care less. Fact is you don't know me or have half a clue as to my personality or self esteem. The thing you are really having trouble with is my message. You know I am right and are starting to feel silly. It's OK. I felt silly too when I woke up from the Dinar coma. If you really want to talk about self esteem then start with RVers like yourself who refuse to face reality and instead whine about the meanies who don't agree with them.

Hmm, I don't recall naming anyone beside Keep in my little post, I guess you felt you fit the bill as someone who could have a rational debate but chooses to do so with very little tact.Ok, , Ok, that was uncalled for. I will have to say in fairness to you, perhaps the rebuttal that has been shot back to you may not have been of the mature nature thus "When in Rome" I will therefore apologize BECAUSE I really have not seen what responses you have received in the past, which in turn would make my post bias and no better than those of the criteria in which I described. I guess I would just like to see adults be rational and not belittle others when a disagreement arises," Opinions, everyone has one" And for the record there was no whining on my part I could care less about who agrees with me, I will form my own opinions, right or wrong which ever the out come you learn something in the end and thats the best part of being human. Take care Dinarck.

[keepmwlknfny]

KEEP

I understand your points. The dinar might lose value if deprogrammed - but would depend on circumstances that might make dinar more attractive, new laws, etc.

Secondly, they do have a lot to lose making a mistake. That's why I think that logically it has taken 10 years to set the stage for a revalue/ RI because of the necessary ducks lined up in a row. Setting the stage for an RD is much easier - print new bills, educate a little, and dump the zeros.

Hyperinflation.................over and over again. Does anybody truly know what happened when the Bremer dinar replace Saddam's notes? Were they traded one to one?

Why would the CPI under Bremer replace the trillions with more inflated trillions?

This is crucial to this deal, as many trillions in circulation means RD more than likely.

Hame,

Why would a RD ending in the dinar being on par with the USD, be any easier then a RV ending in the dinar being on par with the USD when both ends up with the dinar being subject to fluctuations depending on Iraqs oil production and the demand for oil, both not having a programmed rate anymore?

In either scenerio, their ducks need to be lined up in order for the new rate to be stable dont you think?

According to the literature available, the old dinar was replaced at a one to one rate with the dinar we have now. I think the main reason for replacing it was to remove saddam from the bills as the start of a new era for Iraq, and to try and gain some confidence in the new dinar. If you were a citizen of Iraq and went through all the dramabeing under the rule of saddam and he was just ousted, would you rather continue the use of "saddams currency" or start out fresh?

[dinarck]

The CBI would monitor the demand accordingly and if demand is too much externally, they could simply just print or release more IQD to sustain the value.

It'd be easier for the CBI to suppress a rising value vs. trying to prevent a falling value..

So they would print up trillions more dinar and at the same time keep raising the value?

[Darin]

So they would print up trillions more dinar and at the same time keep raising the value?

Not at the same time... If the foreign speculation is pushing the value too high that it is causing problems, they could simply inflate the money supply to counter-act it.

If the raising value is at a sustainable pace, they could continue raising the value... Basically, the bank would only intervene when & if necessary and one option is to inflate the supply of cash.

Maybe they have to release dinars to counter a danger demand from speculators..

See, if the demand is higher than the normal market value, it puts a lot of leverage in the CBI's court, but when the market value is below the CBI rate it is not so easy.

So yes, they could print more dinar or release more dinar while the value continues to rise if necessary to suppress external speculation.

[dinarck]

Not at the same time... If the foreign speculation is pushing the value too high that it is causing problems, they could simply inflate the money supply to counter-act it.

If the raising value is at a sustainable pace, they could continue raising the value... Basically, the bank would only intervene when & if necessary and one option is to inflate the supply of cash.

Maybe they have to release dinars to counter a danger demand from speculators..

See, if the demand is higher than the normal market value, it puts a lot of leverage in the CBI's court, but when the market value is below the CBI rate it is not so easy.

So yes, they could print more dinar or release more dinar while the value continues to rise if necessary to suppress external speculation.

So it won't be long before they have a M2 of 150 trillion each worth say around 500 by then? Doubtful.

[dontlop]

Sure, but as RVPleaseToday pointed out there are consequences to such actions. If they want to keep their agreements around their $125B debt with various parties, their standby agreements with the IMF, their business contracts, then they have to follow common financial standards. In the same breath you say a possible method here is to borrow $1T USD from international parties and at the same time say they can thumb their nose at such entities and do whatever they want. You can't have it both ways.

You just said the IMF has no control over Iraq, yet now say the IMF is imposing some rate on them? The IMF's program rate is not 1166 it is 1170 and the reason for the difference is that the program rate is just the rate used by the IMF for their calculations to factor our changes in the exchange rate and is not a restriction on Iraq, which is in fact using 1166 not 1170.

You are correct that dinars at the CBI (not in the accounts of member banks) do not count. But its not 10T outside of the CBI, its 10T in physical cash and another 65T electronically in banks and other financial institutions.

id like you .. to provide any link stating iraq has 128 bilion in debt . that is not true ..

i never said any thing is imopsed on iraq by the imf .. show me that ..

i said they have a stand by agreement ,, iraq is re establishing itself .. they want to be monitored for proof they are doing things correctly to improve their credit status globally .. the 1166 rate is an agreement set up by both the cbi and the imf for monitoring purposes only .. who care .. that has nothing to do with iraqs wealth ..

id like you .. to show me where any thing any where shows 10 trilion in cash anywhere out side the cbi

is that your rebuttle ,,? it is very lame .. go talk to dinark .. he will agree with you ,, on anything bad about iraq . he says ,, they nave NO manufacturing ,, and NO infrastructure .. .. HE THINKS IRAQ IS A PILE OF RUBBLE .. HES LIKE YOU ,, YOU SHOULD CHAT BACK AND FOURTH WITH HIM ,, I SEE YOU TWO DONT SPEAK TO EACH OTHER ,, .. are you the same person or something ,, you would think two people with the same outlook would be chatting back and fourth exchanging ideas . but i see nothing but an occasional high fiving .. like your just pretending to be two different people .. how many different screen names does dinark have right now 5 ?.. or is it just 4 right now ..

[Darin]

So it won't be long before they have a M2 of 150 trillion each worth say around 500 by then? Doubtful.

No.... You have to imagine the money supply like a balloon. It'll increase & decrease to suit the needs of the economy. To help raise the value, money supply reduction will be necessary.

Increasing the demand in itself will help allow reducing the overall money supply. As demand rises, the CBI could reduce the amount in circulation to help strengthen the value. If speculation is too high because the value is continuously on the rise, the CBI can intervene necessarily. So, no they will not have a M2 of 150T at 500, as they would have reduced their M2 overall... But if speculation pushes demand too high that it causes problems, the CBI will intervene using the tools at their disposal to suppress the speculation (one way could be to release more IQD into circulation).

The obvious way to increase the value is to reduce the amount of supply. This could simply be something that is already in the works and we may not be as privy to the exact details of that information. Time will tell, and this can very well & easily be profitable in the long-term.

[makecents]

id like you .. to provide any link stating iraq has 128 bilion in debt . that is not true ..

The IMF debt by country doc for 2011. Note Iraq's debt is show as 86% of GDP. Their 2011 GDP was 143B so times .86 is 123B (I rounded a bit).

Also from cbi.iq

"Total government debt is estimated to be $92.3 billion in 2010 and is comprised of the following components:

- External debt ($87.7 billion, of which $45 billion can be subject to debt reduction by non-Paris Club official creditors, comparable to the Paris Club agreement)

- Domestic debt ($4.6 billion)

Note: Iraq's GDP in 2010 is estimated to be $82.2 billion.

So that was $92B in 2010. Not much of a stretch to have a 30% in two years increase given Iraq's needs.

i never said any thing is imopsed on iraq by the imf .. show me that ..

Perhaps I misunderstood. You said ".the 1166 rate was set up with the imf for monitoring purposes only". I took that to mean you think the IMF has specified what Iraq's exchange rate should be. As I said the program rate is actually still 1170 and has nothing to do with the rate Iraq is using, which can go up or down as they see fit.

i said they have a stand by agreement ,, iraq is re establishing itself .. they want to be monitored for proof they are doing things correctly to improve their credit status globally .. the 1166 rate is an agreement set up by both the cbi and the imf for monitoring purposes only .. who care .. that has nothing to do with iraqs wealth ..

But you keep saying this is NOT representative of the real exchange rate, so what purpose would it have then to use that for all calculations relative to Iraq's finances if it was not generally representative of the real thing?

id like you .. to show me where any thing any where shows 10 trilion in cash anywhere out side the cbi

Sorry, this was just from memory. Its actually worse. Looking at the 2011 doc from the CBI, M0 is 28T, M1 is 62T, and M2 is 72T (pages 42 and 43). Now, all those are certainly going to be higher.

is that your rebuttle ,,? it is very lame ..

Ok, so counter it. All you do is hurl some accusations. Edited January 16, 2013 by makecents

[dinarck]

.. how many different screen names does dinark have right now 5 ?.. or is it just 4 right now ..

Trust me. If I had multiple screen names I would be punking you out up in the mains too.

[dinarck]

No.... You have to imagine the money supply like a balloon. It'll increase & decrease to suit the needs of the economy. To help raise the value, money supply reduction will be necessary.

Increasing the demand in itself will help allow reducing the overall money supply. As demand rises, the CBI could reduce the amount in circulation to help strengthen the value. If speculation is too high because the value is continuously on the rise, the CBI can intervene necessarily. So, no they will not have a M2 of 150T at 500, as they would have reduced their M2 overall... But if speculation pushes demand too high that it causes problems, the CBI will intervene using the tools at their disposal to suppress the speculation (one way could be to release more IQD into circulation).

The obvious way to increase the value is to reduce the amount of supply. This could simply be something that is already in the works and we may not be as privy to the exact details of that information. Time will tell, and this can very well & easily be profitable in the long-term.

So CBI could sell bonds or use other methods to reduce the money supply right? Just like the name of this thread......Whats the hold up? The fact is the M2 is only increasing year by year.

Lets look again at curreny appreciation world wide throughout history. At what rate can a currency value rise without causing inflation? That rate isnt very much.

Also Iraq is a developing and growing economy. The more wealth they gain the less their currency will be worth. This is standard economics 101. The more people with money the higher the demand for goods and services which equals higher prices for those goods and services which equals a lower currency value. This is why growing economies almost always undergo a devaluing effect of their currency.

[dontlop]

ya right ,,they cant lop either .. they cant because of inflation .. ..

you change your entire structure of buying and salarys .. the same way whether you lop or rv .. no inflation.. thats for dummies .... you dont charge 90 thousand dollars for a barrel of oil ..like dinark says you will .

iraq doesnt have a fiat currency right now .. they have a currency backed by reserves ..

what iraq is doing as we speak is creating a fiat currency system for their country . ..

all those trillions of dinars in the cbi .. will be in the incinerator .. and what will be left is the reserves .. they will use digital banking and finance a rv for outstandiing dinars as well as financing the new dinars ,, ,, we .. everyone but dinark are going to be rich ,, dinark is going to be laying down in a grocery store isle .. crying and kicking his feet .. like a 2 year old .. you cant do that !!!!!.. you cant do that!!!! .. wah!///wah!!!!

and please no questions from you lopsters .. if you cant figure it out ask each other ,, try it .. talk to each other .. your smart .. you got alot in common.. i want to see you lopsters .. chatting away .. in agreement on something,, all you do is argue with people .. trying to get info .. like somene is going to come along and feed you intel if you are on the attack .. i dont think anyone actually wants to help you .. they just take swipes at you when their bored ...freekin lopsters . ill be back next month to punch around some more .. in the mean time .. you lopsters should talk to each other ... or is it too hard to have a conversation with yourself .. fake high fives . dont count .. anyone can do that .. .anyone can go sign up a new name .. and have two log on names or three ,, and open up two or three applications of dv .. and have all three names in a room at the same time ,,on one computer at their home .. pretending like your three different people ,, and gang up on individuals.. heck this lopster link sat for 3 weeks .. no lopsters . then all the sudden all three of you are back .. did you all go on vacation together .. ?/ you would think at least one of you would of been here , but nope its either all three of you lopsters or none ..are in this room ..or on stand bye at the tip of your fingers ready to log on .. your characters for bullying individuals ,, because on your own ,, you cannot handle it .. you must pretend like you have a small army of lopsters ready to attack any time .. ..

i would say if you kept the same currency and your fiat system was already in place ,, you really cannot change it after that .. your stuck with what you got ..but right now iraq .. has nothing to worry about with this bremmer dinar .. its disposable

the united states is trying to stop our money growth .. . once it gets to a certain point .. it cannot be stopped ... iraq may just have the most modern money system ever developed when they impliment it .. maybe something sustainable ...

oh wait

im sorry

what

dinark said no

no you they cannot too..

yes they do not

silly lopsters .. they all go to bed at the same time . they get up together .. they battle together . only thing they dont do is talk to each other

[Darin]

So CBI could sell bonds or use other methods to reduce the money supply right? Just like the name of this thread......Whats the hold up? The fact is the M2 is only increasing year by year.

Lets look again at curreny appreciation world wide throughout history. At what rate can a currency value rise without causing inflation? That rate isnt very much.

Also Iraq is a developing and growing economy. The more wealth they gain the less their currency will be worth. This is standard economics 101. The more people with money the higher the demand for goods and services which equals higher prices for those goods and services which equals a lower currency value. This is why growing economies almost always undergo a devaluing effect of their currency.

Pros & Cons help when the rate fluctuates. That is just how it works.

For example, when the dollar gains value, we see cheaper prices when we fill up our vehicles and cheaper prices of imported goods. With that mentality, a strong valued currency is a good thing. When the value drops against foreign currencies, foreign goods become more expensive, i.e., higher gas bills, higher food bills, and imported goods cost more.

So if the IQD rises, imported items become more appealing. Just because the average citizen has the ability to purchase items that are imported, doesn't mean that a supply/demand factor will play into it and once things are gone the prices themselves simply shoot up.. No, they'll simply supply more goods (imports) to fulfill the need desired by those with higher buying powers.

Which sort of brings me back to where I spoke about the Private sector... It can be a catch-22 situation, a private sector may need a solid amount of imports to thrive, yet the need/desire for imports may need a private sector to create the demand. Chicken & the egg argument..... Which needs to come first?

If the country itself becomes too dependent on imports, a private sector may never grow because the demand is met by foreign supply (meaning no internal creation). Why farm if your importing food? Why create your own goods if your simply importing them? However, at the same time, a business may need to import the necessities to get up and running... (I.e., a restaurant may need to order ovens, silverware, computers, registers, etc or a retail store may need to import goods to put on the shelves..)

Why so much talk about imports?They play a vital role on exchange rates... Banks, countries, and businesses don't just exchange currencies for the fun of it, they do so to meet needs, and the exchange rates help allow exchanges.

[dontlop]

https://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+fig&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GL72UP_vAoer0AHPwYFw&ved=0CHIQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=617